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My projected 2011 Rays Lineup

 

I was thinking the other day about how the Rays will probally end up with CC and Los leaving  next year and Jason Bartlett becoming expensive or regressing. We can hope we are able to retain at least one of them but if we do not  there will be a whole new look to the Rays. Looking at it now it's possible this could be the lineup in late 2010 if we drop out of the race or are offered a boatload in prospects for either. Trades can often be good for teams who need to reload. I think the Pirates and Orioles are making steps in that direction trading for and developing players similiar to how the Rays have done the past 10 years. My family has always said we were the minor league farm team for all of MLB unable to keep developed talent reminiscent to the Montreal Expos teams. But I think we are getting smarter about targeting young talent and signing it long term to team friendly backloaded contracts. This is My projected 2011 Rays lineup which should fit into that $50 million mark everyone is anticipating on next year.

I Present to you The Perfect Rays Lineup on the Cheap

1. CF B.J. Upton
2. 1B Leslie Anderson
3. 3b Evan Longoria
4. 2b Ben Zobrist
5. RF Matt Joyce
6. DH Willy Aybar
7. SS Sean Rodriguez
8. C Kelly Shoppach
9. LF Desmond Jennings

 

The best thing about this lineup is no one is making Millions of dollars and they all represent a significant value and return that is unprecedented. All young controllable players who have shown flashes of brilliance in the minors or have already established themselves as All Stars. This also allows the team to focus their free agent dollars on the most important part of a winning team. Pitching. And I am not talking Starting pitching where this team is already LOADED. I am talking bullpen depth and the ability to sign established Closers and not jeopardize payroll.

We could even ship Willy Aybar off in a trade and sign any number of DH who will be on the market next year. Power guys who have lost their defense are basically had for a few million. I think the Front Office has set us up to be winners for the next 7 years. When it comes to young talent that is MLB ready or close to ready the Rays cannot be matched. The Durham Bulls are proof of that alone. The Rays should contend with the Yankees and Red Sox no matter how much the continue to spend.

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Id still like to see Sweeny work his way into the picture for 1B/DH

Not to mention I dont think Rodriguez would stick at SS position every day at the major league level, even though he did come up as a shortstop. If Bartlett is moved, im willing to bet Brignac would take over.

by BossmanJunior333 on Mar 13, 2010 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

Bartlett will most likely be here but if he's not, it will be Brignac

S-Rod is a super sub not a everyday SS and Beckham will be in AA in 2011

Also I think Aybar at 1B/DH, Sweeney as 1B/DH and I think DJ will fully take over for CC including hitting 2nd

Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!

by joeybw on Mar 13, 2010 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

disagree about DJ

I think he will bat lead off for the Rays, even with Bartlett on the team. Jennings is more of your prototypical leadoff hitter, great speed and gets on base. Every top prospect list deems him as being one of the best lead off hitter prospects they have seen in a while. No reason to put him anywhere else. The number 2 hitter spot is much better suited for Bartlett, as it requires a lot more strategy like moving the runner over, hit and run, and laying down a bunt.

It would be amazing if Sweeney and Anderson both did well this year and were ready to step into an everyday role in 2011. That might be a stretch to think Sweeney could take over in 2011 depending how fast they move him through the system and whether he can stay healthy. A more likely solution could be signing a stopgap DH until Sweeney is ready to take over.

I also dont think they will give Aybar an everyday job personally, if he is still here at all. I think Rodriguez will get that shot before Aybar does.

by BossmanJunior333 on Mar 13, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Your family doesn't know what they're talking about.

Aubrey Huff (and Josh Hamilton if you really want to reach) are the only Rays-grown players “starring” on other teams. The Rays weren’t the farm system for other teams, they were the junkyard.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 13, 2010 2:42 PM EST reply actions  

I will go even further, R.J.

When Huff was traded he had slipped considerably from the time he was a fine player with the Rays. No doubt that trade was partially due to budget considerations, but it was much more a matter of policy to ship out aging players for young talent; it was not a salary dump in the real meaning of that phrase nor in the implication of calling the Rays a farm system for other teams. (And to boot, the Rays received back Zobrist and in essence Shoppach for Huff.)

Actually, I do not think there is one instance in the entire history of the Rays that a legitimate star or even a significant regular was dealt for financial reasons. Not one case, unless you want to consider McGriff such a case I suppose. Even then, he was also at the tail end of his career although still productive. Now part of the reason is that the Rays never developed such a player until recently, but the point is that the notion that the Rays served as a farm system for other teams is patently wrong. As you say, we were the junkyard, not the farm.

In a sense that may now change as there are legitimate home-grown stars some of whom may be dealt or allowed to leave to keep the budget in bounds. But this FO has calculated that and appears to have provided a stream of talent to fill in as players leave while acquiring new talent in the bargain. We cannot be sure it will work, but we can be confident that there is a serious effort to provide for that possible exodus.

by bobr on Mar 13, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd note that McGriff was only acquired by Tampa Bay after Atlanta decided they would rather have Andres Galarraga.

Which, again, plays into the junkyard theme. As does the acquisition of Julio Lugo. As you alluded to, we couldn’t have been the minors farm system, for years we couldn’t develop young talent that the rest of the league desired. Chad Gaudin and Matt Diaz notwithstanding.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 13, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell that to!

Tell that to

Scott Kazmir
Aubrey Huff
Randy Winn
Jorge Cantu
Jonny Gomes
Jose Guillen
Toby Hall
Akinori Iwamura
Edwin Jackson
Delmon Young

And next year so will Carl Crawford , Carlos Pena and in 2011 Jason Bartlett , and in the future BJ Upton and many more!

You know why those guys are all gone or going? They cannot afford them. I know we recieved good talent for them and some of them have declined but we never hold onto our stars past 30.

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Mar 14, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's quite the who's who of mediocrity, Kazmir love aside, there is no way that you cannot like that trade.

Your last statement seems to agree with both Bob and R.J. above.

"It's good to have a little cushion. But it's not going to be easy."

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Mar 14, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay?

Randy Winn was a Marlins farmhand before we snagged him; Gomes and Cantu are marginal talents; Guillen, Jackson, and Iwamura are not homegrown talents, and Delmon Young sucks.

Here’s a tip: Most of those players aren’t gone because they can’t afford them, but because they suck.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 14, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

In every one of those cases

the trade was made either because the player was not producing and we had a better alternative on hand or because, as I pointed out above, the Rays planned for moving older talent in order to build system depth while replacing them with at least equivalent talent. That is not acting as a farm team for other clubs but implementing a solid plan to contend now and in the near future.

Of course Iwamura was moved to save money. But not only did the Rays acquire an interesting talent immediately; in the end they got a more expensive piece for right now in Soriano. And with Zobrist on hand as well as Sean Rodriguez and Brignac, why keep Iwamura? Suppose Montero proves to be an all-star catcher. Should the Yankees keep Posada just to prove they will spend money?

Yes, Kazmir was moved for budget reasons, but aside from the return of 3 legitimate prospects, one probably ready to contribute right now, Kazmir had declined precipitously, and Wade Davis was ready to step in. That is not acting as a farm club; that is planning intelligently to maximize resources.

Huff too had declined at the time of the trade, and trading him was exactly right at the time because the team was just beginning its plan to build a contender of which he could not be a part. It’s not as if the Rays traded him just as he was about to blossom; that would be acting as a farm club. They did it as he was in decline, following Branch Rickey’s adage that it is better to trade a year early than a year late. (Actually, LaMar should have traded him a year or so earlier.)

I could review every single player you list and point out that the Rays were not simply dumping salary or acting as a farm for other teams but implementing a solid plan for contending. And note too that when the club was ready to contend, the Rays expanded the budget to pick up the extra pieces they needed. Compared to the Yankees or Red Sox it may not seem like much, but they spent on Bradford, on Wheeler (extending him) and this year on Soriano. Is Atlanta a farm club for TB? Was Baltimore? Further, note that the Rays outbid both SD and Cleveland to acquire Iwamura in the first place.

You might also remember that in trading Talbot for Shoppach the Rays added salary. Is Cleveland a Rays farm team? Of course it does not help a case when Toby Hall’s name is mentioned. And incidentally, when the Rays released Guillen he was being paid under $1 million and signed for $500,000 the next year. The Rays released him after a season in which he received 145 PAs and had 6 walks, 3 home runs and an OPS+ of 85. I doubt that budget was the primary reason to let him go, even with LaMar in charge.

I agree that Crawford and Pena are almost certainly gone in 2011 and that others will follow. I assume you can see how the Rays are trying to provide for that. My point stands. There has yet to be one instance-not one instance-in which the Rays let go of a star player for budget reasons, and while I think that will now begin happening, it is clear that the Rays are providing for that in an intelligent way. There is no way to interpret what they are doing negatively which is what one does by referring to them as a farm team for other clubs.

by bobr on Mar 14, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Boom

Here’s WAR totals for the guys that have played full seasons somewhere else with number of seasons in ().
Huff 4.1 (3)
Winn 21.1 (7)
Cantu 4.5 (2)
Gomes 0.8 (1)
Guillen 9.7 (8)
Hall -0.5 (2)
Jackson 3.5 (1)
Young -1.6 (2)

For a grand total of 41.6 WAR over 26 seasons. Outside of Winn (whom was traded by the previous front office for a manager, dumb, and Jackson who was not seen as irreplaceable, the rest of that list are a bunch of sub-average players.

"It's good to have a little cushion. But it's not going to be easy."

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Mar 14, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

And

while I cannot find his 2003 salary with the Rays, Piniella was earning $4.4 million in 2005 which was more than Winn was making in Seattle. My guess is that the savings on dealing Winn (who was making $975,000 when traded but got $3.3 million the following year) was somewhat if not completely offset by signing Piniella. It was a stupid move in any case, but not a case of being a farm club for Seattle.

In fact, while true that the Rays had the lowest or one of the lowest salary structures for many years, it was not due to dealing away players on the verge of stardom. Contrary to that distorted view, the Rays actually acquired a coterie of high profile players one year, the much detested “hit show”.

by bobr on Mar 14, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a real stretch to say that

Kazmir, Guillen or Jackson was from the Rays’ system. None of them ever saw much time, if any, in the Rays’ minor league system.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Mar 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like has been mentioned...

DJ = Lead off … move BJ down 2/3
Brignac > S-Rod at SS, defensively I don’t think it’s that close

and I really really hope thats not the 1B and DH spot looks like next year

by hybrid on Mar 13, 2010 4:00 PM EST reply actions  

hmmm

LF DEEZY
CF BOSSMAN
1B Leslie
3B Long One
2B Zo
DH Srod
SS Brig
C Shop
RF Joyce

by daveh33 on Mar 13, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

Why on earth would Joyce bat 9th?

For one thing, he has legit pop. And another, #9 hitter is usually your 2nd leadoff hitter… so briggy or Srod would be more suited for that
I’d say…
1. Dez
2. Beej
3. Longo
4. Zorilla
5. Leslie
6. Free agent
7. Joyce
8. Shop
9. Brig/seany

by TheFlyingJay on Mar 13, 2010 7:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

hmm

CF- Deezy
RF- Upton
LF- Zobrist
3B- Longoria
RF- Rodriguez (although he may be a little worse than Joyce, his flexibility keeps him in the field)
1B- Anderson
DH- Joyce
SS- Brignac
C- Someone outside the organization I hope or Navi if he can bounce back this year.

I’ll go a little further with the rotation
1. Shields
2. Davis
3. Price
4. Hellickson
5. Niemann/Torres/McGee (ST battle)

as much as I like him I think that Garza will get moved.

by Dbullsfan on Mar 13, 2010 7:06 PM EST reply actions  

a little different

CF Jennings
RF Upton
LF Zobrist
3B Longo
DH Joyce
1B Anderson
2B Rodriguez
C Shoppach
SS Brignac

Problem with many of the lineups posted, Rays seem to have about 5 guys who should probably hit 6th in the lineup like: Joyce (at best will have a platoon season under his belt); Anderson (rookie?); Zobrist (expecting some regression from the 09 OBP); BJ (which guy shows up); Rodriguez (need to see how well power holds up at this level)

pitching is like real estate . . . .location, location, location

by changeup31 on Mar 14, 2010 9:52 PM EDT reply actions  

This looks about right to me

Except that Zobrist at 2B, Joyce in LF and Rodriguez at DH would make a lot more sense to me.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Mar 15, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

OBP at the top, power in the middle, weakest of the bunch in the bottom 3

here goes

LF Desmond Jennings (B.J doesn’t care if it’s SS, 2B or CF but he wants to be in the middle of the field)
SS Jason Bartlett
3B Evan Longoria
2B Ben Zobrist
CF B.J Upton
RF Matt Joyce
DH Sean Rodriguez (before anyone says his D is too good for DH, this is where he fits in)
1B Leslie Anderson
C Kelly Shoppach

Biggest question I have for 2011 is for who loses their job for Hellickson especially if Niemann is great again this season.

Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!

by joeybw on Mar 15, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Ignore who he's replacing.

People are just being far too optimistic about him in general.

Plus, this is a clustered 1B market we’re upcoming on, Pena, Lee, Berkman, Pujols, Dunn (I think), and so on. I’m not so sure we don’t wind up with one of those.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 15, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pujols would work

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Mar 16, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well I wont be shocked if we just keep Pena anyway

Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!

by joeybw on Mar 17, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

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