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Around SBN: Dog Football! Which Breeds Are Best Suited For The Gridiron?

David Price Wins. Matt Garza Saves. Rays Sweep Red Sox At Trop

When people look at this series, many will allude to the fact that the Rays faced their Boston rivals at their weakest point. This is true, however, the games count the same. Most of us would've been happy with taking two out of three from the Red Sox; we'll gladly accept the three game sweep.

As far as match-ups go, you'd be hard pressed to find stranger pairing than Tim Wakefield and David Price. Wakefield, the 43 year-old right hander, throws a knuckleball that barely reaches the upper-60s in velocity. Price, on the other hand (literally), is a fireballing lefty who is 19 years his junior.

Tonight, the results were just as different.

Star-divide

Wakefield lasted 5.2 innings - allowing six earned runs on four hits and six walks. He also threw two wild pitches while striking out three.

Offensively, the Rays had just five hits, but took advantage of six walks, two errors, two wild pitches, and a passed ball. The night didn't start well as the team stranded Sean Rodriguez at third base and no outs, however, three of the team's five hits came with runners in scoring position - including one off the bat of Carl Crawford on the 12th pitch of his sixth inning at-bat against Dustin Richardson.

One hit that did not come with RISP was a solo home run from Evan Longoria. It was Longo's first home run in 78 at-bats, and it hit off the D-ring of the catwalk, some 442 feet away from home plate. Blasted.

On a night when the Rays needed to rest key members of their bullpen, Price delivered going 7.2 innings - allowing just two runs on eight hits and one walk. He struck out 10 batters while using 111 pitches including 83 for strikes. That's a 75% strike rate! As impressive as all the K's were, he walked just one hitter.

The anti-Wakefield, Price dominated this evening with a mid-to-upper 90s fastball. He threw 100 fastballs on the night with 78 falling for strikes. He induced a ridiculous 19 whiffs on the fastball after entering the game with a 9.1% swing strike rate on the pitch this season.

Continuing the strange match-ups, this game saw Jonathan Papelbon throw a scoreless seventh inning for Boston, while Rays' starter Matt Garza was called on to close the game. With Rafael Soriano and Joaquin Benoit extended in the past few days, Joe Maddon was looking for some bullpen help. After his early exit from Monday's game in which he threw 84 pitches in three innings, Garza was available in relief.  With one out in the ninth inning and a runner on first, the bullpen phone rang for Garza.

Matt made it interesting. After getting the second out of the inning, he allowed his inherited runner to score on a double and followed that with a walk of David Ortiz. With our hearts in our stomachs, he got Kevin Youkilis out on a flyball to B.J. Upton to end the game and complete the sweep. Instead of throwing his norm side session between starts, Garza threw 20 pitches en route to his first career save.

Again, despite the names in the lineup, the uniform still said Boston. The Rays entered this series in third place, a half-game behind the Red Sox. They end it in second place with a 2.5 game lead on their rivals.

By any means necessary...

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DP is awesome

This is the pitcher we all envisioned he’d eventually be when the Rays drafted him. He’s become great before even I thought he would.

Hello.

by killa3312 on Jul 8, 2010 1:06 AM EDT reply actions  

I would have liked to see more other pitches last night

He was pumping his fastball all the time…but he was also dominating with it, so I can’t really nitpick. A 19% whiff rate is insane.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jul 8, 2010 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Normally I'd be upset with excessive fastball use

But all of them but Mike Cameron looked completely overmatched last night so go with what works.

by Jason Collette on Jul 8, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to nitpick, but...

you should change “elude” to “allude” in the first sentence.

I don’t get the fascination people have with Joyce. Is it his mediocre play in Durham? Wowing people with his .295 avg? His mediocre power at age 26? Is it people just praying he’s good because our offense is so poor and we traded Edwin away for him?

by pudieron89 on Jul 8, 2010 1:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Except it's not a grammar error,

it’s an issue of using a word correctly. Looks like I eluded the trolling that you were alluding to. See what I did there?

I don’t get the fascination people have with Joyce. Is it his mediocre play in Durham? Wowing people with his .295 avg? His mediocre power at age 26? Is it people just praying he’s good because our offense is so poor and we traded Edwin away for him?

by pudieron89 on Jul 8, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess, but I always took grammar to be more associated with sentence structure and punctuation.

I don’t get the fascination people have with Joyce. Is it his mediocre play in Durham? Wowing people with his .295 avg? His mediocre power at age 26? Is it people just praying he’s good because our offense is so poor and we traded Edwin away for him?

by pudieron89 on Jul 8, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see what you did there.

I don’t get the fascination people have with Joyce. Is it his mediocre play in Durham? Wowing people with his .295 avg? His mediocre power at age 26? Is it people just praying he’s good because our offense is so poor and we traded Edwin away for him?

by pudieron89 on Jul 8, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

There's also "end the came" in the third-to-last paragraph

[cue disapproving tongue-clicks]

In my day lots of messy tissues over her

by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT

by IntrepidX on Jul 8, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

If nothing else, this series showed me that Boston has a pretty deep team

I underestimated their replacement players. Well, except for Romero.

In my day lots of messy tissues over her

by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT

by IntrepidX on Jul 8, 2010 2:23 AM EDT reply actions  

They're over-performing a bit right now

And we’re under-performing-kinda balances itself out.

Patterson won’t have many series where he gets 4 XBHs series including 2HRs, or Beltre can’t maintain his hitting(he did a good job keeping him in check).

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jul 8, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sometimes you take guys like Rafi and Benoit for granted.

Then a game like this comes along and your thinking. They can go 5 strait days.

by Karandrs on Jul 8, 2010 2:40 AM EDT reply actions  

SPELLING POLICE

Voodoo Five - South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
The Toughest Blog in America

by Jamie DeVriend on Jul 8, 2010 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

harumph

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 8, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maddon got way too cute in the 9th

Up 3 with no one on and two outs to go, there is no reason Balfour can’t face the lefty Drew. 1.95 FIP vs LHB in 2010. 3.88 2009, 1.24 in 2008. Its not an issue I have with Choate, but once you shoot a bullet you can;t go back, and you never know how over-pumped Garza could be coming out of the pen for the first time in years.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jul 8, 2010 6:38 AM EDT reply actions  

Yea I didn't understand that either. The worst case scenario Balfour gives up a solo shot to Drew and moves on.

Could’ve ended this game using just two pitchers, but I guess this makes Balfour available for tonight.

www.draysbay.com, www.bloombergsports.mlblogs.com, Twitter @trancel

by Tommy Rancel on Jul 8, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Paplebon?

I didn’t have the sound on while watching the 7th. Why was Paplebon in the game at that point?

by TallMatt on Jul 8, 2010 8:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Reasons I cam up with

1) Obviously he needed work, and there was no guarantee of the 9th
2) Since there was no save opp, Francona elected to use him against the middle of the order (4-6) as opposed to the bottom in the eighth.
3) With the Sox big bats coming up, he wanted to keep the game as tight as possible.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jul 8, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly

Papelbon’s dad lives/works at the Trop or somewhere in the area.

I thought it was to let his father see him pitch, given that he would not need to save the game at that point.

by Elasticman on Jul 8, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Papelbon's father does work at the Trop

But pretty sure he doesn’t live there. (sorry, couldn’t resist)

by sstamour on Jul 8, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just out of curiosity

What the hell is going on with pitching anyway? 30 qualifying pitchers have an ERA of 3.02 or lower. That just seems insane to me. I realize runs are down a bit overall, but is it really just that runs are down at the top? Not only is there a ton of dominant pitching, but other than a few random old farts thrown in there (Tim Hudson, Cliff Lee), the vast majority of the guys are 27 and younger.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jul 8, 2010 8:16 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd be more interested in knowing how many of these guys are in the AL. The NL doesn't seem to have a problem generating pitchers with Sub-3 ERAs.

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would have to assume this at least plays a part

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because steroids have been out of the game for going on 5 years now.

Why did it all of a sudden change this year? I still think the juice helps pitchers a lot more than hitters.

by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, I am saying that steroids are being weeded out of the game

It is taking a little while for it to get out of the league, but it is now getting to the point where whoever may still be in violation is inconsequential. If you look at the chart I posted, an awful lot of violators were caught as recently as 2008. It seems to have stabilized now for the last two years. Some of those names on the list of violators are also retiring or just leaving the game now that they aren’t roided up, thus being replaced with non-roid players.

by terp12 on Jul 8, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe they are just ahead of the testers.

That’s been the case in every olympic sport for years.

by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be, but I think steroids in both MLB and the Olympics is far less than it used to be.

I remember the German Women’s Swim Team back in 1976, they looked like Mark McGuire. I think baseball is changing and adapting to life after roids. It is a better game without them. Thank god it is getting back to the game I knew and loved as a kid. I actually stopped following baseball in the mid 90’s until about 2004. Each year since 2005 seems to be getting better.

by terp12 on Jul 8, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not torn at all, believe me your senses are heightened when taking steroids.

I had to take some a couple of times for bad cases of poison ivy. I felt like a freakin animal. I wanted to exercise, the energy boost is tremendous, and everything seems sharper. I don’t doubt a bit that seeing and hitting a ball would be greatly improved. Not to mention strength conditioning. I am glad I didn’t have to take them for long, as my personality was different by the end of the week. I was very short tempered which is not me. I can’t imagine how long term steroid use, especially in higher doses, would effect a human.

by terp12 on Jul 8, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree with roids

but also the increased emphasis on defense the last couple years.

Throw in all those young stud pitchers.

by TallMatt on Jul 8, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Beat me to it

I was just writing a post to this.

There has been an increased emphasis on defense which I think is directly related to the steriod policy. Rays were ahead of the curve. Rest of the teams are catching up

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

No more 35 YO COF turning outs in to 2Bs.

by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

It cuts both ways, as well

Not only do you have guys robbing outs, but chances are they’re not as good of a hitter so they are an easier out themselves.

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also wonder how long the tail on expansion is.

How long does the pitching get better after an expansion period?

by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just read an article this morning that I am trying to find about this subject

Bobby Cox and Chipper Jones were discussing how the league has now caught up from the expansion. Chipper said that for a few years teams had pitchers that should have still been in the minors on their major league roster. He said that problem combined with the steroid era was cause for gaudy batting numbers. This is paraphrased from what I remember in the article. I will post it if I can find the damn thing.

by terp12 on Jul 8, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with your second two points.

Team defenses are much better with the emphasis on young players that can play the field instead of big old boppers clinging to their bats.

by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love Price dominating with his FB. When you can locate it at 95+ why not?

Joe Magrane used to say, especially to Garza, keep throwing the 4 seamer till the batters tell you to stop’

by sternfan1 on Jul 8, 2010 8:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Great series sweep, but 5 hits last night. Some good approaches, but also some bad ones

Brignac needs work and i’d like to see a better approach for S-Rod.
Zobrist really won the game with that 2-out walk, stole 2B and scored on CC single—huge run

by sternfan1 on Jul 8, 2010 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

when you win anything is fine

Not many SP are going to yirld 6 BB in 5 IP except Wake

by sternfan1 on Jul 8, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Instead they will leave pitches in the zone

I have no problems with the Rays approach last night

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 8, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rays have walked 6 or more times in a game 19 times this season.

Obviously those aren’t all from SPers, but that number actually surprised me….that’s a lot of baserunners.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jul 8, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

^^ Does not include IBBs

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jul 8, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

They were no hit in one of those games

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wakefield is a different animal

Granted the offense is still hit or miss, but the knuckleball is so unique it’s hard to ask for them to come out and get 12 hits off of him.

www.draysbay.com, www.bloombergsports.mlblogs.com, Twitter @trancel

by Tommy Rancel on Jul 8, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

They got the hits with RISP, which is when it counts.

I also did not mind the low number of hits. The Rays had plenty of baserunners and cashed in when they needed to.

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

This

Wakefield always has really low BABIPs

by benderbrodriguez on Jul 8, 2010 9:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's fine if the hits come at the right time

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reid has really been struggling at the plate for the last month or so

About a .500 OPS over that time

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

FTFY

those that live to see him someday as a high BA, high OBP player are in for a shock

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

DON'T FUCK WITH MY BLACK ASS

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

He'll be a pretty high BA guy.

I’d expect him to be in the .280-.300 range most years.

by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

why?

he’s a good contact hitter and he’s got pretty average speed, should have a BABIP greater than .300 once he’s playing most days.

I don’t get the fascination people have with Joyce. Is it his mediocre play in Durham? Wowing people with his .295 avg? His mediocre power at age 26? Is it people just praying he’s good because our offense is so poor and we traded Edwin away for him?

by pudieron89 on Jul 8, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone, anywhere has EVER said that

He’s a Kalil Greene/Stephen Drew/JJ Hardy type that will give you a very nice glove and some pop from a premium defensive position. He’s quite the asset.

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

What?

He only sat like once or twice a week over most of the stretch. Just recently after he had been struggling at the plate for 3+ weeks has he been benched regularly.

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

OT: I'll jump start the preview thread on the Indians

series. DO NOT take this team lightly. DOn’t be fooled by their over all year stats. They have been mashing the ball lately, especially with LaPorta and Santana being recalled.
Losing Choo has hurt, but somehow this non-descript player named Jayson Nix has turned into King Kong. Tonight’s match up needs Rays hitters to be patient and not roll over Westbrook’s sinker. Same for tomorrow v Carmona. Three of four is a must here. I think on Sunday that’ll leave us one game behind the Yankees heading into next week’s showdown at the stadium

Go Rays

by sternfan1 on Jul 8, 2010 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the report, but you have no idea what the standings will look like in half a week.

Santana looks like a beast and nice to see that former UF athletes can go on to have some success in their sport at the ML level in LaPorta. I wouldn’t expect Nix to continue to his a dinger a game.

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

IBB Jayson Nix in every at bat

It is the only way we’ll win.

Seriously, most disturbing is the Indians are 12-3 vs the Rays when Westbrook pitches with a 3.50 ERA and 1.23 WHIP. It’s Jake Westbrook!

by Jason Collette on Jul 8, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Somewhat sadly, Jake has only faced Crawford, Pena, Bartlett, Upton and Zobrist.

718 OPS combined.

Jayson Nix is seriously hot though, and Carlos Santana is godlike. LaPorta has missed the past two games after a head contusion. Yesterday he was held out for precautionary reasons and the same might be true today.

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 8, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which Fortune 500 company will you choose to work for?

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you just trolling?

UCF is a pretty good school depending on what you’re going for. It’s grown to the eigth (last I heard) largest university in the country and second biggest in the state behind UF. They’ve gotta be doing something right.

by firemangreg on Jul 8, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enrollment does not equal good school

The university of Phoenix is one of the largest schools in the nation in terms of enrollment. It sucks. I’m not saying UCF sucks, just that enrollment numbers are not a valid way of judging schools.

Sandy Kazmir went to UCF, by the way.

by RaysTheRoof on Jul 8, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enrollment was their way to get noticed, open the floodgates, build up the name

They’re turning what used to be a small, unheard of school into a degree that means something.

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enrollment doesn't matter if you're compare apples to oranges

University of Phoenix is an online school and should not be compared to accredited universities in terms in enrollment. U of Phoenix is not even considered when ranking schools based on enrollment even though they have well over 100k enrolled.

Oh, and you never said UCF sucks you just said that it’s not “real” and nobody cares about it. I still don’t even know what that is supposed to mean.

3.8 avg GPA and 1225 avg SAT for incoming freshmen. According to U.S. News they are doing something right also — link

This has gotten too off topic so I’ll stop feeding the troll.

by Travis Lee on Jul 8, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's also this

http://www.popcrunch.com/hottest-student-bodies-2009-the-50-best-colleges-ranked-by-looks-30-21/

We’re 27th if you want to skip ahead, but why would you?

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow that's insane.

When I was there in 2006 it was 7th or 8th, didn’t realize they’d grown that much.

by firemangreg on Jul 9, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Daunte makes one QB that wasn't utter garbage, UF can't say that. Same with our receivers.

Mike Sims-Walker + B-Marsh > Jaquez, and every other stiff. Ike Hilliard is your best NFL WR.

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um, Cris Collinsworth?

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know who that is, by choice

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did make 3 pro bowls and had 4x1,000 yard seasons, back when both of these accomplishments actually meant something.

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who?

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had some success

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

His stache was trash

but not anymore

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only reason he had any success was because Aikman's arm opened up the running game for him

In my day lots of messy tissues over her

by sternfan1 on Jun 18, 2010 6:30 AM PDT

by IntrepidX on Jul 8, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Al Horford

Mareese Speights was ROTY. Their b-ball players do extremely well

Sonny's Baby Mamas - http://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/16590999556
http://twitter.com/jasoncollette/status/16590980428

by Sveet on Jul 8, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

They should with all the money Billy D pays them to go there

Their offensive football players are trash, on defense they churn out FBGs like none other.

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Side Sessions

I’m surprised more teams don’t use some of their starters out of the bullben on days that they are scheduled to throw a side session, though if they were going to do it, it would make sense if they did it in a day after a night game.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jul 8, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

There are several problems with this idea

First, starting pitchers typically have longer warm-up routines then relievers, so they have to get ready earlier. We saw Garza warming up while Price was still in the game during the top of the 8th. Soriano on the other hand, typically warms up during the half inning prior to his entrance.

Second, saving a starter’s side session for an appearance from the bullpen implies that you pretty much have to use him there for that game. If you don’t use him, you have to push the side session back and realistically, the next start back as well to give the pitcher time to recover.

Third, while starters typically will perform better as relievers, I would believe that usage in this way, where he’s not really a bullpen arm and is only doing this as a ‘pinch pitcher’ so to speak, would carry a similar penalty to pinch hitters, thus nullifying that advantage, or possibly even being a detriment. A starter asked to take a bullpen spot for a day instead of doing a side-session doesn’t get that couple of extra MPH on all his pitches because he’s still pitching like a guy who is going to throw 100 pitches in a couple of days.

I’m not ragging on the move mind you, the team’s best all-purpose relievers were exhausted and needed rest, and playing Garza (and using Shields the same way a couple of weeks back) are both smart moves, but it’s not something that should be used every single day. I would rather have Sonny or Cormier pitch in a long-relief scenario if they’re available. I’d rather have Choate or Wheeler in a splits scenario if they’re available. I’d rather have Balfour, Benoit, or Soriano in high-leverage situations if they’re available. But I’m OK with having a starter take over in any of those situations if the pitchers who normally handle those situations need to rest over asking a pitcher who’s accustomed to another role to do the role of someone else in that bully.

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

How would you feel if we had a hypothetical 6-man rotation?

And if one has a problem using stats to prove a point, then use your eyes.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 8, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well it would hurt the rotation, but it gives you an extra day of flexibility to use your resting starter(s) for bullpen use.

I couldn’t imagine that the extra bullpen strength could make up for the number of starts lost by sending your best pitchers out every 5 days.

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand your point, and pretty much agree

It should not be a common thing to do. The reason I mentioned a day after a night game, is because if he doesn’t get used in the game, he can still get down to the bullpen and get some work in. The other time it makes sense is in a long extra inning game. When a pitcher doesn’t get a higher amount of pitches in a game like Garza with 85 in his previous outing, I just think it would be a consideration on his side day.

On another note, I’d kind of like to see Davis skipped going into the break..but it’s probably not the best idea to use a young pitcher like Price on 3 days rest or have Garza pitch 3 games over 5-6 days.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jul 8, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

If Davis is skipped, Price would miss the all-star game because of the new rules since he'd be scheduled to start the game before.

I hope you understand how provocative and irritating a statement such as "baseball is played on the field not on paper" is. It is the kind of moronic critique that anti-sabermetric neanderthals use (along with the unfunny "mother’s basement" canard) to debunk what they do not understand.

by kericr on Jul 8, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

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