The Tale of Two Cities... and a Stadium... how to make this work?
by thebaddancingraysfan on Feb 2, 2010 2:03 PM EST
Email
PrintAs a 10 year resident of Tampa, I would like to say that I want to keep the Rays in the St. Petersburg area. I for one have no problems nor inclinations with the 30 minute drive from my home to the Trop. However, I seem to be the minority in comparison to my fellow Tampanians.
I love the city of St. Petersburg, I highly enjoy stopping by the Pier, walking down Central, or going to the defunct Baywalk before a game. St. Petersburg should be represented in our Bay area with a first class product like the Rays. For too many years St. Petersburg has been the bargaining chip for MLB franchises or the brief stops for the Tampa Bay Storm and Lightning. So, what would need to be done to keep the Rays in St. Pete?
I propose better transportation between Tampa and St. Pete as well as the surrounding counties. Easier said then done, right? I know, I know this is long winded argument that has gone on longer then the Stadium debates. On the wings of the light rail construction plans I feel that it would be a great time to talk about better public transportation in our Bayarea. Yes, I know we have our buses and the Trolley in Ybor City, but that is not nearly enough for the ever growing population in the Tampa Bay area. If the Tampa Bay area had more reliable transportation such as buses, cable cars, and ferries this could almost void out any argument with a stadium being placed in St. Pete.
The cost of new stadium would pale in comparison to implementation of a adding such wide transportation system. On the surface, yes. How would one use the new public transportation option besides on game days? Think about it Pinellas and Sarasota county, it's Friday night and you want to go to Ybor City to watch the road game where the Rays take on the Rangers, and then go to a club. What do you do? You drive for an hour, or less, park your car and then have to worry about getting back over the bridge at 2 a.m.. Now, if you had a reliable transportation set-up such a a ferry port that could take you to Westshore or to the mouth of the Hillsborough River where from there you get on a five-ten minute trolley ride through the beautiful down town Tampa would that not sound more appealing? For Tampanians, would it not be easier to park at a Ferry station take a ferry to Downtown St. Pete where we pick up a reliable bus or trolley and go to a Rays game? Is that not better then battling through rush hour traffic on the Gandy or Howard Franklin?
What do we have now? Buses. Have you ever missed a public transportation bus? How long do you have to wait? 30-40 minutes? If we had buses that were reliable, as in every 15 minutes, would that not be better? As of right now there are no ferries, nor trolley, nor really anything that unites the surrounding counties, so of course you are going to hear a tired argument over travel time to ball games.
I turn this discussion to the you Draysbay.com. What do you think? Would a better public transportaion help keep a stadium in St. Pete? Do you care?
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
22 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This area doesn't have the population density necessary to support beefing up the bus infrastructure. It would help yes, but it would be an unrecoverable cost.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
I don't think buses are the answer
You are right the area just isn’t dense enough and traffic isn’t hellish enough that people would use it over driving.
I can think of plenty of places a light rail could go(airport, mall, Channelside, Ybor, USF, Ray Jay, Hyde Park, SoHo), but its hard to picture the residential stops that would make it easy for people to use it everyday instead of driving.
I still think it’s completely worthwhile having a light rail connecting those places and would really love one that connects it to St. Pete’s downtown/waterfront area.
Bring Your Z-Game!
I would love for the light rail to connect at the aforementioned...
I don’t foresee it anytime soon. I like the communication here though. So no on buses what about a ferry system? From Channelside to the Pier or from Westshore, over near where Jimmy Mack’s was to the Pier?
Blah!
by thebaddancingraysfan on Feb 2, 2010 5:03 PM EST reply actions
Maybe
I think light rail is a far better option though. At least in my opinion.
Speaking of ferrys. That Key West Ferry should leave out of St. Pete or Tampa. Seems like they would get a lot more business.
Bring Your Z-Game!
I agree,
The ferry ride from Ft. Myers is what? 3-4 hours? What would lt from Tampa-St. Pete? 6 hours? you would only kill what? 2 hours compared to driving.
I think in Tampa, mostly, we don’t see public transit as a viable option. Which is a darn shame.
Blah!
by thebaddancingraysfan on Feb 2, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think you and POW are right on track with your fanposts
I think a part of the Rays’ attendance issues has to do with their stadium location (more so than the appearance of the stadium or anything like that) and the lack of quick ways of accessing it, especially from Tampa. I don’t know much about public transport in the city and what would be feasible, but it seems like something needs to be added. As it is, from what I can tell from the maps, if you wanted to take the bus from downtown Tampa to the Trop, you’d need to transfer between buses at least 3 different times. That just doesn’t make sense.
Also, I mentioned this article in the other thread, but I think it shows that the Rays are aware of the issue and are using it as one of their talking points about getting a new stadium.
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
Viable public transportation is hard
There is a lot of surface area to cover in the Tampa Bay area to make things useful, and one big obstacle to get around….water. I think the ferry idea is good, if it can be coupled with some sort of trolley/light rail system. And anything we think about not only has to help with getting to stadiums, but also where people work.
Buses as the main transportation aren’t the answer. Not only does Tampa Bay have a lousy system, but buses still have to sit in traffic, and they aren’t really much fun.
Where do you need to connect with public transportation? I’d say…
Clearwater (then could have trolley to Clearwater Beach…and trolley can really be a bus)
St Pete “Gateway” area (jobs)
Downtown St Pete (jobs & fun)
Trop (this discussion, but could easily be trolley/bus from downtown)
St Pete Beach (just run that same trolley/fancy bus the rest of the way down Central)
So really, to connect the above, I need one rail line that runs from Clearwater to downtown St Pete, and then some attractive, and very short, spur options.
On the Tampa side:
Ybor City (existing trolley works)
Downtown (jobs & St Pete Times Forum & other fun)
WestShore/Airport/RayJay
and then I’d probably go a little bit up Veterans to help with northern commuters. Not too far with my rail, ‘cause it’s expensive. WestChase area, probably stop there.
Allow the possibility of extending rail east of downtown, and north of WestChase.
Now, connecting these with a couple ferries is great – when the weather is good. But traffic is the worst when the weather is bad, and a whole buncha people aren’t going to want to get off a train, and onto a ferry when it’s pouring rain. At least I think that might be an issue. But, it’s probably a better, more cost-effective, and more fun way to start connecting things than by building some new bridges that support light rail between the cities. Have stops/routes for St Pete (Pier or that port south of there), Gateway area, WestShore area, and downtown Tampa – and modify how often you do all those runs based upon events and work commutes.
Sure would make getting around the 2 cities more pleasant. For game days, ferries could be fun.
And remember for areas that aren’t covered, both Tampa & St Pete do have fairly decent taxi service.
Look, I spent every summer in St. Pete as a kid and I love the area.
But it can’t support a ballclub on its own. It needs Tampa $$$. All of the young families (ie, your core baseball attending demographic) are moving north of Tampa. That makes it about a 45 min to an hour one way jaunt for a game. If we play the BOS, NY, or CHI teams, then its possibly worse. There’s a reason why Wesley Chapel was at least put on the table (and then tabled) for possible new stadium sites.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
This is along my point, that area is booming with good, middle class folks. The money is there, if business isn't going to jump on the wagon first
A ferry sounds like a good idea and I think there’s ways to make it work, but I just wanted to post this LINK of the rise and fall of the fast ferry that connected Rochester and Toronto.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Feb 3, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
These are both good points, but my point has always been that it works both ways.
Clearly, the team can’t survive on it’s own in St. Pete. But the team can no more do that then it can in an area in Tampa inaccessible to people St. Pete. The population difference between the two cities is about 90,000; and between the two counties is a little less then 200,000. If you move the team into downtown Tampa, you’d probably see attendance improve by about 15%, but it doesn’t fix the problem because you’re still isolating the team from over 40% of the area’s population base.
Moving the team deep into Tampa only makes sense if the interest in St. Petersburg is so bad that they can draw more people by targeting only the Tampa market then by placing it in a viable area for both locales such as the Gateway.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
brings up a point...
How far is too far? 45-60 minutes doesn’t seem too far to me to go to a half dozen or so games/year, but I sure wouldn’t hold season tix with that commute.
Then again, I lived in downtown St Pete, and had a half-season package with the Lightning and those 20 games/year didn’t bother me.
I think the team is probably eyeing season-ticket holders. 45-60 minutes isn't difficult for someone who goes to half-a-dozen games a year, but it's a significantly larger obstacle for someone going to 40+ games.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
not too far
An hour, door to door, really isn’t that bad I don’t think. I’ve lived in Philly, NY, Balt and DC, (now living in Ft Myers) and you can hardly ever get to a game by car in less than an hour from the burbs, and unless you live right on a train stop the public transit pushes close to an hour as well. People accept it because it’s always congested anywhere you go.
I think part of the issue is that down here in FLA many folks chose to leave that environment and don’t want to drive an hour or more to get to a game. It’s just too much of a hassle.
I think unless/until the Rays become a must-see event, which will take many seasons of winning baseball at least, we will see them hover in the bottom 3rd of attendance. Lots of people on here have talked about how the team is young, it takes time, years to really build a reliable fanbase. You would like to see them draw better, but new stadium, public transit, all those seem like bandaids that will give only a temporary boost.
Just my opinion.
Light rail is an option, but I think they need to build a new stadium in Tampa
Extending high-speed rail across the bay would cost twice as much as a tricked-out new stadium. And connecting the two with light rail would negate the speed benefits of high speed rail in the first place. In that case, I’d rather travel by car.
A new stadium in Tampa would have the greatest cost-benefit ratio of any other plan. Channelside is 20 minutes closer by car to Orlando, and I-4/I-75 is 30 minutes closer. Both will also readily be accessible to the high-speed rail system. Hell, I’d get season tickets if high-speed rail becomes a reality and the Rays were accessible from it. Even without high-speed rail, reducing the drive from 90-120 minutes to 60-90 minutes would be worthwile to attract the Orlando fan base.
Me babe, steppin' out
Into the night, into the light
What Orlando fanbase?
They couldn’t even fill a 10,000 person spring training facility. Why do people keep bringing up Orlando?
That was poorly marketed and nothing more than a good concept, implemented poorly
There’s over a million people in Orange County, even getting a couple of thousand to become seatholders would be a huge deal. Not to mention that big business could be enticed to buy boxes if it means that visiting dignataries and clients are only an hour away from a hell of a time.
Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Feb 4, 2010 10:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This.
All day and twice on Sunday.
Me babe, steppin' out
Into the night, into the light
by Orlando Rays on Feb 12, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
You're making it too complicated
Leave public mass transportation to the urban planners or whoever studies those things. The Rays could help themselves by running a ferry from somewhere in Tampa (perhaps several locations) to the St. Pete waterfront. They already run buses from down there to the Trop during prime games. Charge $5/person, maybe sell some food and beer on the way to the game, market the beautiful views and tailgate atmosphere. The Yankees do this from Jersey.
Rosy red and electric blue, I brought you a paddle for your paper canoe.
Thanks I worked really hard on that idea, I still think it's feasible if those clowns in congress would get their shit together
What a bunch of clowns.
Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Feb 12, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Please read our Community Guidelines.
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
DRB Suggestion Box
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
