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The Rays Catcher Conundrum

Am I part of the problem or solution?

Let's not beat around the bush here. There were two positions on the diamond that were an absolute abomination to the team when it came to that position's turn in the lineup. The first is the shortstop position which I have touched on multiple times here and the second is the catcher position. I know, you already knew the two positions I was referring to.

The near automatic out that came to the plate in the form of the Rays catcher wanted to make us either change the channel or channel our inner most strength to keep us from throwing up in our mouths. Yes, it was that bad.

The below-replacement level production we garnered from the catcher position was a putrid .194/.274/.333 that was good for a 72 wRC+ and 73 OPS+. Thanks to guys like Jeff Mathis, Drew Butera, and Carlos Corporan, the Rays actually were not last in the Majors when it came to offensive production from the catcher's slot but that is still no excuse for such a horrific stat line.

To make matters worse, the Rays catchers overall value was only +1.3 fWAR which was the sixth worst total in the Majors. The base running was horrible and the defense was only kept above water due to Kelly Shoppach's fine season behind the dish, not at the dish. Apparently, Rob Johnson played every game at catcher for the Rays this past year.

Is there an answer out there to the problem that the Rays have at catcher? Options are slim but there are options. Let's take a look.

Star-divide

The free agent market isn't exactly stacked and, if it were, would the Rays even be players for a top catcher on the open market? Doubt it.

The Rays currently have John Jaso, Robinson Chirinos, and Jose Lobaton as internal options that all will be making league minimum or very close to it. None of this group performed well last year outside of their walk rates. Each had negative totals in base running and defense and Jaso was the best with the bat with a wRC+ of 82.

Kelly Shoppach has a club option for $3.2M with a $300K buyout. Shoppach's defense helped him out-earn his cost last year with +1.1 fWAR worth roughly $5M but $3.2M seems a bit steep for the cash strapped Rays especially when that player had a wRC+ of 72. The Rays may be inclined to decline this option and try and sign him at a cheaper rate or test free agency.

Here is who is available in free agency according to Cot's:

Rod Barajas LAD
Henry Blanco ARI
Ramon Castro CWS
Ryan Doumit PIT*
Ramon Hernandez CIN
Jason Kendall KC
Gerald Laird STL
Jose Molina TOR
Yadier Molina STL *
Dioner Navarro LAD
Jorge Posada NYY
Ivan Rodriguez WAS
Brian Schneider PHI
Kelly Shoppach TB *
Chris Snyder PIT *
Matt Treanor KC
Jason Varitek BOS

The Rays will likely stay away from the guys worse than our current crew. You know, the Kendalls, Vartieks, and Navarros of the world. I see little chance that Yadier Molina's option is not picked up but if it isn't he becomes the best catcher on the market and out of the Rays price range. Same goes for Hernandez, Barajas, and Posada who cannot even play catcher any more.

Ryan Doumit is an intriguing name but the injuries are a big concern and there likely will be a solid market for him once his options are declined. If not then he could be a good fit but it's not likely. I see the market being even better for Snyder and his option could be picked up by the Pirates.

The Rays best bet in the free agent market is Shoppach or maybe Jose Molina or Matt Treanor. Honestly, I'd rather have Shoppach who knows the pitching staff, plays solid defense, and still mashed leftied with a 124 wRC+ against them.

You could try and trade for a catcher but Devin Mesoraco will cost you James Shields. Geovany Soto may be available but he might make upwards of $5M next year and what will the cost in trade be? The Nationals have interest in starting pitching and B.J. Upton but I find it highly unlikely that Wilson Ramos is available and Derek Norris is at least a full year or two away.

The best trade option would be to call Colorado up and inquire on Chris Iannetta. He is under contract for 2012 at $3.55M with a 2013 option at $5M with a $250K buyout. At worst he will cost $3.8M next year. The Rockies have Wilin Rosario and Jordan Pacheco vying for an opportunity and the Rockies will listen to offers on Iannetta despite the fact that he was worth +3.3 fWAR and threw out 30% of attempted base stealers. Oh, that .370 OBP looks very nice as well.

If the Rays cannot make a reasonable trade for Iannetta or Soto or steal Ramos or Mesoraco away then I see them heading into 2012 with familiar faces hiding behind the catcher's mask.

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Yeah, catching is a mess for the Rays

Great post. I guess with dollars limited, I’d stick with the current duo. Jaso was much better last year and perhaps can bounce back. Shoppach has his moments and as you mentioned, is good with the pitchers. It’s not really a position that hurts the Rays if the rest of the cast is clicking.

I still really like Brignac. I still think that if you put him at short for 160 games, you’d be surprised with the results. He has to have a solid chance.

by FlagrantFan on Oct 14, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks!

I really hope a deal for Iannetta can be made but the market for catchers is slim and the going rate will rise. The Rays need to strike early if they do decide to make a trade.

Brignac is, well, I want to like the guy. He plays good defense and his offense in 2010 was passable at short but last year was laughable. He can’t possibly be worse than last year so there’s that.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really do not think they will do that.

Upton has one year left and will make around $8M and Ramos has 5 years left of control. Sadly, the Rays have to give up more.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, Shields for Ramos

Shields will never be worth more and I think he will regress some next year. He is 30 years old. His career FIP is 3.91 and it his 2.8 ERA benefited greatly from good defense and luck last year.

by playjoyce on Oct 14, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Great trade, package

Shields and upton for Espinosa, and Ramos.

Maybe they add a bullpen arm too. This would help them, and help us.

Upton has all the talent in the world, but I’d gladly let him go for those two.

Shields will never have a higher stock, and it would make room for our young guns ala Moore.

by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 14, 2011 1:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Do you really think that we (us on this blog) are more astute about Shields than other MLB teams??

(OK, maybe Sandy is)
But really, Shields’ season, while awesome, was very likely an aberration and other teams in baseball know that. Maybe he changed his throwing style for good, but the same argument going against Kotchman is failing to be picked up here for Shields. Regression is almost certain for 2012. I think you have to move Shields this year.

by playjoyce on Oct 14, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know you're relatively new here, but I know virtually nothing. Just ask Randy Glass.

Great points, though. It’s very unlikely that he has this good of a season next year or ever again.

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 14, 2011 2:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

No, other teams don't know that.

Outstanding ERA plus the complete game hype is more than enough to make him an ace is some MLB clubs’ minds. You’re giving them too much benefit of the doubt.

by Ben Tumbling on Oct 14, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course it's unlikely he repeats this year in terms of ERA.

But it’s also likely enough that he’ll be able to post more sub 4 ERA seasons with over 200 IP.

And I know I’m in the minority here, but I think that even last year, he was a very good pitcher from a predictions going forward standpoint. Maybe he made important adjustments, or maybe it’s just some big random extreme fluctuation, but he posted a 3.57 SIERA last season.

by Whelk on Oct 14, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shields would bring much more back in a Reds deal

I would move Upton and Davis to the Nats for Ramos, Henry Roddriquez, Steve Lombardozzi and Chris Marrero.

by budman3 on Oct 14, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Shields for Montero?

Yanks really need pitching, especially if CC bolts

by playjoyce on Oct 14, 2011 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed.

Although I would want to increase the trade to get Alonso. Shields > Mesoraco straight up.

And, yeah, Montero is not a catcher.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

No

While I like Montero as a hitter, I couldnt stand to watch Shields in pinstripes. My own personal bias’s would lead me to not root for Shields at all because he was a Yankee. I want to be able to root for Shields on his next team. I dont care if that sounds stupid or not.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I could

He’d give up 40+ HR in that “stadium,” and I would love to see the Yankees lose a deal. This would be easier for me than the whole Crawford to Boston thing, which turned out great. I don’t have a ton of sentimental attachment to Shields.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "FUCK THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Oct 16, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Keep Shopper for another year and flip one of our 5th starters for Yasmani Grandal whom is quite blocked. The Reds need ML pitching. Shopp gives us a year to check out Grandal and could be flipped at deadline

It’s too bad that Cheerios didn’t amaze this year as he would make the best option if we knew he could hit around league average

and there goes our season

OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 14, 2011 11:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

whom should be who

pretty much agreed otherwise. id like to get yonder and grandal (unless we get messy).

by rglass44 on Oct 14, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also like this plan of attack.

I wanted the Rays to draft Grandal out of high school but I believe his bonus demands were a bit high at the time.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Love me some Grandal.

I would trade one of Niemann/Davis for Grandal, and the other for Lomo If Cinci and Miami would do those trades.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily for the catching front, but I remember the KC GM saying he wants to acquire an ace.

Now there’s a guy who can overpay. I’d like to get half a dozen of their more interesting young players.

by Ben Tumbling on Oct 14, 2011 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

He's piss-poor at evaluating value, and that swings both ways.

I’d be more inclined to think that he’d ask for the moon for a serviceable major leaguer knowing that our catchers were incredibly bad.

I don't always think of epic collapses, but when I do, I prefer the 2011 Red Sox and Braves. Stay salty my friends.

by kericr on Oct 14, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im begining to get on a similar bandwagon

Fleece the Royals with Shields and make a couple trades off of it

by Dbullsfan on Oct 14, 2011 11:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Upton To Washington?

Upton and Jaso to Washington, for Catcher Wilson Ramos and a minor league prospect?

by MarkFidrych on Oct 14, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I bet Upton stays.

His stock was on the rise at the end of the season at the plate. If he can continue that in the first half, then his value at next year’s trade deadline will be much higher than it is right now. Outfielders can immediately help a playoff team……..Devastated Carl aside…..

by playjoyce on Oct 14, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Extend Upton

Give him a few million, and then let his brother support him once he gets his mega deal in free agency.

by MakeitRayn on Oct 14, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you believe the uptick in walk rate?

If that’s for real, he’s good enough, but it’s higher than anything he ever did in the minors, and it’s WAY higher than anything he did in the minors recently.

by Whelk on Oct 14, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just trying not to make the same mistake I made with Jaso.

If a guy’s value is all tied up in his walk and strikeout rates, and he comes up and posts better rates than he ever has at lower levels, I think it’s probably wishful thinking to assume anything like that going forward.

by Whelk on Oct 14, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jaso is also 4yrs older than Ramos

Which is huge (28 in 2012 vs 24)

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Oct 14, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point. Thanks.

I was under the impression that his star had dimmed as he moved up into the high minors, but I guess the youth makes it easier to believe in real improvement.

by Whelk on Oct 15, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe some people think

that Washington thinks that Derrik Norris is their future catcher, not Ramos, so Ramos is available.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey I'm not one of those people

I’m just sayin what some of those people may be thinking. And anyways there are free agent catchers out there they could sign to 1 year deals.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Package deal with Oakland

Buy low on kurt suzuki + get andrew bailey for closer. If Selig gives the go ahead on their move to San Jose apparently they will go in full rebuild mode

by MagicMike23 on Oct 14, 2011 1:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd be targeting Soto, Suzuki, Hernandez, or Ramos

An off-season that netted us Ramos and LoMo from the Marlins would be pretty sweet. Upton and ’spect to Wash, Wade Davis/Jeff Niemann for LoMo. Get. It. Done.

by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is Ramon Hernandez considered unaffordable?

He only made $3 million last year. As he’s already 35, I doubt his salary demands will go too much higher. I think he would be the ideal free agent fit for the Rays. Very good defensively, threw out 37% of basestealers last year. Hit .282 with 12 homers playing in half of the Reds’ games. Sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal.

Wake me up when Shoppach has been released.

by scharms on Oct 14, 2011 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

It's the fact that he is possibly the best option on the open market.

Good defense and offense. He’ll get multiple years from someone and at least $4 per. Too rich for the Rays blood for a mid-30s catcher but not too rich for some clubs.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Respectfully

I would argue that $4 million is affordable. This is especially so if the Rays end up reducing payroll by trading Shields or Upton. If you keep the deal at 2 or 3 years, I don’t think it matters that he’s 35. He actually had a better than career-average year this past year.

Wake me up when Shoppach has been released.

by scharms on Oct 14, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did that in the NLC

Moving to the ALE will be a major shock I fear.

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Oct 14, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct, ballpark is also a concern

But I’d rather start the discussion with him getting to play the Pirates, Cubs, Astros in that division.

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Oct 14, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

and also, him being terrible during his last 2 seasons in the ALE

OPS+ of 88, 87 in 2007-2008.

This is the kind of player the Rays would never, ever sign.

by AndrewTorrez on Oct 15, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see where you are coming from.

But the way the Rays operate I don’t see them giving Hernandez more than 1 year. If they can get him on a 1 year deal for $4M with a 2013 club option for $5M and a 500K buyout I could see them doing it but not multi years guaranteed at $4M/yr or more.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree here

He is our best option if we can sign to a one or two year deal. The Rays would never sign him to a 3 year deal.

by StoneCrab on Oct 14, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

won't he be a type A

Would the Rays, even with the mass amount of picks last year, give up a 1st round pick for Ramon Hernandez?

by MrNegative1 on Oct 14, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ten worst catchers (min 250 PA) and their salary:

1: Jeff Mathis – 1.7
2: Drew Butera – .429
3: H. Quintero – 1
4: John Jaso – .427
5: Jason Varitek – 2
6: Lou Marson – .424
7: Miguel Olivo – 2.25
8: Josh Thole – .420
9: Y. Torrealba – 3
10: Kelly Shoppach – 3

Seriously, cut bait. You’re telling me Lobaton or Chirinos can’t come close to a 1.1 fWAR given 250 PA and 1/6 of the salary? I don’t buy it.

I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)

by Vin on Oct 14, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Again, why would WAS do this?

One year of Upton at roughly $8M and Ramos has 5 years of control, two of which are near league minimum.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the Nats trade for Upton,

it would most likely be with the intention to sign him to an extension. If that gets worked out, they have him for more than 1 year.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nats will continue to spend money and will be big FA buyers again this winter.

And Rizzo loves Upton and will offer him a nice extension, IMO. Adding some other pieces from both teams to make it work could be a match.

by budman3 on Oct 14, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

..

How about the rare sign and trade we pick up hernandez on a 1 yr deal than send him and upton for ramos than they have their bridge to Norris, if it falls through we have 1 yr of hernandez

by Dbullsfan on Oct 14, 2011 11:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

that would explain why I couldn't recall a sign and trade

thanks…..well we could still do it in a sense, have the trade and have the Nats sign Hernandez and we could throw some cash their way.

by Dbullsfan on Oct 15, 2011 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nats also have Flores,, would probably re-sign Rodriquez(who they like for their young pitchers) and Norris about ready

I think Ramos is in play here. And Upton from the Virginia area doesn’t hurt his chances of maybe signing an extension.

by budman3 on Oct 15, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think they want a CF'er for next year to make a big push.

Especially if they can sign a premier starter like Wilson or Sabathia.

by budman3 on Oct 14, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

They're becoming the Yankees

But without the winning

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Oct 14, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are doing a great job and improving

Nats are on the upswing. They have tonoverpay for FA’s (Werth) in order to get the ball rolling.

Mats won 80 games this year with Zimmerman missing 53, and a managerial change.

Don’t knock the Nats, broski

by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 15, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Doesn't matter. You trade for what the team can control and that is one year of the player

If that way of thinking is ok then the Rays are trading for 9 years of Ramos becasue they can lock him up beyond arbitration years.

by jcmitchell on Oct 15, 2011 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I always find it funny when the Elian Rankings,

always count Varitek as an A or B agent even though he sucks.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup.

I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)

by Vin on Oct 14, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

10 worst catchers according to what?

I’d live with Lobaton and Chirinos but we also thought Brignac/Johnson/Rodriguez would suffice at SS this year.

by jcmitchell on Oct 14, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

fWAR, 250 min PA.

Though context clues gave that away, sorry.

I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)

by Vin on Oct 14, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

thought*

I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)

by Vin on Oct 14, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I don't have full confidence in either Lobaton or Chirinos being better than Shop next year

Especially since we can bring Shop back hopefully at a reduced salary.

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Oct 14, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

We couldn't have been watching the same player these last two years.

I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)

by Vin on Oct 15, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Please state how much more and what piece. Otherwise this comment is quite useless.

Do you want Ramon Hernandez? Do you consider anyone else “a good piece?”

by Whelk on Oct 15, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

just sayin'...

Posada vs. righties in 2011: .269/.348/.466; if he’s around for $1MM or so we could be looking at a Posada/Canzler DH platoon.

Not an option at C unless the game goes 17 innings and Andy Sonnanstine has already pinch-hit, obviously.

by AndrewTorrez on Oct 15, 2011 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

wow

depressed enough about the Lightning’s crap start, the Rangers getting to the WS, and a couple personal issues…

then I read this, which basically says Kelly Shoppach is a likely option for 2012. While I can’t argue with the logic, can I throw up now?

Maybe there’s some positive regression in store for Shoppach at the dish? Maybe he’s a .220 BA hitter rather than .170 (all other more important stats going up about the same amount)?

by tampa_edski on Oct 16, 2011 8:37 AM EDT reply actions  

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