The Rays Tanks: Words From Stern, Delmon Young Ressurrection
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 8:05 AM EDT
in The Rays Tank
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Anyone else out there really glad we traded Delmon Young when we did? It briefly looked last season like Young may have put everything together and was beginning to come into his own (.352 wOBA), but his 2011 season has been a pretty large flop (.303 wOBA). And he doesn't have age as an excuse any longer; at 25-years-old, it's quickly reaching the point in his career where he needs to produce or risk fading away.
And yet, somehow, inexplicable, he's one of the big thumpers in the middle of the Tigers' lineup now that Magglio Ordonez is out for the rest of the year. That doesn't bode well for Detroit, who got rolled over by the Rangers last night 7-3.
While the Tigers continue to sink, the Cardinals bounced back last night and beat the Brewers 12-3. Albert Pujols just about single-handedly gave this win to the Cards, which reminds me, holy cow he's going to be a free agent this year.
Rays Chatter
Stuart Sternberg sent out a letter to all the Rays' season ticket holders, and I thought the letter did a good job putting his comments after the season in context. Here's a snippet, but I'd suggest reading the whole thing:
Please do not take my remarks as a complaint -- they were not intended to be. I was not pointing fingers. I was not blaming anyone. I do not mean to sound ungrateful to our fans for their support, and I certainly will not tell anyone how to spend his or her money. I was simply being forthright about a reality that must be faced. It would be easy to assure you and all Rays fans that everything will be fine, but that would be disingenuous.
Addition: And here are some of my thoughts on that letter.
Also, Robinson Chirinos broke a bone "near his right wrist" while playing winter ball in Venezuela. He'll be out 4-6 weeks, which will knock him out of the majority of the winter ball season. Thankfully, it's early enough in the offseason that he should be all healthy well before the season begins, but I'm hoping this injury isn't like a wrist injury, which can sap a player's power for a time even though they're on the field again.
Over at FanGraphs, Mike Newman looked at Desmond Jennings' season. Worth a peek.
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Steve Slow, you must change your avatar for the Beach Bucket or whatever.
Also, you remain forever and always an organizational shill.
With love, pt sutt
@ptSuttery
'Tis true....I need a better photo.
And I’m fine being a shill, considering it seems nearly everyone else wants to hate on Stu. I really thought his letter was well worded, and said a lot of things people needed to hear.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm kinda impressed the reaction to that has been so quiet.
I figured people would want to start shouting again, but I guess we’re all about done with attendance talk right now.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
It's 10am here, Stevesies.
None of the garbage monsters have woken up from their alley way shanties.
@ptSuttery
He's just back peddling a little due to the reaction
He’s still actively repressing attendance and probably under reporting.
@dobbertweets
I don't think it's backpeddling so much as just speaking what he means.
He said many of those exact same thoughts when he emailed me, but didn’t want us to pub them at the time.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
People are going to hear what they want to hear
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 11, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry I should have taken a stab at the area fans for not going.
MY BAD. I’LL STICK TO THE NARRATIVE, COLLETTE
@dobbertweets
The narrative is
You suck
I rule
In all seriousness, I’ve seen some very intelligent people react in downright silly ways to his comments.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 11, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Yurp. Lots of people getting emotional...it's crazy.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear you're not so sure you like Stu anymore?
Or at least, that’s what I saw on Twitter.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here.
He shouldn’t be talking, but I’m not really offended by it. I just hope his decisions he makes with this team are not as reactive as his comments.
It's ok to talk about it, I just didn't like the timing.
Also don’t like how it’s clear they under report/don’t try some simple ideas.
jonahkeri jonahkeri
Josh Freeman refund please.
I dunno if it's "clear" they underreport.
I’ve heard people say both sides — that their attendance numbers are higher than the stadium looks, and vice versa. So until someone can prove things one way or the other, I don’t feel comfortable stating that.
And eh, to play devil’s advocate, it’s not like they haven’t tried at marketing at all. Their promos are considered the best in the bigs, and the concert series is really unique. The early start times bombed, but the idea behind it was to try and help.
So I think they’re trying…I think there are other things they can do to help even more, and I’m hoping maybe we can influence that a bit this offseason. But I wouldn’t say they’re not trying at all with their marketing. Just they could use to do a better job of it.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree 100% on the timing, though...that was unfortunate.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll just start counting attendance at the games by hand.
jonahkeri jonahkeri
Josh Freeman refund please.
Yeah, I don't know how it's possible to really prove one way or the other.
I’m just saying, I’ve heard people feel strongly in both directions - that they’re under or over-reporting. So I dunno.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard more to the under
and from people in the stadium, also my own reactions when they announce it.
jonahkeri jonahkeri
Josh Freeman refund please.
Theres nothing wrong with his comments per se
But the only people who care are the ones who support the team. To non-baseball fans they fall on deaf ears. I’m not sure the comments are productive, but that may not have been their intent.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Oct 11, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree on them maybe not being productive.
Don’t know what they were going to accomplish, if anything make the public react poorly.
jonahkeri jonahkeri
Josh Freeman refund please.
This
Judging from the state of the economy, its not a stretch to say that many of their season ticketholders are spending money that they just don’t have to begin with. Steve said above that Stu said “some things people really needed to hear”. Which is all fine and well, until you consider that these people are his customers. Unless I’m hiring Stu as a personal trainer or motivational speaker, I really don’t give a shit what he thinks I should hear.
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 11, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if they want to become sustainable in the area, the only real way to do so is getting a stadium in Tampa.
Or at least, somewhere more centrally located. And that doesn’t happen until Foster decides it’s in his interest to talk.
So…I also don’t know how useful these comments are in the grand scheme of things. They probably don’t change much. But we should probably gear ourselves up for things getting uglier before they get better, as the only way the Rays get a new stadium is with considerable pressure being put on Foster.
Meh :-/
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly I have doubts as to whether Stu even wants a stadiumin Tampa at this point
At some point there have to be legit doubts as to the market, not just the location.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
This is where I am.
If there were better options, then certainly. But I think a stadium in Tampa is a better situation than most anywhere else you could suggest.
But anyway, isn’t the real problem that Foster isn’t letting them move anywhere? So regardless of if Stu wants to move the team elsewhere or simply to Tampa, they have to clear that obstacle first.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 11, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Northern Jersey/NYC will be adding a team before you know it
Maury Brown’s new piece showed just how big those markets are. http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5459:mlb-ballpark-location-and-the-population-around-it-can-greatly-influence-attendance&catid=26:editorials&Itemid=39
I put it into a chart and at each level you’re talking about NYC having roughly 25% of all the fans within that driving distance:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/SayHeyRays/RaysDrivetime.png
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You mean people that spend thousands of dollars anually for tickets in a down economy when the sensible thing is to save or invest their money in something low risk
Might be emotional? Go figure.
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 11, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd argue you're better off spening in a down economy.
More bang for your buck and uncertain return on investments make saving more profitable than spending.
I always try to do my Keynesian duty and spend.
But then again, I’m in an income bracket where I’m mostly funneling everything back into the economy anyway. And baseball isn’t probably the best bang for your buck, stimulus wise, I suppose.
I'm speaking more to personal gain than macro-effects.
If spending x dollars gives you y enjoyment in a “normal” economy, then in a down economy it’d likely give you z enjoyment which would be greater than y for two reasons: costs of goods are suppressed and relative enjoyment is always compared to your enjoyment versus the group which on the whole is deriving less enjoyment. additionally, with a lower ROI in a recession, the benefit from investing is mitigated making spending even more relatively attractive.
Works For Me
Only concern is that what you’re doing is akin to optimizing run expectancy. It usually works, except for in late innings when win expectancy starts to diverge.
A very down economy is akin to the late innings, where playing for one run (saving) can perhaps avoid homelessness, loss of job on account of no showers, wife leaving you on account of no job, etc.
I think we are getting a lot to easy to throw out the accusations of active repression of attendance and under reporting...
but to stick to the topic at hand about his comments, I do think it was very calculated that he made them at the time he did. They were going to have their greatest impact while the team was on the front page of the paper, waiting to make the statement now probably would register below the fold in the sports section. The timing might have bothered some people, but it was made when it would have its greatest impact.
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 11, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
talk about head hurt
Joe Dobrowski He needs to do more….I have sent you a piece I have done. What Stu Sternberg has became is a DISGRACE to our area. The press is WORKING for Stu!!!
Joe Dobrowski Sounds to me is trying to play both ends against the middle. A complete and utter joke.
Joe Dobrowski Sounds like a man who is being driven by Bud Selig. I don’t believe him at all when he is talking about solutions. He has gone home, gone back to New York and hiding from reality. I can’t disagree more with his strategy. At least he knows there is some serious dissent against him, and I think there is a lot more out there.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 11, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
this
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sternberg was dead-on
I don’t know what the Tampa/St Pete area wants from this guy. Too few fans support the team, and yet everyone complains that we can’t afford to bring in the talent needed to put this team over the top.
If just another 5000 fans per game could be counted on, we could afford another $7-$12 million in players just from the ticket sales. And that’s not considering concessions and other merchandise.
We need to get to the point where we can afford $80-$90 million in player salaries per season, which would put us on par with Detroit, Milwaukee, and possibly even Texas. The new TV deal won’t come up for several (5?) more years, and that’s too long to wait. We have a window of opportunity which should last longer than Oakland’s, but we can learn from the Athletics that you can’t keep doing this long term and hope to be successful.
I sometimes feel like the biggest complainers are the national media
and then the idiot average fans hear it and repeat it.
That’s just how it seems to me sometimes, but again, I’m not from the area, so I don’t really know.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "FUCK THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 11, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
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