The Rays Tank: David Ortiz Wants Less Drama, Dave Eiland Wants To Be A Pitching Coach
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 14, 2011 8:08 AM EDT
in The Rays Tank
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I was a bad baseball fan last night and sat down to read my book instead of following the games, but it seems the postseason carried on without me. The Tigers stayed alive, winning 7-5 thanks to four homers, and the Brewers evened the NLCS up at two games apiece. I'm not exactly sure how long the Tigers are going to be to hang on with such a weakened lineup, but hey, I'm definitely hoping they can still manage to send the Rangers home on their butts.
So David Ortiz wants to play for a team that has less "drama" surrounding it? Might I suggest Tampa Bay? When it comes to the Rays, there are only three types of drama that you'll find: attendance, athletes tweeting about attendance, and owners complaining about attendance. So if Big Papi is looking for a place to play competitive, AL East baseball, yet without the clingy media presence and constant drama, why not St. Pete?
Rays Talk
Finally, someone gets the whole Rays stadium/attendance things right. Alex Remington over at FanGraphs put in the necessary legwork to get the full story, and it definitely shows in his article. There's not much in there that many of us don't know -- that a new stadium is needed but not likely due to Bill Foster's stubbornness and the economy -- but I'm at least happy that someone decided to tackle this topic and actually do it justice.
One last note: the Royals are looking for a new pitching coach and Dave Eiland -- who spent this past year helping out in the Rays' front office -- interviewed for the position recently. From what Topkin is reporting, his goal has always been to get another job as a pitching coach somewhere, so he may not last with the Rays for long. The Royals seem to have rather specific desires, but Eiland would fit the bill:
"I'm looking for a guy that pitched in the big leagues for a long time with mediocre stuff. Usually those guys that have to work real hard at their game and have longevity in their game are going to make dynamic pitching coaches."
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take the money we would have paid BJ and Damon and sign Big Papi!!
Trade BJ for some prospect. Throw Deezy in CF, Guyer in LF and Joyce in RF. If you want to occasionally throw Joyce in RF against lefties, that’s fine too.
This makes way too much sense.
Regressing to the mean streets of St. Pete
Well, the one kicker is Papi isn't actually a FA.
The Sox hold a team option for $12m-ish. I’m assuming they’d exercise it, but you never know.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 14, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Erm, nope...I'm an idiot.
That option was for 2011. So it’s just if they offer him arb or not, and if he wants to be a FA. This is what I get for listening to Rob Neyer.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 14, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry, the FO will never shell out that kind of money for a DH
Tough to cry poor and then sign a $10mil DH
Regressing to the mean streets of St. Pete
by stpetelawyer on Oct 14, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Manny and Damon were around $7m combined last year.
So it’s not that farfetched. Depends how many years he’s looking for.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 14, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
That was two players that ended up being one. THey wouldn't have paid Damon 7 by himself.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Oct 14, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
No, but Ortiz is also a better hitter than either of those guys.
I think this comes down more to how many years Ortiz is looking for, not the money so much.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 14, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
...yeah, you're probably right.
Payroll is going to be tight as is. Bit of wishful thinking on my part, but it’s fun to dream.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 14, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
We paid Burrell
And Greg Vaughn, why not papi? He still has 2-3 food years left. Imagine giving longoria some protection?
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 14, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Who wants to give that kind of money to someone whose meals will come through a straw in 3 years?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
just like no $7 mil closer?
Rays will continue to be opportunistic. They could even spin it in press that they re-allocated resources by trading Upton.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
at this point I'd love a 4R/Gm team
But I think you could just as easily substitute David DeJesus in Guyer’s place.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, just a vent for more consistency...
but that average number is a little false. Rays had 70 games this year where they’ve scored 3 R or less. That is the worst in the division. Offense needs consistency.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Number of Games with 3R or less
NY – 47
BOS – 48
BAL – 60
TOR – 65
TB – 70
Still feel good about that 4.3runs/gm average?
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
that's my point
Baltimore is the same (1 run dif), so that’s a fair comparison. Baltimore had 10 less games of 3R or less. Also shows TOR offense is flawed as well. Ranked top 6 and yet had many games where held in check and then some. But that’s the characteristic of a long-ball, all-or-nothing offense.
If I have time, I’ll check a couple teams below us in runs scored. But all I’m trying to say is our 4.3 runs/gm is a little false. Need a more consistent offense.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand the debate
I’m just saying offensive consistency is a problem. It’s not bashing the team. It’s not saying the Rays suck. It’s saying it’s a problem to address. It can be addressed by not having multiple dead-weight spots in our lineup at C, SS, et al. It can be addressed by attacking our problem vs LHP. It can be addressed by getting more power from 1B and DH.
The Rays dominant pitching allows us to win those 2-1 games. But a little more wiggle room would be beneficial and allow the Rays to keep being consistent in the win department as well.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess what I'm saying is the Rays offense is streaky
I guess I’m not making my point well. I look at a team like Baltimore, who has the same amount of runs as the Rays, and they have 10 less games of 3R or less than the Rays. Cleveland who scored 3 less runs than we did, had 7 less games of 3R or less. But, I believe, the problem is both. R/G and consistency.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I get that. My question was "Is consistency important?"
I don’t now if it is or isn’t. I know we need to upgrade the HUGE holes at SS/C, and I’d like to get more pop from 1B. My reasoning is those are easy places to add runs whether that be on games when we scored 0 or 1 or 4 or 5. You get this team scoring slightly above-average runs per game, and we win more games; consistent or not.
4.3 gets to 4.9-5.2
If we get a legit cleanup hitter, and a bat at C-SS.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 14, 2011 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BJ for one w/Jennings and Joyce or as i suggest below
a hybrid like JD Drew
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
*immediate offensive upgrade
next year is a big year i think as it may be the only year we have price, shields, and moore in the same rotation.
Do you fear 2016 when Kyle Lobestein and Andrew Bellati headline our rotation?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I mean... I don't hate them
But Lobstein throws like 86-88 mph without much movement. Bellatti is more intriguing but let’s see him in full-season
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
League min.
Do it
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 14, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
C--Sign Shop to a 2 yr deal
SS-Give the job to S-Rod and wait for Beckham
1B— Lots of options and Kotch should not be ruled out
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Listening to Friedman and Maddon, it's apparent they love his defense
and i’m guessing they try and rework his option into a 2 year package
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I don't think we should be counting on Beckham to be a solid ML shortstop just yet
If we can sign a guy for a 2-3 year deal that will help this club I am for it.
We don’t need make sure to keep SS open in 2013 for him.
good points
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What about for the Nats catcher
Wilson Ramos? He would bring a stick at the C position, and none of the BS that Upton brings with his craptacular attitude.
Def worth a shot.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 14, 2011 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Heads up dude
you dont bad mouth BJ here about attitude.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm wondering if JD Drew has anything left in the tank
Here’s a guy who can play every day and hit LHP. He had only one bad season
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
who don't i hate?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Oct 14, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Im good with giving Drew or Ordonez a low risk ($) shot at DH.
Thing is they both saw tremendous drop in power and with age + injury you have wonder if this is it. Would be a situation where we need to rely on scouts/med staff more than past production.
www.espn1040.com, www.theprocessreport.com, www.bloombergsports.com Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on Oct 14, 2011 11:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
both have at least been in AL
And at least both would be a LOT cheaper.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Here are three RH bats who should come pretty cheap
Casey Blake
Mark DeRosa
Maddlio Ordonez
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
career wRC+:
DeRosa- 96
Blake- 105
MagPipes- 126
DeRosa’s a non-starter to me as his positional flexibility isn’t needed with Zobrist/S-Rod and Longo encamped at 3B.
and Maggs, despite health problems, hit LHP better than Drew in last 2 years
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
but if had to choose between two, and salary is near equal, I’d rather have Maggs at DH than Drew.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I just hope we target our LHP issue this year
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
hmm...I stand corrected.
Wonder why I thought otherwise. If that’s the case, then the Rays should look at DeJesus even more. Owns righties.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 14, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
+1 on DeJesus
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
DeJesus is 100% more from Rutgers than Upton
Not even close imo
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
We also need to sign Jason Bergmann and trade for Todd Frazier
Particularly Frazier since I actually got to see him play there
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Does WF have anyone?
Allan Dykstra I know of, that’s it
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
dave bush, mike macdougle, chris getz (also went to mich), and then dykstra and antonelli in the minors.
bush and macdougle were both highly regarded, and there’s someone else that was a top pick that never developed (pitcher) who i cant think of.
they had a great run from in the late 90s and early 00s making the ncaaas 1998-2002. i got there in 03 just in time to see the team go in the shitter.
Ah... At least ACC baseball still >>>> Big East
Rutgers won the BE in 2006 (my freshman year) then Frazier left and it all fell apart. Eric Young and Bob Tewksbury are our best alums besides DeJesus, I think.
Also: You’re thinking of Kyle Sleeth! I remember him from when I first started following prospects.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
wake's 2 best players both played in the 40s-50s: tommy byrne and willard marshall
we are the only acc team to ever win a cws, though (1955).
Wow, that's surprising
Thought Miami would have one.
Rutgers also had this guy who went 12-32 in 1884 for the Cleveland Blues
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a decent hitter though
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Duh, Miami was in the BE until like 2004 or whatever
Gotcha
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd back it, he's not nearly as bad as I thought he would be in the field.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 14, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Magglio is done
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Eiland - "pitched in the big leagues for a long time with mediocre stuff"?
10 seasons, might be a long time, but less that 400 IP doesn’t really seem like a long time.
To call his stuff “mediocre” is an insult to mediocrity. While is 2.8 BB/9IP is nice on the surface, his 11 H/9 IP and 3.7 K/9 IP makes me think of pig piss as a better comparison.
There are players who I could never root for. On my team or any other.
Two of said players are Kevin Youkilis and David Ortiz.
I have such an incredible amount of disdain for those two people.
@RealNolenBailey
I understand the hate for Youk, he's a douche.
But, why couldn’t you cheer for Papi if he were a Ray? I’d take him in a second if we could afford him, though I doubt that it will happen.
7 Ks in 6 games "isn't too bad"
(Yes I know he has a lot of ABs in those 6 games)
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 14, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
If you dont OPS over 1000 in the AFL, you're bad
I can’t wait to get out there in 3 weeks
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 14, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
2 doubles and 2 triples today for Tbex.
And even better, no K’s! No walks either but no K’s in a game for him is always good.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 14, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I know RBI is a junk stat, but....
Did a fantasy piece this morning about it because RBI’s count and was stunned to learn that Matt LaPorta had the 5th highest percentage of baserunners driven in off non-HR’s. OBI = RBI minus HR total.
Anyhow, league average per 600 PA is 14% for that particular metrics and it probably would surprise you that 6 Rays hitters with at least 100 PA’s with runners on base.
Zobrist – 18%
Longoria – 17%
Damon – 15%
Joyce – 15% (same as David Ortiz, for example)
BJ – 15%
Fuld – 14%
Who hurt?
Rodriguez with 11% in 185 PA
Kotchman with 11% in 250 PA
Brignac with 10% in 109 PA
Shoppach with 7% in 117 PA
Jaso was between those two groups with 13% in 125 PA, which is much higher than I expected.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 14, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions
To frame that
The Rays gave Rodriguez, Kotchman, Brignac & Shoppach 661 PA’s with runners on base this season and that quartet drove in 91 of them. By comparison, Zobrist had 295 PA w/ runners on base and plated 71 runners.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 14, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yea, that's something I want to do for a later column
League average XBH% was 33%
Team:
Longoria 49%
Zobrist 46%
Joyce 41%
BJ 40%
Jaso 38%
Rodriguez 37%
Shoppach 36%
Fuld 35%
Damon 34%
Kotchman 24%
Brignac 10%. Yes, 10%
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 14, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm tired of watching Upton watch strike 3
He is really good at that, how many times those year did he do that?
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 14, 2011 1:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Welcome to draysbay, now learn the language.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 14, 2011 2:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm trying to be nicer to awful posters per an arrangement with the Big Dog Stevesie
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 14, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
We cool, dawg?
No one cares what you think, all you ever answer with is 'meh.' Go back to your pokemen
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 4:40 PM EST
I'm not really sure who you are or what would make us uncool, dawg.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 14, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I do the whole read before you post thing
I just don’t post enough to join regulars and start my own moderator campaign.
No one cares what you think, all you ever answer with is 'meh.' Go back to your pokemen
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 4:40 PM EST
Thank the lawd for that, but please post smart, well-thought out things and don't worry about what I think
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 16, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
You're a very good poster and I hope you continue to let everyone realize what a smart, capable user you are.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 16, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Nowhere near on topic:
Is there a link anywhere to find Hellickson’s strikezone plot?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "FUCK THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
I can put an un-normalized zone together for you when I'm back on even keel roughly next Friday, in the meantime here's what Joe Lefkowitz has
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 16, 2011 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way I'm 7/8 drunk and Tin Cup is on so I won't be doing this right now
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 16, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks, dude. that's good enough. someone wanted to know if there was proof he was squeezed.
I said yes, but i couldn’t find it. This works.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "FUCK THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 16, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it comes back to a comment he made last year or earlier this year where he said he didn't care much about who the umpire was as long as he was calling knees and corners
It stuck out to me, because Helly realizes that he must locate good pitcher’s pitches to get by, but perhaps some umpires took that as criticism and as they do they’ve spent the better part of a year making sure that he regrets mentioning that. Umpires with vendettas need to stop sullying this game.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 16, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
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