Rays Blow Early Lead and Series Vs. Yankees
by Tommy Rancel on Jul 18, 2010 8:00 PM EDT
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After a half-inning of play, it seemed the Rays were on their way to a series victory against the Yankees in New York. Unfortunately for us, there were eight more innings to be played. As quickly as Tampa Bay jumped out to a 3-0 lead, David Price nearly handed it all back as he allowed two runs in the bottom half of the first. It would be the beginning of what ended up as Price's worst start of the season.
Price would settle down for a few innings before imploding in the fifth. He allowed a run on a walk, wild pitch, and a single, before getting two outs with the game at a manageable 4-3 score. With two outs, he gave up a walk, single and a double that pushed three more runs across the plate - giving the Yankees a 7-3 lead, and effectively ending the game.
In all, Price allowed seven runs on seven hits and three walks. He struck out just three batters and used 96 pitches in 5 innings. While Price's start was a disappointment, the offensive output was equally as disappointing.
Following the three-run home run by Carlos Pena in the first, the Rays scored just two more runs - both in mop-up time. It looked like the Rays would get to Yankees' starter Andy Pettitte, but his day was cut short after just 2.1 innings due to a strained groin. At the time of his exit, the Rays had already amassed six hits and two walks.
The biggest instance of fail came immediately following Pettitte's injury. David Robertson completed a walk to load the bases with just one out. Stop me if you heard this one, but after working the count in his favor, Sean Rodriguez popped to shallow left field; failing to advancing any runners. This is not an indictment of Rodriguez, rather the Rays offense with runners in scoring position lately. B.J. Upton followed with a long fly ball to complete the GTMI fail. Who knows that happens if either gets a hit.
What we do know is just two of the teams' 12 hits came with runners in scoring position. Overall, they left 12 men on base. Meanwhile, the Yankees had six hits with RISP and left just six on base - or half the amount of stranded Rays.
Again, the small solace is Boston also lost - keeping the Rays 3.5 ahead of the Red Sox. That said, Tampa Bay lost a game on the Yankees and now sit three back. In many ways, it feels like we could've been enjoying a sweep instead of a series loss.
On to Baltimore, where anything less than two of three is unacceptable.
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The downsides of platooning...
We had a lineup built to hit left Andy Pettitte, but he goes out and we’re stuck with a lineup full of guys who can’t RHP. Can’t just swap those guys out cause then we have nobody to replace injuries. It’s definitely a weakness in our ever changing lineup approach.
Bitter sweet...
Gives the Yankee’s more motivation to go get a pitcher (Oswalt).
by Jeffrey Borbas on Jul 18, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
But he's expected to make his next start still
4-5 weeks for Pettitte could be HUGE-Yankees have 0 depth
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Talk about a double-edged sword win
Pettite leaving early helped them win, but now it may cost them more down the road
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I love how Maddon uses Jaso to pinch-hit in the 8th when the game was out of reach. Why not do that four innings earlier?
I’m a very big Joe fan, but decisions like that leave me baffled.
Brignac
Brignac hits 2 homers and his reward is a benching. Way to go Joe Madman.
That wasn't a bad move against one of the best lefties in the league.
When he went down, however, it was unacceptable to leave him out – as well as Jaso and Joyce. Kapler got the homer later in the game to ease some of the criticism but he shouldn’t have been left in for the middle innings against righty relievers.
Bartlett>Brignac, especially against lefties
by benderbrodriguez on Jul 18, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Briggy didn't exactly crush those 2HRs either
Wall-scrapers, and he still has that upper-cut swing
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
1st HR was nice, the 2nd HR had an enormous upper-cut
When he hit that second HR, I was actually pissed because I knew it would give him a false sense of accomplishment. It may have taught him he can get away with that upper-cut swing.
Oh yeah, for sure, he needed it on that swing
I just don’t want it to translate into the uppercut on pitches at the belt.
Ya I was pissed too?!?
Cukoo
Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428
Sorry, should've said bitter sweet
Nice to see the homerun and I was pumped when he hit it. I just don’t want to see an upper-cut going forward. The first homerun was a beautiful swing, and I’d want to see more of that.
Kudos Girardi
Girardi was wise to bring in Robertson when he did to put out the fire. Robertson is one of the Yanks better relivers. In a similar moment earlier this year when Neimann went down to injury, Maddon opted for the last man out of the pen Mike Ekstrom and the game quickly got away
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 18, 2010 9:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Having burned Mosley/Gaudin made his decision really easy
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
This, I doubt he uses Robertson there if Gaudin and Mosley aren't burned
Who else did he have to use. Robertson was the one most likely to give them innings at that point.
He still had Park and Logan as lower leverage relievers
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 18, 2010 9:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, but it made his decision really easy
That’s what I’m saying
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Platoon switches
Given that the Yanks only lefty in the pen was Logan, I would have hit Joyce for Kapler immediately. I would have left Shopp in bc it was too early to go to your backup catcher, despite the wide offensive gap. Reid/Bartlett could go either way. If a RHSP went down early I would stay the course bc there would be more PA VS RHP to come after the leftys appearance.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 18, 2010 9:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'd keep Shoppach in too
Because I don’t like changing a C on the SP early in the game
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The game was lost in the 5th
When Bartlett, Kapler and Shoppach (reached on a passed third strike, but same idea) were allowed to bat vs. Park. Play to win now. If everyone in the world gets hurt 12 innings later, fine, play Sonnanstine at second base.
Platoons are fine, as long as you’re aggressive about in-game moves. This is the EXACT same thing as “saving” Soriano for later and using Cormier instead.
by Jonah Keri on Jul 18, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
With the game where it was, letting Kapler and Shoppach bat was definitely a bad idea.
Bartlett I can let slide, though he didn’t exactly come through in that instance.
I agree with this
Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428
Unmentioned big play in the game
Posada’s 2R Double to LF. If we have CC instead of Kapler out there-inning ends 5-3, now Joyce would’ve been in LF normally to replace Kapler, I dunno if he could’ve caught it also, but that was huge
PIZZA?!?
I don't know if CC catches that either
He usually isn’t great about getting balls that will hit the wall
Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428
I refer to the ball hit toward LCF
Not the Cano triple, since CC did the same thing as Kapler & missed it
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 19, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Maddon fell asleep this series, and the usual mundane Girardi out managed him
—Not using Soriano to get Swisher on Friday
- Waiting till the game was basically over to PH in poor match up situations
Also, put BenZo at leadoff v RGP and LHP
BJ struck out x today, yet i still don’t mind him in the hole
BenZo seems so much more productive as leadoff rather than in the middle of the line up. I’m pretty sure his power is going to be more single digit like
Zobrist
Hitting .283 on the season coming into today but .250 with RISP. His best skill is getting on base and yet he’s often put into the position of run producer vs RHP and that’s his worst skill so far this season.
by Jason Collette on Jul 18, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
yep--btw heard you on the radio the other day--nice job
the Babe don’t know shit
i called that day myself, rebuking the guy who wants to trade CC for Fielder
That radio day sounds intriguing
And very painful to listen to
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean LHP
Zobrist’s poor middle-of-the-order production is from a change in his swing mechanics. He lost that great follow through that generated all that power.
PIZZA?!?
by Transplanted on Jul 18, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya I dont know whats with him this year
No power and No clutch hits.
Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428
According to my video game it is
I certainly don’t believe clutch hitting is a skill, but I do believe that adapting to the situation is a skill. For instance, I think some players are willing to shorten their swing with two strikes or a man on 3rd and <2 outs, while other players are unwilling to do that. Early in the game it doesn’t necessarily matter, assuming you are trading increasing the chance of 1 run while decreasing the chance of multiple runs by changing approach, but there are certainly times where it would matter.
By the way, not trying to indite Zobrist, I think he plays very hard and always tries to do what is best for the team.
Went to the game
There was too much fail to assign to one single person, but Joe Maddon sticking by a LH-heavy hitting lineup after Pettite left in the 3rd was the most unforgivable of anything that happened. Besides batting BJ leadoff, but that’s on Maddon, too.
Among all the failures so far this season, I think this one has to take the cake
We go up against a tough lefty in Pettitte and light him up, and he exits the game early. His replacement, David “Ray-Slayer” Robertson comes in and does his best Scott Kazmir impression, actually looking vulnerable for once, and we fail to do a thing against him. Then we get Chan-Ho Park. I actually laughed when he came in, and what did he do? He dropped the Rays hitters like flies! Chan-Ho friggin Park! To see him get the win in that game, even if pitching wins mean effectively nothing, is just embarrassing.
But to tell the truth, I knew it was over right as soon as we failed yet again to capitalize on a bases loaded, less than three out situation early on. It just had the feeling of one of those days when we’d leave 8465864534.7 guys on base, and whaddya know…
About the only positive thing I can say is that we have the Orioles next, and we don’t have to face Matusz. We’d better backhand them like a $2 ho.
In my day lots of messy tissues over her
by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
"On to Baltimore, where anything less than two of three is unacceptable."
I would argue anything less than three of three is unacceptable.
There’s bad teams, then there’s the 29-62 Orioles.
Two awful losses this series...
We’re at 4-4 with the Yanks with 10 left (6 at home). If we can take 6 of 10 that’d be big (anymore would be great). The Sox are floundering right now. With Boston out west it could get worse, and maybe the Halos will help their boy Joe out. I’m liking the way the Wild Card is looking right now.
Even though it was a tough series loss to take, in 2 games that were very winnable and one where we thumped them..
On a macroscale, we lost a series at NY while they were the #1 team in baseball, didn’t get swept, and as long as we can return the favor or do better to them at home, it’s ok. I’d rather not flip out too much about losing a road series to a tough team, despite all the missed opportunities.
Longo! (Ah-a-ah!) Fighter of the Upton! (Ah-a-ah!) Champion of the Rays! He's the master of batting and defense for everyone!
We lost our only series at home v them this season, and last year when they still counted
i don’t think we fared much better
Yes, we lost the second series of the year
obviously last year is what I’m talking about as well. If you’re going to troll, at least make it something you can defend. Last year doesn’t mean shit, this is 2010.
Longo! (Ah-a-ah!) Fighter of the Upton! (Ah-a-ah!) Champion of the Rays! He's the master of batting and defense for everyone!
If you’re going to troll, at least make it something you can defend.
steinfan1 at Pinstripe Ally before the series:
weve lost 4 of 6 agianst them this year… no way we can win thi series.
replies to himself:
4 of 6 at home…
we don't match up well v them
their SH give us fits, and we can’t play long ball against them
also our pitchers, Shields, Davius and Niemann are more FB rather than GB pitchers
And having only that POS Choate as our only LHP in the pen is troubling
why i don't like our odds v them
even the games we won have not been well pitched except Price at home, so getting into a slugfest with the Yanks and our offense are not the odds i’d look for
I think the Yankees could be in trouble...
without Pettite for 5 or 6 starts. The Ray are three games out of first, one less than when we went up there. The Rays are 3.5 games up in the Wild Card. There is no reason to be in panic mode.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 19, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I also thing that, they should be better than us, Boston was probably better on paper in 08
but we showed that anything can happen in a 7 game series. We just need to get to that point and then hope for the best.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I like what you did with that "thing"
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 19, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Also...
I thing that we are a lot better on paper than we’ve shown to be, and our results have been excellent so far.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 19, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
OMG the Yankees are better than us??!??!?!?!!
If only someone had been saying this all along
by ChiBurbRaysFan on Jul 19, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Pettitte hurt, they're worried about Hughes innings, Burnett showing that having patience beats him bad, and no real candidate to step into the rotation
It forces them to make a move to sacrifice long term for short term. Even if they give up a no-name spect for a Ben Sheets type, they’re giving up something out of desperation.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
We rolled them Saturday.
We blew a lead against them on Frisady, and we could have won yesterday with more timely hitting. I’d say we matchup at least evenly with them. In fact on the year they’ve outscored us 51-49 in the 8 games. That includes a 10-0 blowout win by them. I’d say we’re pretty even.
and they rolled us yesterday
let’s not forget the “sweep” in NY came against the likes of some guys now at SWB
The 51-49 edge is slim and relatively meaningless.
I feel like you’re banging the drum to make noise, not to provide meaningful entertainment (read as meaningful discourse).
except for Price our four starters rank in the top 15 in HR allowed in the AL
call it what you like—that ain’t good against the NYY
I agree that we don't match up well against NYY
I was just messing with you a bit. It hurts us more when we play in New York too because of their abundance of LHH and SH.
Oh fuck off, you act like you're the only one that's been saying that
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope we can do some damage over the next six because we have a really tough 11 game homestand coming up.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 19, 2010 9:21 AM EDT reply actions
4 v DET not included i hope--check their road record which includes
being swept in CLE by a not very good Indians team
Yesterday's game was disappointing.
Honestly we should have won it. But it didn’t happen. Our man needs to go get another bat before the trade deadline.
Friday's game was infinitely more disappointing than yesterday to me.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
I think Sunday was more disappointing
It seems like karma always nails us when we get tons of men on base in the early innings and don’t drive them in. When I see the bases loaded 1 out at 3-2 and we don’t score, it seems to always lead to a loss.
Then after the Yanks tie it. we immediately get a chance to grab the lead back with Crawford at 3rd and 1 out and Pena strikes out. I actually told my uncle I thought the game was over at that point.
Maybe our pitchers get frustrated after seeing all those wasted opportunities or whatever, but it is never good.
Can someone fill me in on why Kapler was playing left in one of our biggest games of the year??
Go Gators!!
by matthan on Jul 19, 2010 10:01 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
No idea.
I guess give CC the off day in the field but I’d rather rest him against the O’s. We’re coming off the AS break anyway. I know he participated, but still…
I'd rather his "rest" DH days come at home so he can stay off the turf.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jul 19, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Another big advantage of being at home besides the turf is the familiarity
I think part of the reason Kapler didn’t catch that ball is because he mistimed his jump because he thought he was closer to the wall. With CC’s speed, he could have assessed where he was on the field sooner and probably made that catch. Since Kapler is used to playing at the Trop, that may not have happened at home (even if it was LF instead of RF). Just my opinion of course…
Maddon is showing no sense of urgency.
I understand trying to keep the team on an even keel, but at some point you have to take the whip to the horse. That time is really now. The front office is doing it with their all in statements. Other teams consistently do it. The Rays need to do it. Maddon needs to show that winning these games are important. That we are actuall giving 100% to win that particular game. Maddon’s attitude has to filter down through the players.
I’m not talking about rah rah speaches. I’m talking about in game moves. Pitching Soriano instead of Cormier. Playing Crawford instead of Kapler.
Go Gators!!
Speaches reminds me of Peaches and her wonderful allure
Joe said on multiple occasions that he thinks the reason we flamed out down the stretch was due to having to play catch-up through the middle of the season by “whipping the horse.” He’s set out to change that this year and is going to sink or swim based on that philosophy.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It is really ridiculous
It is one thing to yell at your players, and another thing to play your best players and put your team in the best position to win every single game.
Maddon can be so set in his ways. Are you really serious about Crawford sitting against the Yankees when we are playing the freaking O’s the next day? It just seems the only person on this planet that doesn’t think that game was huge was Joe Maddon.
Go Gators!!
Perhaps it is part of sending a message to the team
Taking the pressure off by truly showing how little he cares if we beat them or not (I’m not saying it’s right or wrong). It’s a good point, obviously you’d love to take a series from the Yanks, but sweeping Baltimore would be even more important because we wouldn’t have to burn out the team to do it. It’s frustrating to watch at the micro level, but you must admit that we’ve really avoided the injury bug again this year and I’m sure that only helps.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Another fear is whether this team can hit the next gear come October
At some point you have to stop treating every game like it is a game in Spring Training.
I’m sure that atittude helps a little in regards to injury. Our guys do get their share of rest. But the body doesn’t know whether it is resting against the Yankees or the Orioles. In other words, the same of the rest could have been achieved if we sat against the O’s.
Go Gators!!
Well, and me
It really wasn’t that huge. It’s 3 games, in mid-July, out of 162. Yes, it’s against the Yankees. Yes, there was potential psychological value in pulling within one game (or taking the lead had the Rays not blown Friday’s game). But stepping back and looking at the big picture, a sweep in the Rays’ favor would not have been a decisive blow, and a sweep by the Yankees would not have ruined the rest of the season.
We, as fans, consistently make series into larger-than-life “must win” “crucial” “turning points” when they really are not. I still think Maddon should manage to win, and on that point I agree with you wholeheartedly, but not because these games were “huge” — he should always manage to win. That’s the reason they play the games.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jul 19, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
The importance of the game really shouldn’t matter unless we are really talking about over-usage. Soriano not pitching Friday just smelled like playing not to win.
Go Gators!!
Soriano not pitching on Friday
Struck me as overcautiousness more than anything else. He wanted to hold back Soriano to finish off the game if we took the lead. I suppose he was afraid of the Rays scoring 1 in the 14th inning and then having to rely on the likes of Lance Cormier to protect that lead. Instead, he ended up relying on the bullpen’s lesser lights to protect the tie, which worked in the predictable fashion.
by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Jul 19, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If we were the home team he would have pitched.
That’s one time where Joe goes with the conventional move and it didn’t work out. If you’re home you don’t mind using your closer in the top of the 9th of a tie game. When you’re away, you’d prefer to have the lead to bring him in.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but you don't want to lose a game not having brought in your best pitcher
You could debate all day whether to bring in your closer in a tie game when you’re the away team though. I used to prefer saving the closer, but against the Yankees, I would rather have brought in Soriano. Then we could take our chances in throwing someone else in for the save. Can’t have a save opportunity to blow if we never get the chance…
I'm just saying that that is the conventional move and Joe went with it
People jump down his throat for not “playing by the book” and when he does follow convention it becomes a results-oriented pissparade.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually disagree about that move being conventional
My guess is that the bulk of managers would have put in their closer in that situation.
But I do agree that he was trying to ‘play by the book’. I just think most managers would have gone against the book in that spot precisely because of the game and the leverage.
Go Gators!!
Sooo granular, I'd love to take a look at this, but the data compiling would be a real bitch
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
There is no way that bringing in the worst reliever on the team in that situation is conventional
Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428
Were there any other options?
Like I said I went from confidence to incredulity to anger to sadness to pain from punching the bar. I wanted to throw up when Corms was coming in.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Soriano?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jul 19, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean besides Soriano
If you’re going by the book and using anyone, but your closer.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
He either should have left Wheeler in or brought in Soriano.
There is no reasoning that can justify bringing in Cormier.
Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428
Leaving Wheeler in was my opinion too
He looked good, and has been effective against lefties against lefties, especially when compared to Cormier.
Yea, not much difference between he and Sonny at this pt
But I would even prefer to leave Wheeler in. Why? Wheeler is a fly ball pitcher with a very low BA against. The inflated risk is the long ball which means as much as a single at that point. As a GBer Cormier is more likely to allow a successful AB. Cormiers 2 year Battin Avg against (give batted ball styles and context of situation I think its warranted) vs lefties is .267, Wheeler’s is .241. Cormier also has the higher walk rate. Plus it saves a bullet in the gun.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 19, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your general point, but I don't think using BAA for these samples is all that relevant.
Just stick to the fact that Cormier in general will allow more BAA than Wheeler due to batted ball data.
Sure
Thats why I posted the reason for the BA #. Slugging probably tells a different story but is inconsequential.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 19, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Slugging probably tells a different story but is inconsequential.
Agreed.
I just think the theoretial holds more weight than that limited sample of ABs and is bad practice.
Well said, I can agree with everything here
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think Cormier is bad
And I don’t trust him. I couldn’t believe he took out Wheeler (after a good ab against Jeter) for Cormier.
I was really uninspired by that move. I am a little afraid Joe goes small sample size in some of these specific 1v1 match-ups.
Thats my issue
Its all extremely high leverage at that point. I was okay with Choate for the lefites but once there were 2 on, thats as high leverage as its going to get. There is a better chance of Cormier surviving a fresh inning than putting out that fire. We needed Soriano there.
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by FreeZorilla on Jul 19, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I was watching that in a bar packed with Yankee fans and you could see the writing on the wall when Corms came in
That was baffling to me.
The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.
Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jul 19, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
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