The Rays Tank: A Digression On The Rays And Marlins

by Steve Slowinski on Nov 11, 2011 8:03 AM EST in The Rays Tank

ST. LOUIS, MO - OCTOBER 30: First baseman Albert Pujols of the St. Louis Cardinals waves to the crowd during the World Series victory parade for the franchise's 11th championship on October 30, 2011 in St Louis, Missouri. (Photo by Ed Szczepanski/Getty Images)

MLB Chatter

It's been 36 hours but there's still no major development in Wilson Ramos' kidnapping case. He is alive and details have come out about the circumstances of his kidnapping, but there's been no ransom set as of yet. My thoughts and prayers go out to him and his family.

Apparently when you ask the wider public who they prefer of Matt Moore and Stephen Strasburg, most people go with the person that's been uber-hyped by the media. I think Moore is a much safer bet from a health perspective and nearly as exciting as Stras, but I am rather biased.

Rays Talk

It shouldn't surprise me that the Rays are remaining silent as always on the rumor mill. They make moves that no one anticipates, and they normally wait for the market to settle before making moves anyway. But in the wake of all the excitement gathering about the Marlins -- the latest rumor being that they're going to meet with Albert Pujols this weekend -- I'm finding it surprisingly easy to grow impatient.

We'll have to see how the rest of this offseason works out, and if the Marlins actually follow through on signing a number of top free agents. If they do, then the Rays will be put in an awkward situation: they will no longer be the only competitive, exciting baseball team in Florida, and they'll officially take over as the stingiest club of the two.

Long term, this could work in favor of the Rays. If the Marlins show that their new stadium dramatically increases their ability to have a higher payroll -- that's a load of bollocks, but whatever -- then the Rays can always point to them as justification for a new stadium in Tampa. But in the short term, the Marlins becoming exciting could dampen enthusiasm about the Rays regionally, as fans do love shiny new toys. We'll have to see.

Kevin profiled Justin O'Connor over at Rays Prospects the other day, and he seems to think there's hope for him despite his poor 2010 season. Anyone agree or disagree?

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Henry Blanco's brother

I never knew that his brother was kidnapped and subsequently murdered.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3740452

Victor Zambrano’s mom was kidnapped and held 3 days:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/zambranos_mom_rescued/

Ugueth Urbina’s mom kidnapped and held for 5+ months until a rescue attempt:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1994812

Yorvit Torrealba’s son and 2 uncles kidnapped.

http://deadspin.com/5279176/yorvit-torrealbas-son-rescued-from-kidnappers

Last night Heyman relayed a story of a guy named Gus Polidor who refused to allow his 3 year old son to be kidnapped and was shot to death:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Gus_Polidor

Scary stuff….I knew some of it and was reminded of some in Goldsteins article over at Bpro.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15505

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 8:24 AM EST reply actions

Here's to Hoping

that the Rays stay extremely quiet this entire off-season. Maybe a trade of Davis/Niemann, sign a few back end arms, bring back Damon, and maybe sign a first baseman (hell, even Kotchman would work).

The best chance the Rays are going to have at winning a World Series in my opinion is with nearly the same team that pushed to a 35-20 record over the final two months of the season while playing a very difficult schedule.

That 35-20 record puts the Rays on a pace for 103 victories. Stay the course!

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 8:28 AM EST reply actions

yeah, but we had a lot of freebie games against BOS

I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.

by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

by pudieron89 on Nov 11, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions

Yes

8-1 vs Boston in September. Rather than say Boston was a bad team that choked I’d rather say that much of their collapse was because a much better, younger, and more athletic team beat them down. I’d elevate the Rays rather than diminish the Sox as easy pickens.

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions

Dude our september was good and all, but we won the race because the sox crashed more than because we sprinted hard

by benderbrodriguez on Nov 11, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions

how can you say

anything negative about a 35-20 finish?

Is our finish why we won the race? Partly? 8-1 against Boston wrapped into that 35-20 certainly helped shave the deficit.

More importantly, the 35-20 finish is an example of what this team may be capable of in 2012.

It is too easy to suggest that the main reason for the Red Sox collapse was why the Rays won. It’s as if the Rays were just an observer of it and backed in and didn’t have anything to do with it. (the Sox collapse was certainly fun!)

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not trying to diminish the amazing run we had at the end (didn't realize we went 35-20 though, don't know how that escaped me)

but boston’s 7-19 finish was definitely the less likely occurrence out of those two

by benderbrodriguez on Nov 11, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

Justin O'Connor

If he has a miserable 2012 it may be time to consider using that Big Power Arm on the mound and see how far that takes him.

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 8:30 AM EST reply actions

I give him two more seasons

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Nov 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

This.

You never know when someone can tap into their potential. Plus, it isn’t “too late” to turn back to pitching.

by mr. maniac on Nov 11, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

As an educated Rays fan, it would be silly to think they'll do much if anything in the FA market till after the new year

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Nov 11, 2011 8:46 AM EST reply actions

For those of you who thought picking up the option on Kelly Shoppach a bad idea

the ‘big market’ Pirates just gave Rod Barajas a contract that could be worth $7.5mil

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Nov 11, 2011 8:51 AM EST reply actions

The second year/3.5 mil is a team option.

But yeah, they’re pretty similar. I might even prefer Shop. Not that I take the Pirates as a guiding light of how to run a team.

by Whelk on Nov 11, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions

Replicating a team that has 19 straight losing seasons is now a good thing?

Sign me up!

I didn’t like that deal either & I’m not one for peer pressure. If we look at rWAR for those two over the past two seasons:

Barajas: 2.3
Shoppach: 1.6

Past 3 seasons:

Barajas: 2.6 (676 PA)
Shoppach: 2.6 (767 PA)

Still rather stunned that Shoppach is just 31 years old. In hindsight, the $3.25M option was fairly valued but looking at the team’s committed salaries already and that 4 year declining wOBA, the decision to decline was still the right one IMO.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Nov 11, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions

emulating losing teams

could be a good thing….after all, they’ve shown everyone what exactly not to do for a long time…law of averages says good fortune is due to them.

After decades of languishing in last place….the Indians came up with Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, and Charles Nagy in their drafts…maybe other teams should of emulated the Indians back then….

Further, they came up with shrewd trades to get guys like Kenny Lofton, Sandy Alomar, Carlos Baerga, Jeremy Burnitz, and Omar Vizquel.

Then they continued to draft guys like Richie Sexson, Brian Giles, Sean Casey, and Russell Branyan,

Just sayin…..

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions

That's Jim Hart for you -- smart guy from Orlando :)

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Nov 11, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions

Don't forget

that Hank Peters laid the foundation…

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions

that should be John Hart :(

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Nov 11, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions

I knew what you meant

!!!

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions

Doesn't even need to cheat!

by rglass44 on Nov 11, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions

*should have

by benderbrodriguez on Nov 11, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions

I never proposed to keep him, but there might have been value in picking up the option and moving him for a C prospect.

Neil Huntington has not been running the Pirates for 19 years. I;m surprised you don’t like him.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Nov 11, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed. I generally have faith in what they're currently doing.

by rglass44 on Nov 11, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions

Jury is still out for me

I’m not a fan of the Cole pick as #1 overall. Has the potential to be another AJ Burnett from the neck up

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Nov 11, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions

This.

Rendon, Lindor, and Hultzen were all better. Myabe even Bundy.

by mr. maniac on Nov 11, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions

Josh Bell

Isn’t he worthy of not only a ballsy pick but a great sign?

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

I guess they got that pick right, although it may have been luck more than anything.

His asking price was supposed to be much higher, and I am sure many teams would have jumped all over him if they knew he would sign for that amount.

by mr. maniac on Nov 11, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions

5M is like top 5 pick money

I don’t think most teams would consider him worthy of that

by benderbrodriguez on Nov 11, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions

Not worthy for sure, but a gamble worth taking.

The rumored price was about 8 million.

by mr. maniac on Nov 12, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions

hmm

by benderbrodriguez on Nov 11, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

yupyup

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Nov 11, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions

The "Big market" Pirates also put 400,000 more butts in the seats last year.

by rglass44 on Nov 11, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions

Steve, do you know where Miami is? There's 0 chance of existing Rays fans converting to Marlins fandom.

@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.

by PlayOnWords on Nov 11, 2011 8:53 AM EST reply actions

Hey now....

the Marlins nabbing Ozzie Guillen as manager will draw me to at least a couple games down there!

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions

I live much closer to Miami than St. Pete, and I might go to one game just to see the gimmicky shit that is that stadium. That light-up dolphin tackiness will be hilarious when Reyes and Pujols hit back-to-back HRs

by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

by pudieron89 on Nov 11, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions

even when they were the only team in the state

and they had that star studded-team that won the World Series, nobody in the TB area cared at all.

by Blot on Nov 11, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions

They actually cared in Orlando in 2003

I remember a few Marlins watch parties here

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Nov 11, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions

watched Game 4 highlights

with JT Snow being nailed at the plate last night on MLB Network.

Awesome ending to a series.

I-Rod holding on while getting spanked.

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions

I'm not talking about locals converting to Miami fans, or even necessarily going to many games down there.

I guess what I was trying to get at, and failing to convey, is that for the first time since 2008, the Rays might see themselves as kinda the second fiddle in the state. For everyone in FL outside of either the Miami and Tampa Bay areas, who are they going to follow? What team starts to become the most exciting in the state? That sort of thing.

I’m overblowing it, I’m sure, since the Rays still look to be competitive and exciting this upcoming year. But I still don’t think it’s great for them long term to be forced to work on a small budget while their regional neighbors are turning themselves into a mid-to-large market exciting team. It’s not a huge deal necessarily, but it won’t help their public perception at all.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Nov 11, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions

Channeling Gordon Ramsey?

that’s a load of bollocks

by MrNegative1 on Nov 11, 2011 9:02 AM EST reply actions

Apperently, Ryan Doumit is close to signing with star studded mystery team

Interested?

Under construction

by joeybw on Nov 11, 2011 9:33 AM EST reply actions

no, i hope it's not us

by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

by pudieron89 on Nov 11, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions

Somewhat.

If it was us, I would kinda hope it be in a role like Victor Martinez is with Tigers as in mostly DH and maybe a few games at catcher. His D is horrible though and he has only had 2 real years of very good offense. I’m guessing its not us seeing as we do pride ourselves on defense and he sucks at it though.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Nov 11, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions

DRS doesn't think he's that bad FWIW

by benderbrodriguez on Nov 11, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions

Yes

by budman3 on Nov 11, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions

Just heard a Marlins beat writer on the radio here in St. Louis

(Cardinals fans are freaking out about Pujols in Miami)

But the guy said the added revenue comes from getting out of a terrible deal with the Dolphins where the Marlins received no parking revenue, little concessions, and roughly 15% of the ticket revenue. Not sure how accurate that is, but in that case, having a new stadium where they get all the revenue is definitely going to help the overall bottom line.

by TheRevTy on Nov 11, 2011 4:17 PM EST reply actions