Guessing the Rays' Postseason Bullpen: Hellickson vs. McGee
Late Friday night (or early Saturday morning, however you look at it), Jeremy Hellickson was demoted to the Class-A Stone Crabs to work out of the bullpen in preparation for a stint in the Rays' bullpen. This will allow the Rays to limit his workload while still letting him contribute to the major-league team, and it should help shore up the Rays' bullpen down the stretch. At the moment, their bullpen reminds me of something out of a horror film:
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Mike Ekstrom |
Those last three names on the list disappoint me. Mike Ekstrom and Dale Thayer have proven to be decent pitchers at the Triple-A level, but they're not pitchers I want to see in a close game down the stretch in September. The same goes for Lance Cormier; I know he was effective last season, but sadly his control has evaporated this season (4.94 walks per nine) and he can't strike anyone out (3.61 strikeouts per nine). He was never a pitcher to strike out a ton of batters, but this is bad even for him. He's shown improvements in his control recently (3.18 walks per nine in August), but he's still not someone that I like to see in a game.
With September call-ups a week and a half away and the postseason a bit over on a month away, there is going to be a flurry of roster moves in the coming weeks as the Rays get their bullpen ready for the postseason.* Who are the Rays going to have in their bullpen come October? Let's take a peek.
*I understand that there's a chance the Rays won't make it to the postseason, but they have a very commanding lead on the Wild Card at the moment (5.5 games) so I'm willing to speculate. According to Cool Standings, the Rays have a 93.3% chance of making the playoffs right now. Life is good.
According to the rulebook, teams can only choose players for their playoff rosters that are on their active (25-man) roster or on the 15-day disabled list before September 1st, or are replacing an injured player on the 60-day DL. The Rays currently have an eight-man bullpen, but that's only because they're waiting to make a couple of roster moves, reinstating Wade Davis and Jeff Niemann from the disabled list for starts this upcoming week. Once Wade Davis and Jeff Niemann are reinstated, the Rays will need to demote two players to the minors. Dale Thayer and Mike Ekstrom are the obvious choices, with Andy Sonnanstine sliding back into the bullpen as the long-man.
As I see it, there are eight openings in the Rays' postseason bullpen - seven for relief pitchers and one for the Rays' fifth starter to slide out of the rotation and into the pen. Looking at the players they could potentially use, you get a situation that looks like this:
Grant Balfour is currently on the disabled list, so he'll be eligible for the postseason roster when he comes back (hopefully in mid-September). Rafael Soriano and Joaquin Benoit are obvious locks, while ROOGY Dan Wheeler and LOOGY Randy Choate are heavily used by Joe Maddon for match-ups. I believe Chad Qualls will make the final cut as the Rays' double-play-groundball expert; his command has been iffy with the Rays, but otherwise he's proven to be effective and has had more good outings than bad. That narrows it down to two competitions: Jeremy Hellickson vs. Jake McGee and Andy Sonnanstine vs. Wade Davis.
The Sonnanstine-Davis debate is a relatively low-impact decision. The long man in the bullpen typically doesn't pitch much in the postseason, as there are very few blowouts and a deep chain of talent lined up to enter a game before them. Sonnanstine has more experience pitching out of the bullpen now, but Wade Davis has better stuff and could be quite effective in short stints out of the pen. I give the edge to Davis.
As for the Hellickson-McGee debate, I think the final result is a foregone conclusion. McGee has been dominating out of the bullpen in Triple-A recently (12 strikeouts in 6.2 innings), but it seems like the Rays are committed to bringing Hellickson up to the Rays for the stretch this season. McGee has already thrown close to 100 innings this season in the minors (large increase from 30 innings last season) and since he's still working his way back from Tommy John surgery, the Rays will likely be careful with his arm. He may be called up to the major leagues when rosters expand in September, but his workload will be closely watched as he's being groomed for a role in the 2011 bullpen. Since the Rays still need to move J.P. Howell to the 60-day DL, Hellickson could spend most of September in the minors before arriving in the majors and still be added to the postseason roster.
When you put it all together, that's a bullpen I'm really excited to see in action. Sadly, it won't come together until late in September, as the Rays will likely lean heavily on September call-ups to help limit the workload of their better relievers. Rafael Soriano and Joaquin Benoit are two of the most heavily worked pitchers in the bullpen (both thrown more than 45 IP already), and the Rays will want to make sure they're in tip-top form come October. So if we suffer through a few more Dale Thayer and Mike Ekstrom appearances before the season is over, remember that at the very least, we'll have a kick-butt bullpen when it matters most.
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Why not Hellicksona and McGee as the last two?
Hellickson can be the “long man” while McGee is the second lefty. Although, with Hellickson’s abilities against lefties, you’ve got a guy who can pitch in tight spots without giving up the platoon advantage significantly.
To me, Sonny’s last on the list — he’s a decent starting option, but doesn’t gain much moving to the pen. Davis unleashed for an inning or two at a time seems like a much better option.
If the team wanted to be bold, it could scrap Choate and go with all three of McGee/Hellickson/Davis
I don't realistically think you will see a situation in which Choate is not part of the bullpen. But yeah, I agree.
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by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
by PlayOnWords on Aug 23, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to see McGee in there, but if both Helly and McGee were to be added for the postseason, then at least one of them would need to be called up soon.
I think the Rays only have one player to move to the 60-day DL. I guess we’ll know soon enough what the Rays are thinking…if they call McGee or Helly up before September, there’s still a fighting chance they could both make it.
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by Steve Slowinski on Aug 23, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Perez is back, wonder if they will call him up, have hsi shoulder flare up and put him on the 60 man
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
60 man?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
60 day
I am not draysbaying well this morning
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
You're so 22nd century
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I can 22nd century with the best of them
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Pathetic
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to see a scenario where the Rays can put away the Sox early
Allow Wade to move to the pen with Sonny sliding into the rotation. Allow Hellickson, Davis and McGee to battle it out for two spots. I’d like to see the lefty alongside either Davis or Hellickson depending on who transitions better
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We need to maintain the 6 game leas going into Friday
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Actually the last 4 names--Sonny needs to be included
But don’t forget two will be dropped when Niemann and Davis are added, and i’m sure they’ll be Eclstrom and Thayer
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Sonny is technically listed as in the rotation right now.
But true, I’m sure he’s available out of the pen these next couple days.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Aug 23, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Bill Hall says Sox are going to win it all
And when he does, the karma from this post will be the reason!!!1
j/k, but i agree with Sky that Hellickson and McGee should be the final two. If they do that, I don’t see how Jennings is a part of the post-season roster which I would like to see just for his pinch-running abilities.
by Jason Collette on Aug 23, 2010 10:36 AM EDT reply actions
I don't see how Jennings doesn't make the post season roster. If Aybar does over Jennings, I will take a dagger to my unibrow.
i'll tweet that prick right now
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by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
by PlayOnWords on Aug 23, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Any news on when Balfour starts his rehab?
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Rotowidget said he would be back on September 1. Just in time to give up some walks and dingers to the ALE.
i'll tweet that prick right now
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by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
by PlayOnWords on Aug 23, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of which barring 5 3 run shots being allowed by Balfour in Spetember
I will claim my 6 pack of Becks Light from SF1. I am inviting the top 5 SP to the Mansion De La Sternfan to the playoffs to enjoy 1 of the 6 BL with me for a road playoff game.
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
A playoff party at SF1s would be amazing. I live right by him, so its easy for me.
i'll tweet that prick right now
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by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
by PlayOnWords on Aug 23, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
You live in Strongsville?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Next town over in Villa Slampiggliacci
i'll tweet that prick right now
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by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
by PlayOnWords on Aug 23, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Under The Tuscan (Ohio) Sun
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Make it happen SF1
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He is ducking you, Z-man.
i'll tweet that prick right now
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
by PlayOnWords on Aug 23, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't make me tweet it SF!
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
We're using tweet as a verb now?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Contemplated using twitter as the verb
At least its an act, googling something is an act, tweeting something is an act, reading twitter is not tweeting, dinking around on FB is exactly that.
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
To post something on Facebook or to message someone on Facebook is to facebook fyi
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Its posting, commenting or messaging on Fbook
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
When facebook became a verb it jumped the shark
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
When jumped the shark was used in 2010 it jumped the shark
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course, jumped being a legitimate action verb and all
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
"I chuckle every time I think about that Happy Days episode" - FZ (1873-2012)
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 23, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a deeper question here is who gets babied more?
Hellickson (144 IP now) after 114 IP last year or McGee (108.2 IP) after only 30 IP last year and still technically returning from TJS?
I would like to see both get some appearances out of the Rays pen to size up their playoff potential, but I’m not sure how likely their use into October is judging by how cautious the front office is. Price was at only 124 IP when post-season play started in 2008.
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Aug 23, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
McGee is an extremely exciting possibility out of the bullpen
I don’t see any reason for him to not be there come October
Hmm
I think it’s at least as likely that the team will go with an 11-man pitching staff for the postseason (4 starters, 7 relievers), freeing up an additional bench slot for a guy like Desmond Jennings (who could fill the 2008 Fernando Perez role) or Leslie Anderson (as Gape Kapler 2.0).
With that in mind, I think there are six clear locks for the pen (Qualls, Wheeler, Choate, Balfour, Benoit and Soriano), and so the final spot comes down to a converted starter — McGee, Hellickson, or Sonnanstine. Right now you’d think that Andy would have the edge but that he could lose it if either McGee or Hellickson has a lights-out September out of the pen.
I see Wade Davis getting squeezed here. He’s not going to have a serious opportunity to pitch in relief in September and I just don’t see the team deciding to experiment with that for the first time in the playoffs.
I can't see Lez being on the post-season roster
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
because he's duplicative of Dan Johnson?
or for some other reason? Because he’s on the 40-man, he’s obliterating RHP in the minors, he’s got good secondary tools, etc.
by AndrewTorrez on Aug 23, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Seems like an awfully big stage for a Cuban to get his first MLB exposure without a full month under his belt
There has been no shortage of Durham Bulls this year who destroyed AAA RHP
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
McGee
looks like he has real stuff — a hard throwing lefty would be a great thing in the postseason pen. He was used to close last night’s Bulls win at Norfolk, and notched his first save with something like seven pitches. Now that may only have been bc the Bulls’ bullpen is really thin right now (five guys, basically, and one of them is a desiccated Brian Shouse), and perhaps Montoyo had no other options; but it could be (and I bet that) that the Rays want to see McGee in high-leverage situations in order to gauge his readiness for playoff ball.
BTW, if you haven’t seen it, we published a much longer version of my interview w/ F. Perez:
http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/fuller-transcript-with-fernando-perez/Content?oid=1616435
I'm going to FP this now
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by FreeZorilla on Aug 23, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
this is a fantastic interview
great job
by AndrewTorrez on Aug 23, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Gonna give this a shot here: HELP!! I'm having trouble getting wOBA to calculate the same as FG
I’d like to do some of my own analysis but if I can’t get wOBA right, then I might as well pack it in. I’d appreciate if anyone who knows what the hell they are doing could look this over and see if they can find where my disaster is and why I can’t match FG (though I used their data and B-Ref and got the same #’s)
Thoughts on that:
ROE, IBB, and HBP are so small that I’m satisfied omitting them for my analysis. I doubt they sway it more than .002. Especially since BJ has no IBB.
For SB/CS – I didn’t see this in the equation. This could tilt it. I used the equation from inside the book.
And thanks for looking it over
You might have your own uses for wOBA, but in general, I'd include ROE and HBP and ignore IBB.
Whatever you ignore, make sure you remove them from total PAs in the denominator, too. Otherwise you’re counting them as outs. (Just checked your spreadsheet and you’re dividing by all PAs — that’s probably why you’re undershooting.)
SB/CS is a huge part of his value.
Also, a small difference could be explained by their use of yearly weights as opposed to the static ones you use.
Thanks
Since my analysis is more trending and comparisons to the average, would you happen to have SB/CD linear weights?
I appreciate the help thus far.
I think I generally use the Tango ones from here:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/actual_wins_retrosheet_years/#4
LWTS EVENT N
1.402 Home run 161,542
1.033 Triple 40,790
0.760 Double 284,146
0.677 FC no out 5,640
0.479 Error 78,805
0.461 Single 1,113,505
0.371 Interference 842
0.333 Hit by pitch 44,712
0.308 Walk 545,972
0.273 Wild pitch 51,404
0.269 Passed ball 14,016
0.264 Balk 9,069
0.194 Stolen base 106,176
0.174 Intentional walk 52,409
0.129 Defensive indifference 1,379
0.066 Bunt 27,780
0.000 Foul error 2,967
-0.085 Sac Bunt 95,498
-0.236 Pickoff 22,648
-0.270 Out 3535825
-0.274 Strikeout 1,040,637
-0.435 Caught stealing 45,777
-0.436 Other advance 2,260
Thanks both of you.
The RBOE (5) and HBP (2) actually get things going in the right direction and get me to within .005 of FG.
I can live with that.
I may have my first fan post soon.
Tight work.
I wouldn’t worry too much about wOBA not lining up w/ FG because it’ll be nearly impossible to match up exactl with out their weightings. Which you can get, bu tit’s far more trouble than it’s worth IMO.
For a quick and easy spreadsheet, just try using this one.
It’s not exactly the same, but close enough for jazz.
http://saberlibrary.com/more/calculators/
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Aug 23, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Steve, I think that is what my calculation does, so I'm assuming this is going to be low for Upton.
My trend analysis should still be okay, I was just frustrated that I wasn’t getting the same as FG.
No problem, yeah, it should be fine.
I’m exciting to see what you come up with!
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Aug 23, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions










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