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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Longo Third Manny Fourth


I am reading a ton of opinions about Manny Ramirez and Longo............who will bat third and fourth.  Can someone give me the stats on why Longo should bat third or fourth?   Has Manny ever batted third?  i always remember him batting 4th for the sox.............Longo third with Manny protecting him makes sense to me BUT i can be swayed the opposite direction.  Rumors are swirling about Maddon not being sure what he is going to do.

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Mad Dumb picks his lineups out of a hat

Moose out front shoulda told ya

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 26, 2011 9:20 PM EST reply actions  

I get it!

See, cause his name is “Maddon,” right? So it’s like “Maddon,” only with “dumb.” Cause, see, “Maddon” is “dumb.” It’s brilliant!

by nomoredevil on Jan 28, 2011 8:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't Manny bat third in front of Ortiz?

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on Jan 26, 2011 9:26 PM EST reply actions  

I'm torn on this one.

On one hand, I like to have the guy with the best OBP hitting in the first inning every time. On the other hand, whichever one is hitting cleanup is likley to get pitched around, and Manny is more likley to take a walk than Longo. I’m leaning towards Longo hitting third and Manny fourth.

by BaconBits on Jan 26, 2011 10:10 PM EST reply actions  

Zobrist, Damon, Manny, Longo

I spent all of 10 seconds thinking about this.

Topper rarely shows his ignorance, but today is a golden day

Hell yeah it is.

by DeadeyeRR on Jan 27, 2011 9:09 AM EST reply actions  

Who cares?

Platoon or not, match-ups or not, L/R or not…

I would like to see what the Rays offense would do if Maddon kept hitters in the same spot in the line-up for more than two games in a row. Let his players know where they will hit in the line-up(always lead-off or second, 5th, 8th or 9th) wherever….and let them get accustomed to the expectations in those roles on a consistent basis.

I think it will lead to a much more consistent offensive attack through out the year than with all the shifting Maddon has done in the past, IMO.

by budman3 on Jan 27, 2011 9:57 AM EST reply actions  

Get accustomed to the the expectations in those rolls.

Whether someone is batting 9th, 1st, or 5th, the expectations should not change. I doubt the number nine hitter walks up to the plate thinking. “I dont need a hit. Im just the useless number nine guy.” Ive made this point before on another issue, but it remains the same. I think that as professional baseball players, if you cant adapt to the situations youre placed in, then you should just GTFO.

by ballsdeep187 on Jan 27, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

You mean like when he had BJ leading off for first half of 2009?

Failed experiment and there’s nothing wrong with that. If anything, it proved that maybe BJ was not a productive lead-off hitter, coming off a year in 2008 where he hit 2nd in 48 games, hit in the thrid spot 67 games, and batted 5th in 20 games.(and only hit lead-off in 6 games). That was followed up last year with the merry-go-round BJ..lead-off 37 games, 6th spot in 52 games, 7th spot in 27 games, and 8th in 29 games. I’ve got my issues with BJ but, IMO, he is exactly the type of fragile pshche player that needs to be left alone in one hitting spot so he can concentrate on what the team expects him to do as a hitter. And there is most defintely an approach that a player will take hitting in certain places in the line-up.

BTW, Ben Zobrist in his big 2009 season, was a middle of the order hitter. He hit clean-up in 51 games, hit 5th in 45 games and batted 6th in 26 games. Last season…he struggled, hitting lead-off in 27 games, 2nd in 33 games, third in 41 games, 5th in 23 games, 6th in 13 games. What kind of year did he have?

Pena in 2008 hit 3rd in 61 games, clean-up in 59 games and 5th in 16 games in a solid campaign. 2009 before he was hurt he hit clean-up in 102 games and 5th in 20 others. He was quite productive although the shift styarting get into his mind. Last season, as he struggled with his swing and the shift again, he was moved around(and maybe with just cause). He hit clean-up in 48 games, 5th in 63 games,6th in 11 games and way down in 7th in 19 games. Maybe deservedly so that he was dropped but does anyone think it helped him?

I’m all for having a flexible line-up and Maddon certainly has the players to maneuver around. And I will not question the results. But the Rays, despite winning have had a very inconsistent offense through the last three seasons. I don’t care that they score the thiurd highest number of runs last season, because there were weeks that they couldn’t hit themselves out of a bag and they lost games. While I think that the platoon system sometimes is overused, it does work but I think it hinders some players development(Rodriquez, Brignac, Joyce). I can accept it much more though, if Maddon’s line-up was more consistent in where he placed(and kept) hitters in those line-ups, even with platooning. A productive hitting approach, which I think some Rays have lack, is mainly becasue they get shifted around so much on a daily basis. There is a mind set to being a lead-off hitter(taking more pitches, being patient, concentrating on getting on, as oppossed to the 3rd place hitter who is looking to drive runs in using the entire field, or the 5th place hitter who may look to drive the ball more with power to pick up runs, or the 8th/9th place hitter looking to extend innings various way.

Sure, it’s not an absolute answer to having a consistently productive offense..you have to have the right players with the right talent in your line-up. But I think a team can maximize that talent when players know what their role is in the line-up(what is expected of them, if you may) and are given the chance to consistently hit in those spots

by budman3 on Jan 27, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd

Exactly what i was thinking.

by AUSSIExRULES on Jan 27, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

The good hitters didn't get moved much

If they hit better, we’d have a clearer line up. But they don’t so it forces him to keep changing it.

PIZZA?!?

by Transplanted on Jan 27, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I vote for this in the WC

www.draysbay.com, www.bloombergsports.mlblogs.com, Twitter @trancel

by Tommy Rancel on Jan 27, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Good thought process.

Topper rarely shows his ignorance, but today is a golden day

Hell yeah it is.

by DeadeyeRR on Jan 27, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But dude, the only problem is that NONE of what you're talking about is factually accurate.

It’s been proven that line-up slot – the whole “comfort” thing – has no discernible affect on a player’s performance. It’s a traditionally accepted truth, but it’s wrong. Players that hit higher will get more plate appearances, but that’s basically the extent of how a line-up affects performance.

Zobrist had a bad back last year, so he sucked. It wasn’t because he moved around in the line-up too much. And the Rays inconsistency stemmed from the fact that they had a roster full of strikeout prone players that had the same common weaknesses. You can pretend it was the result of Maddon’s line-up changes, but you’d be wrong.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 27, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

And no, this is not a debate. We can debate opinions, but this is a matter of fact.

From a fan perspective, I can understand like a stable line-up and wanting to see it. But you simply cannot make a valid, factual argument that Maddon’s line-up changes makes the Rays less productive.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 27, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

From a bloke who has been there and done that on a professional level it makes a world of difference.

No stats can tell you how much it effects the everyday dynamics of an individual or a team. You can argue the point that they made the post season, but you can also argue that they didn’t win in it either.
You can also argue that i have no clue what I’m talking about as i was a cricket player and not a baseball player, but they are very similar in nearly all skill levels and as a former player and manager i would think i would have half a clue.

by AUSSIExRULES on Jan 27, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

About cricket. You have half a clue about cricket.

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on Jan 27, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

You can argue the point that they made the post season, but you can also argue that they didn’t win in it either.

Just brutal. Please understand that what happens over 162 games is more factually relevant than what happens over 4 to 18 games or whatever.

by Suttree on Jan 27, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not arguing that batters don't feel more comfortable with a set spot....we're all creatures of habit, so I'm sure they do. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter. Their performance does not actually suffer.

You can pick and choose examples, but that isn’t as rigorous as the research that has already been done on this. The truth is that regardless of what you feel, batters will produce at the same talent level no matter where they are put in the line-up.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 28, 2011 7:48 AM EST up reply actions  

This is your problem.
. I don’t care that they score the thiurd highest number of runs last season,

by ballsdeep187 on Jan 28, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, smelly is the adjective we were looking for, smelly

Hell yeah it is.
Any amount of points can be scored week to week. well, besides 1 point. Any number is as likely to be reached as another, since there’s only one of each number, each has the same chance to be hit. IT’s how the syetemof averages works.
by waltermercier on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Jan 29, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL

smells like success……..great success…LOL

by GiovanniRaysFan on Jan 29, 2011 1:18 PM EST reply actions  

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