Rays Lose, Season Over...But What A Season
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 9:14 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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There are many pictures I could have picked for today's game recap. I could have gone with a picture of Sean Rodriguez barreling over Mike Napoli at the plate, scoring the Rays first run. Rodriguez was probably the star of the game for the Rays, reaching base three times and scoring in each instance.
Or I could have gone with a picture of Casey Kotchman roping a dribbler up the middle, as Kotchman has been emblematic of the Rays this season: the improbable and impossible turned into reality. Kotchman had two hits on the day -- and you guessed it, one of them #Magic'd it's way through the infield -- and drove in two runs.
Or maybe I should have chosen a picture of Evan Longoria. Even though Evan went hitless today, Longoria was one of the main reasons the Rays reached the postseason; his two home runs against New York last Wednesday night are two home runs that will stick with me forever. Despite his early season injury and subsequent struggles, Longoria never complained and never gave up. When it would have been easy to admit defeat, time and time again this year, he said "No."
But what about Johnny Damon? Maybe I should have chosen a picture of Damon diving into first base in the sixth inning, gunning his hardest for a hit even though there was no one on base. It would seem fitting, as Damon was a clubhouse leader in grit, scrap, and smiles all season long. Remember his initial press conference, when him and Manny were joking back and forth with each other and causing us all to explode with anticipation? Things may not have gone down as we all expected -- and Damon may not have been the solution to the Rays offensive problems -- but I don't regret that signing one bit.
I could have easily chosen a picture of Jeremy Hellickson, as there are many shots of him looking frustrated in the wake of allowing three home runs over four innings to the Rangers. And that's how I'm sure many of us feel: frustrated, disappointed, and sad that the season has come to such a screeching halt. But that wouldn't be fair to Hellboy, who had an impressive (if BABIP influenced) rookie season. There's no need for us to finish the year on such a sour note.
And so, I ended up choosing a picture of Matt Moore. Not only did he dominate this series, allowing only one run over 10 innings of work against the potent Rangers lineup (including three innings on short rest today), but his story is one that fits so well within that larger team narrative. As 8th round pick from New Mexico, few people expected him to reach the majors, nonetheless to morph into the best pitching prospect in all of baseball. This season alone, he jumped from Double-A to Triple-A to the majors, and at each step of the way continued to dazzle. Improbable? Unreal? Both in spades.
But even more than that, when I look at Moore, I see the future. We suffered through a long year of waiting for Desmond Jennings, Brandon Guyer, Jake McGee, etc., but finally, the future is now. This season was a reloading year; next year, we let the kids play for keeps.
This was a Rays team that was supposed to struggle to hit .500, that supposedly didn't have a bullpen and would collapse as the Yankees and Red Sox ran over them. This was a team that started the season 0-6, lost Longoria to injury for a month, and still managed to climb back in the race. This was a team fueled by #Magic and supported by #Legends. This was a team that never knew when to quit, right up until the last inning of today's game.
These are the sort of seasons that build a franchise from the ground up. And next season....well, just look at Moore up there. Next year is gonna be fun.
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"Roping a dribbler"
Awesome.
by Passionate Apathy on Oct 4, 2011 9:39 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
From a Braves fan who experienced a collapse firsthand,
Congrats on all that this team has accomplished. This looks like it’ll be one hell of a squad in 2012.
"I’ll tell you one thing: The grass at Tiger Stadium tastes best."
by LesMilesEatsGrass on Oct 4, 2011 9:40 PM EDT reply actions
Der, thanks.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 4, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a shame it had to end this way
But it was a great season nonetheless.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!
I'm down with the ending to the season
It would have been nice to move on, and I’m disappointed, but getting to the playoffs this season while leaving Boston out was amazing. And being disappointed about losing in the playoffs is a loooong way away from where I was in 2005-2007 when I kept telling myself, “They have a lot of talent, and this could be the year.” It’s a good feeling to be sad about losing in the playoffs. Good season. Can’t wait for a suspenseful offseason full of AA sniping AF’s targets!
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "FUCK THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
$tu is pissed, lol
“I am frustrated this year,” Sternberg said of losing to the Rangers for the second consecutive year. “We’ve replicated last year [on the field] and our attendance numbers were down 15 percent and our ratings were down. The rubber has got to meet the road at some point here. When you go through the season, you control your own destiny, if you win out. We’re getting to the point where we don’t control our own destiny. This is untenable as a model going forward.”
Sternberg made no threats nor speculations, but it’s never good to hear owners talk about rubber hitting the road.
“When I came in here in ’05 and ’06, I saw the stars, and I was confident that we could put a winning product on the field — and I was told by you guys and others that all we needed was a winning team,” Sternberg said. “Well, we won. We won. We won. And we won. And it didn’t do it.”
“[The Rangers] thump. They pitch the ball. They have some pitchers who’ve improved and they went out in the offseason and during the season and spent and spent and picked up some players,” Sternberg said. “You go back a couple years and their attendance and ours was identical. And they’re a different franchise this year. They won. [Attendance] went through the roof.”
“When you’re sitting here at this point and you lost by a run, you know another X dollars might have changed things,” Sternberg said. “Three or five million wouldn’t have changed things necessarily but 15 to 30 might have. That’s where we were. And for the foreseeable future that’s what we’ve got.”
The Rays have been pushing for a new stadium for several years. That is not a popular agenda at any time, but particularly not during a crushing recession.
“You can look at us and potentially Oakland as the only teams in that respect,” Sternberg said. “And Oakland by hook and crook will have a situation clearer well before we will, and we will be the last man standing. Or in this case, lying down.”
But how long can the Rays continue to produce talent and stay within their budget?
“I don’t have all the answers to it, but we’ve answered any questions stadium related, market related, economy related, area related, sport related,” Sternberg said. "Whatever you want to say, there are 29 other teams passing us like we’re going in reverse right now. Except on the field. And at some point that changes. …
“To a team, winning solves ills. And we are four years into winning and we’re no better off right now.”
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
I would love for him to comment again.
What a petulant asshole.
i support casual racism
by Boddington on Sep 19, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I literally wish I had killed myself on the train station after I got laid off
by Sean O on Sep 28, 2011 7:49 PM PDT
I want a goddamned criminal investigation.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 7:48 PM PDT
by internet commenter on Oct 5, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
If you tell everyone and their mother that the season is going to be a rebuilding one, what do you think that's going to do for attendance?
Its not like the team was winning throughout the summer. They were in third place. He wants to compare a 1st place World Series contender (2010) to a third place team that needed the most incredible collapse in sports history to backdoor it into the playoffs? That’s a hell of a narrative, Stewie.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
Who was pounding the rebuilding narrative? The team or the media?
% media
_% team
assign the blame
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Third place teams draw too
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it's time this site stops turning a blind eye to the real problem
the Rays have and address them with some informative threads over the off season. I know Collette did a piece on attendance and why fans don’t come to the Trop, but it’s time this site uses it’s internet influence and let the fanbase know the issue has reached the critical stages
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Yeah, I'm planning on it...it's one of the things on the docket for the offseason.
I know all the reasons we always list about why the attendance is so low, but the results are still a pretty big outlier.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It needs some serious socio-economic analysis
Maury’s numbers were depressing yesterday:
17% down at the gate
37.5% down on TV
I get the gate with the economy but 37.5% down on TV? That’s people that just don’t care.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The one caviat there and Stu himself addressed it earler is they were up something like 70+% in '10
Couple that with losing star players a very slow start and bingo. It’d be interesting to see the TV ratings in Aug/Sep if they rose significantly and approached last season’s levels
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I don't know if we're going to be given access to that data, but it's worth a shot.
Certainly would be interesting.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions
SunSports sent out several media releases about TV ratings last year that should be on line
The team did as well. Both radio and TV were in the top 7.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm talking of a more monthly breakdown.
I’d love more detailed data than they typically give out, but we can probably still find enough to make it work.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
7/27/10
The Rays might be seventh from the bottom in attendance this season, but they are seventh from the top in television ratings. According to data compiled by Sports Business Daily, the Rays rank seventh in Major League Baseball in local television ratings with an average of 5.52. That means the average viewership for a Rays game is 5.52 percent of all Tampa Bay homes with televisions. That adds up to an average of about 99,681 homes.
The 5.52 rating is a 70.9 percent increase from last season — the second-largest jump in the majors behind the Nationals, whose TV ratings have jumped 139.3 percent with the help of rookie pitching sensation Stephen Strasburg. However, the Nationals still are third from the bottom in overall ratings with a 1.34.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
What is the solution? Its easy copy to beat up on the fanbase, but what are Maury's solutions? What are yours?
Contraction? Relocation? Conscripting fans?
Stop pretending, too, that all Stu had to do was put a winning team on the field. That’s incredibly shortsighted, given the complex problems facing baseball in the area, and I am pretty sure that Stu knows this and is using it all for leverage.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
I dunno....honestly, I think that's what a lot of people thought to begin with.
Maybe the more locals disagree. But when I got started on DRB and was doing my attendance pieces, that was basically my conclusion (win and the fans will come) and I don’t remember there being many people jumping out of the woodwork pointing out caveats at the time.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably because the area is in a unique situation in baseball. You'll never convince me that INTEREST in the Tampa Bay Rays is not very high in the area.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
Agreed, somewhat.
I think the interest is high, but this is still first and foremost a football town. Over at SB TB, what with Monday night’s action, we had a huge night for readers…but the top 7 most-read articles or so were all related to the Bucs. Rays coverage barely got touched.
But FL is a really unique market, and I don’t think many people appreciate just how unique.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, to a degree. But I'm talking pregame coverage, postgame, in-game, etc.
Even if you control for the difference that the nfl typically has a much larger following and interest than mlb, it’s seemed like a big difference to me. For two such ‘high profile’ games going on at once, the difference in interest was impressive.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It surprises me, too. Can you check the #s for the SB Philly, NY, and Detroit equivalents?
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
Bucs Nation - just over 7K readers that day. DRB - just under 5K.
And, for what it’s worth, the 7K was a surge for BN while 5K for us was lower than almost any day last week. Still above average, but nothing all that wild.
I can’t really check the regionals in the past (minus my own)…I should’ve thought to look that night.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Would've been interesting. A Bucs/Manning-less Colts game doubled the ratings of Yankees/Tigers.
NFL’s stranglehold on pop culture is unbelievable.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
It is, and it's got a huge grasp in the TB area.
Been around a lot longer, so it’s understandable. Just….it’s a football town.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, then how do we fix that, because last year and the year before it wasn't much of a football town.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It's always been a football town.
In terms of the interest each team gets. And if the Bucs aren’t selling out, then yeah, that does point to their being larger issues in play as well.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a "who's winning" town
Most of the fans only care about being a part of something that is popular. That’s not much different from everywhere else I’ve been, but it’s exacerbated when you have a very small core of die-hards.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
How much of that decline in readership is due to the downturn in quality while I was banned?
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As you and i discussed on twittter, Stu isn't really promoting the product
You have to basically give the games away in April and May with any tix give aways you have found that have worked elsewhere
Rays, in some ways have sabotaged their own attendance
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Yes
The 4-tier ticket model sucks – get rid of it. Go with a 2-tier if you insist on doing premium games but no more than 2. drop the same day walk-up charge as well. If you have too much concession inventory on hand from one night, make it BOGO the next night. Bill Veeck would be rolling in his grave.
Do what Houston does in the summer – kids free with paying adults in certain sections of the stadium. You know attendance will suck in the first two months, it always has. The team is creative with their promotions in the summer but early in the season needs to improve.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Dollar dogs on Monday was always a nice way to get rid of the weekend inventory
Day games over the summer are filled with campers so that helps, but April and May day games are a disaster.
For those games, you do a $5 bottomless cup of soda, or you close off the 300 level and encourage fans to sit in the 100 level seats because there are people that rarely get that opportunity.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like this should be a part of whatever we do this offseason about attendance.
PoW already said he’s thinking of putting a piece like this together.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Good, he's got some good common sense ideas i'd like to see commented on
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I somewhat disagree with this.
Without knowing the exact numbers, weren’t TV ratings absolutely through the roof in 2010? There had to be some expectation of them falling.
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well I agree there had to be some expectation of the ratings coming back to earth.
The problem is, everybody was holding them up as proof that Tampa Bay loves the Rays, but just can’t afford to go to the games. Well, it seems they don’t love the Rays nearly as much as they proclaimed last year.
Is that just compared to last year? Seems awfully silly to compare the numbers, particularly TV, to what were historic highs last year
I bet TV was up compared to the last 3 years and gate was down less than 17% over that same time frame.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
F'n A
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Chick's dig the long ball, and so do fans
Seats will fill up, go out and spend on a A+ talented power hitter.
Pay Pujols or Fielder and the fans will come. They just need some excitement. Sure, the Rays are winners, but the way they win is unappealing to the common fan.
Fans want to see somebody that is going to “wow” them. Longoria is a guy capable of that, but we need a true clean up hitter, a star at that spot in the order.
Fans will def come out to see the Rays play if you add a “HOF” time stick in FA. The Rangers added some guy that hit 3 homers to knock you out of the playoff, and they traded for Josh Hamilton (premier hitter somewhat worth price of admission).
Try signing Pujols or Fielder. We need a 1-2 punch, and this lineup needs a beast of a bat.
Nice try with Manny.
Dear Stu,
You do a great job with the Rays.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 5, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The Rays were 10th him homers this year in MLB, 12th last year, 6th in 2009, and 10th in 2008. One of those years they didn't make the playoffs
The Rays will not be purchasing Pujols or Fielder
The Rays will not be signing any free agent over 10M a year
The Rays will not be signing any free agent over 10M a year
The Rays will not be purchasing Pujols or Fielder
I don’t think you understand how this organization is run and that’s probably the biggest reason that attendance is down. The casual fan like yourself has no idea what separates this team from the pack and how they get by spending less money than virtually any other team. I, for one, appreciate the razor thin margins that they’re working with and the gambles that they have to take that don’t always work out. If you want to root for a franchise that patches holes by signing big name free agents go back to rooting for the Sox or Yankees. The Rays don’t need your kind.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
been around since the inception of the Rays
I understand, and appreciate everything the Rays are doing in the AL East on a 40 million dollar payroll. I am very passionate about baseball and am an avid Rays fan. I was at the stadium for Wade Boggs 3,00th hit, ironically a HR.
I understand we are operating on a small budget, and dollar for dollar this is by leaps and bounds the best franchise in MLB.
“If you want to root for a franchise that patches holes by signing big name free agents go back to rooting for the Sox or Yankees. The Rays don’t need your kind.”
- Ouch, I am a proud Ray fan and I love the way we play. IMO, I just believe that the addition of an offensive juggernaut would increase the ticket sales.
You get what you pay for. Did Stu buy this team with the intentions of winning a WS? or winning a profit?
Spend more on the team, and Fans will show up.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 5, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
He has spent more on the team in the past, but without consistent demand for the product then it's very difficult to agree to a deal where you hope to get more value up front than you're going to lose on the backend
And no, the Rays won’t be doubling payroll by signing one player. They just made the playoffs. The process isn’t broken. We just need to continue to make marginal upgrades where we can while trading a strength (pitching) to shore up a weakness (hitting). As long as the team can continue to churn out quality MLB pitching then they’ll be able to add pieces where it matters. To paraphrase Friedman or Sternberg, “If we ever have to go get pitching on the free agent market than we’re screwed.”
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
IMO, I just believe that the addition of an offensive juggernaut would increase the ticket sales.
Hit show!
I agree with this (mostly).
Baseball is a sport (for those who are playing), but it is entertainment for those who are watching. I’m not advocating “The Hit Show” at the expense of everything else, but keeping the team mainly as is, with the addition of an offensive juggernaut, and a few swaps in the pen, and suddenly, you have a good team AND an entertaining team. Home runs are exciting. Winning is exciting. Having an owner tell all fans before a season that “this is a rebuilding year” and “we’re back to basics” is not exciting. True “sports” fans still watched and kept up with them (see:DRaysBay) but a lot of casual fans got lost in the process (until the last month).
Again.
There is a difference between sports fans and casual fans. I am a sports fan. I love to watch the game. I don’t need to see HR after HR after HR in order to keep my attention on the team. The fact is, there are a lot of casual fans who do.
I know that with the current ownership and management, there will be no acquisitions of offensive juggernauts. My statement was basically to call attention to the fact that the ownership can malign the fan base for not showing up and spending $$$ on the team, but it’s outright insulting to hear them make that argument after this year (when they maintained all along it was a rebuilding year and they were spending less $$$ on the team, etc. etc. etc.) and the only way we even made it in as a WC was some good September play and the most epic collapse in baseball history.
Look BIUN.....you can call for the Rays to get Pujols and Fielder all you want, but it is NEVER going to happen.
If the fans of this area need out FO to sign ludicrous contracts in order to show up for games, then they don’t deserve to keep this team. We win every year. That should be enough. Teams in other cities, that actually have fans that come to games, would KILL to have our FO and farm system. And, maybe if fans would start showing up, then we wouldn’t be looking at trading players like Shields and Upton or dealing with the reality that when these young guys (Price, Longo, Moore) mature, they will be gone.
As for why Stu bought the team, of course he wants to win, but people don’t buy baseball teams to win championships….they do it TO MAKE MONEY!!! EVERY OWNER OF EVERY TEAM IN EVERY SPORT BOUGHT THEIR TEAM SO THEY COULD MAKE MONEY!!! But, if he isn’t making the profit he wants, or isn’t making as much profit as other MLB teams even, then it is his right as the owner to keep the payroll as low as he wants.
Agreed 110%
On the flip side fans are not going to “buy” into the eperience of going to the ball park. They want to take the family, have a brew, and watch some elite home run power in action.
If Stu wants to sell more tickets, then we need more starpower. It is sad, but true.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Oct 5, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
2009 and 2010 really disagree with you.
Whether you like it or not, Burrell and Soriano were expensive and well known names, at least by those who follow any baseball.
Tell the Giants fans this.....
I am getting pretty sick and tired of this. Read this: "Founded in 2005, DRaysBay is home to, “Progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument.” "
Being at Game 162 was the most incredible sports event I've been to live
This is a season I’ll never forget. September, Shields’ complete games, Jennings’ hot start, Fuld’s magic, Moore’s debut, Andino and many more. Losing in the ALDS is disappointing but this season didn’t need a ring of any sort to make it unforgettable. Looking forward to 2012 but I’ll look back on 2011 with a smile.
by sattp on Oct 4, 2011 11:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Today Attendance was awful
Today’s #Rays-Rangers attendance: 28,299, which is not a sellout
and Stuart Sternberg’s interview
“I am frustrated this year,” Sternberg said of losing to the Rangers for the second consecutive year. “We’ve replicated last year [on the field] and our attendance numbers were down 15 percent and our ratings were down. The rubber has got to meet the road at some point here. When you go through the season, you control your own destiny, if you win out. We’re getting to the point where we don’t control our own destiny. This is untenable as a model going forward.”
The game was at 2 on a Tuesday
Honestly, what do you expect? Yes, it’s the playoffs, but most working people in the Bay area probably considered themselves lucky to be able to catch the game on the radio, let alone actually get to the game.
by JGator45 on Oct 5, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not entirely sure this would happen anywhere else
Maybe Miami?
I don’t know. I hate the way it’s shaping up though.
@dobbertweets
#FreeSandy
No one should be pissed about what Sternberg said about attendance
It is his business and he is absolutely correct.
Anyone making the economy excuse should look at Detroit, they have hard it worse for longer
Another DRB guy on Twitter, @jeffjohn1979
Nobody needs to hear a man worth hundreds of millions of dollars cry because his baseball team isn't making a large enough profit.
Add in the fact he’s demanding a taxpayer subsidy…
i support casual racism
by Boddington on Sep 19, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I literally wish I had killed myself on the train station after I got laid off
by Sean O on Sep 28, 2011 7:49 PM PDT
I want a goddamned criminal investigation.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 7:48 PM PDT
by internet commenter on Oct 5, 2011 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he's demanding anything of the sort?
When they first put out the proposal for a new stadium, I believe the idea was they were going to find alternative funding (either themselves or investors or whatnot) for a large portion of it.
And anyway, last night’s comments didn’t touch on the stadium per se. Just the attendance.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Woof
i support casual racism
by Boddington on Sep 19, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I literally wish I had killed myself on the train station after I got laid off
by Sean O on Sep 28, 2011 7:49 PM PDT
I want a goddamned criminal investigation.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 7:48 PM PDT
by internet commenter on Oct 5, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't differ than any other business owner that comes to the area
Look at all of the tax breaks the state government is more than willing to hand over to businesses that toy with the idea of coming to Florida.
It’s a symbiotic relationship and while I think ownership needs to bear the brunt of any stadium costs in any market, they should not have to shoulder all of it.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Different "Fan" Base...
How many supposed baseball fans in Detroit root for the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Cubs, et al? How many people move to Detroit and seem to like their weather, tax structure and lifestyle fine enough but refuse to root for the local baseball team. Detroit and Tampa are not comparable. No place and Tampa (or Miami and possibly Arizona) is comparable. My 2 sons go to Middle School and kid after kid after kid roots for the Yankees because their DB father does. My youngest son plays baseball. Half the freaking kids on the team come to practice with Yankees hats on.
This is a very unique situation. I have many thoughts on this subject and I generally think the whole attendance argument is specious at best but this is the thought for the morning.
and thanks, Rays. Seriously. Thank you for the true magic of sport, for me and my family.
Could you have your kid just beat up other kids with Yankee hats on?
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
My kid's travel ball team beat up on a 9u team called the "Trinity Yankees" this past weekend
The coaches were a bunch of loud mouthed New Yorkers. We would have won 18-0 but my kid misplayed a ground ball and they scored 2. /facepalm
If you want to keep guns out of the hands of thugs, just attach job applications to them
Doing that today
If you want to keep guns out of the hands of thugs, just attach job applications to them
Arizona fan here
and yes, we have that issue with our sports teams. When the Dbacks would play the Cubs it would be 50-50, when the Cardinals played the Cowboys it would be 60-40 for the Cowboys. When did this change? After the Dbacks won the world series and after the Cardinals made it to the Superbowl. That, and time. Each generation of Arizonans born here are one more away from their transplanted state.
yes but
F-bombs outside the GDT are a bannable offense
consider this a warning
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Oct 4, 2011 8:54 AM EDT
dang it
“After the Dbacks won the world series”
F-bombs outside the GDT are a bannable offense
consider this a warning
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Oct 4, 2011 8:54 AM EDT
another factor...
is the demographics and fanbase in the proximity near the stadium. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Tampa’s stadium in a largely poor African American area. Blacks don’t largely support or follow baseball anymore. Diamondback stadium on the otherhand is in a largely poor Hispanic area. Hispanics largely love baseball.
I bet 50% of those that sit in the “cheap” seats here in AZ are lower income Hispanics that love the game.
How dare you!
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
lol
hey, it needed to be at least said. if the generalization is the stadium doesn’t get support from its immediate area and its fan base has to travel some distance then it needs to be mentioned.
The Phx metropolitan area is very spread out and the stadium is downtown in a pretty low enconomic area, but that area stills represents the dbacks fairly well
Pretty much.
I think any one of us would be frustrated if we were in his shoes.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He's speaking to the forest, not the trees
People need to stop acting as if he’s speaking to them and realize he’s speaking to the situation.
People are using this as another excuse to not want to fully support the team. He’s a business owner – he’s allowed to react when he sees the product on the field perform and the product in the stands and television go down. The timing of the message should not deflect from the message because what he is saying absolutely has to be said because it is the truth.
4 straight winning seasons and support is trending downwards. I can see why he didn’t bite his lip and tell Shelton and the pool “no comment.”
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions
by year
2009 – 1,874,962
2010 – 1,864,999
2011 – 1,529,188
3 straight years it has gone down despite the unemployment rate also declining over that period.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Whether or not you want to admit this, the team was in 3rd place and the offseason looked like a fire sale.
And unemployment rate is a retarded statistic. If the rate goes down, all it means is that people have stopped looking for work, which could be due to a multitude of factors. If you respond to the question with “Yes, I am looking for work”, then you are counted in the equation. This could be spouses looking for part time jobs, ffs.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
I prefer underemployment over unemployment
either numbers are dumbest
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I was one of the first people telling everyone to stop pretending this was a playoff team here
I’m more bothered by bad tv ratings than I am turnstiles because that’s going to affect potential advertisers. Since corporate sponsorship is down, the ad dollars are everything and no business will want to buy ad time for a time slot with ratings down nearly 40%
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps next year you won't proclaim the season over in June so that people on the fence about going might still have interest.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The unemployment rate is not a reliable statistic. It is measured by the number of people applying for benefits.
There are many people (especially in Florida) whose benefits have long since run out. Those people are not included in the statistic. Which is a whole other issue. Unemployment isn’t the biggest factor. Look instead at the median income over the last 5 years. While some people have found “work,” a part time job at McD’s or Wal-Mart may provide them just enough to get by, but no where near enough to be spending disposable income on baseball tickets.
I posted before about attendance percentages when compared to population. You can’t compare Tampa to Boston, NY, LA, etc….. Tampa has 19.4% of it’s population made up of residents over the age of 65. That’s a lot.
If they want to “move the team” moving it to a more central location (Tampa proper) instead of way out in BFE St. Pete, they might be able to get more of a draw from Lakeland and Orlando (especially weekend games).
Although Detroit does have a much different corporate structure
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 5, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
it always sucks losing the last game of the season
but this team did what nobody thought it could do all season and it was one hell of a ride. I would love to go back and read some of those “this team is not fun to watch articles” I know I was one of the guys hating on this team and who could see Desmond Jennings, Matt Moore, Evan Longoria, and BJ Upton leading this team into the playoffs. I can’t wait to get into the rosterbation season because there will be some huge decisions upcoming for Andrew Friedman and Co.
I think there is a difference between
complaining about attendance and commenting on it just as I think there is a difference between making excuses for attendance and and seeking to explain it.
Naturally, if Sternberg notes that attendance is poor, that it affects payroll, that other teams do better, that it is a frustrating situation et al, it can appear to be complaining. But if he is going to address the question at all, what do we expect him to say? That he is satisfied with it? That there are no consequences if it does not improve? That he is grateful that some fans do come to the games?
When has Sternberg failed the Rays? Did he not create an organization that brought winning baseball to a laughing stock team? Has he not been a good corporate citizen? Did he not raise payroll in a season the Rays thought they could win it all? Have his efforts to get a new stadium been built on threats rather than negotiation? Has he not refurbished Tropicana Field to make it and the staff more fan friendly?
But in the end, I doubt that he has made a career out of treading water or being stubborn about financial decisions that do not bring rewards. What he seems to be saying is not complaining but factual. Whatever the reasons, attendance is poor, is not improving and is impeding the ability of the team to compete. I won’t discount that he may have resources he refuses to commit, but to the extent that attendance drives investment, where is he wrong?
by bobr on Oct 5, 2011 8:14 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I think what those frustrated with the comments are saying is that - strictly at face value - Stu is being shortsighted when it comes to the business of baseball in TB.
Every market is different and poses its own challenge. In old baseball towns, winning is enough to draw. But that is very obviously not the case here. There are other barriers to entry that the Rays seem to ignore or just don’t care about. There may be reasons for that. I don’t know. But attendance in TB is not the black and white problem that Stu’s claiming it is. What aggravates me is comments like that and the dogpiling of guys like @BizballMaury who treat every market as equal. That’s fundamentally bad analysis.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
Maury was heavily involved in previous efforts for Portland adding a team
He’s done a ton of market analysis for different groups and is invited to the MLB Winter Meetings each year. He carries some validity..
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I am responding primarily to you and to internet commenter.
Internet commenter calls him petulant and says he is crying about losing money despite his millions and you indicate that by calling this a rebuilding year he helped create the poor attendance. I don’t think either comment is legitimate and was trying to counter them by noting that his comments were justified and should not be seen as petulance or even as casting blame but simply as descriptive.
I don’t think it helps matters to find excuses for poor attendance. A while back, Romano had a column that dealt with the issue properly in my view. Whatever the reasons, attendance is not good, and you can’t expect an owner simply to accept that. If the area, for whatever reasons, does not support the team, there are consequences. if as you say below, this market has specific challenges different from other areas, it may mean a team cannot thrive here. Sternberg may ultimately agree with you, and if he does, he will get out, and there is no point being angry about it. He is not shortsighted, because he is not accusing anyone. He is simply pointing out the realities.
If I decide to sell ski boots in Florida, there are some who may become attached to the product for any number of reasons. And I may keep upgrading their quality and varying their styles so that I get a following for them. But chances are, my business will fail, especially if it is competing with other footwear companies that appeal to a larger market. And I will move or sell or just get out.
Sternberg bought the team thinking he had a plan to make it successful, both on the field and at the box office. He has done a great deal to achieve that, but he may have been wrong. Perhaps the impediments in the area are too great to overcome. Unless people think he screwed up, at some point the reasons he was wrong are irrelevant, and there is no point rehashing them. Only the facts are relevant.
It may not thrive here, but to continue to beat the drum that "winning cures all" is obviously misguided. We've been talking about the same thing for four years, now.
I just don’t see the Rays combating the issues facing attendance. They are a business, not just a baseball team. They are a product and they have to sell that product. Stu knows this – or at least I thought he did – which is another reason why the statement is rankling.
And yes, the rebuilding year comment was perfectly legitimate. The team looked sunk by July and they lost three All-Stars in the offseason. What do you think the perception was among the fans who don’t read DRB?
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
Yes....and I think that's what we're saying, that this has gone beyond the point where winning will fix anything.
It’s an issue, and one that shouldn’t be ignored or brushed under the table. And even if you want to say the Rays could be doing more to improve stuff — I’d love to see your thoughts on all that whenever you get a chance to write stuff down — I don’t think marketing alone is enough to turn their current att. around to a sustainable level.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I need to be more clear. I don't think that an extra commercial is going to put 15k more butts in the seats.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
A couple things
First, when the organization loses as many “name” players as they did last offseason, then starts off 0-6, and the national media throws the team in the gutter, the casual fan is likely to be turned off.
As for things that they could do, as Jason mentioned above, tickets for kids should be basically free in the summer. This is being done in other markets, and it sure seems like an excellent way to attract young fans,which are the most important fans to a team trying to build a following.
Secondly, the parking fee went from free with a car of 4 or more a couple seasons ago to $15-20. That is a ridiculous price. Many cities around the country, much larger cities, don’t offer a “parking lot”, you find parking in the area. Often that parking costs $5 or less.
Dropping the walk up fee, that’s a must. having a 20% walk up fee on the cheapest tickets also makes a “hey let’s take the family to the game” last minute less palatable.
If tickets were $1 for kids with a paying adult, and parking was free for car of 4 or more, you are talking about a walk up cost plus parking of about $30 for a family of 4, as opposed to $80. That’s a huge difference just to get in. Don’t tell me you won’t make up at least half that difference in the stadium with concessions and/or merchandise.
Hahaha! $5 or less parking?
From all the places I’ve been, $20 is the minimum you expect to pay. It can get considerably higher if you’re going to NY or Bos.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Parking
These are just stadiums I went to this summer, and paid $5 or less, and walked less than 5 blocks to the stadium, not to mention the larger cities where I can take a subway or high speed train to the game for $5 or less:
Colorado
Minnesota
Cincinnati (free)
Houston
Texas
St. Louis
Atlanta was $10, Kansas City was $10, and the only giant parking lot setup like at the Trop.
I drive up from Ft. Myers to go to our games, and have used the $5 parking garage several times. Compared to the other cities I mentioned above, the parking garage/shuttle post game is a big pain with kids.
I’ve been to pretty much all of the parks, Seattle and Arizona excluded, and have not had to pay $20 to park. Yes, Boston or NY are probably more now, but I don’t think comparing the NY market or the Tampa market for pricing structures is fair.
Yeah, I guess it's mostly the north east that suck then.
NY is at least $30 (can get as high as $50), and Boston is similar. Baltimore is around $20, though you can take the light rail for cheaper.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but who drives to Yankee games? Take the train.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Not if you live in the 'burbs.
It’s a toss up in terms of cost/time at that point.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I've driven through NYC and I hope to never do it again
I don’t see it as a toss up though I have no idea where you live. If it’s an hour train ride or less then I’m taking the train and if it’s longer I’m still taking the train because I don’t want to deal with stop n go traffic ruining my car and crushing my MPG
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Driving in the city isn't that bad.
I love taking the train, it’s just a heck of a hassle from where I live….drive to the station, switch trains a few times, and a long trip both ways. And it’s more expensive than just driving (or at least, a toss up), so eh.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
As someone that has been to 24 of the current stadiums, parking here is a breeze
You can park off site within a 5 minute walk of The Trop for as little as $5. Parking at Miller Park — same kind of situation, was $20
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
For families
I disagree. If I was walking by myself, or with my wife or buddies, sure. If I’m carrying my little kids with me, it’s a pain, or it’s more expensive.
But that’s missing the point, my point is that the price for a family to go to a game at the Trop is much more than it was just two years ago, and more than it is in many places around the country.
The Rays are still one of the cheapest tickets in town
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/teamrankings/_/category/aff#table
Cheapest tickets, 9th in parking, 14th in concessions out of the 122 major sports franchises. The Bolts also checked in at 9th in parking and 14th in concessions, though their tickets are much more expensive coming in at 16th. Nobody bitches about the Forum. Complaining about the cost of going to a Rays game is pretty dumb if you care look at this with any sense of relativity. Heck take your kids to the movie theatre and you’re going to spend more money and parking is free for an hour less of entertainment. I’m sick of fans in the region making excuses. Get off your asses and go to 10 games a year. No excuses.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
They know the break-evens much better than any of us, there's a case to be made where more fans in the stadium equal less marginal revenue due to diminishing marginal returns
If it came down to 30,000 with 16% getting in free and nobody paying for parking or 20,000 where everyone paid to get in and park then you’re probably going to make more money on the lower, but paid attendance. It also allows lower costs as you don’t have to pay as many people to work, serve, or protect.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Why do you have to park at the stadium?
There are other areas around the stadium to park that do not cost as much, if you don’t mind walking. You compare off site parking at other stadiums, then complain about on site at the Trop. Everything I’ve seen continually shows the Rays are one of the least expensive tickets in MLB, yet you think they need to drop their price by over 50 percent to help increase attendance. What good is drawing the MLB average, if you are charging half their price? You will still be in a hole financially.
The tv rating have been solid, apparel sales are way up
The only place they haven’t had success is the turnstiles.
I think judging a fan base by attendance is similar to using batting average to judge how good a hitter is.
There are a bunch of other factors.
TB is like the .225 hitter who has a .360 OBP
and batting average doesn't?
Attendance is important, but there are many other factors that go into a good market. Everyone seems to only focus on attendance.
Batting average is unpaid attendance
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 5, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Several problems with this.
May need to create a funpost.
i support casual racism
by Boddington on Sep 19, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I literally wish I had killed myself on the train station after I got laid off
by Sean O on Sep 28, 2011 7:49 PM PDT
I want a goddamned criminal investigation.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 7:48 PM PDT
by internet commenter on Oct 5, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Love it Bob....yeah, this is how I feel as well.
His comments were pretty specific about the attendance being poor…he didn’t get off on tangents about the stadium or make any dramatic threats or anything. Simply stating the facts.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 5, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting that no one has brought up the Bucs who sold out only their
1st game since ’09 and it took a MNF game to do it
So much for the location, winning and Tampa is ‘Bucs town’
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
As someone who was at that game, I'm at a loss as to the Bucs' definition of sold out.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
Same can be said for Monday at the Trop, where 32K was a 'sellout'
Weird
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
But these aren't the facts. The only fact is that attendance is poor.
The curious thing, to me, which is going to be the impetus of whatever thing I do on attendance this winter, is that interest in the Rays is high. By whatever factor you want to give – the eye test of apparel worn around town, the amount of time local media spends on the team, TV ratings, etc – people care about the Rays, but its not translating into attendance.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
You are 100% correct
I’ve lived here since Nov ‘97 so i’ve witnessed the start to present saga. Nobody in those early (Namoili years) myself included even mentioned ‘Devil Rays’ baseball, unless to put it down
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Then why are TV ratings in the shitter?
Only thing I can figure is the MLB at bat app as I don’t know how that factors into ratings numbers but it also provides an avenue for the local fan to watch their “other” team while ignoring the local one.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Are they in the shitter compared to the league?
Satellite sports services are a major impediment to an area filled with transients. They have no reason to adopt a local team.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
Nobody has addressed the fact they were up over 70% from '09 to '10
and with all the off season happenings and the slow start, wouldn’t that be expected?
The real question is what were they in Aug and Sep?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Don't believe those final ratings are out
That said, attendance & tv ratings that heavily rely upon a team’s place in the standings is one of the issues at hand here. The Rays were in first place for a time in May and only a few games off the pace when that 37.5% ratings drop first hit the airwaves.
The fans in the state are like its climate – fairweather.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Oct 5, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Because you're comparing them to an outlier
Acting like last year is the TV ratings baseline is dishonest.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure about Tampa area (and if SunSports is a local channel there)...
but here in Jax, you have to buy at least the $60/month Comcast pkg to get SunSports, or a $65/month Directv pkg. Cable subscriptions are dropping here (lots of people going to absolute basic and watching tv online).
are you basing your statement on anything other than word of mouth?
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 5, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Improbable year. I wish I could say I shared the optimism some of you had in spring training
but I was pegging 85ish wins and probably 5-7 games out of the WC hunt. The stretch run was fantastic and continues to lend credence to how this team is built and run.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Although i loved the last few weeks
In general the season wasnt great. Sure the last few weeks almost made up for the shocking start and the streaky and mostly ineffective hitting. Half the season we thought it was dead and didnt bother enjoying it.
we had no right to get to the playoffs, but we did and we didnt make the most of it. After the amazing run into the playoffs we meekly went out of them with no fight.
disappointed.
Let's be real.
After a terrible start, we vaulted into first place on the back of one twitter meme, and then held onto it for awhile with the help of another, who was improbably threatening a batting title. One of our pitchers threw 12 (?) complete games. Another grew into the ace he was supposed to be all along. We saw not one, not two, but three future all-star quality rookies. We hung in the race long enough to make The Great Pumkin relevant, and we helped the Red Sox into possibly the greatest collapse of all time. And we made the playoffs for the third time in four years.
I don’t wish to be a fan in a world where this is a “in general not great” season. We aren’t the. Yankees, and that’s a good thing.
by Whelk on Oct 5, 2011 10:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wonder if cable subscriptions have dropped. I know several people making tough decisions at home due to the economy.
I also know that my neighbor switched to satellite TV and his carrier does not bring Sun Sports.
Yeah, I mentioned that above.
I’m not sure if the Rays are on local channels (or if SunSports is considered local) in Tampa, but here in Jax, you must buy at least a $60/month pkg to get SunSports. For people just barely making a rent/mortgage payment, that might be too much.
Didn't expect to be in the playoffs (although I had us at around 90 wins), but this loss stings big time
We had a better chance at winning the AL this time around than last year IMHO. This was a golden opportunity we let go. Even though I didn’t expect to get to this point, we actually go to this point, and it hurts a lot.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Now what to do:
Get rid of the hitting coach and shelf this offensive philosophy. The problem isn’t really with the talent of the players. The problem is with the philosophy in general. Some people will say coaches and philosophy doesn’t really matter, and I’d be a fool to say that there may be some truth in that. But if there is some truth in that, then what is the harm in making a change? A change from something that has no impact, to something else that has no impact…shouldn’t matter to you. So really it is an all upside move.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
The game:
Hellickson with the 3 homers :(
But at the end of the day, this was an offense problem again. Longo and Upton really hurt. Also I do think there was a serious roster construction issue in the bench. I know “they didn’t expect to be here”, but that is no excuse for creating such a crappy bench. We had a third catcher that we never used. And we had Elliot, who got to pinch run…but didn’t run in the most critical time of the year! I’m not saying we would have won any of these games if we had an extra bat to swap out Damon (as an example) for, but the fact that we basically had a couple guys on the roster that basically had no chance of participating…was mind boggling.
Matt Moore is a beast.
Too bad we decided to use Wade Davis in Game 4, rather than Game 3.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Attendance:
It sucks. What more is there to say? There are a million reasons why. A many of those reasons exist in nearly every market. At the end of the day, the people in Tampa Bay do not prioritize their 3 major sports franchises near the top of their entertainment list, in terms of spending money. We can go down the list on why: location (for the Rays), cost (mainly Bucs), transplants (Rays, Bucs, Bolts), niche sport (Bolts), other things to do (Rays, Bucs, Bolts)…..At the end of the day not enough people care enough about it to spend the limited money they have on these teams. We have fans, but those fans are limited, and they don’t have the cash to spend it on 3 teams. The Rays having two straight day games is a killer. The Rays only have so many fans. Out of that group, only so many of them are employed with jobs. So you are essentially asking the same basket of fans to get out of work two straight days to go to two games. It just isn’t feasible.
The real solutions: Time to build a bigger fan base, or relocation of one of the teams (which will cause fans to reallocate cash to one of the other teams).
Bandaids: better location, reducing prices, better fan experiences, winning, etc.
I’m all for the bandaids, as I’d rather have three franchises that tread water that an occassionally catch lightning in the bottle…rather than two thriving franchises.
At the end of the day, it isn’t that Tampa is a football town (more people wear Rays gear for example), it is that it isn’t a sports town that can support three major teams in a weak economy.
(IF the Rays were doing good when the economy was strong, the attendance would be a heck of a lot higher…the numbers are just not very sticky…just like with the Bucs).
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
PoW-
Do you at all look at the back-to-back 3+ million attendance numbers in Milwaukee wonder why that can’t happen here? They were not a great team last year and still had over 3 million tickets sold.
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 5, 2011 9:54 AM EDT reply actions
What else is there to do in Milwaukee?
Florida: Boating, Beach, Strip clubs……
If you want to keep guns out of the hands of thugs, just attach job applications to them
I think there are very specific reasons for this
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
by PlayOnWords on Oct 5, 2011 10:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think there are very specific reasons for this
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
by PlayOnWords on Oct 5, 2011 10:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Do tell...
where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you
by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 5, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I will tonight
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
by PlayOnWords on Oct 5, 2011 11:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I looked forward to this season for a number of reasons:
-To see what SHields would do. That was a great season.
-To see how the youngsters would do (Jennings/Hellickson specifically). Good job guys.
-To see how the prospects would do. Good year withMoore/HJL breaking out, and Beckham/Guyer coming around.
Really enjoyed this season even if it was frustrating at times. No idea what I’ll do with my nights now. Guess it’s back to sniffing glue.
Can we really call HJL's season a breakout? Knowing that he can't hit at AA (yet?) doesn't leave us much further than where we were coming in.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd say right now our system is in worse shape than last year
Next year will be big will all the 2011 draftees, but 2011 had Archer and Colome stagnating at best, Sale and O’Conner disappointing, and of course we lose Jennings/Hellickson. Moore’s breakout was nice, Beckham didn’t really up his ceiling, Romero had a nice year but walked too many.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
But the main guys stayed healthy for the most part. I hope to chalk it up to a bad year. Maintain relativity to the rest of the league not the standards we've established because it's going to be a long time before we see this much volume of high
quality players during such a short window.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, we're still a top-10 system
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
Washington is crazy talented with Rendon, Harper, Cole, Norris. Toronto arguably got more talent than us from the draft, plus d’Arnaud, Gose. They lack a Moore-type elite guy so maybe we’re ahead. I’d have to look more closely.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta has a ton of pitching talent but lacks a bat like us
St Louis has Miller/Martinez. I dunno. It’s close.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
"We're still a top-10 system"
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
FWIW I haven't given this a ton of thought
I’d have to sit down at look at how other systems are.
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
lets look at the opening day system
remember we could be trading off as much as Shields, Niemann, and Upton. Most likely we just trade Niemann and maybe Brignac, but even Niemann should bring some good depth to the system.
I think Niemann's injury history will scare teams away from giving a lot for him.
Though maybe we could snag a guy like LoMo from the Marlins since they seem to hate him anyways.
Best SP prospect in baseball, and another top 10-15 prospect.
Guerrerri is probs top 100 as well as Archer. Mahtook may be top 100. Bex could see himself back in some top 100 lists. Think you’re getting spoiled by riches.
That's awfully optimistic IMO
Not sure what the rate on guys drafted in Mahtook’s position making the top 100 without pro data but it can’t be great.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Even then, I really doubt it
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
By hitting crappy pitching?
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
His slash-line on the year: .292/.365/.416/.781
Pretty impressive from a young SS who can really flash the leather and run the bases.
Who is this about?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, HJL. I'm not negative on him at all.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, but what did he do after taking the leap?
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the spring chicken pox may have factored in to him fatiguing down the stretch
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think an inability to hit advanced pitching may have factored in to him fatiguing down the stretch
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Can't argue with that evidence
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
My evidence for fatigue: Scouts who saw him in the FSL basically said "this guy can hit"
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
We could just agree that he's probably not as good as he was in the FSL
And not as bad as he was in the SL. His BABIP dove from .380 to .228 upon promotion. It was .397 and .341 in 2009 and 2010. It’s not a magic bullet but calling it an “inability” seems wrong
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Duda is far from a slap hitter, thanks though
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I want no part in it. This user takes things way too personally.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The guys numbers were inflated at A+ due to BABIP and poor fielders allowing triples instead of doubles.
He’s not Jose Reyes. He’s more like Alcides Escobar. That’s nice and it plays at the ML level, for certain, but he won’t probably turn into a league average or better hitter.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
So a .228 BABIP is his true talent, got it
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Elevate that to .300 and what's his seasonal line?
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Why .300 when his career mark is .357?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's the list of guys that have a career .357 or higher BABIP from 1990-2011
Austin Jackson (.369)
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=1990&ind=0
Holy cow, John Kruk had a .347 BABIP over this time period over nearly 2900 PAs
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
We're not talking MLB BABIPs
Probably close to all decent hitters had big milb BABIPs, I’d bet
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
This shows how little you know.
Alcides wasn’t a good hitter. He never walked, and he never hit for any power. Here’s a comparison of their numbers through their age 21 seasons (they followed almost the exact same development path with both playing half a season at A+ and half at AA in their age 20 season):
Esco: .280/.311/.348, 4.4/15 BB/K%, .068 Iso
HJL: .296/.368/.392, 9.3/16.2 BB/K%, .096 Iso
HJL is a much, much better hitter at this point in his progression.
Those numbers mean exactly dick when we're talking about if they'll hit or not.
I didn’t see too many scouts fawning over HJL’s bat upon promotion.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're ignoring what he did in Charlotte and also ignoring any physical projection on a guy who's 6-2/170
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not ignoring it, but I put more credence in the numbers at higher levels.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
In 24 games
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If a guy looks utterly lost and is only producing weak contact then yes I'd say 24 games is enough from a scouting standpoint to see that a guy isn't hacking it
I hope that it’s a fatigue issue coupled with bad luck and that he has a similar year in AA that he had at A+, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
None, but I'm not a professional scout
I can tell you that that 0 number is the exact number of glowing reports that real scouts filed upon his time in AA.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Link some positive ones from after his promotion, heck, find someone that likes his mechanics before that
Most see him as a slappy hitter that leverages his speed quite well.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
A sampling:
Sickles, pre-season:
10) Hak-Ju Lee, SS, Grade B: Love the glove, and I think the bat has more potential than people think. That is a minority opinion but I will stick with it for now.
Sickles, pre AS game:
Hak-Ju Lee, SS, Tama Bay Rays: Signed out of Korea by the Chicago Cubs in 2008, traded to the Rays in the Matt Garza deal. Hitting .333/.399/.465 for High-A Charlotte with 20 steals, 28 walks, 49 strikeouts in 282 at-bats. Very smooth defensive player, has gap power and good speed, should continue to hit for average. Age 20.
Major League ETA: 2013.
6/23 minor league report
**Tampa Bay Rays shortstop prospect Hak-Ju Lee continues his strong campaign for High-A Charlotte in the Florida State League, hitting .304 in his last 10 games and posting a .339/.412/.468 line overall, with 26 walks and 41 strikeouts in 233 at-bats. He’s also stolen 20 bases in 28 attempts. Although he hasn’t maintained the power surge he showed in April (he slugged .686 that month), he continues lashing liners to all fields and is generally impressing everyone who sees him.
Charlotte sources indicate that Lee’s swing is working well, and his speed/gap power approach is perfectly tailored for the roomy, spacious parks in the Florida State League. His season is particularly pleasing when one considers that he missed the first two weeks with chickenpox, which is a nasty, strength-sapping bug for anyone past childhood. Lee continues to impress defensively, showing excellent range and lowering his error rate compared to last year.
BA, 10/3/11:
Righthander Chris Archer was the headliner among the five prospects the Rays received in the offseason deal that sent Matt Garza to the Cubs, but Lee may end up being the biggest prize. Managers have rated Lee the best defensive shortstop in his league two years running, and he has every asset to be a major league shortstop.
Charlotte manager Jim Morrison quipped that Lee rarely has to make backhanded plays because of how fast he gets to everything. He makes good reads on balls and is a well above-average runner with excellent range. He has a strong and accurate arm, with fast hands and a quick release as well, though he can play out of control at times.
Lee slapped balls the other way early in the season, but turned on pitches as the season progressed and finished third in the FSL batting race at .318. While he has a line-drive approach that won’t produce big home run numbers, he has the bat and foot speed to compile plenty of doubles and triples. He’s an adept bunter who needs to get better at reading pitchers to become a more efficient basestealer.
BA chat, 10/3:
Norman (San Jose): how close were the top 6? offensively, how do you see Lee evolving? high OBP, 30-40 steals guy?
Jim Shonerd: Miller and Harvey were the clear top two, the rest were fairly interchangeable. I don’t think that’s unreasonable for Lee, and he’ll mix in plenty of doubles and triples.
BA, Preseason:
Scouting Report: A potential leadoff hitter, Lee controls the strike zone and has plus-plus speed. He has the bat speed and strength in his hands to hit for some power once he develops his upper body, though he can get overly aggressive and spin off some balls. Managers rated Lee the best defensive shortstop in the low Class A Midwest League in 2010. He has quick reactions, good range to both sides and a strong arm, though he needs to improve his reads and his focus after making 34 errors in 118 games last year. He also has to break a habit of flipping throws to first base. He picked up English quickly, helping him soak up instruction.
So he has gap power and very good zone recognition.
Jason Parks
Hak-Ju Lee (Rays)
TCF: Lee is one of my favorite prospects in the game, and a player with the potential to be Leader of the Pack (Future) in this crazy deep talent pool. At the plate, the 20-year-old Korean has great hands and hand-eye coordination, which leads to heavy doses of contact. The power isn’t there, and it might not show up, but he can sting a ball; he’s not an empty hitter. I like his overall approach: It’s aggressive yet under control, giving him some on-base ability and high-batting average projections. The glove is flashy and slick, though he still needs refinement, which he will find through repetition; the actions for a plus defender are already present. The arm is plenty strong for the position and his quick feet, natural instincts, and plus-plus raw speed given him excellent range. The total package could be an All-Star with a plus glove, the ability to hit for a very high average (not empty average), and enough strength to work the gaps. He’s not going to hit 15-plus home runs per season, but you can’t put him in the speed/slasher box, either.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The last 3 months and even those that were in love at A+ didn't mention swing mechanics just speed and numbers.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Where did I say that? Please don't put words in my mouth, or anything else for that matter.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
look up, dumbass:
The guys numbers were inflated at A+ due to BABIP and poor fielders allowing triples instead of doubles.
He’s not Jose Reyes. He’s more like Alcides Escobar. That’s nice and it plays at the ML level, for certain, but he won’t probably turn into a league average or better hitter.
and there goes our season
OTM’s biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok and where did I mention zone recognition?
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I really am glad you are taking this stanc, though, because it all but insures his success.
Anytime we go head to head, you come out looking like an idiot. Great news!
Keep insulting me, it shows that you really have the upper hand here.
Good job finding a comment where I said he had bad zone recognition. I haven’t seen him play and those numbers aren’t tracked publicly so I wouldn’t have said it.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
I said he was like Escobar in that he's going to rely on his speed
Probably not all that different from Andrus. We’re talking skillsets as far as putting the ball in play. All three are dangerous once they get on, but none will consistently get on base at say a .350 clip outside of the occasional season-long good BABIP outlier that tends to happen.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
The ability to get on-base is a huge part of that skillset.
If you had said Andrus, who walks at a better clip and gets himself in better hitter’s counts, I wouldn’t have taken issue.
I think upside is Andrus with Escobar being more around the 50%
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
I disagree
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
And please refrain from calling me a "dumbass" attack my argument all you want, but for a masthead writer to insult me like this I have to say I'm pretty offended
Leave the name calling out of it, if you can manage.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm a child for wanting to have a civil conversation and not be berated with insults
Yup.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Your mother would take it like a man
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
yet he crushed the FSL, no?
by Ryan Gilliss on Oct 5, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Not advanced pitching, guys mostly throwing fastballs
It’s good to know that he can rake a fastball, but pitchers throw bendy stuff, and quite well the higher up the ladder you get.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
hmm...
I was always under the impression that for the most part the FSL was a “pitcher’s league”
Park factors say so, yes. The pitchers are still young men that have barely started their development.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 6, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Some never hit a pitch with a wrinkle, absolutely
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
you would think that would be exposed by the time they get to what is essentially the middle of the minor leagues
If the glove plays, and it most likely does with HJL then it might not matter
I just think that he hit a wall due to an inability to hit a curve more than being tired from having chicken pox 4 months prior. Both are guesses.
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
I think that people knocking HJL is a bit unneccesary, I think he is what we thought he was when we got him
a B+ prospect probably around 50 overall that is very very good with the glove and will hit enough to be an everyday major leaguer. people overreacted when he tore up A+ when he started his season and people are overreacting to a 20 year old getting his first taste of AA. If he hits <.200 all season next year than we should start worrying but I seriously doubt that will happen.
Haha
and there goes our season
OTM's biggest Clutch Carl fan.
by gizmosandy on Sep 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 5, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Beckham
Ben Badler: What’s the breakout? A .339 OBP, slugging under .400 and a big dip in his contact rate in Triple-A? I just don’t see it, and I’m not alone there. He’s athletic, he has good bat speed, strong arm, supposedly a strong work ethic, but I don’t see anything that jumps out from a performance or a tools standpoint. He’s not a plus hitter, he’s not a high on-base guy, he doesn’t have plus power and the defense certainly isn’t plus. He’ll play in the major leagues, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t see enough evidence to believe in him as an everyday big leaguer.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Oct 5, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Great season, Rays!
I’m a Jays fan who doesn’t often pay attention to other teams, at least until it’s been established that they won’t be seeing the postseason again. It was very entertaining following the Rays this last month. It also kind of scares the crap out of me because it reminds me that the AL East is far from just the Yankees and the Red Sox. Think we could combine forces sometime and terrorize the rest of the division? You could call them the Rays, or you could call them the Jays, or… well, maybe not.
Here’s to a great 2012 for both of our teams!
The man in the white shirt.
I was wrong.
I never thought, for even one second, I’d be happy to have SandyKaz back. But.. I forgot how much fun it is to watch him get obliterated in an argument. Well one.
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