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Rays Defeat Jays 6-2, Remain Tied Atop AL East Standings


While not quite as important as the games against the Red Sox, the series against Toronto presents the Rays with another test heading into September. If the first game is any indication, it shouldn't be much of a problem. The Rays beat the Blue Jays by the score of 6-2 last nightl; a rather easy victory from start to finish.

Two players really stepped up last night to propel the team to victory: Wade Davis and Carlos Pena. In his second start off of the disabled list Davis looked as smooth as he has all year. The rookie allowed six hits and two runs while striking out three and walking none in his 7.2 innings of work. Davis probably would have gone longer - he left having thrown just 91 pitches - if it still wasn't so soon after the DL. His stuff wasn't overpowering, as evidenced by the two total swinging strikes he registered, but his command was excellent. Of the 58 four seam fastballs Davis threw, 41 (70%) went for strikes. The Blue Jays don't walk much in general, but for Davis not to give up a single free pass is a signal of very good things. If the Rays make the playoffs Davis will not be starting any games, but having an arm like his coming out of the bullpen is a fantastic weapon to lean on. Hopefully he can continue his post injury success.

With Davis holding down the pitching end, Carlos Pena took it upon himself to lift the offense. With the Rays already leading 1-0 in the first inning Pena hit a sac fly that scored Carl Crawford. After an error by Aaron Hill allowed Crawford to reach safely, and an Evan Longoria single, Pena smashed an opposite field line drive home run to give the Rays a 5-1 lead. Longoria would drive in a run with a sac fly of his own in the ninth to push the Rays to six runs, but it was Pena who provided the muscle on the evening. Since coming off the DL August 16th Pena has improved his OPS nine points (.773 to .782) and has walked 12 times in those 13 games coming into last night. As with B.J. Upton, this offense is so much different when Pena is getting on base.

  • If Carl Crawford busts it out of the gate on his first inning double, does that hit turn into a triple? It certainly looked as if he jogged out of the box. Later in the game he hit a ground ball to the second basemen and stopped running full speed about half way up the line. I'm not going to get on his case like many people do with Upton, but if the tables were turned there I'm guessing there would be more mention of the latter.
  • The home attendance was less than 12,000, the smallest of the season. As disappointing as that is for us to see, it makes it worse when Carl Crawford says ""It was a big letdown. We came out all fired up and you see that, it’s really depressing." Joe Maddon added "There’s nothing we can do about that anymore, honestly. Whether it’s winning or losing or whatever, we can’t even be concerned about that. Of course it’s disappointing, but we do appreciate the group that did come out. It’s too bad because you’re missing really good baseball." Personally I don't care about the attendance numbers as long as the team keeps on winning games this season.

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"It was a school night"

“TB has 12% unemployment”

“The drive is too far”

Bullllllllllllllllllllshit

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Aug 31, 2010 7:17 AM EDT reply actions  

why weren't you there? hip acting up?

I can't belive my grand mothers making me take Out the garbage I'm rich fuck this I'm going home I don't need this shit

by pudieron89 on Aug 31, 2010 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Leaning on the unemployment rate is an indication that someone doesnt understand at all the nuances of that statistic.

i'll tweet that prick right now
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions

by PlayOnWords on Aug 31, 2010 7:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Before you even get to the nuances, look at what that statistic is actually telling you.

In July 2010, there were 1,322,998 people in the Tampa-St. Pete-Clearwater MSA Labor Force, otherwise known as the Rays market (with some bleed over into other bedroom communities and shadow markets like Orlando). The Labor Force does not equal population. The Labor Force doesn’t even mean primary householders. It doesn’t distinguish between spouses looking for a little part time job or just trying to scrounge up extra cash for whatever reason. Now, from that inflated pool of job seekers comes your unemployment rate. Which, in July 2010, was 12.3%. This could mean that Wifey Jane or Stay At Home Dad Billy didn’t get that 12 hour a week job at the Gap or slinging smoothies for the discount. As long as your spouse INTENDS at some point, or might even intend at some point, to seek employment – bang, you’re counted in the labor force. How serious are these people about looking for jobs? Varies. But the people who are less serious are skewing the unemployment rate.

Now, lets say that both spouses/all primary householders are actively seeking work. Let’s assume that for the purpose of examining that July 2010 data. Do you know what 12.3% taken out of 1.3 million is? It’s 1,160,538 employed householders. Add some children in there and the number of people gainfully employed or supported by gainfully employed people in the Rays market is significant. Much, much, much more significant than those who are unemployed, which, we’ve discussed, is not exactly an honest number, but for this exercise we are assuming total versimilitude.

Back to reality, though. Those 162,460 unemployed householders in the July 2010 sample….who are they? What kind of economy is this? Its hospitality and tourism based, a-doiii. Everyone knows that. So whats the likelihood that these unemployed people are service workers who are unlikely, at best, to support a baseball team to begin with? Shocker – its pretty fucking likely. The Accomodation and Food Services industry showed negative growth of 2.7% year-over-year. The Leisure and Hospitality Industry showed negative 2.4% growth year-over-year, the highest two industry losers by far in the market. It doesn’t take much to assume that job numbers in those industries have been declining since 2007.

So we’ve now established that the unemployment rate is not only partially misleading, but that its comprised of non-factor personnel for the Rays. Service workers, immigrants (I didn’t discuss this, but I didn’t think I needed to) – these people aren’t attending baseball games WHEN employed. But what about people more likely to attend baseball games? People with college degrees (calculator nerds) are more likely to acquire middle class, white collar jobs with enough discretionary money to use at a baseball game. The national unemployment rate for these people in July 2010? 4.5%. The all encompassing national unemployment rate in July 2010 is 13.8%. So that’s an approximate 8.3% difference. Unbelievable, right? And though this data isn’t available locally, is it that much of a stretch to think that the Rays sub-market of college grads aged 25 years and older is that much different than the national average? Not to me.

So, by all means, come up with whatever excuses you need to to pardon the area. Location, Jew owners, whatever. But using unemployment rate is silly. Even at our nadir, there are a fucking outrageous amount of employed people in this market, enough to fill more than 20 Tropicana Fields at once. And the people who are supposed to be able to afford ballgames can.

i'll tweet that prick right now
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions

by PlayOnWords on Aug 31, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

tl;dr

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your response morphs into an opinion piece on this point:

The national unemployment rate for these people in July 2010? 4.5%. The all encompassing national unemployment rate in July 2010 is 13.8%. So that’s an approximate 8.3% difference. Unbelievable, right? And though this data isn’t available locally, is it that much of a stretch to think that the Rays sub-market of college grads aged 25 years and older is that much different than the national average? Not to me.

That’s the number that should be calculated and not just assumed. I know it’s not your job to do so and appreciate you taking the effort to breakdown the numbers.

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Aug 31, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

8.7% in MIL, fyi.

I’m not saying it’s a straight proxy independent of other factors, but it does correlate.

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Aug 31, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not enough time to build a fanbase -- only been around since 1882

Also would have accepted:
football town — thus clearly hate baseball and don’t give a fuck
large percentage of immigrants from third world locations such as Mexico, Kentucky
lack of discretionary income — rather stay at home and buy case of Natty Light instead
high unemployment (breakdown of higher income college grads unavailable)
school night (do they have schools?)
stadium location (too close to Ohio River for aquaphobics)
smokestacks in right field frightens children — rather stay home and do “homework”

Your source for replacement level commentary

by RATW on Aug 31, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

"large percentage of immigrants from third world locations such as Mexico, Kentucky"

This commentary is well above replacement level.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

And the Reds haven't made the playoffs in 15 years.

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by Jamie DeVriend on Aug 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Eh

There is no location in the Tampa Bay area that’s easy to get to for most of the population, unlike most cities. Damn bay screws things up. Miami has a similar problem simply because the metro area is long and narrow.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Sep 1, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ohhhh I get it!! sternfan1 is Dan Sileo

Mystery solved. Whew almost didnt catch that one!

by USF Doug on Aug 31, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The bigger factor is the 88% employed who dont give a fuck.

i'll tweet that prick right now
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Aug 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions

by PlayOnWords on Aug 31, 2010 7:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'd love to get a read on MSA's percentage of population that is between 18 and 35 (aka people most likely to have disposable income).

It seems to me that most of the games are family affairs, and once school goes back in session those people don’t come on school nights. More so than other parks that I’ve been to.

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Make that 30-45

Im 26 and I still dont know what this “disposable income” thing is… im pretty sure you’re all lieing

by USF Doug on Aug 31, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

but an area is responsible for supporting its team

if they can’t get butts in the seats, then there are major questions as to their validity as a major league market.

This team is breaking records in their divisional chase. It is going down as the closest divisional race in MLB-history. Best of all, its a David vs Goliath chase—not Red Sux and Stankees, but the Rays and Stankees. And both teams are tied not just for the division but for baseball’s best record, also an MLB record. If you can’t support this…when can you support?

by raysfaninminnesota on Aug 31, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Support is not the same as attendance

See below.

This area is supporting the Rays. Just not by showing up to the games.

And with regard to your point about validity as a major league market, you really need to look at some historic attendance numbers. I think you’d be surprised at how many markets have had “major questions about their validity as a major league market” according to your argument over the years.

by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Aug 31, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know this is your shtick, but how many games have you gone to this year SF?

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bah. Now I sound like a cosigner.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

You couldn't have picked a better mentor

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

One of my better life decisions.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Says the guy who didnt attend the game.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's analogous to saying

“You can’t complain about the government if you didn’t vote.”

Bullshit. Whether you attended the game or not, the overall attendance would’ve been crap still. One person doesn’t make a difference. Individuals are not that important. The collective attitude of the market toward the Rays is what counts. And right now, it seems to be mostly indifference.

"It doesnt really matter what I think anymore." - Kevin Kennedy

by acablue on Aug 31, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't agree. If you're really that worried about it, do something (at the very least your part and go to the game). Don't just sit there and bitch about it.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

WE HAVE WINNER!

wtbudlight made the prediction in the GDT!

by wtbudlight on Aug 31, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really went out on a limb there huh

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Crawford definitely blew it on the double.

He could have had a triple for sure. Don’t remember the other play, but yeah, no one in the media will second guess him…wouldn’t want him getting upset with Tampa Bay and damper his chances of signing with us after this year!

I can't belive my grand mothers making me take Out the garbage I'm rich fuck this I'm going home I don't need this shit

by pudieron89 on Aug 31, 2010 7:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't think BJ has ever been criticized for not stretching a double into a triple

Its usually a pick off, double play, or a mental lapse base-running blunder.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Aug 31, 2010 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was more pissed that Craw allowed the Red Sox to get a double Sunday night, he easily should have kept the guy

to a single, but he loafed and didn’t throw in right away.

If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.

Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 31, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe not here.

But he definitely has on the mainstream blogs.

by ReyL on Aug 31, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know how BJ ever gets a triple, being so notoriously slow out of the box.

I can't belive my grand mothers making me take Out the garbage I'm rich fuck this I'm going home I don't need this shit

by pudieron89 on Aug 31, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Any possibility that he (Crawford) is hurting?

As opposed to not giving it his all? He seems to have been running slightly different to me over the past couple of games which suggested to me that his knees may be hurting. Additionally I dont think his arm is back to 100%

by Rayskins on Aug 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

again...

Its getting old 20$ 30$ for a ticket to see a game when the team is 31 games above 500?! And in the hunt for a AL East title… How long can this last? I was less dissapointed when I switched over to ESPN an saw how bad ATL’s crowd looked. No wonder we are gonna lose CC and Garza atleast we have a great minor league system… but how long can you keep plugging holes? Or you end up like the marlins? New stadium and a pissed off fanbase…

by slak96u on Aug 31, 2010 7:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Gotta get Yonder Alonso somehow.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

What has he proven?

Haddad is an arab name, all arabs are terrorists. At least some Indians are hilarious tech support geeks with mustaches and fake talk-shows

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 18, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Aug 31, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

He got drafted in the 1st round, what more do you want from him?

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

What has any prospect proven?

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Send Shields to Cincy for him

most likely one of Garza or Shields is being traded in the offseason (most expensive). If the Rays can sign Garza to a deal buying out the remainder of his arbitration and one or two years of free agency, then I can see them moving Shields.

by raysfaninminnesota on Aug 31, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're insane.

Shields isn’t going anywhere for years. He’s signed to one of the most team friendly deals in baseball.

by Erik Hahmann on Aug 31, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

But that also increases his trade value

I could see them moving him after next year for a very nice package. There is starting pitching in the pipeline and the Rays seem hesitant to carry pitchers with high salaries likely due to greater injury risk than position players and also the development curve of the position.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Aug 31, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

look at Floridas 2003 lineup

That could be the Rays 5 years from now… Tons of huge stars in Baseball playing for other teams… ESPN is calling out the Rays for good reason look at every other AL East teams attendance numbers and look at the Rays its SAD! I’m not from Tampa or St Pete but I love the team but you can’t deny that in this set up a AL East winning team can be profitable or even survive…

by slak96u on Aug 31, 2010 7:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Slak I am confused

In an earlier post(Shields leads TB to 6-2 win) you say you go to 10-15 games and if the team was in tampa near I-4 ,You would go to more games.Now you are saying your not from Tampa.

by Landlord on Aug 31, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry

It ’s 6.5 WC lead thread

by Landlord on Aug 31, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Back to baseball--Niemann's start tonight is huge

he needs to prrove he’s healthy enough to be included in the playoff rotation

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Aug 31, 2010 7:50 AM EDT reply actions  

"Back to baseball" Agreed, how did we get off topic onto that attendance discussion in the first place? I can't even remember.

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

oops Eric's

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Aug 31, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then it would be ON topic no? And you're ducking my questions again

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unhealthy and ? terminal

Not a good outing following a very poor outing. Where is Jeremy?

by Raysball Fan on Aug 31, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im sorry i keep harping on the attendance and location thing but...

I love the rays when I was a kid I had to drive to Atlanta to see a game… but the franchise has major issues and I don’t see Tampa in any hurry to address them. However the crappy economy helps keep the team where they are at.. When the Magic made a stink to leave Orlando the first time nobody cared but the second time they did they got a brand new arena and a performance arts center(maybe a slight upgrade on the c bowl… doubt it) It just seems like everybodys kosher even though the best team in baseball is pulling 12k attendance for a game in september….

by slak96u on Aug 31, 2010 8:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Jesus, we get it.

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

not september yet

but probably not a bad prediction.

I can't belive my grand mothers making me take Out the garbage I'm rich fuck this I'm going home I don't need this shit

by pudieron89 on Aug 31, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think so, and I think that's a good comp for him. I'm excited to see him against big leaguers in Sept

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if they play Hawpe against Romero

I doubt it but I imagine they’ll give him a PH chance

by sattp on Aug 31, 2010 8:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

If I had to guess I'd say the move doesn't get done until post game, just in case of BP need, but w/e

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

As long as it happens before midnight, yeah

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "Free the slaves at traffic stops from false arrest and jury fixing"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 31, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

His splits are fairly equal this year.

And better vs LHP than Aybar’s so…

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Are you asking me a question you already know the answer to?

And you’re fairly close to going back to “don’t respond to his bullshit” status. If someone asks you a question related to something you posted, the constructive thing to do is answer it.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

...
His splits are fairly equal this year.

Implies that I’m aware of that.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's the problem with evaluating a player of his skill set when they've apparently hit the wall.

If you’re implying his career splits are more important than this year’s splits, then he wouldn’t have been released.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

They had cheaper talent that needed more playing time

Why not move the old guy?

If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.

Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 31, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, I agree.

Its the same thing we went through with Burrell, sorta. At the beginning of the season you wouldn’t have weighed PtB’s career numbers over the numbers he put up last year. It’s the same deal when evaluating how Hawpe is going to perform for the Rays this year, IMO.

When an older guy with Hawpe’s and Burrell’s talents “hit the wall”, you pretty much have to throw out their career numbers.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

You never throw out the career numbers, weight them weakly, but throwing them out is bad analysis

If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.

Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 31, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

"pretty much have to throw out their career numbers."

Is tantamount to weighing them weakly.

I don’t think I’m very good at articulating myself these days.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well if you weight his last 5 seasons (including this one) at 1-1-1-1-5

you still get a wOBA of .356. Throw in a 10% penalty for moving which I think is extremely high and you get a .321 which is still better than DanJo or anything else we’ve been putting out there.

If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.

Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 31, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice. That's good to know.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Aug 31, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I swear here and now

That if Hawpe comes up and puts up great peripheral stats but his BABIP sucks ala Joyce/Johnson I’ll lose my mind. I can already see him doing something like bat .212/.340/.410 after a few games and fans call for his head.

Can’t we have someone get BABIP lucky for a couple dozen at bat please?

by sattp on Aug 31, 2010 11:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The attendance fallacy

Attendance is not the same as support. They are being used by many as proxies for each other, but that is wrong. Attendance is one manifestation of support, but not the only one. If someone wants to make the case that the Tampa Bay market does not support the Rays, low home attendance certainly helps that case, but that person needs to address the high TV rating for Rays games. And they should look at merchandise sales, a figure which I have not seen reported at all. The Rays could be last in selling team gear, or they could be 6th in all of MLB — I don’t know, but it seems to me that would be another telling piece of the puzzle.

This market, right now, seems very clearly to be one where fans care about the Rays, many intensely, and want to watch the Rays on a regular basis, but do not want to do so live and in person at Tropicana Field except on Friday nights, Saturday nights, and Sunday days.

I see a lot of potential conclusions one could draw from that data. But none of those conclusions looks anything like “this is not a major league market” or “Tampa Bay does not deserve a team”.

by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Aug 31, 2010 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Or don't want to drive all the way from North Tampa/Tampa Palms

Watch a game until 10 with the kids, fight traffic both ways, and still have an hour ride.

I know some are going to say “suck it up” but thats just the god honest truth. I’ve seen too many people from that neck of the woods with the disposable income to go to the game, but can’t leave the office right at 5, go get the kids/wife, battle Bruce B. Downs to the interstate, and then battle traffic all the way from Bearss to downtown St. Petersburg (and either park during first pitch, or be slightly late), get in there with the family, spend money, and then have to turn around and haul all the way back.

Its a pain in the ass, and for a good chunk of the population in this area, its in that “impossible” realm. They’re not even going to try.

by BrokeBearMountain on Aug 31, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

How is this any different from what people in other markets have to go through?

Suburbs exist in every metropolitan area. So do traffic jams.

"It doesnt really matter what I think anymore." - Kevin Kennedy

by acablue on Aug 31, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is something fundamentally different about the people in the TB area compared to other areas

Florida has no history of baseball. People here are old and don’t give a fuck about sports. Latino population is higher than average, and they never go to sporting events. People here in general are poor and without disposable income because Florida’s public education sucks.

etc. etc.

"It doesnt really matter what I think anymore." - Kevin Kennedy

by acablue on Aug 31, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta disagree with at least one of your points

People here are old and don’t care about sports? Is that why our area sold out one of the largest stadiums in the league for just about two full seasons . . . in hockey? Is that why the Buccaneers were sold out throughout nearly all of the Tony Dungy era and all but the last year or two of the Jon Gruden years?

The major differences between the Rays’ situation and those two situations are the sport involved (baseball vs. hockey vs. football) and the location of the stadium (downtown St. Pete vs. downtown Tampa vs. airport area of Tampa). All 3 teams were at the top of their league for a period of time. And although there are only weekly football games, and only on weekends — which is an important distinction — the frequency of hockey home games vaguely resembles the frequency of baseball home games. I’m not sure I can accept an argument that Florida is more of a rabid hockey market than a baseball market. So perhaps it all does come down to stadium location.

by Not Whole View Gang survivor on Aug 31, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, from my experience in FL there are more people that have the entitled baby mindset.

If the stars don’t align in their interest then they’ll just turn their back.

If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.

Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 31, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

SSS

The only people who really know where [the edge] is are the ones who have gone over it.

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Aug 31, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

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