Colby Rasmus for BJ Upton?

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 2:25 PM EDT

ESPN is reporting Rasmus has not taken a shining to St. Louis, and earlier asked to be traded. Just curious if anyone saw this as an interesting solution for two guys who could maybe use a change of scenery. St. Louis may prefer to trade for pitching, but is this a pretty even trade?

Upton has more star potential, plays gold glove defense, and is one of the best base stealers in the game. Rasmus is only in his second season, has plenty of power potential and plays above average defense, and is cheap.

Even a Rasmus for Shields trade would be pretty decent and could give the Rays a Joyce-Upton/Jennings-Rasmus OF, with Zobrist splitting time between 2B and OF.

Best part is, Rasmus is still a year away from arbitration, and the Rays could still add a slugging DH.

Potential Lineup:

Jennings

Jaso/Zobrist

Longoria

Rasmus

Joyce

Zobrist/Jaso

Anderson(1B? or could be Pena if he resigns, and if so would bat higher in the lineup)

Brignac

Should Rasmus be a trade target in the offseason?

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

We’d get so many kids off every game it was great.

Hey, Surly only looks out for one guy...Surly!
by Andy Hellicksonstine

by putupyourDUKES on Sep 6, 2010 2:58 PM EDT reply actions

Oh wow?

by Suttree on Sep 6, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Why would the Cards even fathom this?

If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.

Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.

by Sandy Kazmir on Sep 6, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions

Maybe that's not a good enough deal (and maybe I'm insane to even say maybe)

But shouldn’t he be a Rays target? What if the Rays traded Shields instead. Don’t see why the Rays won’t first explore the market for Shields before Garza this offseason.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Because Shields is better and cheaper.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 6, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

i dispute the better, the cheaper not for long

Shields stats have gotten worse in each of the last three years in nearly any stat you want to look at (ERA, FIP, BB/9, BAA, HR/9, WAR), his salary is still reasonable at 4.5 next year, and then it’s 7, 9, 12 (those three are club options obviously)…but it’s hard to look at Shields and be able to confidently say he’s better than Garza.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

xFIP 08-10: 3.92, 3.92, 3.70.

Even if you assume he’s more of a 11.5% HR/FB guy instead of 10 he’s still really good. I’m still flying with Shields over anyone in this rotation minus Price.

And nice job avoiding K/9 where he’s jumped dramatically.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 6, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions

just like you managed to pick two categories where he didn't get worse?

And I said “nearly”…so just because I disagree with you, you are going to try to knock me?

I think there are enough warning signs to ask legitimate questions about shields viability in the AL East.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Its not just homers stop trying to cloud the picture.

Try looking up his total bases and compare them to good pitcher. How bout his rising LD%

Shields is no longer “better” I would argue until he learns to get teams of his fstballs he is likely no better that our 5th starter Davis. And likely deserves a spot in the bullpen where one can “hope” he can put a little more on his fastball and get it back to at least effective and not a major liability.

by raysnghell on Sep 12, 2010 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions

"but it’s hard to look at Shields and be able to confidently say he’s better than Garza."

It’s not. Even if you don’t ignore that HR/FB is mostly luck on a single season level:

Shields FIP: 3.82, 4.02, 4.26
Garza FIP: 4.14, 4.17, 4.18

Add in the durability and again, I’m rolling with Shields.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 6, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

but he has been getting worse since 2008

Is it a pattern or not? Was 08 his best year? Will he approach it again? I have nothing against Shields. I do think he still is a good pitcher. I just would rather have Garza.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Pitchers don't age like hitters.

And given that his strikeout rate his increased this year .. no, I don’t buy that he’s gotten worse on an annual basis.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 6, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

which is why he's still a good pitcher

but Garza is two years younger, has been durable since he’s come to the Rays. Maybe it’s just a preference thing and the Rays can’t go wrong with either pitcher.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Right. This is pointless.

Also I do find it funny that everyone wants Rasmus — and I do too — but if B.J. requested a trade this place would want him set on fire, especially if someone like Pujols spoke out against him.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 6, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah, but there still are warning signs on Shields to be concerned about

And that’s why I think Rasmus trade value might be at least a little less now than what it was before some of this stuff came out.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

BJ doesn't have an idiot manager keepoing him off the field for a no-talent assclown.

I’d love to have Rasmus.

by rglass44 on Sep 7, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

he is no rasmus

but last I checked briggy has been sitting behind bartlett all yr

by Dbullsfan on Sep 7, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

HUGE difference.

by rglass44 on Sep 7, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with cheap part

but what makes shields better than Garza?

"Pacing back and forth as he decides retirement, Brett Favre accidentally completes Redskins conditioning test." — ESPN.com's Jeff MacGregor

by thedudeofdudes on Sep 6, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions

how about

Garza for Rasmus?

by BudGHG on Sep 6, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions

I think this is more realistic....Rasmus is going to be a big trade piece this winter and it will take more than Upton

I would envision Garza and Joyce for Rasmus and I would do it in a heartbeat…I like Joyce and think he will be good but he is no Rasmus and if we can get a MLB ready return for Garza, who is likely to be shopped this winter anyway to clear room for Hellickson than I do this deal.

by Dbullsfan on Sep 6, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Why is everyone surprised at the Rasmus for Upton idea?

Upton still gives the red birds a topflight defensive CF, their WAR really isn’t that far different (2.4 to 2.7), Rasmus is 24, Upton 25…maybe Upton and a prospect like Barnese would do the trick.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions

Rasmus is an A prospect still making minimum salary who won’t hit Arb1 until 2012… no, we’re not getting him for BJ and Barnese.

by Jeffrey Borbas on Sep 6, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

if he has a problem playing in St. Louis, that should raise flags

either way, even if you disagree with the compensation, Rays should try to get their hands on a guy like Rasmus.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 6, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

The flag it should raise is that he’s probably got some common sense. St. Louis is sort of a creepy, negative place to play in recent years.

by Salty on Sep 7, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions

I live in St Louis

The kid has all the talent in the world, but the problem is really Tony La Russa. He hates that Rasmus doesn’t play his way. It’s funny because La Russa asks Rasmus to bunt and Rasmus obviously doesn’t want to so he will miss it seems like on purpose.

Anyways, I think Garza + Joyce would do it. Upton would get torn apart in St. Louis. If theres one thing Cardinal fans hate, it’s someone who doesn’t play hard. And I know its a joke around here, but his perception around the league and what it looks like sometimes on the field is that he doesn’t play a hard 9 and that is something the Cardinals have strive for in their organization.

Sam Bradford

by Jombari on Sep 6, 2010 6:49 PM EDT reply actions

lol

by daveh33 on Sep 6, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions

u dumb

We’d get so many kids off every game it was great.

Hey, Surly only looks out for one guy...Surly!
by Andy Hellicksonstine

by putupyourDUKES on Sep 6, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions

you're comments are useless.

go away

by RaysTheRoof on Sep 7, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions

no! you are comments are useless.

Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.

by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT

by Doug09 on Sep 7, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions

you are the reason the average reader of this site does not post

because they just try and contribute but people like you think they know everything about baseball when really you just sit in your basement while you work your job that pays you hourly

Sam Bradford

by Jombari on Sep 7, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

that's me, and one of those things about me are true

We’d get so many kids off every game it was great.

Hey, Surly only looks out for one guy...Surly!
by Andy Hellicksonstine

by putupyourDUKES on Sep 7, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions

rec this man

We’d get so many kids off every game it was great.

Hey, Surly only looks out for one guy...Surly!
by Andy Hellicksonstine

by putupyourDUKES on Sep 7, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I was sticking up for you.

Learn to reply to who you actually want to berate, or else im going to start agreeing with dukes.

by RaysTheRoof on Sep 9, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think it is crazy to think garza + joyce....

I think it is a good move for both teams. Maybe we can turn it into a 3 way and try to land a good cheap 1b or dh as well if you think garza and joyce is too much

by Dbullsfan on Sep 7, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions

"...garza and joyce is too much"

At least a little too much. I think a three team trade is the only way this would work.

by firemangreg on Sep 7, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

it's beyond crazy

We’d get so many kids off every game it was great.

Hey, Surly only looks out for one guy...Surly!
by Andy Hellicksonstine

by putupyourDUKES on Sep 7, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Is Rasmus at all better than Upton?

They’re a little BABIP regression away from having very similar lines, and ZIPS projects comparable wOBAs for the rest of the year.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the skillset is very valuable, but Rasmus has struck out at a rate Upton hasn’t even approached since 2007, and Upton has a more extensive history walking.

by Whelk on Sep 8, 2010 6:45 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah, but you get Rasmus for 4 more years including one that is essentially free.

Beej has, at most, two more years here and they’ll be expensive, but a lot of people feel he won’t even be around next year.

The great thing about baseball is that it requires careful observation not simply attendance and it rewards the analytical person while consistently befuddling the superficial.

Help others while helping yourself by purchasing this Trade Deadline Primer:
http://dockoftherays.com/2010/07/03/2010-trade-deadline-primer/

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Sep 9, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions

He also has more power potential in my opinion.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions

As BJ continues to up his numbers

Let’s take a look at the comparison of the 2.

Upton .237/.324/.427, 16 HR, 52 RBI, 39 SB, 2.7 WAR
Rasmus .268/.353/.493, 19 HR, 55 RBI, 10 SB, 2.7 WAR

Upton is 26. Rasmus is 24.

All in all, if Upton closes out this month well, he has the possibility of approaching a .250avg and 20 HR…not great, but not as horrible as things looked early on. And, Upton is still young enough to tap into the potential people think he has.

Rasmus is cheaper, still a year away from arb, while Upton is going into year two, but I wouldn’t give up more than Barnese in addition to make this trade. Upton, despite public perception, isn’t junk. To me, its the perfect change of scenery trade.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 9, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions

am I the only one who would rather give up Joyce than Upton even if it means a better 2nd piece

Jennings, Upton, Rasmus is a sexy OF

by Dbullsfan on Sep 9, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I think that it would be great to get him

but I would think the asking price would be high.

R.I.P. Scott Kazmir 2005-2008

by raysfan81 on Sep 12, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Angels

The Angels will give you back Kazmir.

by tkemp on Sep 9, 2010 9:53 PM EDT reply actions

Lord knows I never been an upton apologist.

Id always be thhe first to call it how I see it with BJ. And Going into the offseason I was hoping so badly that the team would trad upton and all the bs/underperformance. To be honest this last month or so he is a much better hitter. Is bj finally “getting” it up at the plate? I really hope this isnt one of his teases. Any way given the current state I am now inlcined to seing one more year of upton. And regarding Upton not being enough for Rasmus… I would tell any GM f off. There numers are not that much different. one may have a little more pop but one steals more bases and walks. Thier value is damn close. Throw in that Upton plays a premo position and very well. Someone is smoking crack if they think that Rasmus is worth much more than a low ball prospect. Hell if i was the GM holding Upton I would be the one asking for SOMETHING MORE. Offensive values are a wash and a plus def cf is worth more than a RF no matter how good he plays RF.

by raysnghell on Sep 12, 2010 4:56 AM EDT reply actions