Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

Young Studs: Jaso, Joyce, Brignac, and Rodriguez

There are so many options for the Rays' most "pleasant surprise", I'm going to cheat and combine four of them into one. No matter how you look at it, John Jaso, Matt Joyce, Reid Brignac, and Sean Rodriguez have been incredible additions to the Rays this season. While only Jaso and Brignac are technically rookies (Joyce and Rodriguez got too many plate appearances with their former teams), all five players had less than one full season of major league experience going into this year and yet they've all transitioned exceptionally well to the majors. Look at how they compare to a league-average player, measured by the runs above average they've added and saved for the Rays:

Offense

Defense

WAR

John Jaso

+10.5

-2.0

2.6

Sean Rodriguez

+1.3

+5.6

2.0

Matt Joyce

+7.3

+4.4

1.6

Reid Brignac

-5.4

+1.6

0.8

*The values in the Offense and Defense columns are taken from Weighted Runs Above Average (wRAA) and Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR). WAR stands for Wins Above Replacement.

Breaking into the majors can be tough for many players, even top rookies. For every Buster Posey and Carlos Santana, there is a Travis Snider or Matt Wieters. For every Stephen Strasburg, there is a David Price (who, if you remember correctly, had a 4.42 ERA and 4.59 FIP last season). Rookies can take time to adjust to the majors and some never learn how to do it.

Heck, just look at the Orioles this season. They have a wealth of minor league talent and young prospects, but they have taken time to come around on the major league level. Their slugging thirdbaseman of the future, Josh Bell, has hit .220/.231/.326 in his stint in the majors this year. Jake Arrietta has a 4.96 ERA and a FIP to match. Matt Wieters - the man, the myth, the legend - has hit .255/.328/.395 so far, and that's with a recent hot streak to boost his numbers. Prospects are so much fun to follow and root for, but they can take a lot of patience.

And so, we shouldn't take the recent performances by Jaso, Joyce, Rodriguez, and Brignac for granted. At the beginning of the season, there were question marks and concerns about all four of them: Jaso and Briggy were fading prospects whose stars had dimmed, Joyce had his large platoon splits, and Rodriguez had poor plate discipline and carried the unfortunate burden of being the major piece in the Scott Kazmir trade. And yet, all four of these prospects have blossomed at the major-league level and become key cogs for the 2010 Rays.

How often has a team had so many young players contribute so much, so quickly? It's not a common occurrence, so be thankful.

Comment 47 comments  |  2 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Benoit was a good guess...he's also up there.

Lots of people guessed Jaso, so points to all of you.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

This really has been a pleasant suprise.

It also makes me a bit more cheery for a future sans CC…

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Brignac

Significantly below average offensively, only slightly above average defensively. Why is he grouped with the other three? I certainly do not consider him a major contributor nor a pleasant surprise this season. The potential remains there, but if anything I’d characterize his rookie season as a mild disappointment.

by Expatriate in Tampa on Sep 9, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I was expecting this to come from sf1...

I included him because he’s still contributed and served his role with the team this season. The concern was always with his defense, and he’s shown to be at worst average at short.

Also, the numbers above compare a player with a league-average hitter, regardless of position. Shortstops as a whole are worse hitters than average, so Briggy’s offense hasn’t been as bad as it appears above.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ouch

Being compared with Eeyore (sf1) hurts. I’m nowhere near as negative as Eeyore is about the team. But Brignac is one Ray who has not yet convinced me of his value. I guess I’m in the minority here, but I’m not at all disappointed that Maddon has largely relegated him to part-time play.

by Expatriate in Tampa on Sep 9, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, no worries....I said it in jest.

And there are others here that feel similarly to you. PGP and Freezo are in the Barty camp, and I tend to hedge my position. I think he’s performed well compared with expectations for him coming into the year and I’m excited to see him play more next season. I love his defense and I’d like to see him play more, but I don’t think it’s the end of the world right now.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you look at when he was getting regular pt his offense was up.

while I’m not saying he would be an allstar I’d imagine he’d be at least average offensivly if he played everyday. And slo I was close enough right :)

by Dbullsfan on Sep 9, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I must say that I'm really pleasantly surprised at Jaso's offense.

I recall a few months ago when we were talking about how his OBP was going to come down, but it still lingers in the insanity range. Pretty sweet for a guy we didn’t expect to see this year.

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Sep 9, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed.

A catcher getting on-base at a .380 clip is pretty astounding.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

there has to be something to be said about his baserunning too

not many players, much less catchers take as many extra bases as he does…especially on passed balls and wild pitches…Rays still lost last night but he made a run by taking 3rd base on a ball 90% of runners wouldn’t have even attempted to go on.

by Dbullsfan on Sep 9, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has the second highest Speed score for catchers this season.

Definitely true…he’s a heck of a baserunner.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta love the guy

I would love to see him get the majority of the playing time at catcher next year but he probably won’t

reminds ne if the 08 team

i think thy went to the world series

by The Juicer on Sep 8, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions

by gforce3 on Sep 9, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see it being similar to this year...Jaso vs. righties and Shoppach vs. lefties.

With some odd days due to rest and such. But a lot can happen between now and then.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has anyone checked out Joyce's numbers?

take out his 19 AB’s against lefties and he’s hitting .262/.398/.545 with 23 of his 38 hits going for XB. His plate discipline is also amazing, sporting a 32-31 BB/K. Give him a full year against righties and he can hit 25-30 HR. Doesn’t matter if he can hit lefties. He’s still a force in the lineup.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 9, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions  

and revisiting the EJax trade

getting Joyce for him still looks to be an excellent trade.

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 9, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

In all fairness, Jackson has an impressive 3.83 xFIP.

But given our wealth of pitching talent and our need for better hitting, I like the trade.

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Sep 9, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't tell if you're making fun of me or agreeing with me.

So I’ll respond twice:

Agreed.

And…
[Thou art] pigeon-liver’d and lack gall.
 
- William Shakespeare, from Hamlet

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Sep 9, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was agreeing somewhat.

Agreeing to the depth part, but also adding the HUGE cost savings. Not making fun fo’ sure.

by rglass44 on Sep 9, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was going to mention that too, but forgot.

Joyce is cheap and could make a huge difference this season and in seasons to come. Moreover, he brings strength to our comparative weakness, which makes each extra bit of value multiplicatively more valuable.

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Sep 9, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, well...
[Thou have] not so much brain as ear wax.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Forgot to cite....

- Wife’s Shakespearean insults coffee mug

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's make this similar to an IQ question

Example
Which item doesn’t belong?

Apple, peach, carrott, orange
Answer is—carrott

Jaso, Rodriguez, Joyce, Brignac

Answer is _____________

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

wrong-- the apple doesn't belong, the other three have orange-hued meat.

Man I just saw a tall super model giraffe lookin ass bitch and I thought I could fuck her an make 1 of them super ball dunkin ass niggas lol

by pudieron89 on Sep 9, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I love the other three

but Briggy is never going to hit or be a good enough OBP guy to suit me

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Sep 9, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you give us such delictable quotes?!

You are feeding us fodder for future seasons!

You should what I do: Write everything in tl;dr fashion. Spare no expense in your treatises — use words that sate the soul’s appetite for the unwieldy and employ dozens syllables. This way, only a few people will read it, and they will be hard pressed to remember it in a year when the over-zealous diction has turned their minds to a pasty mush.

A DRaysBay writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum

by BWoodrum on Sep 9, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

League average for an AL SS: .253/.321/.337 for a .658 OPS

 Briggy: .261/.309/.381 for a .690 OPS this season. Better than league-average for a SS…not bad for a player’s first year in the majors.

Asking your SS to be a good hitter is rough….there aren’t many around.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Sep 9, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm very surprised that SRod's WAR is higher than Joyce's

Given Joyce’s huge offensive advantage and how relatively close they are defensively. I assume the reason is a large positional advantage in favor of SRod?

by Expatriate in Tampa on Sep 9, 2010 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't forget general overall playing time

S-Rod has been here all season. Joyce, only since end of June.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Sep 9, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm really interested to see what Sean Rod can do against RHP with enough playing time

And to a lesser extent what Joyce can do to LHP with enough reps. Of course, this is after this season. Even if we aren’t competitive next year we’ll be fun to watch.

by sattp on Sep 9, 2010 7:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

"incredible addtions" is a little too much of a compliment.

the four stand out more because of the below average players who were the alternative- Kapler, Navi, Gross and to a lesser extent Aki.

by drungo on Sep 9, 2010 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

well, I'd look again at most of them at least

Jaso is an incredible addition – he ranks as the 8th best catcher in MLB according to WAR (just below the Mauer-McCann-Posey group)

Joyce has been an incredible addition – his power vs right handed pitching has been a difference-maker since he has been up

S-Rod has made an impact – fangraphs has him as the 7th best defender at 2B, is .316/.393/.495 vs lefties

Brignac may not be an incredible addition, but he’s been better than any other backup shortstop and one of the better pinch hitters in the league.

Incredible additions is not a far stretch, especially when you consider where would the Rays be at C without Jaso, and Joyce’s power production with other bats slumping, etc

by raysfaninminnesota on Sep 10, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

And to add compare them to the Yankees or Red Sox “depth” players. We have probably the strongest bench and organizational depth in the league.

by rglass44 on Sep 10, 2010 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Founded in 2005, DRaysBay is home to, "Progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument."

Please read our Community Guidelines.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Zobrist vs Pedroia vs Cano
Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospect #31 Runoff

Recent FanPosts

Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospect #40
Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospects #39
Small
Joe Maddon Town Hall meeting on the Ron and Ian show. Any ideas for questions I should ask?
Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospect #37
Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospect #35
Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospect #34
Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospect #33
Scaled_php_small
Rays Community Prospect #32

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

With a steady set of prospects still in this highly ranked farm system, how long does the window stay open for the Rays? 

See full post on Beyond the Box Score
"RHP Brandon Gomes will be behind at the start of spring training after...
2 minor league signings with invitations to spring...
Jeff Bagwell, Fred McGriff, The Hall of Fame, and 400 Home Runs
ESPN Chat with Matt Moore
Danny Clyburn: 1974-2012
Joe Maddon Town Hall Contest
Hickey said as of now all of the starters -- Wade Davis, Jeff Niemann,...
White Sox sign Dan Johnson
Indians acquire Canzler

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

DRB Fantasy Baseball

Friends of the Site

DRB Suggestion Box

Drb4_medium


Managers

Slowsky__1__small Steve Slowinski

Dad_small Jason Collette

Brad_small BWoodrum

Price_small Erik Hahmann

Analysts

Lob-city_design_small rglass44

Untitled_small EminenceFront

Small Mulva

Rutg_uakjmedjwh9ndzd4lkll_small Imperialism32

100_1952_small MrNegative1

Steak-with-crown_small CBJones

Whelk_small Whelk

Small PGP

Scaled_php_small mr. maniac

Tampa_theatre_small jcmitchell

Me_small John Gregg