The Rays Tank: Player-Managers, Isolated Ballparks, and Theo Epstein To The Cubs?

by Steve Slowinski on Oct 12, 2011 8:02 AM EDT in The Rays Tank

MLB Chatter

First of all, the Tigers beat the Rangers yesterday 5-2 as Doug Fister kept Detroit alive. But as good as that game was, there's even more important news going on right now. That report last night that Theo Epstein was on the verge of going to the Cubs? Yeah, it looks like it's close to a done deal. There's still the matter of ironing out who the Cubs send to Boston in compensation for Epstein, so this could still fall through, but it's looking all but done. And as Charlie Blackwell (Voodoo 5) notes, that can only be a good thing for the Rays.

In goofy news, the White Sox apparently considered Paul Konerko when doing their managerial search, figuring he could serve as a player-manager. I can't think of the last time there was a player-manager in baseball...anyone know? It would certainly be amazing to watch in action, if only for the novelty of it all. And I think the Rays currently have one of the best candidates to pull it off: Sam Fuld.

The Orioles are compiling a list of GM candidates, and it's quite a list so far:

This list includes former Diamondbacks GM and current Padres VP Josh Byrnes, former Astros GM and current Rays' senior VP Gerry Hunsicker, former Blue Jays GM and current Mets' assistant GM J.P Ricciardi, Rangers assistant GM Thad Levine, Blue Jays assistant GM Tony LaCava and Marlins assistant GM Dan Jennings.

Other sources have confirmed all the names except Gerry Hunsicker. I know we're going to lose him at some point, but hopefully it won't be soon.

Rays Talk

There are a large number of fan videos taken in the Trop during Game 162 of the regular season, and I've found myself flipping through those videos on YouTube recently. Here's one that one of our readers submitted to me to get you started.

I could read about Matt Moore for ages, and here's a take on him from Seedling to the Stars. They don't say anything too radical that we don't already know, but it's always fun to see others as impressed by Moore as us.

And then, there's this piece by Maury Brown on the amount of an population within a driving radius of a team's ballpark. If you read nothing else here, take a look at this one. It puts into stark contrast exactly how isolated the Trop currently is, and how much the Rays could stand to improve by moving to Tampa. And it supports my belief that the Rays would be better off in Tampa than moving to virtually any other market. So yeah, check it out.

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Colby Lewis is not good at pitching

Longoria, Upton and Zobrist failed to get the memo

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 12, 2011 8:05 AM EDT reply actions

Theo to the Cubs

The last couple of years the moves made by Theo’s Red Sox do not reflect the kind of moves that I believe a Theo Epstein would make.

How could a right handed power hitting gold glove 3b be left to the free agent market?

How did Jason Varitek ever make it back on to the Red Sox roster as a catcher, a move that had to made out of loyalty and certainly not skill set?

How is a switch hitting catcher/DH in Victor Martinez, someone you gave up a very good starting pitcher (along with two other prospects) able to leave so easily? Even if Victor isn’t a great catcher he is certainly better than Varitek/Salty.

Yet, the Red Sox did win close 90 games each of the last two years.

I hope Theo goes to Chicago and breaks the curse. Let Larry Luccino and his ilk run the Sox right into the ground with poor decisions and let another GM put his name behind the moves.

I can’t wait to read Woody’s take on this.

by MrNegative1 on Oct 12, 2011 8:18 AM EDT reply actions

The saber boys love fest with Theo is crazy

In the area of scouting, drafting and developing the Red Sox have done very well. How much credit goes Theo’s way in that area is unknown.

In signings and trades his record is much more debatable. Lackey, Dice-K, Cameron, not resigning Beltre, Crawford are all examples where he’s failed

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 12, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions

What about signing Beltre in the first place?

Either way, I’ll be glad to see him to the NL as he’s won 2 WS titles in Boston which is something they hadn’t done in almost 100 years.

by rglass44 on Oct 12, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions

very glad to see him go

Don’t get me wrong, I am a Theo fan and believe he can do a very good job just about anywhere. Just don’t believe he did as much on his own as we may be led to believe. This is not a knock on his accomplishments but a knock on the failures of several of the signings that I believe weren’t Theo’s type of maneuver.

Once Francona was removed from manager I predicted that Theo should be removed as well (whether to the Cubs, resigning, or just fired). I’ve felt for awhile something wasn’t right up in that front office and in the coming months I bet we hear more and more revealing stories.

by MrNegative1 on Oct 12, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Not sure I agree on all of these.

Adrian Beltre is a great player, having a great (career?) year. He’s never struck out this little before, and he’s only hit for this type of power once, and that was quite a while ago. And still, he was less valuable by WAR than his replacement with the Sox, Gonzalez. And his replacement at third base, Youkilis, while arguably a worse player, is signed to a very team friendly deal.

As for V-Mart, also a great player, also a great year, but no one is letting him catch regularly. And on the Red Sox, a team with three better batters, he just doesn’t have a spot at 1B or DH.

Probably the Sox would have been best resigning Beltre and moving the injury prone Youk to DH, but I cannot imagine the outcry in Boston if Theo “kicked Ortiz to the curb” like that.

by Whelk on Oct 12, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Signing Crawford and not resigning Beltre was stupid

and that’s not results based. Beltre in Fenway is a no brainer. Crawford is not

Could have had Victor, Beltre and A-Gone for less than A-Gone and Craw

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 12, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions

I'll agree with you there

I couldn’t have been happier when the Sox went with Craw over Werth. Werth woulda had 40 dingers in that bandbox.

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh, absolutely agree on Werth. Thank God.

by Whelk on Oct 12, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I really hope you're right.

But the book isn’t done on Crawford, and I don’t see it as V-Mart/Beltre OR Crawford. The two decisions were independent.

by Whelk on Oct 12, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Mr Sternfan

I believe Theo signed crawford because somebody did not want him going to the Yankees. The problem with the yankees and Redsux is owner interference with the GM.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions

this

by rglass44 on Oct 12, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Pretty sure the Yankees didn't want him to go to the Yankees.

At least, Cashman has intimated as much of late.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Oct 12, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions

You are correct Steve

the yankees did play up wanting Carl, so the Redsux would over pay for him and be saddled with his stupid contract. The yankees have hate for the redsux and play them off and on the field. Some even say that the yankees laid down at the end of the year and let us win. If they indeed did this, it worked out perfectly,because it shook the redsux entire organization.
I did not get to excited about our 7 run comeback,because it reminded me of watching a spring training game, and how the outcome can drastically change when the lineup switches over to the scrubs.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Mr. Landlord, I believe the runs that enabled the bulk of our comeback were against a Mr. Boone Logan who is not a member of the Scranton Yankees anymore.

But the idea of the Yankees laying down to mess up a whole organization is pretty intriguing.

by PreachITBrotha on Oct 12, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Unless you plan on going after AGonz and have nowhere to put Youkilis

Boom. Outta Here.

Follow me on Twitter @RyanGilliss

Also follow my Wolfpack:

by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 12, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Youk

is talented enough to play LF in Fenway. Youk could’ve been offered up as trade for an arm over the winter as well. Youk may be offered up for trade this winter as it is.

The “smart” move was to keep Adrian Beltre, a right handed power bat in Fenway Park playing a gold glove caliber third base. Going out and getting Adrian Gonzalez would’ve still been a smart move. Youk being the odd guy out would of been the smart move.

This smart tag is why I will question whether or not some of the noise the last couple of winters was a top down edict to Theo to maneuver a certain way rather than Theo telling the higher ups how he was going to operate.

Theo will really do a great job in Chicago putting that team together. Wonder if his first order of business is going to be to lock down Aramis at 3b and really sell the Front Office on Fielder or Pujos?

Will Theo be able to convince the owners that it would be best to move forward by eating some of Soriano and Zambrano and trade them both?

It will be a very interesting off-season in Chicago to be sure.

by MrNegative1 on Oct 12, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Their outfield for the majority of the previous season consisted of...

Daniel Nava, Darnell McDonald and JD Drew. There was a legitimate concern out there.

Boom. Outta Here.

Follow me on Twitter @RyanGilliss

Also follow my Wolfpack:

by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 12, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Dear Mr. Negative

My response to your comments is this.
The Redsox let Varitek, Pedroia and Youklis run the team. Tito became to comfortable with them,and bringing in A-gon and Crawford upset the sox trio.When the batting order could not be established the way Youk and Petey wanted it , the focus on winning became clouded.These moves were great on paper,but they did not translate to the field.I look for the VPY trio to be the next to go in Boston.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Theo's focus

should have been pitching.He went with keeping A-gon and crawford from going to the competition and proved to be the wrong formula.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions

You guy's are such bad Rays fans that you can't even stay out of the same thing the media does.

The reason the Red Sox lost is because they had a good, but not great team in the toughest division in MLB. You do a disservice to the Rays when you allude that the Sox beat themselves rather than losing to the better team.

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

They had horrible chemistry. Moose out front shoulda told ya

by firemangreg on Oct 12, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions

I'll respond here

I agree that the Rays did in fact beat the Rays. My comments about Theo go to something beyond how the team performed and more to the fact that I think he was interfered with by Larry Luccino who just never really let Theo do his thing.

Theo and Luccino had a spat a few years ago and Theo left for Turkey and came back into the fold, but I never felt that he was able to really operate the way he should.

I don’t know exactly what happened to Boston this year and there are probably many variations of the story, including the newest revelation that the Red Sox were worried about Francona’s marital problems and pill-popping.

Sandy, one thing directly to your point….so much talk about the Red Sox collapse but little about the fact that the Rays took 6 out of 7 from them head to head. In the end the better team won.

by MrNegative1 on Oct 12, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions

People thinking that Theo is a bad general manager for bringing together that group of guys don't know a damn thing about baseball

The pitching shit the bed and we all guessed that the Lackey deal would be bad sooner than later, but a very good team got beat by a better, more well-rounded team. They got 39 WAR out of their fielders and another 20 out of their pitching. The Rangers look like the class of MLB right now and they just finished behind the Sox in batter WAR and slightly ahead on the pitching side. Theo is really good, I just wonder who comes over to close the deal.

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Theo is a Great GM

I hope that doesn’t get lost in my commentary.

He will do a fantastic job in Chicago.

I am a happy man today.

by MrNegative1 on Oct 12, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Well said and succinct

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions

spat was in 2005 right after they won that first championship under Theo

by PreachITBrotha on Oct 12, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

With All Do Respect Mr. Kaz

I have in the past and certainly do now ,believe the Rays have a better team,because of their pitching and defense. I am pointing out that on paper the Redsox have high War totals,but still are not built to win,like the Rays.
If you recall at the beginning of the season when we were speculating on win records, I was in the Rays corner and not the Redsox, because I did not see the Redsux having a starting rotation that could put 4-5 pitchers on the mound that would have 15-20 wins. I believe that this is a requirement to reach 100 wins.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Sure, I'm just saying that whenever the Rays finish above one of our rivals the soundbyte is what the Yankees/Sox did wrong and not what the Rays did right.

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions

wasnt pete rose the last player manager?

by SamRay on Oct 12, 2011 9:00 AM EDT reply actions

Probably...I can't think of anyone more recent than that.

They’ve faded out of the game in recent decades.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Oct 12, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions

He was player-manager

Probably the last one. I think the last one before him was Frank Robinson with the Orioles.

by homeboogie on Oct 12, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Frank was Player Manager

with Indians and he pinch hit and hit a homer on opening day.

He was the DH and hit a homer vs the Yankees that day.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE197504080.shtml

by MrNegative1 on Oct 12, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Might be

Last I recall was Joe Torre with the Mets in the mid-late 70’s. Vaguely remember Rose, guessing that was later.

by tampa_edski on Oct 12, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions

And now it's official

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21147021/dc-theo-has-5-year-deal-cubs

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Oct 12, 2011 9:33 AM EDT reply actions

To put this in perspective, here's a doughnut chart looking at the various drive times with 15 minutes on the inside all the way up to 60 on the outside

The Rays are the turquoise bands directly at 12:00. You can see just how small they are compared to their peers. Other teams are in a similar boat though still in a better situation. The two NY teams really have an incredible advantage.

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

This is based off of Maury Brown's data in that last link, fyi

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Cool.

by Whelk on Oct 12, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Sandy

Your charts are correct in regard to population proximity. The problem is the stadium is funded with tourist tax money. Tourist money drives the funding train. No money No stadium. More tourists are in proximity to the current site.
The Rays understand this and that is why they proposed a new stadium 10 blocks from the trop.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I won't believe Sternberg is committed to the team

until he builds a private island in the Bay and puts the stadium there. Like this (Harrisburg, PA)

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Oct 12, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions

Garbage barge stadium that goes up and down the bay picking up fans is the only solutions

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 12, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Could be sponsored by puyd

by firemangreg on Oct 12, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

MR. Imperialism

The sail stadium did have a filling in part of the bay included in the constuction. This brought out the tree huggers being against the Al Lang site. There are many obstacles to getting a new stadium built.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Jokes, man. Jokes.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Oct 12, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

I am all for Jokes and yours are great

Jokes are funnier when some truth are involved in telling them.
P.S. Thats a lesson learned from the great Rodney Dangerfield.

by Landlord on Oct 12, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Stay Classy, Boston.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7091109/report-terry-francona-pain-meds-use-alarmed-boston-red-sox

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Oct 12, 2011 10:58 AM EDT reply actions