Who else would start the rosterbation?
by joeybw on Nov 1, 2011 1:41 PM EDT
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PrintLineup
LF Desmond Jennings
CF B.J Upton
3B Evan Longoria
1B Carlos Pena
2B Ben Zobrist
RF Matt Joyce
DH Jason Kubel
SS Sean Rodriguez
C Robinson Chirinos/John Jaso....ouch defense
Bench
C Chirinos/Jaso, Sam Fuld, Reid Brignac, Brandon Guyer
Considering Pena loved Tampa and Kubel spent most of 2011 hurt, I have their prices down but also consider Boras when thinking of Pena...
I don't want to trade Upton because with our rotation, I think the addition of Pena and Kubel along with Upton's pop gives us a real chance
SP 1 James Shields
SP 2 David Price
SP 3 Jeremy Hellickson
SP 4 Matt Moore
SP 5 Wade Davis
I really want this rotation so I'm just going to ignore Neimann for now and have Cobb in AAA
Bullpen
Kyle Farnsworth
Joel Peralta
Jake McGee
Brandon Gomes
Alex Torres
Cesar Ramos
Jeff Neimann (yeah, I remembered him, I want his best stuff for 1 or 2 innings, no more starts)
I didn't add any relievers because I think all the money goes to our offense but the bullpen suddenly looks strong to me. The 3 lefties but they are all different. Ramos should just be a loogy, Torres is a long man and McGee can put out fires. Farns, Peralta and Gomes should all be awesome again and since the 2009 ST, I have liked Neimann for the pen.
There might be a bit too much hope in my predictions but that's all they are, predictions. Amyone else want to put together our 2012 team?
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
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Reader Beware: The following post may be slightly crazy.
Stu Sternburg announces the Rays are going for it in 2012.
Moves:
1. Matt Moore signs a 6-year extension worth $36MM (3 team options for $12MM, $14MM, 16MM)
2. Johnny Damon coming back as the DH on a 1 year $3.5MM deal.
3. Blockbuster Trade is announced on Christmas Day. Rays trade James Shield and Jeff Niemann to the Reds for Joey Votto. The Reds agree to send $5MM in 2013 and the Rays send $5MM in 2014.
Hype and optis built throughout the region and the team has strong attendance breaking the 2,000,000 mark.
Lineup
LF- Desmond Jennings
CF- B.J. Upton
1B- Joey Votto
3B- Evan Longoria
RF- Matt Joyce
2B- Ben Zobrist
DH- Johnny Damon
SS- Sean Rodriguez
c- Jose Lobaton/Robinson Chirinos
Bench
C- Jose Lobaton/Robinson Chirinos
SS- Reid Brignac
1B/DH- Russ Canzler
OF- Brandon Guyer
Starters
David Price
Jeremy Hellickson
Wade Davis
Matt Moore
Alex Cobb/Alex Torres
Bullpen
Kyle Farnsworth
Joel Peralta
Jake McGee
Brandon Gomes
Cesar Ramos
Dane de la Rosa
Matt Bush
The payroll for the team sits around $48-50MM. Be free to criticize as you see fit. I’ll make a more realistic scenario later but that isn’t quite as fun.
It would be awesome to get Votto,
but I doubt his addition would bring that much more fans in to tell the truth. For whatever reasons the team just cant bring in fans right now, hopefully that changes. But enough attendance talk.
One complaint I could see about this, is the bullpen. DDLR and Bush are unproven, and I def want Bush to see more AAA, and DDLR wasnt that good in AAA or the ML in my opinion, though both have very good ceilings, I just think they need a little more AAA time unless they have a great spring. Also Ramos wasnt that good this year and there is probly some better LOOGY options out there whether by market or in house. And another big thing to see is can Mcgee improve next year and become at least a quality reliever? If it was me, like I said I would start at least 2 of Bush, DDLR, and Ramos in AAA, unless they have great springs, and sign a few veterans/projects that have had past success in the ML(Wuertz, Zumaya, Broxton).
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Nov 1, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as the pen goes, I can trust Ramos if he gets the Choate treatment, no righties for him
Of course the FO is in love with JP so you can’t count him out.
Zumaya is always, always hurt and Broxton has been awful and/or hurt for what 3 years now? I wouldn’t mind Wuertz at all.
Under construction
Man, Joey Votto, I don't think 1B would be a problem anymore
However, even if one of them is Neimann, I hate trading 2 starters in one trade especially consider one is Shields. If we deal Shields we need to get at least 2 out of the 1B/SS/C needs
Under construction
Yes, realistic that would be the case.
This would be the 2012 looks like our time and a way to just make a big splash offensively. Even if we deal Shields outside of the Reds nobody matches that could fill our 1B and C positions. Our SS situation is fine with SRod/Brignac as a stop gap until Beckham and Lee are ready so I don’t see it being filled through a trade.
Actually the Nationals could also fill our needs,, and possibly for cheaper.
They have, of course, Derek Norris, who should be at AA next year, and should be a good catcher going forward, but is blocked by Ramos, and Tyler Moore, a 1b with serious power who should start at AAA next year, and possibly be major-league ready by mid-year, and is blocked by LaRoche, Morse, and Marrero. Potentially, they could be had for, say Jeff Niemann and a spec, or BJ Upton.
Yes for Niemann or Upton if they get traded something like that could make sense.
The whole idea is if they are going to trade Shields instead it should be for immediate help at multtiple spots.
This would be nice, but prob not fully realistic
C: Geovany Soto (for Wade Davis)
1B: Logan Morrison (for B.J Upton & ’spect)
2B: Ben Zobrist
SS: Rafael Furcal
3B: Evan Longoria
LF: David DeJesus
CF: Desmond Jennings
RF: Matt Joyce
DH: Jason Kubel
SP: Shields, Price, Hellickson, Niemann, Cobb (Moore after S2 time ends)
RP: Farnsworth, Peralta, Gomes, Michael Wuertz, McGee, De La Rosa, Ramos
Lineup:
CF Jennings
LF DeJesus (1 year, 3.5)
3B Longoria
DH Thome (1 year, 2)
2B Zobrist
1B Morrison
RF Joyce
C Soto (arb proj 4)
SS Furcal (1 year, 5)
Total Salary – 55-60 mil
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 2, 2011 10:12 AM EDT reply actions
I really would love to have a 60MM budget.
Would leave room for lots of possibilities.
and the DH at the top should say Thome, not Kubel
Like I said, wishful thinking, for sure. But that would be a solid 1-9 lineup.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 2, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
oh man I would love to see BOSS and STANTON roaming the OF together
/ bulling wotwives on the weekend
Here is my go at it
First base: Unless we get blown away with an offer for Shields, I say we get the best option we can get for Davis or Niemann. Best case scenerio would be Morrison for Davis plus spects. Otherwise, either Duda or Davis from the Mets would be nice.
DH: I really feed like this needs to be a right handed hitter to balance the line up. My two favorite options would be Quentin or Encarnacion. I dont think it would take much to get either.
Catcher: I think they need a veteran catcher to couple with a young guy like Lobaton or Chirinos. Ianetta would be ideal, as he has good pop and plays great defense. Another option would be Soto or possibly roll the dice on Synder. Further, I think it would make sense to make a run at either Grandal or Norris, as both are blocked.
Shortstop: Im content holding down the fort for another year with Rodriguez and Brignac until Lee or Beckham knocks down the door. I think Rodriguez is a lot better offensively than he showed last year.
Relievers: There are a lot of guys that peak my interest including Zumaya, Broxton, Wuertz, Gonzalez, and Neshek. One guys I think could really turn his career around as a reliever is Padilla.
Moves:
Trade Davis plus spects for Morrison
Trade Upton for Grandal
Trade Torres/Archer for Ianetta
Trade spects for Encarnacion, sign him to a new two year deal with an option for a third before he really breaks out in 2012
Sign Neshek and Gonzalez to mlb deals, Padilla and Wuertz to minor league deals
Sign Dejesus to platoon with Guyer in LF
1. Jennings CF
2. Zobrist 2B
3. Longoria 3B
4. Morrison 1B
5. Encarnacion DH
6. Joyce RF
7. Ianetta C
8. Dejesus/Guyer LF
9. Rodriguez SS
OF Fuld
OF Guyer/Dejesus
INF Brignac
C Lobaton
1. Price
2. Shields
3. Hellickson
4. Niemann
5. Cobb *
- Moore down for first month for extra year of control
CL Farnsworth
SU Peralta
SU Gonzalez
RP McGee
RP Neshek
RP Gomes
RP Wuertz
Other bullpen options: Padilla, Ramos, De La Rosa, Bush
by BossmanJunior333 on Nov 2, 2011 5:30 PM EDT reply actions
As much as I love Grandal
Reds have their own Upton already in Stubbs and if we are going for it all in 2012, we shouldn’t be extracting Upton’s power, we need to add power. The one reason I wouldn’t mind a trade for EE is to see who wins a AA vs AF trade. Would absolutley love Ianetta and the Rockies will trade him and nice call on DeJesus. Those bullpen arms are nice for the most part but Gonzalez is going to get ovarpaid because he looked good the last month or 2, his control is downright scary and with Boras as an agent, that will not be cheap.
Under construction
Im pretty high on Encarnacion
I really expected him to break out this past year, and the last 4 months of the season he was really good. Only hit 1 home run the first 2 months, 16 the last four and batted close to .300 the second half. Even his K/BB ratio is really good. In a perfect world, love to see the Rays trade for him and then sign him to a 2 year extension before he really breaks out. Also you’ve got to like the position flexability, he can play 1B, 3B, OF. That way he wont clog the DH spot.
by BossmanJunior333 on Nov 2, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He would be less of a liability than most DHs
Im not saying he is a great fielder or anything, but he is athletic and versitile. Having a most days DH that can also fill in on the corner infield and outfield is valuable. He can give guys a day off to DH while not being a complete disaster in the outfield. Could be nice to give Longoria a day off the field here and there and still keep both bats in the line up. Couldnt say the same about Damon or most DH’s
by BossmanJunior333 on Nov 2, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It's just, I've seen him so much against the Rays and he has a giant hole in his swing
If you get the ball in on him, he will not hit, he never pulls his hands, he needs to get his arms extended.
That and the Jays just picked up his option, I don’t think they will trade him in the division.
Under construction
Take it easy guys.... my first attempt at one of these
C Paulino / Jaso
1B Duda
2B Zorilla
SS Brignac/ Rodriguez
3B Longo
LF Guyer/ Fuld
CF Jennings
RF Joyce
DH Posada/ Canzler
Rotation
Price
Hellickson
Davis (Moore)
Niemann
Cobb
Farnesworth
Peralta
McGee
Gomes
Bobby Parnell
Ramos
DDLR
Trade Sheilds and prospects to the Mets for Duda, Paulino and Parnell
Trade Upton to Nationals for salary relief ( Norris, Marrero and low level arm)
Payroll about $40 M
by Moore Guerreri and Cheese on Nov 3, 2011 12:33 AM EDT reply actions
Is there enough room on the 25 man roster for a platoon with 2 people that won't see the field beyond emergency situations.
Also does Posada come back cheap enough for the Rays instead of retiring? A team without Upton and Shields just doesn’t look like a team that can seriously contend.
Not a bad team though if under that tight of a budget, but makes me really depressed about the future.
If not for the fleibility of Zobrist I would have to agree with you on keeping 2 DH
I chose Posada because he hits RHP well and I believe that he would come VERY cheap as he would spend 50% of the season in his own house and he is not likely to get any other offers. Canzler could be inserted into 1B vs. a tough lefty but that would leave Posada hitting from the right side which is not good.
I guess the question is " Can we afford to keep both Shield and Upton and fill holes at C, 1B and DH ?". I don`t think that they will have the budget for that.
by Moore Guerreri and Cheese on Nov 3, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If they are going to keep Upton and Shields, the players they Rays should target are ones that fit their system
Role players that can platoon, fill immediate needs, can be obtained,are cost effective with no long term commitment, are good on base guys, create line-up flexibility and play defense.
I would target Nick Punto, Ryan Hanigan(for a B/C prospect), Daric Barton(for a Neimann/Davis, or an Archer, Torrez or Cobb). I like Ryan Doumit as the DH(with some occasional catching) at 4 million dollars or go out and spend 10 million, sign Jason Kubel(for two years) to be the main DH, but also be able to play some LF/RFon other days.
I don't know, maybe it's just me
But it feels like we are getting a whole lot more for Upton than Shields. I don’t know if Posada has anything left, like, if they bring in a lefty, is he gonna get scared off still or all the sudden find it?
I like Parnell but the problem with him is he’s yet another guy with bad command. I refuse to even think about trading James personally but if our DH turns out to be Posada or Canzler then I am all for keeping Upton also and have Joyce as the normal DH but more of a revolving door of DH’s
Paulino, though, all those lies we were told about Shoppach, they are true with Paulion, he owns lefties and he plays good defense.
Under construction
I know the grass is always greener
but trading Upton really doesn’t make much sense unless you’re getting back several years of an everyday, cost-controlled position player and rolling the savings into a FA signing. I have my doubts about any potential Morrison/Alsonso/Duda deals materializing for one year’s worth of BJ Upton. I don’t think we can afford to lose a 4+ WAR position player without coming close to replacing his value and expect to compete next year. Maybe if we had a little wiggle room payroll wise…
Upton should get a good, almost ready ML catcher and a good young ML bullpen arm(set-up/closer).
Shields has to bring back a young ML, potential impact bat and another player of immediate need..SS, catcher or bullpen arm.
Ramos and Storen? Is that too much?
Could Niemann be thrown in there?
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Nov 5, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Too much for Upton and I don't think Neimann helps much
Ramos has already shown he can play in the majors and they will need him for next season. Nats are more likely to move Norris for Upton in a deal and if the Rays add Neimann to that deal, they may be able to get Henry Rodriquez too. I would gauge their interest in moving Tyler Moore in a deal as well.
Yeah they seem like a good trade partner if Upton is moved.
Honestly I’d rather keep him this year though
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Nov 6, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I would like to get something more than a draft pick for him before we lose the rights to him.
I think that he projects as a type B free agent.
by Moore Guerreri and Cheese on Nov 6, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
The rotation that we SHOULD have in 2012
With Price and Shields continuing to get more expensive, we gotta go for it in 2012. I say keep Upton and if we are out of it (although, what counts as out of it, now?) deal him at the deadline. A team with no pop shouldn’t be trading away 23 homers, not to mention, guys seem to do better in FA’s years…
He would at least be a Type A IMO
Under construction
I like it
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Nov 6, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
As crazy as this may sound, it's worth a mention
Marlins are meeting with Reyes and might trade Hanley if they sign him, Marlins also want pitching. Anyone see a fit? This might be a case where we have to trade 2 SP’s in one deal and even then, unless one of them is Price, I don’t know….
but going from Reid/Elliot/Sean to Hanley, nice improvement.
Staying with the Marlins, they want Fielder also so I can much more easily see a Gaby Sanchez for Wade Davis deal, I like Morrison but I don’t think they will trade Morrison instead and move Gaby to LF.
Under construction
if they sign Reyes (which would be dumb as hell in my opinion) they would have a lot less leverage
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
$15+MM/yr for the next 3 years sounds like something that would be within the budget.
The only piece I really see with the Marlins that would involve Price in a trade is Stanton, and I just don’t see it happening.
15 million for three years is not in the budget for any one player for the Rays, IMO.
That would be close to 1/3 to 1/4 of their payroll on one player. Don’t see it.
Keep Shields and Upton Trade Price
I think we can get more for Price and Shields is an affordable undisputed ace. Maybe we could package him in a deal for Trumbo, Mathis and Abreau from the Angels or Alonzo, Grandal and Chapman from the Reds.
1. LF Desmond Jennings
2. CF B.J. Upton (may have to be traded at deadline but very valuable)
3, 3B Evan Longoria
4. RF Matt Joyce/Abreau
5. 2B Ben Zobrist
6. 1B Trumbo/Alonzo/Kotchman(re-signed)
7. DH Abreau/J.D. Drew/ Damon
8. SS Sean Rodriguez
9. C Grandal/Mathis/Shoppach
Shields, Hellboy, Moore, Niemann,Davis, Cobb & Torres
Cobb/Torres, Gomes, Chapman, McGee, Peralta & Farnsworth
And we still have plenty of trade chips just in case!
Neither package is big enough to cover the loss of Price.
In order to trade Price it would have to be for a young, cheap impact bat and some high upside prospects.
Chapman is to expensive for a young reliever for the Rays, and I don’t think he could convert to a starter vs. what we already have. Abreu is due to make $9MM in 2012 and is too much for a 38 year old DH who is coming off a barely above league average season.
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