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Blue Jays Sign Jon Rauch

From Jerry Crasnick:

#BlueJays sign reliever Jon Rauch to $3.5M deal with club option of $3.75M for 2012, 

This is disappointing news for all of us that were hoping the Rays were still going to get one high-upside arm off the free agent market. Our entire wish list has now been emptied: Octavio Dotel is with the Blue Jays; Chad Qualls is with the Padres; Grant Balfour is with the Athletics, Kevin Gregg is with the Orioles; and now Jon Rauch joins the Blue Jays. He was the last reliever on the market with a solid track record; now we're looking at a collection of players with upside, but also lots and lots of question marks.

This signing raises two immediate questions in my mind: why do the Rays seemingly prefer Farnsworth over Rauch, and who else is left for us to target? Let's tackle these one by one.

Star-divide

Farnsworth vs. Rauch

It's tough not to immediately compare these two signings, considering that both relievers signed within the last week for deals that are nearly identical in length and money. Maybe the Rays were hesitant to sign two relievers to two-year deals, but if that's the case, then why did they prefer to sign Farnsworth over Rauch? We've been hoping the Rays sign Rauch for so long, this seems like a very curious decision by the Rays.

Farnsworth is two years older than Rauch (34 years old versus 32), but neither pitcher has a significant injury history (minus Farnsworth's freak dog bite injuries). They're both durable relievers and a near lock to pitch around 60-70 innings, but the Rays' rationale gets a little clearer when you peak at some of their peripheral statistics over the last two years:

Farnsworth

Rauch

3.79

ERA

3.38

3.08

FIP

3.46

3.54

xFIP

4.43

9.1

K/9

6.7

2.9

BB/9

2.6

43%

GB%

37%

While Rauch has put up the lower ERA over the past couple years, Farnsworth has been the better overall pitcher. He's generated more strikeouts and groundballs, while walking only slightly more batters and allowing a similar amount of homeruns.  His BABIP has been his main downfall, making his 2009 season look much worse than it should have been, but the Rays have one of the best defenses in the majors. If there's any team that can bring down Farnsworth's BABIP and ERA, it's the Rays.

Of course, this analysis centers on the assumption that Farnsworth's recent improvements are legit and that he's likely to continue producing at a similar level going forward. Normally I wouldn't buy into that - history is normally the best judge of how a pitcher will do in the future - but there are some convincing reasons why his improvements may be for real. The Rays seem to think these improvements are for real, and only time will tell if they are vindicated or not.

Who's Next?

This is the big question, and I don't have a great answer. I'm sure RJ and Tommy will shortly come up with some more names to look at, but while perusing the free agent list right now, there are no names that jump out at me. Well, that's not entirely true: there are plenty of players that might be worth a try, but none of the same caliber as Rauch. All the remaining pitchers are essentially crapshoots: injured relievers looking to bounce back, old relievers looking to hang around for another year or two, and players trying to re-invent their careers. It's not an attractive list, but if you look a bit deeper, there are some potential pieces still to be found.

Here are a couple names and some general thoughts:

  • Todd Coffey: He's probably my number one remaining target. Coffey's put up solid strikeout, walk, and groundball rates over the last two years, although he's had his success in the National League and he is susceptible to allowing homeruns. If nothing else, his 4.20 FIP last season in 69 games is pretty attractive.
  • Chad Durbin: Similar to Coffey, Durbin has posted good strikeout, walk, and groundball rates, but he's been inconsistent over the last three years. Control seems to be his biggest concern.
  • Alfredo Aceves: Sternfan1's new favorite, Aceves is a power arm that pitched well for the Yankees over the last few seasons. His main problem is control, and he also had a lower back problem that ended his 2010 season. I'm unsure of his current status, but if healthy, he'd be worth a flyer.
  • Mark Hendrickson: Jason Hanselman has you covered.
  • Kelvim Escobar / Juan Cruz: Both of these guys have had significant injury problems recently, so signing them would depend upon their current status. I haven't seen updates anywhere on them, but they'd be worth looking into for sheer upside alone.

Anyone that I missed?

The Rays could also promote reliever from within and chose not to sign another reliever for the bullpen, especially since the bullpen might now be getting a bit crowded: Farnsworth, Russell, Peralta, Ramos, and Sonnanstine are all probable locks, while Howell will be back early and McGee could join the 'pen as well. That's not a bad combination and has some good upside, especially if the Rays sign one more smaller name for back-up. While I'd feel better with Rauch in the bullpen as well, we can still get by.

It may be that the Rays didn't need to sign another big-name reliever, and are content with the core of bullpen as it stands right now. Also, it could be they really wanted Rauch, but weren't willing to spend as much on him as they did on Farnsworth. There are so many different possibilities on how this went down, and there's no way we'll know the true answer. At the very least, this makes taking guesses about our 2011 bullpen very interesting.

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Escobar is supposed to be on a throwing program; if he's still healthy and available, a minor-league contract with ML invite and a veteran minimum salary loaded with incentives would be nice to waive at him with.

12-19-2010 - TAMPA, Fla.: The Detroit Lions erased some painful memories by ending the longest road losing streak in NFL history against YOUR Tampa Bay Succaneers.

Also, melanin makes people lazy.

by kericr on Jan 17, 2011 4:56 PM EST reply actions  

suck it

Does Scott Shields still have 2 arms?

If not, why not take a shot at Chris Ray?

by bpoe13 on Jan 17, 2011 4:59 PM EST reply actions  

Farnsworth is also at least 250K cheaper

I mean, I know that’s a “no duh” moment, but I can imagine Rauch’s agents going to Friedman and asking for 3.75.

My guess is that the team brings back Lurch on a 1-year, sub-$1MM deal to be the spot lefty; Ramos has mostly been a starter until last year, and I’m not sure the team views him as a viable LOOGY. (Even more so for the dude they picked up in the Rule 5 draft whose name I can’t recall right now.)

I also think this means Jake McGee starts the season as the closer.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

Still time to make a trade.

I hope. That’s not a very good bullpen as presently constructed.

by fsucb on Jan 17, 2011 5:08 PM EST reply actions  

no way

Unless the Rays give up no one of consequence, you don’t trade assets away from the 95-win 2012 Rays for something as volatile as a reliever.

Now, if they can get a solid reliever for Shoppach or organizational fodder, go for it. But there’s no way I’d want this team to have to trade real prospects for a reliever.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, this almost guarantees a BRAWLFENSE < 8.7

so, that’s certainly something to consider…

Think Mark Lemke wants to try throwing the knuckleball again?

by CBJones on Jan 17, 2011 5:22 PM EST reply actions  

Todd Coffey would fit in pretty well, actually.

Full discloser: that’s from Brew Crew Ball. Not my own skillz.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 17, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Russell, Gomes and Ramos

   Are the crew our scouting department liked. Lets see what they can do. We have 5 vets, McGee and possibly Archer as wild cards once we see what we have. If we don’t go into the season with a “name” closer more Yank-Sox yahoo’s will underestimate us for the 4th straight year which will make winning even sweeter.

 Is there a reason Rauch was the last kid picked for the kickball game? Maybe I give AF to much rope but I think if he really wanted the Big guy he would have gotten him at that price. I feel he likes the pen he has put together and loves the arms he has creeping up in the minors.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 5:37 PM EST reply actions  

Not good.

If I told any of you the best relief pitcher we’d be signing this off season would be Kyle Farnsworth, no one would have (a) believed me or (b) been happy.

by RaysTheRoof on Jan 17, 2011 6:04 PM EST reply actions  

maybe one of Friedman's deals or future deals has him pulling another rabbit out of his ass

but nothing looks that damn great in the pen all in all. Ramos has great potential, little experience…same for McGee—if they actually use him in the pen. Peralta is a fly ball pitcher coming off a career season (although his fly ball tendencies fit well with Tropicana), and Farnsworth, well, who the hell knows how he’ll do in the AL East? All these moves looked better if they added another late-inning piece, ala Fuentes/Rauch. Without one it looks thin, and against the odds. But Friedman’s done pretty well in playing the odds early on in his GM career. I hope he didn’t test his luck with this one.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 17, 2011 6:26 PM EST reply actions  

Fuentes would have been a bad move

if Wheeler was overpaid last year, Fuentes is too.

by Navi's_Navy on Jan 17, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

at 2/10+?

yeah, Fuentes is a ridiculous overpay.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

If it's that bad what impact would Rauch have really had, then?

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

reducing uncertainty?

I mean, I’m not a fan of Rauch at more than 3.5MM, either, but he does bring the kind of certainty that would allow you to —

1) use Rauch as the stereotypical “closer” a la Troy Percival 2008;
2) use your best reliever (McGee?) in your highest leverage situations a la J.P. Howell 2008;
3) use Kyle Farnsworth in low leverage situations; and
4) hedge against complete flops by Russell, Ramos, and possibly others.

Right now I’m honestly wondering who our “closer” will be — not because I care, or because I’d use a reliever that way, but because Joe Maddon will. If you go by the ‘experience’ argument, it’ll be Farnsworth (and that has all the hallmarks of disaster). It could be McGee, which would probably be a suboptimal use of our likely best relief pitcher. I suppose it could be Russell — he’s got the typical closery look to him.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

1) Rauch has a 4.53 xFIP in high leverage over the course of his career that he gets down to 4.16 (4.70 in medium) in low leverage

He truly could be our Troy Percival, but I’m confident you could throw a Brignac out there on the hill and it would serve the same purpose.
2) McGee should be kept as a starter so that he has real value whether it’s via trade or as an injury replacement, it would be hard to stretch him back out so keep him a starter for now
3) In his career (mind you I’m not talking about the last two years where he has been even better) Farnsworth has an xFIP of 4.04 in High leverage (3.38 and 3.84 in middle and low leverage, respectively), perhaps you want to re-evaluate whom you want throwing the pill when it matters
4) We’re hedging against those guys by having all the signings, between Cesar’s, Wade, the names you mentioned, arms on the farm (not high value, but filler) we’ve already diversified our portfolio quite well. Some guys will tank out and some will wildly exceed expectations, most will fall around their career norms if used appropriately

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

RE: 2

What if McGee does start the year in the bullpen, but as the long reliever instead of a one inning reliever. Only let him pitch 4-5 innings, give him full rest, and let him be a spot starter if (when) a starter gets hurt. Good way to build up his innings and monitor him. Only problem: is the bullpen too shallow already to give him up in high-leverage situations.

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.

by staplemaniac on Jan 17, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It seems like the Rays precedent isn't to really do that

It seems like they like to give them a cup of coffee that might either be in the pen or as an injury-replacement in the rotation. I don’t necessarily agree with that as I prefer more of the Earl Weaver-type that let’s them get even more time in the bullpen to get acclimated. We haven’t done that yet and what you’re proposing would be something I’d like to see. With all of this in mind, it’s hard to argue with how effective the team has been in promoting players, monitoring pitches, and keeping guys on the field. McGee would be perfect in that role, and if we can find a trading partner for Sonny, we might even see him fill it.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe...

Maybe this is the year we convert some of those marginal starting pitcher prospects to major league bullpen arms? (I’m looking at you, Aneury)

by nomoredevil on Jan 17, 2011 6:30 PM EST reply actions  

I'd wager he'll be back

…but I’d also wager he’s not a viable major-league arm. I’m a numbers guy, but watching him at Durham in 2010, his FB was sitting 85-ish, and his secondary offerings were not MLB viable. I know, a) I’m not a scout, and b) SSS, but… yeah, I figured out why the front office has left him unprotected each of the past two years.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Not an expert...

On the astros but they have 4 starters if you count Norris and only pen arm that stands out to me as I write this is Lyon. So if he doesn’t make that team, he probably won’t help us here.

by Cpseudo3 on Jan 17, 2011 8:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

yeah

I agree, I just think that A.Rodriguez doesn’t really fit the profile of the guys who tend to stick around via the Rule 5 because him arm is really, really unimpressive. So you’re sitting there thinking, “okay, it’s not like carrying him this year is worth it to get a crack at his upside,” because there isn’t any perceived upside. So the question will be whether he sufficiently dominates the competition in the spring such that the Astros think they’re a better team in 2011 with A.Rodriguez in their bullpen than without.

That’s certainly possible, but I don’t think it’s supremely likely.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Any possibility that the lack of perceived competitiveness of the 2011 Rays

May be driving away RPs since Friedman does short deals or won’t overpay so they don’t want to waste a potential year out of their careers.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 17, 2011 6:39 PM EST reply actions  

If I were AF

I’d just chant “Show me the money” over and over again.

Seriously: Rays relievers got what, 800 billion dollars on the free agent market this year?

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's about 70M

Or last year’s payroll about.

Pretty lol-worthy

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 17, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Goes both ways

The precieved easier path to closing games should draw guys like Rauch to us.

by Cpseudo3 on Jan 17, 2011 8:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

To put it simply...

How can Rays management expect us to spend OUR money on the team when they won’t spend THEIR money on the team?

by psuguy62 on Jan 17, 2011 6:48 PM EST reply actions  

because they have spent THEIR money this past year without us spending OUR money in 2010

and in the two years before it. Not saying Rays fans don’t care, not saying it’s not for legitimate reasons, but Rays FO has more than done its part.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 17, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I certainly did...

Season tickets for four years…..$9000 bucks a year. So, that’s not true for season ticket holders.

by psuguy62 on Jan 17, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody asked you to become a member of the Whitney Bank Club or whatever it's called now

You can get in the stadium for under a G and the beauty of 15K fans is that you can sit wherever you want. Even if it’s packed it’s not like the upper deck doesn’t give a great view of the game. You should probably leave soon I saw your high horse got off the post.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

damn, i should get into meteorology.

Soon to be the next uprooted Rays fan displaced to Chicago?

by pudieron89 on Jan 18, 2011 7:30 AM EST up reply actions  

How can they expect us to go to their church of baseball, when they won't even go to OUR church of the trinity

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You off your nut

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe Shoppach can be sent to Oakland for a spare arm?

Rays agree to pay all of Shoppach’s 2011 salary in return? They are looking for a backup catcher.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 17, 2011 6:52 PM EST reply actions  

I like having a vet catcher

 Jaso and my main man Robinson Chirinos have 114 games between them. I still believe Shop will hit with some power. But if we can get the upper hand ,move him.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 7:00 PM EST reply actions  

Shoppach can still hit LHP which we need

I think he was worth .4WAR last year & he had a terrible year. Could do a lot better seeing less RHP and maybe not being hurt(knee injury might’ve been a cause for his decline)

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 17, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I imagine Chirinos can do just as good of a job hitting LHP, though

And by most reports he’s a better defender. I say if we can fetch a decent reliever for Shoppach, do it.

by BaconBits on Jan 17, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Shoppach owns Lefties

.286 .381 .568 lifetime, 21 homers in 308 ab’s.

 Its not to late for the 2008 Shoppach to show up.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

If we can fetch anything for Shoppach, do it.

Chirinos is 4 years younger and under team control for the next 6 years.

I don’t see a reason to spend 3 mil on a backup catcher who is almost definitely going to spend some time on the DL this season.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Jan 17, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

If we have to pay his salary in the deal then might as well keep him

because he should be better against lefties than our other options and could fil out the RHH part of a DH platoon.

by Navi's_Navy on Jan 17, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

One more oddball name

This isn’t based on a lot of evidence, but I’d think Jeremy Bonderman’s stuff would play well out of the bullpen. If his price falls enough (and you’d have to think the Jeff Francis deal sets a $2MM ceiling), he’d fit into the Rays’ budget.

Worth a thought, anyway.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 17, 2011 7:28 PM EST reply actions  

Time to steal one from the Yankees

Alfredo Aceves would be a nice low risk/high reward sign. Kind of under the radar guy AF looks for.

by budman3 on Jan 17, 2011 7:42 PM EST reply actions  

That fool is 14-1 lifetime

He is worth a shot if we are patient ala Beniot.

Got this from River Ave Blues
http://riveraveblues.com/tag/alfredo-aceves/

" Not only did Ace miss basically all of the 2010 season due to disc issues in his back, he recently had surgery to repair a broken collarbone suffered during a bike accident. The rehab from that will have him behind in Spring Training".

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Chris Ray

As bpoe13 mentioned above, I would give Chris Ray a call. He doesn’t have the stuff that he once had, but is still serviceable.

by crawdelli on Jan 17, 2011 8:05 PM EST reply actions  

Fuck the Rays and their $30 million dollar payroll pretending they're trying to contend

Let’s go grab three more guys named Caeser and stave off the O’s

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 17, 2011 8:07 PM EST reply actions  

Lets stop pretending that Jon Rauch is someone worth spending a fucking dime on for a second

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Farny is more of a power arm than Rauch....so that's a positive, no?

I think we’re all disappointed by this one, though.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 17, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll take some sort of Frans v Rauch wager, since they're both hittable as hell. Got to factor in leverage though since right now it looks like Farny is our back end (ugh)

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I do have an answer for that, I'm not. I hated the Farnsworth signing, and I think Rauch would be more of the same. We don't need to spend money on two of the same imo.

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Well done

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent post

I’ve gone ahead and sent this in as your submission to the writing contest.

@RealNolenBailey

by Hatfield on Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe

This next season is going to be the most interesting one for me. I haven’t been this excited since 2008. The Rays are back to being the underdog. I love underdogs. Farnsworth isn’t what we wanted but If he pans out, there’s gonna be a lot of people eating their words. But I digress, The 2011 Rays are going to be fun to watch regardless. So sit back and enjoy your chance at seeing Hellboy, DJ and McGee for the season. I know I will.

Go Rays!

by Thermacold on Jan 17, 2011 8:47 PM EST reply actions  

Were we the favorites last year? I'm pretty sure everybody on earth (including this blog) predicted us to finish 3rd in the east

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

No

But the same thing is happening. Well. A little worse. I’m sure more than a few are predicting us below 3rd.

Go Rays!

by Thermacold on Jan 17, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

We are like a college basketball team in 2011

Wait until Jennings, Hellickson and McGee are sophmores then we will make a run at the NC.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

MLB trade rumors..

Thames about to sign with Dodgers and LA is also about to offer minor lg deal to Gabe Kapler!

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 8:50 PM EST reply actions  

The point of signing a guy that can't field or hit same-handers is that they are cheap, let's see what the terms are before we bemoan this loss

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I know, I know

The Rauch signing has put me in a bad mood.

by nomoredevil on Jan 17, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Rauch is just the flavor of the week, he'll be off your mind in no time and you won't miss him, especially for that dough.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

But those tattoos....

And that entrance video in Minnesota….

And that goatee….

And being 7 foot 9…

@RealNolenBailey

by Hatfield on Jan 17, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Flavor of the week?

FIP of 3.38, 3.96, 3.88, 2.94. During that time his HR rate has decreased from 1.38 to 0.77 to 0.47. He was a solid arm for Minnesota last year. He signed for a very reasonable deal. A good deal. A deal that would even fit the Rays budget. A low risk deal. Don’t bash this as a flavor of the week. Throughout the offseason people targeted Rauch as a perfect Rays candidate.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 17, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody gave a shit until he was the last guy out there

I hope him and Dotel get lit up like a Christmas tree.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2011 8:43 AM EST up reply actions  

He's a useable arm, but he's not the savior and for 3.75 he can kiss my black ass

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Odds we sign ANY of the following?

Vladdy, Manny or Damon?

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 17, 2011 9:01 PM EST reply actions  

slim-I think we would have signed one by now

 I’m predicting we will trade for a bat. Someone youngerand cheaper who owns a glove and plays multiple postions.

  I would love Manny hitting after Longoria but we passed on him last year and we are in the middle of Jan and have not yet scooped him up.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Neither has anyone else

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

2 of those 3 are Boras agents

which take extra long to sign. He’s probably asking for a lot of money for Manny/Damon for their production. Even after 2008 Manny didn’t sign until almost the start of ST. Just the annoying part of his negotiations.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 17, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Odds favor Dye-like Signing

I think that Guerrero will be too pricey, the Rays don’t want to take a chance on Manny, and Damon is a possibility only because he wants to play here. I wish that he were right handed but at least he hits LH pitching decently. We know that the Rays at least dined Sheffield. If they were willing to entertain that option, it seems that we can count out Vladi – reverse psychology as I would really like to see him here.

by crawdelli on Jan 17, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Trades Happen

I still think Napoli gets traded (perhaps to the Rays) which would work to open a spot for Guerrero in Anaheim.

by crawdelli on Jan 17, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Because he's a very good hitter?

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Define very good hitter

And set to make about 5 million in arbitration this year is he worth giving up talent for to be a DH?

by budman3 on Jan 17, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He's been worth almost 3 wins 3 years in a row despite sporadic PT and abysmal defense

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Point taken

But is he worth having to give up decent talent for when the Rays could just as well sign Vlad/Manny without trading away chips and only be committed to each for one year(instead of two for Napoli)?

by budman3 on Jan 17, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont know that it takes that much to get him though

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Does this work for you?

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Though I think I like this one better

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Napoli

He hits LH pitching exceptionally well. He is a RH hitter who can play 1B (we have none save Zobrist), C (Shoppach – meh) or DH. He is pricey however.

by crawdelli on Jan 17, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Danjo is 1B

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

We still have the most ab's to offer.

What else do you look for in a 1yr deal?

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Jan 17, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

cash

 I think Manny is getting in shape and waiting for a torn acl somewhere. He either wants no part of our 1/3-5 mil right now or AF is just not that into him.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

They why did Thome turn down more guaranteed money to play for Minnesota?

At this stage in their careers (Manny, Damon, Vlad, ect) I doubt money is all that much of an issue. Not on a 1yr deal.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Jan 17, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Why the hold up if its not about $$$$$

  Manny and Damon have both said they would like to play here. If its not about money and we have the ab’s and AF wants them then why aren’t they here?

 The big 3 are either waiting until ST for injuries,arrests, whatever or we have other things in the works and haven’t made a decent offer until we explore other trade options.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Boras=Money

  I think AF is out there looking for the next Carlos Pena, Zobrist, Jayson Werth, Nick Swisher or Jose Bautista.

  This is the time of year he has made a name for himself.

  My gut tells me that they feel Vlad and Manny are injury risks and Damon can’t play the field, has lost his speed and bats lefty.

 Are these three stop gaps or would they help us win for next 3-4 years like Pena did?

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Soria may be the only closer worth trading for

As a premier closer, owed only 4 million dollars next season and under control for three more years at below an elite closer contract(with .75 million dollar buyouts), he fits the Rays needs and budget. But would AF trade away a top pitching prospect and more for him? It would still leave plenty of room to add two bats this winter, IMO.

by budman3 on Jan 17, 2011 9:31 PM EST reply actions  

Royals reportedly turned down Montero for Soria

Which, if true, would be bilateral stupidity of the highest order.

by AndrewTorrez on Jan 18, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Trade Partners

It seems that the odds of a trade have increased significantly. The Angels and Rangers seems to be decent possiblities. Would the Rangers be willing to exchange the same package previously discussed for Garza (Francisco, Holland and the lesser Beltre) in a deal for Upton, moving Hamilton to LF? I still think the Angels and Rays could also do a deal with Napoli and maybe a young pitcher or two coming to the Rays in exchange for Upton.

by crawdelli on Jan 17, 2011 9:36 PM EST reply actions  

Since we're sort of talking closers...

Tell me why it would be a bad idea to make McGee the closer? I realize it may not make the most of his potential, but 1) the rotation is tough to crack right now, and there is more help coming, and 2) closers are generally overpaid. Making McGee the closer would lock in a lower cost at an overpaid position.

by nomoredevil on Jan 17, 2011 10:05 PM EST reply actions  

I think McGee has as good a shot as anyone

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

They just don't wanna close the door on him yet

I think he goes to the pen, but make sure he gets his chance at starting first

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 17, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Just a thought

Maybe the Rays are saving some money now to try to sign one of the young guys to a long term deal. They signed Zobrist 4/22/10 and Longo 4/18/08. There are a LOT of players on this team I’d like to have Zobrist-like deals.

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.

by staplemaniac on Jan 17, 2011 10:11 PM EST reply actions  

Split the difference and sign BJer on 4/20

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Would you sign him for 4/20 on 4/20?

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.

by staplemaniac on Jan 17, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

God willing

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, this isn't making sense

This just doesn’t feel like Freidman to sit on his ass while all the good relievers left sign cheaply, when he was on the radio, he said 2 relievers like it was a fact, not a goal. One was Farnsworth, I really think Friedman has a trade in the works for the other.

The other thing I wanted to say is last season, we went almost all year with 1 leftie and it was Randy Choate. This year we can go with just McGee for 2 weeks, then add Howell and both of them can come in for the tough leftie but stay in for the righties.

Sonnanstine, Russell, Peralta, Wade, Farnsworth, McGee and Howell(Ramos at the beginning of the season.

I am not sure about Wade at this point so I hope I am right about that trade. But those 7, considering how we haven’t done much and everyone has left, isn’t half bad.

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:16 PM EST reply actions  

Two words

Mark Hendrickson

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

He's why I wanted Rauch

Rauch, Russell, Hendrickson and Niemann would make a awesome basketball team. Well, they would get a lot of rebounds anyway.

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If I remember, it was 1-2 relievers and 1-2 hitters.

Although he may have said more things since that quote.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 17, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

IIRC only 1 reliever was "in the next couple days" and that was Farnsworth. Offseason ain't over yet

The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "I am going to deem your kids as a POS"

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

On Sonnanstine

 He will get a raise tuesday. Do you think he is more valuable to us as a trade chip as another teams 4th-5th starter then he is as our long man? Could we wheel him for a better pen arm or part of a deal for a young 1st baseman? The kid in Cincy maybe?

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yonder?

No way

Sonny would be a throw in if we ever got Alonso

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Angels and Rays are "in on Damon"

Which team that missed almost all their offseason targets will sign him? I am gonna go with neither

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:33 PM EST reply actions  

Don't know who the Rays have targted.

But the strategy seems to be the last one standing could be the cheapest to sign.

by budman3 on Jan 17, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Or he could be the last option left

That someone overpays in desperation.

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

To those on the McGee for Starter bandwagon...how come?

I get that he’d be more valuable as a starter, but it hasn’t sounded to me recently like his repertoire is deep enough to start. A crazy fastball, and a curveball and change. Then again, I guess if one of those other pitches was viewed as a plus and the third was a see-me, that’d still work with his fastball.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 17, 2011 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

I don't agree with it either

Maybe he would make a good SP but the guy has 1 plus pitch, 1 average pitch and 1 “show me” pitch, that screams Scott Kazmir after losing his slider but if he pitches 1 inning, that fastball should be enough.

Not to mention, we have the Alex’s and Archer a call away and Sonny in emergency

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

his curveball is the plus pitch. If anything his fastball is only considered above average

but I don’t necessarily agree with that

He has two plus pitches in the fastball and curveball along with a usable change that developed unexpectedly despite the time off. It still isn’t where it needs to be, but it is farther along than before the injury when people had him as top 20 prospect in all of baseball (as a starter). There is more than enough here, in terms of his repertoire, to start if given the opportunity. The main arguments that lend to his bullpen candidacy is that he is a guy who gets a good boost in velocity from not having to pace himself, and he has durability concerns as a guy who came back from Tommy John, but the potential of having a #2 starter, even if it means a closer, is too much. If he proves he can’t stay healthy, or that his stuff deteriorates under an increased workload, or if his change really doesn’t develop into a usable major league third pitch, then consider it. I definitely wouldn’t make the move now, though.

by Navi's_Navy on Jan 19, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

this

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.

by staplemaniac on Jan 19, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

The main reason is to keep his trade value at a peak

If he’s a starter than you can go into negotiations and say we have Niemann/Davis or a younger guy like McGee. Teams would rather give a little more to get a guy that has more “upside” whatever that is. I would say all three of these guys have pretty similar value at this point, but if you move him to the pen then he loses a ton of value. We’re in no rush with him, and it’s not something the team has done before. They’ve always allowed a guy to prove that they couldn’t hack it as a starter. McGee hasn’t proven that yet.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I follow you Hellicks but....

Have we ever had this kind of pitching depth before?

 We could turn Archer and Jake into Rob Dibble and Norm Charlton or Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell and ride the left/right duel closers and young starters to the series like those two teams did.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Career WAR

Dibble: 12.9
Charlton: 12.2
Orosco: 13.2
McDowell: 5.3
Shields: 16.6

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

But you only have 5 starters

  Gotta have all hands on deck when the window is open wide.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't realize our window was closing some time soon, looks like the team is set to see what's going to work this year

and plug up what doesn’t going into next year. Hence, why throw a ton of money at bullpen.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

You will throw less $ at the pen

 If we use our own prospects out there.
 We can’t do a Soriano deal this year so we have to find our own. I just don’t see how our pen will be strong enogh in the AL east without help from below. McGee or Archer may be the answer. They will still have great value if we have to move someone down the road. WS teams are full of young pitchers who came out of the pen then started later.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm just really confused by all this

don’t use prospects as relievers—that’s bad value. Don’t draft relievers because they don’t have high ceilings—that’s bad value. Don’t pay big money on the free agent market for relievers—that’s bad value.

How then, do you field a good bullpen? Oakland has done a hell of a job developing arms in their pen. Texas has done some of the same. It would be nice if we could turn some of these extra arms into a very good pen. Having one in-house, with all of his controlled (cheap) years available saves the Rays a hell of a lot of money and allows them to filter it elsewhere. McGee has also taken a shine to the bullpen.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 18, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

You find them with a cat litter scoop on the free agent market

You have to sift through and see what stays and what goes. I’m at the point where I don’t see any reliever being worth real money since they’re either going to get hurt or be ineffective. The chance of a “historically consistent” reliever having a shutdown, great year, is only marginally higher than some bum that’s battled arm injuries and ineffectiveness.

Paying for a bullpen is dumb, especially in a reloading year. Losing a year of service time for a great prospect due to bullpen commitments is dumb. Throw retreads and unknowns out there. Do you really see Jon Rauch or Brian Fuentes contributing more than 1 WAR more than Peralta, Farnsworth, or even a guy like Cory Wade?

Acting like it’s the end of the world because we didn’t get Jon friggin Rauch, the man of a 4.41 xFIP after facing nearly 2,000 batters is dumb. From 2001 – 2010 here’s some guys that had an xFIP of 4.41, would you consider any of them to be a shutdown reliever:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2010&month=0&season1=2001
Some familiar names around that mark:
Manny Delcarmen 4.39
Matt Guerrier 4.40
Cory Wade 4.28
Tony Pena 4.37
Esteban Yan 4.38

I could go on, but when Esteban Yan has a better xFIP than you, then you’re not very good. Rauch has nearly a 50% fly-ball rate in his career and a HR/FB of 7.7%. If you buy into a season where he sees that regress to a more normal rate it’s gonna be Balfour 2009 all over again. I don’t want to pay money for that. Farnsworth has an xFIP of 3.76 in his career while displaying 10% fewer fly-balls and is right where you would expect in HR/FB at 11.5%. Rauch’s gonna get rocked up in the homerdome.

We already added Witasick to our team and that worked out swimmingly.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Rauch has nearly a 50% fly-ball rate in his career and a HR/FB of 7.7%.

This is a point I brought up when Rauch was being discussed originally. His HR/9 is due for regression, especially with the flyball rate he has.

by firemangreg on Jan 19, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Rauch's availability was the allure...

In a very dwinding market. But so were relievers who had impressive xFIP this winter. Jenks(3.24),Bell(3.18),Soria(3.24), Joel Hanrahan(3.57), Scott Downs(3.59), Farnsworth(3.76) and even Fuentes(4.00).

Now the Rays obviously weren’t going to spend the money that some of these guys got or whether they were even available, but they still could be in play(via trade) at some point. And if it took some prospects to facilitate a trade for one of them(and the right partner was found) it should still be an option for AF if it made the team significantly better. Waiting for an in-house solution is infinitely less expensive and could work out but that should not preclude a team from rolling the dice, especially if they have the time and talent to take that chance.

by budman3 on Jan 19, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

But the other side of the theory

McGee and Davis were working through the system together for years, would be something awesome about seeing them both in the rotation.

If the Rangers want Shields and they wanna give us Engel Beltre, Frank Fransico and Chris Davis, I would take it.

AF would never deal 2 SP’s in 1 offseason though unless maybe if he emptied the teams system which he wont do for anyone except Price and um…..no

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

He is basically untouchable anyway

Now that we moved Garza, none of the current 5 are going anywhere until next year at the earliest. Heh, Price – Hellickson – Davis – Neimann – Archer/Torres/Cobb

Wow, just wow and that 3 way battle would be with Moore getting very close.

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Fireman

 Earl Weaver once had Scott McGregror, Mike Flannagan and Denny Martinez in his pen. If we are gonna be in it based on pitching and defense we have to get our best guys with the biggest upside on the field. If injuries or change comes later we can adapt thanks to the deepest farm east of KC.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 10:36 PM EST reply actions  

We need to absolutley kill it in this draft

And move ahead of that crazy KC system.

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a stupid competition, I'd be thrilled if we get 3-4 useable pieces out of the draft.

So, so many guys crash and burn, even early on.

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Uconn has some big time players

 2 look like top 10 picks and one in top 100. I will keep my eyes on them this year.

by sinkhole on Jan 17, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope we'd get more than 3-4

I think 3-4 is the standard “good/great” unless you nail like a superstar

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 17, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

With absolutley no knowledge of the draft or who will be around

I will guess our best player winds up coming from Soriano. That 31st pick will be golden, I just like that number because O’Conner will be awesome.

Under construction

by joeybw on Jan 17, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

4 average-to-above players out of the first 90 would be an absolute bully of a draft

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 17, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

It’s hard to get 2-3 out of a draft. If you can get 4 guys who have the potential to be higher-end players, then you’ve done great. That’s 24 cost-controlled seasons. That’s a hell of a lot of cheap labor.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 18, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

We will still NEED...

…TO SIGN the Picks we have acquired this offseason come Draft time to see which ones will pan out or not.
I’m fine with saving the $$$ for this seasons’ team if they go hard after every one of their picks in the draft…even if means going over slot.

by MikeyA on Jan 18, 2011 4:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I trust AF

if he wagers another RP than fine but i think we have learned that he is more canny than what people give him credit for.

by OneTonneBaby on Jan 18, 2011 4:35 AM EST reply actions  

Yes

But i still think he needs to prove himself as a reliever. I would prefer for him to start in Durham.

On the point of Jake i think we should give him the closers job. i dont see him fitting into the rotation any time soon and if he nailed down 35 saves in his first season it sure would rise his stock…possibly more than a below average starter.

by OneTonneBaby on Jan 18, 2011 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I've already called dibs on Bush as my sleeper for the pen.

If John Jaso somehow strikes out, it means you didn’t do your job right as an umpire.
by raysrule44 on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 PM CDT

by Vin on Jan 18, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Farnsworth is not the answer

"yes, I see now how that is true A lot of talk about the appropriateness of the contract over at DRaysBay. Many reactions like mine that it sounds like too much, but headier people have commented that it looks like a below-market contract for a reliever. I didn’t have the heart to tell them that he can’t pitch later than the 7th inning if the Rays have a lead – I guess they’ll figure that out on their own."

http://www.royalsreview.com/2011/1/12/1930958/sabermetric-community-rocked-by-the-rays-signing-kyle-farnsworth

by 2005RaysFan on Jan 18, 2011 12:03 PM EST reply actions  

What do the Royals know about having leads after the 7th inning?

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.

by staplemaniac on Jan 18, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

While the success of the Rays

has been fantastic the last 3 years, it was a very short 3 years when the Rays and Royals were at the same level. The Royals are the only team currently with a farm system ranked higher than the Rays, the future does look bright in 2012 and beyond. Sometimes arrogance may better be left to the Yanks and Sox fans who have the silver spoon.

by 2005RaysFan on Jan 18, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

When was Farnsworth in KC again?

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.

by staplemaniac on Jan 18, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

/rhetorical

Founding member of the Leslie Anderson fan club. This support has little merit, but if he's ever any good then I called it.

by staplemaniac on Jan 18, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

They at least knew enough

that Farnsworth was not part of their bridge to the highly effective Joakim Soria. Farnsworth was a disaster when the Royals tried to use him as a set up man. If the Rays use him as the Braves and Royals did as a guy to eat meaningless innings-you will get solid production. If the Rays are asking for more-watch out…

http://chop-n-change.com/2010-articles/october/2010-season-in-review-kyle-farnsworth.html

" As much as Braves fans despise him for what ended his first tenure in Atlanta (the nightmare in Houston in the NLDS), he was still an effective pitcher for the team, albeit in low leverage situations."

by 2005RaysFan on Jan 18, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

It looks like FG is backing up what you're saying, they've got the Professor throwing 6.1 innings of high leverage last year and 4.1 in 2009

I just don’t know if managers get supremely gunshy about him or what. In his career he’s got a 3.80 FIP in high leverage that goes up a bit to 4.04. The big difference appears to be his walks increase a bit. It’s going to sound cliche, but is it just that he’s a mental midget that can’t handle the spotlight or what? The numbers seem pretty sound and it doesn’t look like he’s even prone to giving up the big fly. Does he just get more nibbley?

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

If this helps at all

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=278&position=P&season=0

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

4.04 xFIP, I'm going to fire my editor

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 18, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

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