Is John Jaso tipping pitches? Please watch the replay today.
by cmshannon on May 11, 2010 12:22 PM EDT
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Jaso places his throwing hand behind his back following a fastball call. Curveball/slider he leaves his throwing hand on the inside of his thigh. With runners on he blatantly sets up and keeps his throwing hand between his legs anticipating an offspeed pitch. Bases empty he displays the same behavior unless the offspeed pitch is out of the zone.
Do you really think Garza's fastball is flat - curveball/slider ineffective? Tori hunter was waiting for an offspeed pitch.
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Isn't it possible, why are you dismissing this completely?
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with kericr that saying the third base coach is giving a signal is irrational
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Our 3B coach used to pick up the fingers on the pitcher, if they were close together it was probably junk and he'd say our last name
If they were spread it was probably heat and he’d say our first name.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The way those guys wander around down there they can line it up
If it’s nothing, it’s nothing, but if it’s something it’s a big problem that is easily fixed. I don’t get the backlash against information other than it’s from a new poster.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you see me calling him an idiot or a troll? I asked him questions to try to get more information, and to me it doesn't look like he's thought this idea all the way through.
I’m dismissive because I disagree with his opinion and think he’s either missing information or hasn’t considered all of the possible perspectives to his opinion. I called him insane because he’s taking a tiny measure of information that he’s discovered and trying to blow it up.
Maybe insane isn’t the right word, but I’d rather call him insane then a fearmonger.
Fair enough, but I'm building a bomb shelter.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Anytime a long standing member of the community disagrees with a new person's opinion
We get the good ol’ boy meme rolling. Its becoming the boy who cried wolf. Some people just disagree with each other regardless of time served on drb. I agree the “insane” was probably a bit over the top but Keri corrected himself here.
The OP suggested that the Hunter homer was a result of potential pitch tipping and we have no way of proving that. I think that’s where Keri was going.
Again, I think the observation is a cool find regardless of the result. Just because someone else doesn’t agree with it doesn’t mean their alienating a new poster.
Let’s not be quick categorize every disagreement as boys club related.
www.draysbay.com, www.bloombergsports.mlblogs.com, Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on May 11, 2010 6:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's pretty frustrating that I have to point out that it wasn't an ironirec either.
I did it after WillisDaddy pointed out that there appeared to be some cases where the time from when he sets up to the time the Garza delievers the pitch is significant enough that he might have been able to be alerted to a tipped pitch.
Watching the condensed game now, the only thing I notice is that Jaso’s putting his hand out in front if the pitch is in the dirt. The Angels catcher isn’t doing that. Garza throws changeups @3:41 and @8:06 that aren’t in the dirt and Jaso keeps his hand to the side. All of the other breaking pitches shown where his hand is in front of him are either picked up out of the dirt, taken off shoetops, or hang over the plate and are hit out for homers.
Unfortunately, the condensed game doesn’t tell me a whole lot about the time that elpases before Jaso frames up for the pitch, but considering that he only put his hand out for crap that shouldn’t be hittable, and players were swinging at it, I don’t think the Angels were picking anything up from this. I don’t know how much you’d want to correct it either, other then to maybe tell Jaso to wait until the last possible moment to position himself to frame the pitch before the pitcher throws it.
It’s still interesting to see that nonetheless.
Tommy I disagree with you slightly...
his original post was a question. “Is John Jaso tipping pitches? Please watch the replay today.” He followed that by describing what Jaso is doing that he noticed. There were some longtime established posters who dismissed what he said as nonsense originally without going back and looking at the tape, which was all the guy said in his post. The last thing that he wrote was that Torii Hunter was waiting for something off speed. He might not be right, but this guy (or girl) picked something up that no one else has noticed and upon further examination has been going on for a while.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to argue with you...
so I hope you don’t think that. I went back and watched some full games innings and it’s questionable if they could pick it up. There are some times that it is long enough and others when it is not. You are right though, if it’s something that they think is a problem it should be an easy fix.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankly, not being able to clearly state what you're trying to say isn't an excuse
Bad Spelling and Grammar. We’re not exactly nazis here, but you have spellcheckers, dictionaries, and thesauruses literally at your fingertips. There are approximately 170,000 words in the English language. If you can’t figure out what you want to say, you shouldn’t be posting here, or anywhere. A blog or message-board is a communication arena that relies solely on text, so proper communication is paramount. Don’t type like you’re three years old. Don’t type like you’re texting on twitter or sending an SMS. For the love of all things holy, don’t use chat-speak.
I’m not trying to apologize anymore. I already said that I was out of line for being blunt, and I’ve looked at the condensed game and came up with the same conclusion I had before. If you think I’m still out of line, you can complain to SBN.
I don't think you have to apologize...
but what he wrote isn’t hard to understand if you take the time to read it. There may be some commas that could be added, but it wouldn’t change the meaning of anything he wrote. I was on your side originally, and jumped to the conclusion that this was a new user who had some wild speculation. Then I went back and checked the tape. I also watched non-condensed game defensive half innings after I got home. We can all agree that no one knows whether they knew the pitches were being tipped, but anyone watching the video can see that he is tipping it. If you don’t believe me ask SRQMan. If you want shield yourself with the technicality of him not using great punctuation that is fine, but I thought it was pretty big of you earlier today to admit that you might have been wrong. That’s the last thing I have to say on it.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
But the way the batter would probably pick it up is the movement of the arm out of the corner of the eye
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was wondering about that..
I’d love to here from someone who has played at a high level whether or not they would noticed the difference between an arm down by his knees staying still or moving past his knee.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I highly doubt they could see it without giving away that they are looking
but it doesn’t mean that someone else can’t tell them. The dugout or a base coach.
I’m not saying it’s happening I have no idea, but if it is then we should get it corrected
Free Dan Johnson!
Coaches do it all the time
That’s one of their main jobs. It’s a part of the game that’s not paid as much attention to, especially since TV cameras generally close up on one thing at a time, but most base coaches are giving a pretty steady stream of signs, and half of them aren’t even noticable unless you know what you’re looking for (a shift in weight, arms crossed, etc.) There was a book I read all about signs and sign stealing a while back (“The Hidden Language of Baseball”) and it’s definitely conceivable that a first base / third base coach could pick up on tipped piches and convey them to the hitter, especially if there’s nodoy on base they need to give signs to.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I asked my friend who made it to AA...
he said as a LHB you wouldn’t see it but you could “feel” it (his words).
He also said that the basecoach would have no problem picking it up.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, a lefty would pick it up. But he cited Torii Hunter, who's a righty.
Either way, both you and SRQ are providing the additional info that cms’ was unintentionally omitting. I still haven’t seen any of the video so I’ll refrain from commenting further.
So the first base coach has an angle.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you should probably STFU and STFD
;-)
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
I was just talking about the process, not really concerned about the result. The sliders were bad, that’s why they were being hit. I asked my friend because I thought that if I was batting lefty I would notice something moving past my knee. He aslo mentioned that if there were shadows it could be picked up too.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But is it happening? Have we looked at all of Jaso's starts compared to Shoppach/Navi?
Was there an increase in HR’s, or hits in general?
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Who cares about the results, he's leaving his arm in his lap on off-speed pitches, you can see it plain as day
If the results aren’t there yet, then they will be.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...
and cmshannon didn’t present his argument well when he said baserunner then third base coach. But he was right about how he was setting up, and everyone jumped down his throat without checking on it.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagine if it's known that a baserunner will always be relaying that information
We used to do one arm out for a fastball and both out for breaking balls, if the catcher was non-chalant with his signs.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm the only one who 'jumped down his throat' if you want to call it that.
And I don’t have the ability to look at video at work. It sounded to me like he was saying that Jaso was doing something that would be akin to setting up behind the plate, which is why I was asking questions to get some clarification, which stopped when it seemed like he was just making answers up on the fly (picking the 3rd base coach to relay signals to a right-handed batter).
I really do take offense to getting clumped in with ‘everyone’. I don’t analyze things the same way other people on this site do. Sometimes that’s a good thing. Sometimes, like in this instance, it’s a bad thing. To me, this post looked like panic, and I treated it as such, when instead it just looks like a really complex issue that is difficult to word.
True. It'd be like Garza himself tipping his pitches.
Eventually someone will pick up on it.
by R.J. Anderson on May 11, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Catchers
Put the throwing hand in front when runners on or after two strikes. Quicker exchange. I am not dismissing the possiblilty of Jaso leaving his hand in front with no runners on with a breaking ball pitch. He is working on blocking better and he made need that at this time.
So anytime someone hits a homerun, it's due to sign tipping?
Barry Bonds must have had an inside guy on every team then.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
This is so dumb
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the constructive criticism.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
cha cha cha!
"I think we should put this guy on blast and let all the guys around town know to make sure you don’t leave your GFs around Evan Longoria while he’s in town because he has no class or respect for other men."
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on May 11, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If this was an established poster you wouldn't be giving him a hard time.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If the thoughts were construed the same way I absolutely would.
It’s not even his premise so much as how he supports it. He talks about baserunners and then talks about a solo shot. Maybe Jaso is tipping his pitches, I’ve never paid that much attention, but to use one or two examples because a guy blasted a shot on an offspeed pitch, that’s like saying Zobrist can’t hit a fastball because he whiffed once. It was one time.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
He supports it by saying go back and watch the game
I’m re-watching it now and I’ve already seen the pattern as early as the first inning. The question should be, “Has he been doing this all season?”
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Which would make more sense than saying
Watch the Napoli home run again What was he guessing offspeed.
and jumping to conclusions based on that. It’s absolutely possible, and perhaps it sounds like I, or anyone, came down too hard, but the argument presented is one batter, or at most, one game versus a larger sample.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
If it is true
Then to wait to correct until he gets a larger sample size is idiotic even if they aren’t picking up the tipped pitches because if cm noticed it then I’m sure the other teams have or eventually will
Free Dan Johnson!
I'm not saying he should wait to correct it, but on any other topic if someone says based on one game or one at bat
that some phenomenon is occurring, they are crucified. I just think it’s silly to point to one home run or one game as a trend. I also said I’ve never paid that much attention to him. I didn’t dismiss his idea, just the fact that with one guy hitting one home run on one off speed pitch means nothing.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
You're missing the point of the argument, it is about the pattern not the one homer.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The results don't really matter
If he is doing something that could possibly give the other team even a slight advantage he needs to correct it
Free Dan Johnson!
He cited that as the example at the end, but he was talking about the whole game...
that would seem to be more than a coincidence
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He mentioned it in the GDT yesterday as well
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Runners on and Bases Empty
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
One last question
is it on any count when calling for junk or is it a two strike count with bases empty?
It wasn't just two strikes bases empty...
I’d have to go back and watch again to see.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't matter what the count was
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No one makes a peep when people go on blast against sf1 on this type of stuff.
In fact, “ban him” comments were the norm the last few days.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
No
But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t occasionally help. It’s a bigger part of the game than most fans give it credit for.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
He was guessing off speed in the 9th too, but didn't get it.
I think he just guesses off speed period
DRB: There is certainly good content, but other than that the behavior here is pretty poor; They are right, you are wrong. End of story.
This is supposed to be the less technical, more relaxed blog for cool kids.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 11, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that it made a difference...
his slider seemed a little flat and was catching a lot of the strike zone…BUT I just watched the condensed game and he does set up with his hand inside his leg on off speed pitches and outside or behind his body on hard stuff. I only noticed twice when he had it the other way and it was with his hand outside of his leg on sliders.
Boom. Outta Here.
Before the pitcher comes set / as the catcher is giving his target ...
I would say it’s enough time for the batter to notice.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to insult or act irrational.....
but when using a hinged catcher’s mitt there is no reason not to have you throwing hand out of the way.
Jaso is a very timely addition to this team. The offensive improvement is long overdue.
His technique is flawed and it is a recognizable pattern.
Is John Jaso tipping his waitress?
VA VA VOOOOOOOM
RIP Andy Hellicksonstine. He died, like so many young men of his generation, he died before his time. In your wisdom, SBN, you took him, as you took so many bright flowering young men at the OTTOTD. These young men gave their lives. And so would Andy. Andy, who loved trannies.
I could be wrong. It could be a bad habit picked up in the bullpen.
From giving Bobby Ramos massages.
by cmshannon on May 11, 2010 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
What's his CERA!
DRB: There is certainly good content, but other than that the behavior here is pretty poor; They are right, you are wrong. End of story.
This is supposed to be the less technical, more relaxed blog for cool kids.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 11, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions
Not every pitch can be determined quick enough. Some would be tough to see a coach signaling the batter in time
but there are a good amount where a base coach could easily signal him.
Yeah that's what I'm seeing, the biggest deal is when he starts with it behind his back, then you know it's heat
A lot of the time he starts in his lap and will move it late of leave it there and that doesn’t help much. The solo shot he kept it there the entire time.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't ahve any other games DVR'd or anything do you?
I can’t find any video online from games this year to look.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Yes it's really the best
Archived/condensed games are this shizzle, sorry to be off topic, please don’t ban me.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Did it happen in other games?
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Same here...
once I get a little work done I’l check the other games.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
MLB.tv condensed games...
as was said.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Haven't watched a replay, but it seems like this was a good observation based on feedback
If nothing else, he should clean up the habit fast.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Jaso had 3 hits yesterday, you know Navi's starting.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't I really should be getting a lot of shit done today so I'm out.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he did with Wheeler
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I watched the replay too, if they didn't know about it before: They know about it now.
Drinking Sunny D because the purple stuff is rank.
We are talking to you, DRaysBay user Stu!
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you screencap the difference (assuming you're watching on the computer)?
by R.J. Anderson on May 11, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm watching on my iPhone right now...
I can try when I get home later. This is really fantastic.
It’s amazing. Cheese: right hand is behind his right leg (I’m assuming to protect it from foul tips). Anything off speed: he leaves his hand in the same position where he was giving signals.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Condensed shows the count at the result of the PA...
so either K or Ball in Play. Lot of two strike counts obviously but from what I’ve seen, enough one strike counts too.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Never mind. Here they are
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25552899@N04/4599644604/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25552899@N04/4599027253/
by SRQman on May 11, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The only one that was really super early was the fastball one. That one could have easily been spotted.
There are plenty more examples but those were two examples.
This seems like an easy fix.
“Hey, stop doing that. Or, better yet, mix it up a little.”
by R.J. Anderson on May 11, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just about to write this.
Seems like all he would have to do is wait until the pitcher is in his windup to move his hand.
The game theory whore in me almost wants people to catch on.
Only to have him do the opposite.
It’d be like telling the batter that Garza is throwing a fastball. Then you have to decide whether to trust him or not.
by R.J. Anderson on May 11, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting...
probably best to stay away from distinguishable patterns. I’m surprised that someone with next to no comments picked up on this…and that the Rays haven’t.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
going back to the Sheets-Davis game, Powell just keeps his hand in his glove until the pitcher is going into his windup.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
As a former catcher (KK'd)
I would have a much better opportunity to see the batter looking back prior to a pitch with my peripheral vision than the batter would to see my hands or setup location in his peripheral vision. In the instance the batter was looking at signs, he’d get dotted in the back the next pitch. Different level of ball, but I don’t see how any batter would have the ability to process that quickly without being distracted from the incoming pitch.
For the record, I will never reference catching again..or cookies, or paint, or managing the Sox.
"Hot Tub Time Machine might be the best movie ever!" -Nobody on Earth
by Passionate Apathy on May 11, 2010 4:00 PM EDT reply actions
If you look above...
I asked a friend who made it as far as AA. He said that a lefty would feel the movement around legs when the right hand went behind his leg. Doesn’t matter though because either basecoach would be able to pick it up and relay to the batter fairly easily.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I talked to my cousin in law and he said it's
“Perfect, just have the base coach give you a signal. Sounds easy.”
R u 4 realz?
Someone told me that quotes on the internet means sarcasm.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Subtract 1 from Jaso's WAR at the end of the year.
RIP Andy Hellicksonstine. He died, like so many young men of his generation, he died before his time. In your wisdom, SBN, you took him, as you took so many bright flowering young men at the OTTOTD. These young men gave their lives. And so would Andy. Andy, who loved trannies.
by PlayOnWords on May 11, 2010 5:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Good post
I think this is an excellent post, if only because it picks up on something no one else has, and then the comments were extremely helpful to understand why this was important. +1 rec
also, seems like a real easy fix. Just move your arm later or move your arm when it’s an off speed pitch to confuse the batter.
Gravy pitch, fa sho.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Both were.
I really doubt Jaso had anything to do with these two going deep. They were badly hung sliders.
Yeah I think this is the bigger point, not whether it led to a dinger or two.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 11, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
How many other catchers? How long did he watch each of them?
You have a link?
It just seems like a silly thing when 3 out of 4 runs Garza gave up last night came off of really, really shitty pitches and Garza gave up less than a hit per 9 and struck out 7.
I think a mountain’s being made out of a molehill here.
It's not just on those pitches and like Willis said he saw it in another start. It isn't the cause for the dingers
but it could be giving the other team an advantage that they could easily fix.
I went back and watched Jaso's starts for at least three random innings per start...
and he’s been doing it since at least Friday April 30th against the Royals. Navarro keeps his hand behind his leg when receiving the ball from what I saw when looking at a few of his innings. It is impossible to say if the other team picked up on this, I would say no since it looks like the Rays have/had not. Good job to cmshannon.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 11, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone is saying that it caused us to lose a game
However if we give up 1 run due to this tell over the course of the season then it is 1 run too many
Go Gators!!
I have to commend the original poster for this one.
Players are obviously looking for any possible advantage, and if no one in the Rays organization picked up on this it could go on for a while. Possibly until we trade for, or sign someone from outside the organization. I’m not saying that any opponents have picked up on it yet either, but I hope they nip this one in the bud.
Like most of the comments
Im not sure we can say because he did this Garza gave up the two home runs. As Vin (aka the Original Sonnanstine12) pointed out both were fat pitches to hitters with good power.
Regardless, it was a great observation and it gives us another thing to pay attention to during a game. Kind of like B.J. going with the Joe Morgan-like elbow twitch before he swings. If we noticed it, the organization notices it, or they definitely will after today.
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pretty cool
I mentioned in a previous GDT on how the A's were relaying pitches in from 2nd base
I noticed it during the series at the Trop. No idea if it was due to Jaso, but he was catching. It was literally as clear as day. The one scenario I remember explicitly was Powell making some type of hand motion right before the pitch, two pitches in a row. If I remember right he touched his ear or something. It was the Tuesday game.
No idea if they picked up on Jaso’s tell or they just noticed the sign.
And really who cares if it has cost us any runs? The point is that it gives the opposition an advantage that they do not deserve. Sooner or later it’ll bite us in the butt.
Go Gators!!
I just re-watched the bottom of the second of the Saturday game
Powell was on 2nd, but I didn’t see any weird signals, Gross before him didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. Maybe it’s the wrong game, Jaso still had the pattern for the most part, but he was generally dropping his hand back pretty late.
KK hates the Rays
That was literally the worst move the Rays FO has made since the new regime
Go Gators!!
by matthan on May 11, 2010 1:26 AM EDT
by Andy Hellicksonstine on May 12, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a story up that the Phillies are being accused of stealing signs.
Thought it was pertinent in this thread. Linkage
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Great observation OP
I will be looking for this tonight to see if anything has changed. I love this site.
Damn
Watching this 1st inning, it is pretty damn obvious. Coincidentally, Ichiro was on 2b when Gutierrez hit his HR on a fastball
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