Rays Cannot Hold The Lead Or Finish The Comeback, Lose 4-3
by BWoodrum on Oct 3, 2011 9:24 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
Email
PrintThe following recap comes courtesy of SBN Tampa Bay. For a full rundown of today's game, including in-game updates, check out the Rays-Rangers Story Stream.
The Tampa Bay Rays (1-2) could not hold their late lead, falling to the Texas Rangers (2-1) after a disastrous 7th inning. David Price started for the Rays, and though he did not collect his usual array of strikeouts, pitched rather well through 6 and 2/3 innings. He hit the biggest trouble in the seventh inning, when Adrian Beltre lined a single to left and then scored when catcher Mike Napoli powered a pitcher's pitch into the left field bleachers.
Price finished the day with 2 ER on his tab, coming with 1 walk and 3 strikeouts.
The Rays scored first when rookie outfielder Desmond Jennings slaughtered the first pitch of the 4th inning for his first homer of the post season, giving the Rays a 1-0 lead. The Rays held the lead for two innings as Price meandered in and out of trouble and Texas pitcher Colby Lewis dominated the Rays hitters, collecting 6 strikeouts and allowing only 1 hit, the Jennings homer.
Taking the lead in the top of the seventh after a wild inning, the Rangers bullpen then began leaking runs, allowing a Sean Rodriguez RBI ground out in the bottom of the seventh after Mike Gonzalez walked three batters, narrowing the Rangers lead to 4-2.
The Rays scored again in the bottom of the eighth as Desmond Jennings led off the eighth inning with a six-pitch at bat, ending in his second homer of the day, a tall fly ball to the left field bleachers. With the Rays down 4-3, B.J. Upton worked a walked off reliever Mike Adams, and then Evan Longoria, teetering on a Golden Sombrero with three strikeouts already, fell into an 0-2 early. He worked the count back to 3-2, but a Rangers pitch out caught Upton as he attempted to steal second base.
With the bases empty, Longo finally earned a one-out walk, bringing up Matt Joyce, who worked yet another 3-2 count and a walk. This brought Rangers manager Ron Washington from the dugout to bring in lefty Mike Gonzolez from the 'pen.
Gonzelez made short work of Johnny Damon, striking him out on three pitches. Washington then brought in relief ace and closer Neftali Feliz, who threw a wild pitch, but struck out Ben Zobrist after 7 pitches, ending the scoring threat.
In the bottom of the ninth, Sean Rodriguez singled an 0-2 slider into right-center with 1 out. Catcher Kelly Shoppach, who entered the game as a defensive replacement after Rodriguez pinch hit for start John Jaso, worked strong eighth-pitch at bat, but grounded a double play ball to third baseman Beltre for the final two outs of the game.
Notes:
- Casey Kotchman had an impressive first inning, playing a major role in each out. Defensively, David Price also had a nice day, making a nifty play to help himself out of a sixth inning jam.
- The Rangers hit an absurd 16 ground balls tonight, miraculously collecting a .276 batting average on balls in play (BABIP).
- John Jaso had no chance against the Rangers running game, allowing a combined four steals. He got little help from Price -- whose pick off move barely requires the runner to walk back to first -- and Brandon Gomes -- who appeared to have no interest in slowing the runners whatsoever. Jaso did, however, bait Elvis Andrus into a crucial 3rd out in the 7th inning.
- The 2-3-4 part of the Rays lineup went 0 for 8 with 4 walks and 5 strikeouts.
The Rays will be in action again tomorrow with game time scheduled for a 2:07 p.m. ET first pitch.
204 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This loss gets hung on Joe
G3 of the LDS is no time to see if Gas Can has worked it out—He hasn’t
I said when the rosters were being made, the problem of Howell being on it, was Joe’s tendency to think it’s 2009 again and use him
Also, when did Brandon Gomes go from a middle relif, lower leverage guy to pitching in back to back high leverage situations and failing?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Agenda'd.
This completely falls on Gomes, not Howell — who has, though you choose not to accept it, done well against lefties this year (2.79 FIP, 2.99 xFIP vs 68 lefties in 2011).
Gomes, who walked two batters, and Maddon, who used Gomes in such a high-leverage situation, and possibly the offense, which let a sub-par pitcher own them, deserve credit for tonight’s loss.
I defended the Gomes-Moreland match-up from Saturday, but this Gomes appearance befuddles me.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
I certainly acknowledge that, but you cannot call Howell's year good in any way shape or form
When he got those outs you speak of, rarely was the game on the line
I remember three AB, Rasmus, Wieters and now Hamilton, and so will most Rays fans
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Howell and "good" do not belong in the same sentence. He is absolute garbage.
by kapaafire on Oct 3, 2011 9:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Who are you talking to?
Because I certainly never called his season good. All I said was that he’s effective against lefties.
Sorry, but allowing a single to on of the better hitters in the league is not so huge a sin. Bringing in Gomes for a lineup that has now seen him every game, that’s different.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
This response will go unanswered, as usual.
You used facts and statistics and actual information. That tends to shut him up.
14/f/cali
Get out of here. Bring in Gomes and there is at least SOME confidence that what needs to be done CAN be done. With Howell everyone and their mothers predicted runs coming in, it was just a matter of how many. There is no post-hoc spin here
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "not since they nerfed sunfire capes"
†††If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Oct 4, 2011 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm with Woody
Gomes gave away two walks to much lesser hitters. And I mean gave away. They didn’t have to battle in the least. I agreed with Howell over McGee but didn’t feel great about either option. Hamilton is a helluva hitter.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
I was with you guys, but had to change my mind once I researched it more.
I don’t see how you don’t go with Peralta there.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, weird.
I’m fine with the Gomes decision, but Howell…woof.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I think his plan was to have Peralta hold the lead for the inning with Wade bridging the game to the 9th.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
He was warming up until the HR
Joe didn’t seem to want to use him so early once we were behind.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Hamilton looked awful on strike 1
The breaking pitch was what was needed IMO. Dudes a tough out. I don’t even fault the decisiont to go to Gomes. I fault Gomes’ execution.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Gomes deserves his share of the blame, but Howell has no business in that game. I don't care what Howell has done to lefties this year, you use Peralta there.
Howell is going to be a very lonely man this off-season as his career is probably over.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Yea I agree, this lose in on Maddon.
Gomes has been used in all 3 games now. I dont understand why he used him again when they have the likes of Peralta, who for some reason Maddon wont use all of a sudden, and Davis in the pen who have been rested.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 3, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, seriously.
Why have a wealth of starting level pitching if you are not going to use it?!
He could have brought in Davis to protect that one run lead. HE BEAT THE RANGERS LAST YEAR AT TEXAS, at least someone with a track record of competency. JP versus one of the best hitters?! What is the use of leaving Price in there? La Russa pulled Carpenter out versus Lee and the bullpen came in without men on base and closed the game also.
I read this page very much and barely post. Please be nice.
He's worried about Peralta giving up a flyball which could go over the wall
Peralta also gets strikeouts and doesn’t really walk anyone. You have to use him in leverage that high. If he gives up a sac fly then you trade an out for a run. If a GB sneaks through then it’s surely two and you don’t get an out.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Howell
I understand that the Rangers and Hamilton are weaker against curveballs. Having said that, Howell hasn’t been throwing quality pitches for a month, at least. He’s admitted he’s tired, his confidence has to be a little shaken after the recent struggles.
At that point in the game/this point in the season, I want the best pitcher on the mound. I’d rather lose the game with our best pitcher, as opposed to playing matchups with the reigning MVP. I get that Howell has solid numbers over the course of the season against lefties, but it’s not like Peralta has struggled against them.
Well said, and again, i don't recall many high leverage successes Howell has had this year
ubless getting out the scary LH bat DeWayne Wise counts
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I have to agree with both of you
Really, the sin wasnt that Howell was put into the game, but rather the idea that he somehow merited a spot on the postseason roster in the first place
by GomesSweetGomes on Oct 3, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
"I don't recall" is the preamble to a losing argument
I went and looked it up. Howell has been in above average leverage indeces 22 times this year. In 11 he had a positive impact (WPA), in 11 he had a negative one.
And my method of counting is unfair to him, as I’m including the times before Joe realized he should be strictly a LOOGY.
Why not just use SD & MD at that point
6 shutdowns, 13 meltdowns
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Additionally, he had the 3rd most total SD+MD showing that he was making some sort of impact in high leverage more than most, the MD numbers show that it was more often negative than positive
Joe’s reliance on a wounded animal has cost us all season and continues to this day. I rarely find fault with Mr. Maddon, but this needs to stop, literally, yesterday.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
SD+MD works too, and somewhat better.
But the numbers don’t fit my apologist agenda. Although, we should be clear that neither way is probably predicatively relevant.
Should Joe have used Peralta? Absolutely. Are people’s thoughts on Howell being influenced by a few recent high leverage failures? Yes.
Is it ever a good idea to bring pop psychology into your analysis, no matter how clear it seems? I don’t think so, though others may disagree. That’s just a barrier I set for myself.
Agree with this.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It's less pop psychology (where did this phrase even originate from) and more seeing his mechanics and all the hanging
pitches he’s thrown. I apologize if I came across as thinking the mental was any part of this as it’s the physical I’ve found lacking.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
You get a swinging strike off the plate on the first pitch, why throw anything in the zone until you have to at that point
He’s either an idiot or has no idea where his pitches are going. I don’t want either of those things on my team.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Can't believe they've lost the last two games
When the pitching matchups were so decisively in their favor. Then again, that’s baseblal for ya.
It’s absolutely ridiculous and sickening, however, that a shlub like Colby Lewis owns this team. He’s not a good pitcher and throws absolute slop up there.
This lineup is literally the only one that Colby dominated this year.
His ERA is inflated by a couple of very short outings that he got blown up in.
People shitting on Colby Lewis don't know a damn thing about the game of baseball
Sure he probably had a better start than you can expect, but away from BiA he’s been very, very good. I’ve got a .345 wOBA at home with a .302 on the road. Add in that the Trop is a pitcher’s paradise and you shouldn’t be surprised that he had a really good start.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
9 of Texas' 10 runs this series have come in two innings.
Frustrating that we’re two bad innings away from a 3-0 sweep.
Joel Peralta should have faced Hamilton...he's our best solution vs LHB
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
Peralta should have replaced Price, frankly.
Then maybe Hamilton comes up with no one on in the top of the 8th — a much better scenario for Howell.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
This
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 3, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What is your fascination with defending Howell?
In an obscenely small sample size he has had success against lefties this year, but he’s a mental case on the mound with awful mechanics. To effectively make decisions you should use the numbers and use your eyes and I haven’t seen anything confidence-inspiring out of Howell this year let alone his disastrous last month or two.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, puzzling that Maddon refuses to use his best in the highest of leverage. He'd still have Farnsy and the rest of em for later in the game.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
This
is what I mentioned above. Did anyone think Howell was going to get an out there?
Hindsight being 20/20
The BJ steal made no sense with no outs. S-Rod and Shoppach batting against Feliz made no sense. He leaves Price in too long, always. He seems to fall apart quickly, but Maddon treats him like a vet. I think Price is still acclimating to the long season. His bullpen management aside, these were all decisions that I was screaming to the TV before the play actually happened. Then, the one time he should have called for the steal, S-Rod in the 9th with 2 strikes on Shop, he doesn’t send him. Everything Joe has done during the regular season that has gotten the extra 2%, he abandons in the clutch. If anyone is a -2.0 clutch it is Joe.
Upton steal was fine
Adams is a great pitcher, getting a RISP would’ve been nice with three chances to score him. Rangers guessed right, tip your cap.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 3, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
If its anyone other than longo at the plate let him run but with 0 outs you can afford to see what longo can do. He may have walked he may not have but even if BJ is successful you take the bat out of our best hitters hands.
Your best hitter is at the plate with the "heart of the order" behind him
Even if B.J. is safe then they just pitch around Longo and put him on. Longo is about the only guy I want up in high leverage at this point.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
I doubt they even pitch around Longo, let alone walk him
This is Ron Washington we’re talking about. I was okay with the SB attempt, as it puts a runner in scoring position with no outs. It was not the best count to run on, however. Once it got to a pitcher’s count, BJ should have stayed put.
They absolutely would have just put Longo on and opened up the force play
It’s the old school decision and that’s the only book Ronny Wash reads from
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Also puts the go ahead run on first, so I'm still not convinced
The mistake to me is the count he ran on, not that he ran.
No one can predict the future, but I don't see how they pitch to Longo as the tying run
One swing and it’s a tie game. Joyce would have to hit a double with runners on first and second to even come close to scoring the tying run and they should have brought in Gonzo to get both him and Damon.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
How do you figure Joyce needs a double if BJ is on second?
He can score from second on many (if not most) singles. And given Joyce’s pull tendencies, even an out stands a decent chance of moving BJ to third with one out.
That's my fault I misremembered and thought it was 4-2 at that point thus Evan would have had to score from 1st
If I’m the opposition I’d still rather bring in Gonzalez to face Joyce with runners on 1st and 2nd, than Longo with just a runner on 2nd. Every team this year has done their best to not lose the game to Longo. Take him away and make someone else beat you.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
with no outs.
I don’t know that they would have walked him, and if they did I would welcome it.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
I'm not when they can just bring in Mike Gonzalez and erase him and Damon pretty quickly
It’s sad when a Longo homer is our best and possibly only shot at scoring runs late in a game.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
All I saw was a nasty strikeout, not sure which game you watched.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
My fantasy result with a BJ on 2nd, Longo on 1st, no out situation
Though I’ve never seen Joyce bunt, and I can’t imagine PHing EJ for him there. But it’s my delusion; you can’t take it away from me.
This is a good and solid take.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Against lefties he very much is
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't think they would waste a pitch with Longo up. It was a great call by tex.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Why pitch to Napoli
I know you stat geeks will call me out on this, but why even pitch to Napoli after the steal? You have the open base in a full count so why not intentionally pass the guy? The clear call was walk the guy and hope for the double play or force at 3rd…so wtf happened? Napoli’s HR took the crowd out because we had one fucking hit at the time. Bullshit…blast me of you want but Maddon or whoever made the wrong fucking call…It’s a shame I wasted my money going to the game…
This
I fucking hate Boston for blocking the Napoli trade to us.
Wait when was this?
I guess I missed this but when did Boston block a trade for Napoli?
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 3, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Sox blocked him getting to us on waivers in 2010. The penalty of winning the division that year.
Now this is interesting
by Jonah Keri on Aug 28, 2010 9:09 PM PDT on ’nuff said
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-August-080110 Mike Napoli claimed on waivers by unidentified AL team. Absolutely obliterates LH. Can play C or 1B, but obviously would most lik…
Whoops
Now this is interesting
by Jonah Keri on Aug 28, 2010 9:09 PM PDT on ’nuff said
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-August-080110 Mike Napoli claimed on waivers by unidentified AL team. Absolutely obliterates LH. Can play C or 1B, but obviously would most lik…
oh ok thanks
good thing Sox didnt trade for him
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 4, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
But still he was available in the offseason
we coulda tried for him again.I dont know who though. We dont have an overrated,very overpaid player.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 4, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone have a comment rod if s rod went weakly into 2nd base on the last play?
I was at the game so no replay for me, but it seemed like Kinsler took a long time pivoting
And was a sitting duck.
Worst possible managerial decision by Maddon
In what universe is it the wise thing to do, putting JP Howell in with the bases loaded against the Rangers best hitter. With a manager that knows that his team RDD (Run Deficit Disorder). This one is totally on Maddon being stubborn. What has Howell done in the last month, for him to think JP would have any success?
He was doing his best Tito impersonation.
I was expecting ‘Wake’ to come in follow jp.
maddon made a few questionable decisions but plenty of blame to go around
Middle of the order was atrocious. Longoria a non factor. If only someone would have been on base for either of Jennings HR. Still this was a winnable game against a very good ballclub. I wish maddon would have pinch hit shoppach for Damon when the lefty gonzalez came into the game.
Hellickson, its on you. But I hope the middle of the order shows up more for you than it did for price.
by raysfaninminnesota on Oct 3, 2011 11:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Evan looked totally lost.
Was swingin at air and struck out on like 3 pitches twce I think.Swung at everything.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Oct 4, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't care what the fuck anyone says, there is absolutely no reason to bring in Howell there
Everyone knew what the fucking result would be. He shit the bed again.
@dobbertweets
#FreeSandy
Embarrassing that the Rays go 0-2 with Price & Shields
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
Not blaming them (well, I am blaming Shields)
but how do you not at least split the games with your aces going?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 3, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Game was decided by J.P. Howell and by Shoppach vs. a RHP
That’s all I have to say about the roster construction/usage
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
Shoppach used
up all his magic beans earlier this season. You think Joe would know that.
Jaso is a horror defensively.
He reminds me a pony league catcher, who the whole time he is in there, is just praying to himself that no one steals since he has not shot of throwing anyone out.
"defensively"
He’s garbage at the plate too. So he’s just a bad player at this point.
@dobbertweets
#FreeSandy
I think
This is a disservice to pony league catchers. My 13-14 year olds have better technique then Jaso
F-bombs outside the GDT are a bannable offense
consider this a warning
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Oct 4, 2011 8:54 AM EDT
Ugh, he's so terrible
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
This loss is on Maddon
Everyone knows it should of been Davis or Peralta. An indefensible call to bring in Gomes.
And what about Farnsworth?
Why the fuck couldn’t he pitch?
I sure hope you guys match up well vs Matt Harrison
although it’d be pretty amazing if you don’t
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
blame falls everywhere for me
In the 4th after DJ’s HR upton was on second with 0 out and we didnt even manage to move him up nevermind drive him in. In the 8th, bases loaded 1 out we should have scored more than 1!
It just shows how much we are missing depth wise. We need to focus on making the bench a lot stronger next year.
Bringing in JP???? dumb move.
Upton stealing with longo at the plate i dont agree with either.
Has anyone in this thread pointed out that maybe more blue seats will have tix to game 4, and make the Rays feel comfortable?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "not since they nerfed sunfire capes"
†††If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
Not yet, but that was my thought when I saw the sell-out crowd on tv.
Hopefully the blue seats make it to tonight’s game.
And I agree. Loss is on Maddon. Bringing in Gomes/Howell over Peralta/Davis is a big mistake. Davis is obvs capable of going more than one inning. I thought (from early on last night) that Price was only barely keeping it together. I would have pulled him for Davis after 5 innings and had Davis go 6-7-8 (or until he couldn’t do it anymore) then Peralta for the 9th. Why even put a long distance reliever in the pen if you arent going to use him.
minor corretcion
Price was charged with 3 ER’s.
Sorry, I’m not getting why he gets such a pass. In 5 of his last 7 starts he’s pitched with a lead and coughed it up. He deserves some of the blame, although I do agree the using Howell at all was a major mistake.
And Upton’s comment about getting caught stealing in the 8th is pure crap – “I guess I have to think more”. I like BJ, but therein lies his problem.
Evan Longoria left the stadium without speaking to the media
Can you blame him? He has to be thoroughly embarrassed by striking out three times against the greatness that is Colby Lewis
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Yeah, we totally got into the playoffs despite Longo.
DFA that bum.
'That is an absurd username.' - Steve Slowinski.
by Concretepiggy on Oct 4, 2011 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I think i go over board in the Monday Morning recap pointing out just how good
Longoria’s been, and because of it entitled to write how God awful bad he was yesterday.
We needed his bat, he failed. He has one last chance
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
What do you want him to do, hit 1.000?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 4, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying there's nothing between 1000 and his performance yesterday?
Those PA’s by him looked like a RH Reid Brignac
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I agree he looked bad
But “he has one last chance” sounds like you’re ready to release him
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 4, 2011 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course not, obviously since this is an elimination game, for this season
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
You're not really entitled to call out any player considering you don't go to any games and have never contributed to a win in any way
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Here's some fun facts for anyone defending the use of JP 'Gas Can' Howell
RISP 990 OPS
2 Outs RISP 929 OPS
Hi Leverage 883 OPS
In September (10 games) 1000 OPS
Never should have seen a playoff roster
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
If you're defending the decision to bring in Howell
You’ve ceased being an analyst, and are acting as an apologist.
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 4, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
No, there are legitimate reasons why Maddon made the call he did.
I don’t agree with his overall reliever use in that inning, but after bringing Gomes in and getting to Hamilton, JP was a defensible choice.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Howell never makes a playoff roster after his performance this year
As for a match up v Hamilton, go with your best pitcher either handed, and as i saw it Howell was about #15 as the season ended
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Howell made the playoffs as a LOOGY. He got used as a LOOGY.
Though I do agree I wish Maddon had gone with Peralta that inning.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
LGWSOGY
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 4, 2011 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Thus far this series has come down to the big inning
And we’re down because we’ve failed to stem the tide in two big innings. If that doesn’t point to a failure in bullpen usage, I don’t know what does.
I understand that Hamilton has sucked against lefties this year, but why not Mcgee?
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 4, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
There is no defense for pitching Howell with the game on the line. Watch the guy pitch sometime instead of staring at numbers.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Eh, I changed my opinion once I looked into it more.
I still say if there’s no Peralta back there, he’s not necessarily a bad choice. Has better numbers than McGee against lefties, although yes, I agree that he’s a mess out there right now. I’d prefer McGee in that case.
Another thing worth considering: Hamilton hits fastballs well, and his worst pitches are sliders and curves. McGee is almost all fastball, while Howell has his curve. So that’s an interesting debate….also depends how much Maddon thinks Howell has improved recently. He’s settled down over August and September, so you can make the case he’s not nearly as much of a disaster as we all feel.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, just read your other piece. I'm with you on the Gomes decision. It was good process that didn't work out. Howell was bad process that didn't work out.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
There's really no explainable reason why Peralta wasn't in there....ugh.
So frustrating.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn't the idea that flyball pitchers are better against flyball hitters?
Better at inducing fly outs as opposed to HRs. It’s when they’re the opposite that one side torches the other.
The pitch aspect of it all is interesting…that’s something worth looking into more. Which pitcher’s repertoire would be most effective against Hamilton? Also, Hamilton crushes righties, so whose splits win out?
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I was speaking more to the fact that Peralta is more likely to get a ball in the air.
Hamilton, more than almost anyone in baseball, is more likely to put a ball in the air over the fence.
Hamilton for his career has a career 107 wRC+ against LHP. He has a career 146 against RHP.
For his career his best pitch for him is a FB (2.34 wFB/c) whereas he’s much less effective against the CB and SL (.77 and .48 respectively). A LOOGY can come in and just pile up the low-away SL/CB and worst case scenario he dumps one for a 1B in LF.
With Peralta, to pitch effectively he needs to work solely off the change. Man on third, Jaso behind the dish, how do you feel about that?
Yeah, all I could think is that Maddon didn't want a long flyball there, but with 2 outs I'm fine with rolling the dice on that
A single scores 2 so even trying to get a groundball isn’t that great because of the propensity that they get through.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
"He’s [Howell] settled down over August and September"
What games were you watching, Steve? JP was practically on the Red Sox payroll for September.
Sorry bub, faulty memory there.
He had 10 appearances in September and only allowed runs to score in one of them. He was rather hittable down the stretch against Bos and NY, so yeah, I get what you mean, but he wasn’t quite as awful as we remember.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Where is the fanshot with all our comments from when the roster was announced?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
I'm not great at search, but i clearly remember blasting the choice of Gas Can here and on twitter
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
"Remember this comment, if Joe can avoid using Gas Can we win this series "
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 4, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
.
interesting to keep Howell over Ramos
I think I would have swapped those two.
by Dbullsfan on Sep 30, 2011 11:50 AM EDT
in the past month, Howell has pretty much only gotten anyone out by accident
by AndrewTorrez on Sep 30, 2011 1:23 PM EDT
don’t see how you can use Howell versus anyone
by AndrewTorrez on Sep 30, 2011 11:54 AM EDT
Fucking JP
Maddon’s Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
by Doug09 on Sep 30, 2011 12:19 PM EDT
Remember this comment, if Joe can avoid using Gas Can we win this series
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Sep 30, 2011 12:51 PM EDT
Elliot why?
Srod, Brig is enough to man SS
by Dome Biscuit on Sep 30, 2011 1:02 PM EDT
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 4, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Yesterday's attendance was 32+K and announced as a sell out
Today there are about 10K tix remaining, so if not sold, the “crowd” will be about 22K?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Because if not
Seriously, STFU. You make some great points about JP, but this is just piling on for no good reason.
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 4, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's see, the 98th worst hit economy in the US.
Let’s schedule a playoff game in the middle of the fucking day. I wonder why its not sold out.
F-bombs outside the GDT are a bannable offense
consider this a warning
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Bud has little to do with the TV networks programming
As long as the Yabkees, Phillies and Red Sox make the playoffs, the Rays and about everyone else will take a back seat
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I'm looking forward to that Red Sox series
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Why soes Shelton continue to dodge the bullet?
They have seen this guy multiple times this season, yet they continue to look childish at the plate. Not a single person on this team looked good against him. This is not one of those cases where one pitcher has a batter’s number. This is a whole team! Only Deezy looked good against him, the one guy who Shelton has not corrupted yet. It reminds me of Jim Leavitt when he coached the Bulls; no ability to adjust in-game. Its either Shelton’s way or no way.
Because the team looked exactly as bad with Henderson?
Sometimes it ain’t the coach
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 4, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, I dunno. I understand the sentiment, but there's also the fact that our daily lineup isn't necessarily the strongest.
I’m constantly surprised by how well it does, considering the sort of players making up the bottom of the lineup.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
That's the difference
The lack of depth in our lineup and bench make it tough.
Really? I dont know how to do it,
but I’d like to take a look at the games longo has played against Colby and see if his approach has changed at all, or if Colby keeps patterning his pitches to Longo the same way. This would indicate that coaching is a problem. If Longo is not learning how to improve against one of his biggest problem pitchers, then why have a hitting coach?
That theory is as tired and boring as the 'BJ is lazy' posts
Was it less than two years ago posters were screaming for the head of Jim Hickey, and today?
That’s just plaing ignorant
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Ignorance is bliss
You’re dreaming
It appears as it stands now possibly the 4 highest spending teams will make the playoffs, with only LAA still in question
Yanks, Sox, Tigers
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Aug 26, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up actions
Shocking, on Aug 26 i thought the Red Sox and Yankees would both make
the playoffs and the Rays would not?
This is fun, what else do you have to offer?
Let’s see Fire Bobby Ranos, for not warming the relievers up properly?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Maybe we just need better hitters
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 4, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe so
Or our hitting coach needs to read the Extra 2%
Do you really think our lineup, on paper, stacks up with the rest of the playoff teams?
I find it hard to blame the hitting coach when we’ve actually outscored one of the best lineups in the league this series.
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Oct 4, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
No, and I am as happy as anyone that we have made it this far.
As someone who has lived in Tampa almost forever and seen other teams enjoy success with reasonable payrolls and good attendance, I just do not understand why our market does not support baseball like it should so that we can buy better players and keep some of our talent long term.
That bench is despicable
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
The left handed specialist the Rays needed against Hamilton was signed by the Marlins
Imagine… $2M total for Balfour and Choate replacing the roster spot waste of Howell and take your pick on the second. Those were the two offseason signings that got to me… not Crawford, Benoit, etc. A net difference of a million dollars to have those two guys on the postseason roster.
Not sure where you're getting your numbers, but they're making more than that. Here's Balfour
2 years/$8.1M (2011-12), plus 2013 club option
signed by Oakland as a free agent 1/11
11:$3.75M, 12:$4M, 13:$4.5M club option ($0.35M buyout)
and Choate:
2 years/$2.5M (2011-12)
signed by Florida as a free agent 12/15/10
11:$1M, 12:$1.5M
$0.15M in performance bonuses based on games
Additionally, we would have lost two of our hundred picks which is whatever. I’m fully with you that these guys should have been kept, but when you misrepresent the numbers you do a disservice to the cause.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Did he pinch Hickey's nipples?
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Clarification... that's a net for Balfour, minus Farnsworth $3M+
I know Farnsworth has been good… but there was something special about Balfour. And I’d love to have seen Choate in that situation rather than holding onto the past with JP.
Price might have a terrible move, but at least he picked off Gentry. Seems like that should have been mentioned if you're going to cast stones.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Mike Gonzalez came in for a three pitch strike out.
That was the only batter he faced. Mike Adams was the Rangers pitcher who allowed the walks.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I hope him and Howell have a long catch off a short pier
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 4, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll be embarrassed if they're even in Durham next year
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 4, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
On one hand
Of course i’m upset we lost, it sucks that all the things we thought we were getting with S-Rod haven’t really come to fruition this year, same with Briggy, and that our starting pitching has looked shaky. I never expect us to post big numbers offensively but I thought those two could fare a bit better than that. We’re so dependent on our D and pitching so… yeah.
On the other hand, Texas doesn’t look anything like the big bad wolf that the media played them up to be. I also don’t think we’re done today, but time will tell.
by BrokeBearMountain on Oct 4, 2011 10:38 AM EDT reply actions
lol if you think the rangers get any media attention
they’re a team full of homegrown players and didn’t even have a playoff commercial on tbs this year. it’s all about the east coast and the brewers for some reason
by brighten the corners on Oct 4, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Please read our Community Guidelines.
Related FanPosts on DRaysBay
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
DRB Suggestion Box
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
