Edwin Jackson Throws No Hitter, Rays Lose 1-0
by Erik Hahmann on Jun 25, 2010 10:20 PM EDT
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via www.archives.gov
Jeff Niemann: 7.1IP, 6H, 1ER, 2BB, 8K, 106 pitches
Edwin Jackson: 9.0IP, 0H, 0ER, 8BB, 6K, 149 pitches
Poor Jeff Niemann. Congrats to Edwin Jackson. Shame on the Rays offense.
Hank Blalock and Jason Bartlett batting in the 9th inning was some kind of cruel joke. I don't know what to say. This tweet from Keith Law probably says it best:
Bud Smith is sitting at home, cheering for Edwin Jackson and clapping with his one functioning arm
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Wow, on the front page no less
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 10:21 PM EDT reply actions
Making fun of the handicapped AND a link to a broken image? You're the Rays offense of masthead writers tonight Erik.
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, and you aren't going to stand by your mocking of the handicapped?
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Hm, the pic shows up for me.
And maybe the handicapped pic was a bit harsh.
by Erik Hahmann on Jun 25, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
In all fairness I'm completely locked out from any *.gov website
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Unbelievable.
No way did I think this was possible
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Pick on Hank and JB all you want
If Joyce or BJ were able to make a productive out Edwin would have needed to go at least 10 to get his no-hitter. It seems silly to be pointing at Hank abd JB who put 7 balls in play on a night like tonight.
/Harvey Haddix’d
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Hank was pretty bad tonight
He has no idea what he’s doing out there
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is there is no point in blaming one or two guys hen you get no-no'd
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 25, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course not
They all should be blamed except maybe Pena/Zobrist-who had done okay today
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
When the guy is handing out walks like they're free condoms to teenagers, drawing a couple of walks doesn't really do that much to impress me.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Relatively, Pena and Zobrist were amazing
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 25, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Pena had the highest WPA of all hitters
at +.147
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Relatively, Edwin Jackson was amazing.
See how poorly this works?
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
He was beyond the third
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 25, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
And that would have been fine if he hadn't have been just as effective while being completely horrible the first 3 innings.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Joyce and BJ were responsible for the Houdini
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 25, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see how you could possibly take an apologist approach. You might be right, but I don't even care anymore.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
I'm not saying blalock played well
Its lame to always point at Blalock and JB when the whole team has been failing like crazy.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 25, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Blalock sucks, JB does not
But tonight there was plenty of fail to go around.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
JB has some form of plate approach
Blalock is just hack away & hope it works
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
JB shouldn't be batting anywhere but 9th in the order.
And it’s easy to make a case that with Brignac on the team, he has no business seeing regular playing time.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
The problem is, when you have 4 players who should be batting 9th in the batting order, 3 of those players end up not batting 9th.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
So I take it
You believe the Bartlett of the first two months (pre-injury) is the real Bartlett and you expect no regression at all.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We saw the real Bartlett in 2008
And 2008 Bartlett is a number 9 hitter. And Brignac now is better then Bartlett at the plate.
2009 Bartlett is a major anomoly, as was the first 2 months of this year in the other direction.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Luckier, not better
Bartlett > Brignac in BB, K, BB/K
Brignac with huge lead in BABIP
One of those is not a skill.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Brignac takes more pitches per plate appearance then anyone else on this team. His approach is much better then Bartlett's.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
4.11 to 4.07
Hardly a significant difference. And his O-Swing refutes your qualitative analysis.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
So where would you put Bartlett then in the lineup, if he's not a number 9 hitter?
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
I have no problem with JB at 7, 8, or 9
Frankly I prefer 9 because of his speed, at least relative to the other options (Brig, Blalock, SRod). I was taking issue with your suggestion that he does not deserve regular PT given Brignac’s presence.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a minor point stipulated with uncertainty, so you overreacted.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Actually...
…no it wasn’t. I did type it like I sounded confident about it, so that’s my mistake. You could possibly make a case that Brignac should start over him.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Fair enough
IMO, it goes Bartlett > Brignac >>> SRod
But I concede that is based on what I EXPECT to happen the rest of the way, not solely on YTD performance.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
2008 was Bartlett's WORST MLB YEAR
Convenient that you believe it was the “real” Bartlett.
WAR 3.0 in 2006, 2.8 in 2007, then 1.7 in 2008 . . . then 4.8 in 2009, which I’ll agree was an anomaly. But he’s at 0.0 in 2010. I’m expecting a significant regression in a positive direction going forward.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
JB's WAR is high in those years because of defense
Defense is shot now
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, because he was so much better then 2007.
Like, barely better. 2007 and 2008 were the same offensively. I just chose the year that he was playing for the Rays.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
And I've been talking about his offense only, since WAR considers defensive value, it's not all that relevant to what I'm talking about.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
OK, but . . .
Whether or not a player deserves regular playing time should be based on the player as a whole, not just offense. That’s why we keep running BJ out there even when he can’t hit, because his glove saves us runs.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Joyce's 2nd AB was gut wretching
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
All of his AB's tonight were frustrating
But I’m willing to give him a pass because it was his first game back in the Show.
I think Maddon should have PH for him the last time.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He just looked lost tonight hitting
I mean yeah first game back, but Jackson left some pitches on the plate he should’ve crushed
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hen, you get no-no'd!
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Typical calculator viewpoint
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't just them
When you get no hit the entire offense deserves the firing squad
2010 Rays Baseball: Shut up, Mr. Rosenthal. We're not giving up.
2010 FSU Baseball: 2010 ATLANTIC COAST CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS
That's a pretty good KLaw tweet
I was thinking that the whole game-he’s gonna pay for this later
PIZZA?!?
Sandrew is a moron, 15 Ks???
Edwin is throwing a no-hitter with 15 K’s, book it
And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 25, 2010 3:20 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
.
If I could turn back time
If I could find a way I’d take back those words that hurt you and you’d stay
I don’t know why I did the things I did I don’t know why I said the things I said
Pride’s like a knife it can cut deep inside
Words are like weapons they wound sometimes.
I didn’t really mean to hurt you I didn’t wanna see you go I know I made you cry, but baby
And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 26, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Shelton's gotta be feeling hot under the collar
by Jason Collette on Jun 25, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it really his fault?
We saw this same stuff last year
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. He's been tasked with fixing the offense, and he's completely failed in doing that.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
What if the problem is perma-broke'd
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well a good chunk of the team turns over this offseason anyway, so that's nothing to worry about.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
I'm gonna do a FP on the potential FA/Draft Comp either tonight or tomorrow
I calculated a potential haul of (including the Rays 1RD pick) of about 8 first day picks.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, Henderson had Gabe Gross in his toolbelt
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 25, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Public is gonna want someone's head
The team’s sOPS+ in all of the RISP stats is not bad at all. Team is just barely below average with RISP but is above league average in most of the splits. I’m guessing if we could split that between first 44 games and last 29 games, there would be a drastic difference.
by Jason Collette on Jun 25, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno where those numbers are available
I can find June or RISP, but not RISP in June
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Where do they have RISP in June
Do not see
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
It's ridiculous how our hitters' approach seems to change when it's time to "GTMI"
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:43 PM EDT reply actions
They can't score runs off Walks
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, yes, they can
For example, bases loaded nobody out (see, third inning tonight). A walk scores a run, tonight’s Rays fail-fense does not.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean they can't score runs when the guys got on via BBs
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
They can't score no matter how the guys get on
Pop ups and GIDP’s and whiffs . . . oh my!
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Half angry, half happy
All confused
(Edwin was my favorite D-Ray/Ray when he was here) and I wore my Cy Jackson jersey to the game tonight.
Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt.
And he's cooked for the rest of the season
Good thing the DBags have nothing to play for.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And I suggest everyone listen to The xx self titled album to get nice and depressed for the hangover to come.
Or some Joy Division.
Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt.
I've never heard it called depressing.
Go with The Antlers – Hospice if you want sadcore.
I am an artist and I have been drinking.
Beck - Sea Change
And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 26, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked Joy Division better when they lost the dead weight and renamed themselves New Order
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Sabrmetricians need to find out why this keeps happening to us, find a cure plezz.
Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt.
Up until now, they've been too busy dismissing it as luck, circumstance or anomaly.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
At some point the team hacking at bad pitches and showing poor plate discipline has to be accounted for.
There is zero excuse for being no-hit by a guy who didn’t even have decent stuff.
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by Jamie DeVriend on Jun 25, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Shelton might have to be sacrificial lamb'd just to keep the howling mobs at bay.
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The Toughest Blog in America
by Jamie DeVriend on Jun 25, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems like ownership would appreciate howling mobs descending down on the trop
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer they descend on Bill Foster's office and physically remove his dumb ass.
Voodoo Five - South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
The Toughest Blog in America
by Jamie DeVriend on Jun 25, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Firing Shelton would not be a sacrafice. What he is doing has not worked.
This team was lucky early with RISP and we all knew it. They’ve gone from mediocre to bad.
Either way, minor moves isn’t working. This lineup doesn’t need to be tweaked, it needs to be overhauled.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
GTMI has been an epic failure
If that’s Shelton, fire him.
But this lineup does not need an overhaul (well, except the removal of Blalock, which to me is a tweak long overdue). The players in this lineup are good. They are the right players. Too many of them are slumping at the same time, and too many have acquired a bad habit of making unproductive outs at clutch moments. (Although that last part is anecdotal and may or may not be supported by the RISP and/or Clutch and Late stats over a larger period of time.)
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't agree
We both agree on Blalock, so nothing more needs to be said about him.
Unless the Rays are playing the Red Sox or the Yankees this year, Carlos Pena has been beyond pathetic, and I think that it’s time to start rotating in someone else.
Gabe Kapler is 36 years old. People can argue his history all they want, but we know that age sooner or later sets in and players will fall off the planet sometimes.
BJ Upton has done nothing to prove to me that he can be consistent at the plate. He gets hot for a few weeks, then he gets bad. He struck out a lot last year, but he did so looking and a lot of times on pitches outside at the edge of the zone. He’s swinging at everything in sight now. Maybe that’s approach, but there’s no proof to say otherwise since every approach he’s taken in the last year + has resulted in failure.
The fact that this team kept Navarro on the team for 3 weeks and handled three catchers is indefensible. The fact that Jaso has the best OBP on this team wouldn’t be so bad, if it wasn’t for the fact that he’s so much better then everyone else that he has to lead off.
I don’t see what one change would fix all of these issues. They need to be resolved independently, with separate solutions.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
And I didn't even touch on Bartlett/Brignac. That's a whole nother mess to untangle on it's own.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Some are already solved
Kapler should not come back. If Joyce fails, Johnson and Jennings should get the next chances.
I agree completely about Upton, but this team can win with him in the lineup. His speed and defense are enough to create value even when he’s lost at the plate. He stays.
I am not a Jaso believer, but you ride him until he regresses. Even once he cools down, Shoppach and Jaso at the C spot are acceptable to me. I don’t need to see Navi again on this team.
Pena is the only player who to me is a tough call. He’s actually hitting at his usual level (250-260) in June. If he keeps that up, he adds value and should stay. If he regresses to the 190 hitter he was in May, I’d agree with you: rotate in replacements. Johnson comes to mind. If all else fails, Zobrist (though that’s a waste of his defensive ability, which is plus at both 2B and RF).
If Bartlett fails to regress as I believe he will, it just means his PT goes to Brignac and SRod. Easy.
I think the players who should be playing are:
vs. RHP: Crawford, Upton, Zobrist; Longoria, Bartlett, Brignac, Pena; Jaso; Joyce
vs. LHP: Crawford, Upton, Zobrist; Longoria, Bartlett, SRod, Pena; Shoppach; Joyce/Jaso OR
Crawford, Upton, Joyce; Longoria, Bartlett, Zobrist, Pena; Shoppach; Jaso (if SRod flops)
And most days, most of these players are already in the lineup. Which is why I think a tweak rather than an overhaul is in order.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 26, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
but Pena doesn't hit for average,
he’s the HR threat. his average couldn’t honestly matter less. considering the slump, he’s underperforming but still has hit a lot of homers and 50RBIs at this point. you just have to accept that he is what he is, a 3 true outcome hitter.
Defensive analysis is not as exact as offensive analysis.
There is no fieldFX (yet); the vast majority of sabermetric defensive analysis still involves manually reviewing plays visually. I do not feel comfortable enough with defensive sabermeric stats to believe the analysis to the extent that it does, namely quantifying value as a measure of runs saved. I believe in it enough as a metric to say one defender is overall better or worse then another, and to some extent to say by how much, but I don’t trust it enough to put it on an equal scale when compared to offensive analysis.
I know you’re not dumb, and I don’t want you to take this the wrong way, but I think that you’re overlooking the core objective in the game, which is to score more runs then the other team. When a poor offense plays poorly, it doesn’t put runs on the board. Regardless of how good a defense plays, it also never puts runs on the board, and you can’t win games by allowing fewer runs then the other team when you can only put up 0’s.
By taking this idea to absolute extremes and adding the third element of the game (pitching) for an example, a defensive team that is 100% incapable of generating outs can still win a game if the offense scores 1 run and the pitcher retires every batter he faces. An offense 100% incapable of generating runs cannot win in this same senario. Defense is important, but a player who is 2 WAR offensively and 0 WAR defensively is in my opinion more valuable then a player who is 2 WAR defensively and 0 WAR offensively, 100% of the time.
BJ can be a full defensive player in a lineup as long as the players around him can generate offense. For a team like the Rays who seemlingly cannot generate offense at all, he is a liability.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
by kericr on Jun 26, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your posts have really picked up in the reason discussion realm lately
Kudos
Go Gators!!
by matthan on Jun 26, 2010 8:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dear Stu:
Build your greakin stadium in my backyard. It seats eight, that should work
Greakin stadium?
Shouldn’t that go in Tarpon Springs?
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I was expecting an Opa!
But I’ll take it.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jun 25, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
What about the other 7 seats?
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
His wife and the rest of the domino league
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So you'll have front row seats
for Kazmir’s 187-pitch no-hitter next year?
Your source for replacement level commentary
This offense should not be a surprise
fafanpost in the morn—if i can figure it out
If you email it to me I'll post it for you
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
69420@69420.69420
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
C'mon this is your night
weak effort man.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 25, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
my night? wtf are you talking about?
think i enjoy being right/
I don't know
I just got on to read YOUR comments, and you’re not bringing it tonight.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 25, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I expected to have
a similair headline as this one on the front page by midnight ‘Cubs (DRB) suspend (SF1)Zambrano indefinitely after tirade’
by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 25, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Tonight's performance was pitiful and beyond any kind of explanation or reasoning. Also TGN1 greedily took up the "E-Jax is great" argument which ultimately limited his options.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Hmmm
He still has the Hammel, Talbot, PtB, Joyce cards to drop, or old school Bobby Abreu trade trolling. I just expected more from him tonight, I wanted someone to be more pissed off at than the Rays.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 25, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Hammel and Talbot both got lit up, and he hammered PtB harder then anyone else on this site.
Also, the only way he could get me more pissed off at him then the Rays is if he posted pictures of his erect junk. I don’t know when the next time I’ll watch a game for this team is, but it ain’t tomorrow. Or the day after, or the next game after that.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Understood
(SSS reactionary thinking etc… aside) This team needs to trade some prospects for a bona-fide hitter and at least start ‘discussing’ Hellboy as an option. On a side note if this FO thinks sacrificing Navi will do any good, I would be okay with that.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Jun 25, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I will not be attending today's game
I have tickets for it, and I’m still not going.
I just don’t want to ruin a perfectly good Saturday
Silly me for pointing out that the pitcher who threw a perfect game is great
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Kapler was with the team in spirit, and it showed, because we got gassed.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
by kericr on Jun 25, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's offensive
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I must still be drunk...
because I didn’t realize kericr made a holocaust joke until I read your comment
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 26, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Dallas Braden great?
Sign lady must die.
dude, this one's over and so is the season
by sternfan1 on Jun 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
by EminenceFront on Jun 25, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
or Armando Galarraga?
Sign lady must die.
dude, this one's over and so is the season
by sternfan1 on Jun 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
by EminenceFront on Jun 25, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
They both threw perfect games QED
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't mean they're great.
Sign lady must die.
dude, this one's over and so is the season
by sternfan1 on Jun 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
by EminenceFront on Jun 25, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you thrown a perfect game?
Its the hardest thing to do
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought an orifice out of diamond is the hardest thing to do.
I am an artist and I have been drinking.
It also requires an extreme amount of luck.
Sign lady must die.
dude, this one's over and so is the season
by sternfan1 on Jun 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
by EminenceFront on Jun 25, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Luck is just preparation meeting opportunity
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
k Sensai.
Sign lady must die.
dude, this one's over and so is the season
by sternfan1 on Jun 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
by EminenceFront on Jun 25, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This should be in the DRB Community Guidelines.
http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/
I am an artist and I have been drinking.
The community guidelines need to be replaced by "No anime"
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that another one of your stupid robot animes?
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
When have I posted stupid robot animes?
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
When aren't you stupid robot animes?
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
This EJax scandal is getting to you tonight
Erm, I don’t think I’m an anime…
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
I MISSED THEM ALL. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
I'm actually looking forward to 2011, where expectations are low
and players don’t play as tight as PBrady’s ass cheeks
I'm an apologist?
I assumed you knew that I was trolling your trolls.
I am an artist and I have been drinking.
If all goes as I think it will, I still expect to make the playoffs next year
Just not the world series per se
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
Team Cousin Pam'd Your Girl up to 61.5 points.
I am the best manager.
I am an artist and I have been drinking.
Look at the bright side.
At least the Rays didn’t have any errors.
by docescobar07 on Jun 25, 2010 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If you really wanted to troll, you'd take up their arguments. You fail me yet again, starscream.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
You're just not worth listening to.
Simple.
Sign lady must die.
dude, this one's over and so is the season
by sternfan1 on Jun 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
by EminenceFront on Jun 25, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there really anything to say?
Not everyone’s love of Rays baseball is tied directly to the number of times they post on the internet. Nor do you have to choose scapegoats. There is no rational explanation how in the fuck tonight just happened in the manner that it went down.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 25, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Who are you referring to?
CubFanRaysAddict is right. Most people are not on the internets at 11:30 on a Friday night.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 26, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not, but DRB is full of nerd virgins. What else do we have to do?
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Love that you lump yourself into that heading
+1
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
Sorry that I had a kickball game and watched the back half of the Rays game at a bar with friends
I don’t think I could have added anything to the bubbling over frustration that I’ve seen going through these threads.
And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 26, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I can say that I didn't know whether to throw up, cry, or punch God after that game, just terrible.
And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 26, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
At what point do we start poiting the finger at Derek Shelton
Even lousy teams get hits, we are supposed to be World Series caliber. Id like to know if anyone has a stat of how many times we have had no hits going into the 7th inning, or less than 3. It’s not just bad hitting, it’s striking out on 3 pitches… PtB leaves and all of a sudden, he is a major league hitter again??? I don’t want to be over reaction guy, but this is really pathetic on so many levels
I don't think it's overreaction.
the team is at a point now where they’re down to two options: ride it out because you still think you’re right, or make drastic changes because you think you’ve got it wrong. The offense has been lifeless for quite a while now and there isn’t a lot of grey area. If they ride it out and they’re right, I’ll gladly concede that I’m wrong and take my medicine; conversely if they make changes and they keep flailing I’ll admit the same thing.
But if they do nothing, and continue to do nothing, and produce nothing, then they’re wrong and they’ve wasted a season where they really can’t afford to fail, and that failure falls in this front office’s lap. If they make mid-season changes and it fails, at least they can argue that they tried and maybe take some of the edge off of failing.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
Not very surprising...
The only surprising thing is it happened vs a pretty mediocre Jackson.
As I’ve been harping on for a couple years now…this is a very streaky team, with a fairly high K rate, and a low BA. Days like this should certainly be expected more than normal.
Now watch us have a couple great offensive games. Then a 2 hitter. Then a great game. It’s our nature and how our offense is built.
I’ve seen a lot of bashing the advanced stats. They work and are informative, but on the surface they lack context. The final statistic number may be the same between two teams, but how they get that number may be dramatically different. That results in a very real day to day difference. We are seeing that now with the build of our offense.
At the end of the day it is just one loss
Go Gators!!
by matthan on Jun 25, 2010 11:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's not been just on & off
They’ve been in a huge offensive rut for an extended period of time
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 25, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying the rays have been no hit twice because of advanced stats?
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 25, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever
Doesn’t change the underlying point. But I don’t want to assume thats what he meant until I hear it from him.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 26, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
No?
Not sure where you’d get that.
What I was saying about advanced stats is far too often we look at the final number but not the components (and the components of the components) of that number.
Something such as a low BA, high K, and streakiness may be embedded in an advanced stat. You can still have a high wOBA with those issues. However you are more likely to get a game such as this.
Point is we have a good offensive team that is prone to slumps as well as certain traits that result in low hit games.
Go Gators!!
by matthan on Jun 26, 2010 12:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gotcha
Yeah, I definitely misunderstood where you were going w/ that…glad I asked
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 26, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
thats only part of it
it’s not the no-no that has me so mad, it’s the dfact that E Jax walked 8!!! EIGHT!!! Pitchers that walk 8 lose by 10 runs, not throw no hitters unless your name is AJ Burnett. The fact that the Rays could not get a Sac Fly or something is the worst part. The approach is all wrong, the lack of contact is really mind numbing… Im really thinking its the hitting coach’s problem, it should never go like this
by nittsallgood on Jun 26, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I said this in the GDT when comparing it to that no-hitter.
Burnett was not good that day either, but people look back on that game and compliment his performance as if it were for the ages. And it’s going to happen again with Jackson. Jackson was good for 6 innings and absolutely horrible for 3, yet was universally effective due to how awful this team’s offense played tonight, which is an extension of how poor they’ve played all year long.
We’re taught as children to give credit where credit is due. It may sound like sour grapes, but I’m not willing to give him credit for being good enough to pitch a no-hitter. I think it’s much more accurate analysis to blame the team for getting no-hit. This isn’t like Halladay’s no hitter, where he was just impossible to beat. Edwin Jackson did not have no-hit stuff tonight.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
That's way too long to make into my sig
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I did. Will post after I finish my delicious drumstick
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Posted
(and the drumstick was delish fyi)
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if I should take this as a compliment.
I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.
The thing that gets me is that he walked 7 in 2+ IP
And had his Pitch count already 60+ and we had 5-6-7 coming up
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 26, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
He was terribly wild early
Fastball was all over, but the Rays barely made any good contact
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jun 26, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Rays seem to be very poor at adjusting
when he started tossing his Slider, they were lost up there
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 26, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
He's still guessing
which is not a good sign, he may have already maxed out
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 26, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I think this is selective memory (Strikeouts Bolded)
Tampa Bay – Bottom of 1st
Edwin Jackson pitching for Arizona
J Jaso struck out looking.
B Zobrist walked.
E Longoria grounded out to third, B Zobrist to second.
B Zobrist to third on wild pitch by E Jackson.
C Pena walked.
M Joyce grounded out to first.
Tampa Bay – Bottom of 2nd
Edwin Jackson pitching for Arizona
B Upton walked.
H Blalock flied out to left.
S Rodriguez struck out swinging.
J Bartlett walked, B Upton to second.
J Jaso popped out to second.
Tampa Bay – Bottom of 3rd
Edwin Jackson pitching for Arizona
B Zobrist walked.
B Zobrist stole second.
E Longoria walked.
C Pena walked, B Zobrist to third, E Longoria to second.
M Joyce flied out to right.
B Upton grounded into fielder’s choice to third, B Zobrist out at home, E Longoria to third, C Pena to second.
H Blalock grounded out to second.
They made contact those innings, just right to defenders.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 26, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Maddon needs to go against tendacies
do something different like Start Shoppach against a righty on a day after he homers… I love Joe Ma, but his lineups are robotic. Play a hot streak if one looks like it could happen? I know its against all things saber butwhats going on now isnt happeneing, and I know these guys are better hitters than this…
by nittsallgood on Jun 26, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Shoppach vs RHP is a big no-no
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 26, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Shoppach has a very bad track record vs RHP
unless you use the Danks theory
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jun 26, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I can appreciate that
My friend used my tix tonight, and I was strangely jealous.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 26, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
A friend that was gonna go couldn't because his Dad said no at the last minute.
He is seriously pissed. I saw it with my lil brother and one of my friends. Great moment was when my bro said “Thanks for taking me bro.” I’m not even that mad.
Doesn't want his son corrupted by SRQman
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I always found Jackson both humble and personable
Obviously I’m not happy right now, but I harbor no ill feelings towards him, and his place in the record books next to Doc Ellis.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 26, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya, I appreciate that too...
I still think Id urinate on top of the zipped bad though
by nittsallgood on Jun 26, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
DRB meet-up atop the Skyway.
WHO’S WITH ME?!?!?!
Therefore, I should be ignored completely, because I’m a blithering idiot.
When John Jaso strikes out twice in a game, he becomes Kohn Kaso, which is Spanish for "with cheese."
by kericr on Jun 1, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jun 26, 2010 12:22 AM EDT reply actions
Maybe if we're talkin Skyway Jacks
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Good thing I didn't watch this mess. Instead I went to the A-Team
BUT THEY’RE REPLAYING IT NOW ON FSN FLORIDA!
Therefore, I should be ignored completely, because I’m a blithering idiot.
When John Jaso strikes out twice in a game, he becomes Kohn Kaso, which is Spanish for "with cheese."
by kericr on Jun 1, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jun 26, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Wayne County vs West Jones.... The Rivalry
Sign OJ Da Juiceman
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 26, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Jaime Cevallos for hitting coach
Get this man on the phone.
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
I'm not sure I've ever felt worse after a baseball game than I did tonight
That was just brutal.
2010 Rays Baseball: Shut up, Mr. Rosenthal. We're not giving up.
2010 FSU Baseball: 2010 ATLANTIC COAST CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS
The worst I've ever felt was after the Indians game last year
Since then I’ve just tried not to care as much.
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
the indians loss was arguably worse than this one
but i gues we’ll see how we respond to this, i.e., will the hangover be evident?
The hangover will have as much of an effect as the supposed Super Inspirational Marlins Thrilla
You’re better off guessing their subsequent performance with a deck of tarot cards.
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
There was a chorus of boos when some 15,000 of us at the Storm/Battlewings game heard of EJax's no-hitter.
They interrupted a play in progress to share the news, too, and showed the final out on the jumbotron. The next snap resulted in a Storm touchdown, and there was practically no applause.
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