Financial Flexibility: What's the Current State of the Budget?
As Rays fans, we all know about the importance of the yearly budget. While the Rays have been willing in the past to expand the budget when going all-in, even at the best of times the Rays have been constrained by their finances. They have never been able to afford signing big name free agents, and their high water mark of $72 million in 2010 was still middle of the road for a major league franchise.
But the Rays aren't likely to approach that high water mark again anytime soon. With the underwhelming attendance figures in recent years, the Rays capped their payroll last season at around the $50m mark, and it sounds likely that they'll do something similar this year. Whether you think that's fair or unfair, it's the situation we're in. Andrew Friedman won't be given free reign to spend this offseason, so if we're going to be rosterbating around here, we'd better be sure to do so responsibly.
So if we figure that the Rays have a soft salary cap of $50 million -- which might have some flex if the right deal comes along -- how much room does Friedman have to work with?
I attempted to fill in the Rays' roster as best I could, estimating which players the Rays are likely to bring back. For instance, Kelly Shoppach has a $3.5m option for 2012, but it seems unlikely that the Rays will exercise it. Meanwhile, I slotted in Shields, Farnsworth, Longoria, Zobrist, and Davis, as the Rays will undoubtedly pick up their options.
For the arbitration eligibles, I'm using the estimates provided by MLB Trade Rumors. They haven't made a big fuss about it, but they have a new arbitration forecasting system in place that was developed by Matt Swartz (formerly of BPro fame, now at FanGraphs). It's apparently been very accurate when running historical arbitration cases, so we can trust the numbers they provide as solid estimates.
Andy Sonnanstine and J.P. Howell are also both arbitration eligible, but it seems likely that the Rays non-tender them. Both could be resigned, but my assumption is that it'd be for no more than a minor league contract or a very small salary.
So the Rays are currently around $6.5 million underneath their soft cap, with holes at first base, DH, and in the bullpen.* Granted, the Rays could fill almost all those positions internally for very cheap, but I think the consensus is that the Rays want to add more bats this offseason. They won't have much budget room to work with, but if they trade away from pitching, it could open a large amount of space.
*My roster also doesn't have a backup catcher, so that's something else to consider.
The way I see it, the Rays could go any number of ways based on what sort of trade offers they receive. In my mind, Upton, Shields, Niemann, Davis, and Cobb should all be on the trading block, and then the Rays have enough flexibility to make whatever move looks the best to them. I'd love to be able to trade away Niemann for an impact bat, but that's more wishful thinking than anything else; the Rays will likely need to move Shields or Upton to get a big hitting prospect in return.
But all in all, the Rays are in a much better position this offseason than last. They don't have nearly so many large holes to fill, and their bullpen has a core of talent to build around. They could make few moves and enter next season with a borderline contending team, so this should hopefully be a positive offseason.
253 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I have to think our playoff run would have a non-negligible impact on our salary
Assuming the last game of the season had average ticket costs of like ~30 bucks and the two playoff games averaged ~40 that’s another ~3 million dollars that came out of nowhere, not counting money spent on parking, concessions, etc
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 11:25 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Shields is so gone.
Selling at a peak, frees up money, will bring back a haul, we have plenty of SPs to fall back on. I still think Upton stays, at least for the first half. His offense is needed.
Shields knew that he was on the way out, too.
He made an impressive parting performance rather than curl up and cry, and now he is an attractive option for other teams to choose.
I'm somewhat surprised Niemann is expected to make that much in arb.
I suppose I shouldn’t be, but I’d really prefer to unload him this offseason if possible.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 11:52 AM EDT reply actions
LoMo.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
What's the ETP for LoMo
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a lot of teams are trying to get in on LoMo
Rumor was that the White Sox — not exactly a bastion of enlightened statistical analysis — asked for Morrison as compensation for Ozzie. So if one of baseball’s dumber organizations wants the guy, it’s a pretty safe bet that 28 other teams want him as well.
In the abstract, the Marlins would match up nicely for a trade centered around Logan Morrison for B.J. Upton (Chris Coughlin as your everyday centerfielder??); in practice, I think there’s no way they go for it. So then the questions are a) whether the Rays have the right minor-league pieces to get Morrison, and b) whether they can turn around and move Upton for sufficient prospects to at least break even across the two deals.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't Coughlin spend time in the minors?
The Marlins are in extreme needs for pitchers, whether prospects or MLB players. Don’t you think Archer/Torres could potentially get it done?
Maybe Cobb
..but as I suggest above, it depends on a) how many teams are in on Morrison — I think probably 25+, and b) whether anyone puts forward an offer that includes player(s) the Marlins really like.
I don’t think one of Archer/Torres is sufficient, because both of those players have the “possible future reliever” downside. 5 years of a cost-controlled Cobb, with #2-starter upside (and MLB average starter downside) should probably get it done. Of course, it should have gotten it done for Rasmus as well….
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Niemann instead of Cobb?
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
for LoMo?
i think one of Archer/Torres and Buente would get it done. Throw in Buente cause I hear Miami likes quantity and hes we could stand to part with
Lol. I thought you knew and was just joking around.
by Ben Tumbling on Oct 17, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
now that he said that, i do remember his name being attatched to miami
but for some reason i couldnt remember that
We released him shortly after claiming him, I thought?
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Link?
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
.
May 25, 2011: Selected off waivers by the Tampa Bay Rays from the Florida Marlins.
September 14, 2011: Released by the Tampa Bay Rays.
I’m not seeing that anywhere else.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
here you go
scroll down to Sep. 30. (“I’ll be back next year”)
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I’ll believe that when I see it.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not seeing it anywhere though.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
hurugo
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2011/10/minor-league-transactions-sept-27-oct-3/
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Nice.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
re-signed as a free agent 9/29/11 ( Minor League)
by Moore Guerreri and Cheese on Oct 17, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
incidentally
Buente needed both labrum AND rotator cuff surgery but put it off until the end of the season. Could very easily see him being an injury-replacement asset at the back end of the bullpen next year.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry, we've grown accustomed to it
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
well that was fast
Thanks bro!
by TBchillin' on Oct 17, 2011 8:34 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Anytime!
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
i am looking forward to posting here with you
youve been so nice its like were BFFs already! We should go to a Rays game together man. How about the home opener??
I'd love to, trying to find some work-related excuse to be in Florida around that time so they pay for the flight
Worked pretty well this year except for the awfulness of the first series
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to see LoMo at 1B next year.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Morrison isn't going anywhere
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but they're not looking to dump him and it would be a foolish move to get rid of him just because you don't like him
It may turn into a Rasmus thing, but even that took 2-3 years of veiled threats and was arguably a worse situation
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
But we'd actually attempt to give Florida a reasonable package
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I would argue that the Marlins organization is more volatile
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 17, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Criticize Hanley
Get fired
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if it's Loria or Samson that is the problem
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 17, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I've read that Hanley is Loria's golden boy
But I dunno how much is true with regards to that affecting decisions
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He has Upton's attitude
LoMo is intriguing, and that dude can mash.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 17, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that the Rays should resemble a 1920's team the way God intended
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you think the Red Sox missed the playoffs the last 2 years?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Adrian Beltre, Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, and Mike Cameron just aren't good ball players, face it
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The Truth, This man speaks
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're high on Price more than Niemann
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't me.
That’s what the forecasting model predicts….I just reposted them. We’ll obviously see how good it does, but from all reports, it’s a pretty bang up model.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The option on Shoppach should be picked up
Here is why. I’m sure the Red Sox would have no problem signing him as their back up and that green monster wall would be very inviting. If we pick up the option we might be able to rework a two year deal or at least trade him away from the ALE
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
You have to be able to make contact to take advantage of the monster, fence length has never been Shopper's problem
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't Jim Thome the MLB all time leader in K's?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Oct 17, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reggie Jackson is
one would expect Thome to load up on k’s after 21 seasons. It’s a damn shame shoppach doesn’t have a career ops of .959
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
HAHAHA you just compared Thome and Shoppach, that one's going in the vault
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I might be in the minority here
but I think Shields stays. Even with expected regression, he’s still a pretty significant upgrade over Davis/Niemann/Cobb, and with a few creative trades, this team is not just a fringe contender but a major one.
I know Billy Butler is my personal white whale, but an Upton-for-Butler trade makes so much sense for both sides. Add to that the possibility of bringing in Iannetta for Cobb, and then dumpster-diving for an 800 OPS lefty DH (Jason Kubel? Jorge Posada?), and you’ve massively upgraded the lineup AND you’ll have a Price-Shields-Moore-Hellickson postseason rotation, which is pretty sweet. Oh, and toss in a couple of cheap bounceback relievers with nasty K rates (Michael Wuertz, Mike Gonzalez) while you’re at it.
The only way you trade Shields is if you are totally overwhelmed. And please let's end the thoughts of
Joey Votto coming here as part of a SHields deal. If you’re trading salary, why take on more? Besides we won 91 games with Shields and w/o Votto so i favor keeping SHields
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
where was shields for votto mentioned?
i dont see it anywhere.
This. Niemms is a different case.
His value might be at its highest point right now, before his salary goes up. I would like them to get anything for him.
Billy Butler jumped the shark
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 17, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree if your mother is a shark
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Cleveland seems like a natural trading partner
How about a blockbuster of Shields/Price + Upton for Cabrera and Santana. Now this is a stretch, but realistically with the trading pieces we have we should be able to wrestle one of those pieces from the Indians and would fill a big hole. They’re likely to let Sizemore walk, so very possible they would be interested in Upton.
Cleveland would jump all over that deal. Asdrubal Cabrera had a career year and wimpered at the finish
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Not too sure about that with Santana having 2 more pre-arbitration years left.
Five years of Santana plus 3 years ( I think) of Cabrera for about $30 M vs. 1 year of Upton plus 3 years of Shields for $ 35M. This seems like a decent starting point for both teams to balance it out with prospects coming to the Rays.
by Moore Guerreri and Cheese on Oct 17, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
that trade would be done in a heartbeat by the Indians
All the Rays have to do is give the Tribe Price or Shields and maybe a prospect or two and that is a done deal. Rays don’t even have to include Upton in the deal and they’d be crazy to. The Tribe would probably hedge more on Shields with his contract than Price and would probably want at least Hak Ju Lee and an arm like Lenny Linsky in the deal.
Meant as a starting point of discussion between the two
But in reality, Cleveland is the only team I think of (maybe besides Cincy) who would ideally have two key young players under team control for a while in 2 of the key 3 position needs (and being Santana can play 1B also could help in someway to fill all 3). Cabrera arguably had a better year in 2009, so I wouldn’t call him a one year wonder. And the fact that both players are switch hitters with very little noticable splits would be a huge help. The lineup flexibility as well as payroll flexible both would offer in my opinion make them well worth it to the Rays for the possibility of trading Price + pieces.
Another way of looking at Shields for next year
Shields would approximate roughly 15% of our total payroll. That would be the equivalent of the yankees having a pitcher making $30-35 million next year…and rising in the out years. I really don’t see Shields staying. The same math applies for Upton, but at least he’s a hitter/everyday player at a key position who plays good defense. Upton probably gets moved mid-season, but why wait for a regression to move Shields. His value will never be higher to other teams as it is right now.
the Yankees probably WILL have a pitcher making $30 million on their payroll next year
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
CC Sabathia is going to get a raise probably
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i hope some other team swoops in when he opts out
and takes him from New York. That would be nice for us.
Rangers
Rangers will spend their offseason money on Fielder, who should put up Bonds-style HR numbers with that jet stream to RF.
I would bet you any amount of money CC is a yankee next year
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
oh I have no doubt he goes back to the Yankees
I’m sayin imagine playin a Yankees team with no CC. Itd be even easier to compete.
by TBchillin' on Oct 17, 2011 3:38 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I know the three get lumped together often as trade candidates but...
who do you guys believe to have the highest trade value of the Davis/Niemann/Cobb triumverate?
I think its Niemann, Davis, Cobb. But in terms of who I’d like to keep its probably Cobb, Davis, Niemann.
Also, any chance Jake McGee gets a shot as a starter next year?
rumor is that they offered St. Louis their pick of Davis/Niemann/Cobb for Rasmus
And I think that’s probably fair value all around. (Not pictured: the fact that St. Louis is run by idiots.) How you’d rank them is almost certainly a judgment call and will vary from team to team. The Rays probably ought to be indifferent, too; none of those guys have the ceiling of Price/Shields/Moore/Hellickson, so it’s basically “who do the Rays want as the best fifth starter in baseball?”
On your second question: 0%. McGee is a reliever now.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
The whole point was to make a run in Pujols’s (potential) last year as a cardinal, and Jackson has probably been better than any of our 3 guys would’ve been down the stretch. He’s also a type A agent. I’m not saying it was the best move, but it wasn’t that idiotic.
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd go Davis, Cobb, Niemann for the fomer
Davis has guaranteed costs and if you get him out of the ALE is at least a 4 for the next 5 years. Cobb showed real talent and will be very cheap for the next 3 years with 3 more of control after. Niemann is Arb 1, gets hurt every year, and outside of 3-4 start stretches where he shows utility he has disappointed as a former #4 pick.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean we aren't going to sign Pujols?
Too bad. The Reds seem like a good fit for Shields, no? Would they trade Alonso and Mesoraco? Maybe add Cobb and ask for another prospect?
thought experiment
What would it take for the Rays to trade a package of Matt Moore and Desmond Jennings?
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Eric Hosmer, Billy Butler, Mike Moustakas, Wil Myers, Mike Montgomery, and Danny Duffy
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 17, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Reasoning:
2006- $35,417,967
2007- $24,123,500
2008- $43,820,597
2009- $63,313,035
2010- $71,923,471
2011- $41,932,171
Average- $46,755,124
3-year average- $59,056,225
Comp. Avg.- $55,247,319
Yeah, but I think the management is working under a different thought-process now to a degree.
Before the idea was you invest in the team, win some, and the fans come. That didn’t really work as intended, so I’m not really sure looking at what they’ve done in the past is a great indication of what to expect in the future.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention the more this team wins the more the franchise is worth.
revenue streams will increase via tv deals and a move to a new stadium if something doesnt change.
They *will* increase, that's not saying they are right now.
But I’m one of the fools that believes it’s true the Rays will end up in the red if they spend much more than $50m a year. I know that’s not a majority viewpoint around here.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
seems to me that there are 5 major revenue streams here
a) renegotiating TV/radio/media rights — the Rays have drastically increased viewership and that hasn’t (yet) been reflected in the media deals, but will be starting in 2012;
b) securing corporate participation — it’s not just the revenue from luxury boxes, it’s the revenue from local business that view “buying in” to the Rays as part of doing business in the Tampa/St. Pete area. This is a predictable, high-margin source of revenue, and right now it’s sorely underdeveloped because the Trop just doesn’t have the assets to make that work; and
c) stadium concessions — there’s been some workaround with the kiosks (I’m given to understand; I’m not local as most of you know), but the ownership hasn’t had the opportunity to revamp the (terrible) base concessions with high-margin (and higher quality) items; and
d) postseason revenues — I’ve discussed this earlier, but making the postseason alone is worth ~$20MM in anticipated revenues to the club; and, finally,
e) actual through-the-gate attendance.
Everyone focuses on e), obviously, but I would argue that it’s probably the least important of those four items. If you increase your concession margins by, say, 50%, then under normal economic models (in which concession revenues are roughly twice that of ticket revenues), that’s the equivalent of bumping attendance by one-third without getting a single extra person through the gate.
Obviously, in the long run, gate matters. But in the short run, there’s a lot that can be done to affect the Rays’ balance sheet with an eye towards the real prize (a subsidized stadium in a sensible location).
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that $20M figure is for going to the world series, and they can't get out of their TV deal until 2016, otherwise, spot f'ing on
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and they don't actually see any marginal revenue on concessions as they are locked into a contract where they are paid a flat fee for the right to sell there, they don't get a cut of the sales.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I could bullshite you an answer, but I won't
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, they can still increase their profit margins the next few years...true enough.
And getting a new stadium will open up all sorts of opportunities. I really think that having a stadium in Tampa would give this franchise a really rosy future.
But I’m not sure exactly what your comment has to do with the larger point, that a $50m payroll is about what we can/should expect for the forseeable future.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Key is not getting a new stadium in Tampa
But getting it in time to “save” what’s been built recently
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Stop taking what they say at face value
It’s just as likely that they are willing to cycle up then reload as they’ve shown in the past
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree.
Or at least, I agree that they’re “cycling up” this year. But I don’t think cycling up right now is the same as it was in 2010…that’s why I’m saying it’s a soft cap and they’ll have some flex room, but I see little chance that they pass 60 or 70 mil again except in maybe a blue moon sorta season.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The next 2010 will be when Price and Longo are ready to leave, for comparison, 2012 should be comparable to 2008 compared to 2011 being like 2007
We’re at the beginning of the cycle where I could see us doing this:
2011: 40M
2012: 50M
2013: 60M
2014: 70M
2015: 80M
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I could really see us consistently being at the ~80 million payroll budget starting in 2016
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 17, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless the CBA Santa leaves Stu a present
80M might be pushing it w/o a stadium
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
New TV deal should have a substantial increase...
80 might be on the high side
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 17, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
What market is closest to the Rays in terms of TV?
Pittsburgh?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
AL East
Comcast should drop the Orioles and pick up the Rays..
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 17, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I...don't...no...words
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I am, I'll take this over chillio or whatever any day of the week
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
So I'm not the only one
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Tampa is 13 between Seattle and Minny...
http://www.mediaservicesgroup.com/articles/TV%20DMA%20RANKING%20LIST.pdf
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 18, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I could see something like that.
But also because theoretically, their revenue streams should have hopefully improved by then to some degree. These next five years could see the franchise changing their position pretty dramatically…or at least, I hope so.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Need market stability badly
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking the same, different reasoning....
What is the Rays’ budget for 2012 and the draft. Didn’t they have a $10m or so budget for the haul of picks last year due to losing all of those free agents. My hunch is that a great check of that will be repurposed back to the big club depending on the number of compensation picks we have in next year’s draft. Just a hunch that $5-7 mil might free up. This gets things to $55-$57. The FA has shown that if they have the right deal (read Soriano) they will pull the trigger and spend money, even when they publicly say they won’t. Could realistically come in around $60M.
Opera Singer, Baseball Fan, Beer Snob!
by Bryce Westervelt on Oct 17, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
"chunk" not "check"
(reply fail) though wouldn’t mind if they (responsibly) wrote a slightly larger “check” next season.
Opera Singer, Baseball Fan, Beer Snob!
by Bryce Westervelt on Oct 17, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously a grain of salt is required, but they've always maintained that it is separate budgets that have no bearing on each other
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I see it around 45-50 this year, but time will tell
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So what did Law say about Beckham in his blog?
Hollywood Collette mentioned it on his twitter, but didn’t give any details.
Crap.
“fring average” runner (BS), problems with his swing, etc….. the same old junk. Said Beckham was really struggling in the AFL.
He was loving Cole too. Why he loves a guy who has such poor lacation is beyond me. I’m just pretty unimpressed by Cole though. Give me Bauer, Bundy, Rendon, etc…. instead.
Keith Law has zero credentials as a scout
and fewer that that as a reporter. He’s a former stathead who’s fallen in love with being the scouting guy. It’s not quite as ridiculous as Will Carroll pretending to be a doctor, but it’s close.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't get the hate for Will Carroll...
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 17, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, this is a troll right
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
not really...
admittedly I’ve only really seen his tweets. But is it for anything other than speculating on the the recovery time for injuries?
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 17, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 17, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Cite your source on him not being an average runner?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 17, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think mr.maniac was suggesting that
Law’s description of Beckham as a fringe-average runner (i.e., a scout’s 35) was crap. I’d agree with that from what I’ve seen of him both live and on tape (as well as the numbers, obviously).
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Fringe average just makes it sound so bad.
I don’t have a source. I’m not going to beleive a guy who has gotten one look of him either.
58 steals in 427 games. That seems like 45 speed to me.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 18, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
that's what my not-a-scout eval of him would be
“above average” speed; i.e., 45
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 18, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't we have to look at progression?
At Bowling Green, he was 13/23 for a 56.5% SB rate.
At Charlotte, he was 22/36 for a 61% SB rate.
At Montgomery he was 15/19 for a 78.9% SB rate. If we add the 2/3 at Durham, he was overall 17/22 last year for a 77% success rate.
I am not sure that tells us a lot about speed, and he did run a bit less last year than the year before, but it does seem he is stealing at a better rate as he climbs the ladder. Perhaps too early to tell, but the implication is he is learning how to get better jumps or to read pitchers better, and is still fast enough to make the attempts with a good success rate.
One thing to keep in mind also is the amount of times he was in position to steal.
His power numbers increased and his BB-numbers decreased meaning he saw less opportunities to steal. Here’s a quick breakdown of his BB+HBP+1B and his BB+HBP+1B+2B numbers compared to his stolen base attempts and stolen bases:
As you can see he wasn’t as aggressive as he was in the past, but he did steal more bases per time in position to in 2011 than 2009. Not sure what all this means, though.
I'll bring a stopwatch with me to AZ in 2 weeks
Just got my press credential for the weekend so I can’t wait to get out there. I highly recommend a trip to the AFL for everyone. Worth it.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 17, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice
If you can tell me what you think of T-Bex’s swing, I’d greatly appreciate it. I’ve seen him change it up multiple times over the course of this season and I’d love to think he’s gotten his swing mechanics down.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched him score pretty easily from first on a ball in the corner that was dug out on a strong play by the RF, I think he's more Bernie Williams than Carl Crawford
Striders like that are still very good at taking the extra base which I think is just as, if not more, important than stealing bases.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw him in early August -- this looks like what I saw as well. A lot like Zobrist in that regard
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 17, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I know this is a tongue in cheek comment but it's damn hard to be a productive player if you can't get on base
And for someone who strikes out as much as T-Bex either hitting homers or walking is necessary to maintaining a good OBP
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course, but why do we think he can't walk?
His walk rate fell dramatically in a SSS when he moved to AAA, but it’s been decent before that (11.5% in 541 A+ PAs, 8.3% in 468 AA PAs). Sure he’s having to adjust to new levels, but I thought people used to say his approach was a strength.
one possibility
it strikes me that the Rays tell players to focus on one thing as they move up a level or commit a large block of time; at AAA for Beckham, it was pretty clearly driving the ball through the zone (which he did pretty darn well).
If and when Beckham consolidates all of his hitting talents, the Travis Fryman comp I rather carelessly hung on him looks to be within reach.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 18, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
This. Too often I think people forget that team's have players working on specific things in the minors.
This is especially the case for pitchers, but I imagine hitters (especially “raw” ones) get a fair amount of this as well.
Unconcerned about trading Shields, Upton
The beauty of the Rays’ management is that there is not a player on Slow’s list who is making more than his value in the open market. What that means is that if you wake up one morning and find that, for instance, Shields has been traded, you can rest assured that you will be happy with who Andrew got for him, and with what issues had been solved.
That said, this is that wonderful season where we all get to act as GM. Since I think that a blockbuster may be in the works, I’m considering utilizing my best assets, which as we all know, is a slew of young starting pitchers with favorable contracts. I’m looking for a team with a good number of good young hitters with favorable contracts. My search lands me squarely upon the Kansas City Royals, a team with great young hitters and the worst pitching staff in the world. Any one or two from the group of Perez, Hosmer, Gordon, and Butler could be enough to make the Rays the AL favorites for next year, and it might get done without increasing our Runs Allowed, Or so it seems to me.
in your opinion
What two guys would you want to see in a rays uni and who gets traded for them? I’d like hosmer and butler. Also IYO what would it take to get all 4? (doubt this happens in a million yrs)
by TBchillin' on Oct 17, 2011 3:45 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
lol
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Oct 17, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Be nice to the noobs
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been here longer than you
by TBchillin' on Oct 17, 2011 8:49 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Chill out, guy
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I do have 45,000 comments on this account compared to your 85 with another 23,000ish on various other accounts, but believe what you want it's really a petty thing to argue about.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Details
It’s not the exact names, but the concept that the Royals and the Rays would have to get together on. For example, for those two….say……Hellickson, Cobb, and Archer as a starting point. And we should keep in mind that obtaining significant proven players will require parting with assets we cherish, for the greater good.
side note
How good is that Ben Zobrist extension looking right now?
Trade Rosterbation here but...
One of Niemann/Davis/Cobb and one of Torres/Archer for Yasmani Grandal who hangs up first?
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 8:29 PM EDT reply actions
I think they'd do it for Davis straight up, maybe throw in a lower level prospect
With Hanigan and Mesoraco they’re already set for the foreseeable future. They could really use arms, especially arms that don’t have any questions of cost for several years. You put Davis in the NLC and he’s a number 3. I’ve been beating this drum all off season.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather move Niems due to cost/health
I’m looking at how Marcum got TOR Lawrie & thinking I’d like 75% of that
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been advocating that we send Niemann to the Mets who shouldn't have as much of a want to acquire the more cost effective option
I’d love to get one of Lucas Duda, Ike Davis, or Daniel Murphy who are all pretty similar players with slightly different strengths and weaknesses. The Rays can survive without both of these pitchers next year and we would solve two of our three biggest holes. I don’t think Niemann would be enough so it would likely take another arm, but the Mets are seriously hurting in this regard both short and long term so hopefully something could be worked out.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Ike Davis would be a nice backup plan to trying for Morrison
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
we should try to get one of the KC sticks
davis/nieman and cobb for hosmer and gordon/butler
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 17, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The Royals are going to let Hosmer be the face of the franchise unless you grossly overpay. I'm not saying that they don't make sense as a trade partner, but
look how long the Royals have held onto Soria. I don’t see them moving Hosmer.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer Duda, to be honest, but it could just be ego speaking after hoping we made a play last offseason to bring him in
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
How are the reports on Duda @ 1B?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really sure, I don't think he's regarded as a good corner outfielder or first basemen, but if he's league average and could put up a line
of something like .280/.350/.450, conservatively, while doing most of his damage against righties then you’re talking about an upgrade in the lineup that won’t kill you in the field.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds okay
Still prefer Davis, seems to have the better floor+defense.
And he’d get to play everyday being Jewish /620logic
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's how I view the three guys
Murphy: Most defensive flexibility, least power
Davis: Least defensive flexibility, most power
Duda: Medium both
All three guys have the potential to be .300 hitters with good OBP skills, but it’s the defense and power that separate them in my eyes. Because they’re similar I could see the Mets looking to get rid of one to bring in a much needed arm. I don’t think you can go wrong getting any of the three just that they bring slightly different skillsets to the table
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Do we really need more defensive flex?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it hurts, but you're probably right. I'm thinking more from the Mets perspective that
Duda is more of a middle of the road guy where Davis and Murphy might have more perceived value for bringing more utility at one specific thing.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately Omar Minaya is no longer GMing
It’ll be tougher to pry Davis/Duda away.
Any idea what the Mets value them now?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably pretty highly, I mean both guys look like they can really swing it
I just hope that their need for pitching means they’re more likely to part with a good, young player that might prove to be redundant. Duda probably shouldn’t be in the OF for the Mets so if Davis is healthy then you’re playing a guy out of position. It’s nearly the exact same scenario as the Marlins with Sanchez forcing Morrison into a corner outfield spot where best case he doesn’t kill the team. Duda actually hit better than Morrison, but everyone talks about the latter and not the former.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The Power Of Twitter
But that’s at least 3 1B/DH guys that can be had from either the Reds, Marlins, Mets.
SOMEONE has to want to move one of them.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
and they all could use pitching which we have an excess of.
jonahkeri jonahkeri
Josh Freeman refund please.
Better yet, all are NL teams
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Bingo, another option with an even shorter track record is Chris Parmelee for the Twins
Very limited sample, but he showed a lot of bright spots and scouts seem to affirm that he’s got a legit bat. He’s blocked by Morneau for the next bajillion years and that’s a team that could want a quantity of prospects over quality as they’re pretty barren behind Hicks and Sano.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Given Morneau's health
Is he really “blocking” anyone anymore?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It's true
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It needs to be Winter Meetings already
25 hrs a day of continuous baseball rumors
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
With 6.9% of them being grounded in facts and even dumber ideas than I've seen thrown around here uttered by "professionals"
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And I've not even turned on my stupid switch
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder what Kyle Blanks could be had for.
I know he was coming off major injury but IIRC he played fairly well in Spet.
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 18, 2011 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
He's another guy I like, though I think he's a different skillset than the others mentioned here as thus far
he looks like he’s going to struggle to make contact, but make up for it by hitting at a very high level of power.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Since we are on SD
If the team ends up trading away Upton, it would be nice to get a cheapish quality-center fielder. If a trade could be put together to get Blanks and Maybin, a Maybin/Deezy/Joyce outfield would be nice, With Blanks filling in at first and DH.
They took a chance on Maybin and have been rewarded handsomely, I don't think they're going to cash in that policy yet
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I live in DC
and Duda does look like an up and comer. He would be a great fit.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 17, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Allen Craig
If the Cards resign Pujols, they will not need another 1B/ slow-outfielder around. I’d imagine it would take much to get him as well.
this would be a great option. i wonder what he could be had for
of course only if they resign pujols
Niemann for Davis? No way the Mets do that.
But I could see building a package around Niemann for one of the other two.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 17, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Good job attacking the weakest point of the argument that wasn't even the point, the entire thread is about Duda and tangentially mentions Davis mostly to show that the Mets have other options and should be willing to accept fair value for Duda.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I was threadbombing...I hadn't seen the Duda talk yet.
But yeah, I like Duda and think that’d be doable. I was mostly just commenting based on the amount of attachment to Ike that there is around here…dude’s essentially an idol to some Mets fans.
That’s not to say it wouldn’t keep the team from being realistic and trading him, just that he’s really well loved locally.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 18, 2011 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions
That's a great way to put it, and at the end of the day he's probably the better ballplayer assuming health
It’s like people that think Shields would get us Hosmer. The Royals are being built around Hosmer and fans show up to see him. A deal might be reached, but it’s not likely.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, I'm sure that comes into play with some players.
Not something you can just wave off as totally irrelevant.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 18, 2011 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm overrating TB pitching prospects
but I think with Mesoraco’s breakout, CIN does Grandal for Torres straight up. Good deal for both teams, actually.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 17, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Grandal is a top 30ish prospect no?
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That seems on the high end, but I could be wrong.
I am one of the ones who likes Meseraco a lot more.
is russell martin a FA? a catcher that can hit would be awesome
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 17, 2011 8:58 PM EDT reply actions
I believe he is a FA
But he can’t hit
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He was pretty bad after April
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Right I forgot the games in April don't count
I guess his 391 wOBA in August happened before April too
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They count
But I wouldn’t expect him to do much of that. Nor do I expect him to have the same power #s he had in August. Weighing everything it’s very uninspiring.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess you're also ignoring that his BABIP was ~50 points lower than his career mark
And that he has a 3k+ PA track record of being an above average hitter (which, for the catching position, makes you a good hitter)
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
While true, this is not the same guy that was with Dodgers a couple years ago
His health may not be enough to be a starting C anymore.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You're going to play the health card on a dude who started 118 games at the most demanding position?
This is less than 15 fewer than the MLB leader
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 17, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
He started a lot
But didn’t looked all that great in a lot of games, sluggish. Probably because the Dodgers broke him.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry I can't continue this conversation
Go watch moneyball
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 18, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
This will be my new sig in the year 2069
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe he's arb eligible for one more year, with Austin Romine probably needing more polish and money not an issue it's pretty likely the Yanks bring him back
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually yes you are correct
He’s a S2.
But still don’t like him.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Oct 17, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
We won't outbid the Yankees for him.
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 18, 2011 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions
How about this for off-the-wall thinking.
The O’s need pitching very badly. They also have a catcher that has not really lived up to the hype thus far….
Just sayin’
/ducks
(and before anyone roasts me on this, I’m just throwing shit to the wall. If a few guys can bring up Hosmer then anything is in play.)
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 18, 2011 8:06 AM EDT reply actions
I think Wieters' end to the season might have put a kabosh on that.
Or at least, we’d have to give up a pretty penny.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 18, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Hellickson straight up.
Do you say no?
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 18, 2011 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It's made me stop and think.
But no, Helly is just too valuable right now and we need him with Shields and Price getting expensive. I’d want more for him.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 18, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Wieters is arb-eligible in 2013 and a FA in 2016
that’s the only reason not to do it. If he had one less year of service time — or if the Orioles had discussed a long-term deal back in 2010 — it’d be a no-brainer IMO.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 18, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Orioles hang up on that one
It’s a fair deal in the abstract, though.
by AndrewTorrez on Oct 18, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
That's such an easy yes
Wieters is at the very least a very good catcher and a very good position player is more valuable than a pretty good pitcher any day
by benderbrodriguez on Oct 18, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely amazing study at catcher blocking here:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/landing_crossing_spot_of_uncaught_pitches/
Wieters appears to be worth his weight just for his defense, if he comes through on any of the promise with the bat then he’s one of the most valuable players in the league
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
4+ win season last year, and i think his batting strides are for real. no chance i wouldnt part with a 3-4 starter for an all-star catcher.
You're selling Helly a bit short I think, but the point stands
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd shit my pants if we got Wieters...
Not going to happen to though.
by Snarfalicious on Oct 18, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions




























