Report: Rays Sign Jose Molina
by Erik Hahmann on Nov 17, 2011 4:58 PM EST
in Tampa Bay Rays Rumors
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PrintWe've gotten word from what we believe to be a credible source that the Rays have signed catcher Jose Molina. With Kelly Shoppach's option not picked up the team is in need of another reliable defensive backstop. John Jaso and Robinson Chirinos are still under contract but neither is known for his defensive prowess.
A career backup, Molina was dead weight with the bat until 2011. Buoyed by a .363 batting average on balls in play he hit .281/.342/.415 in 55 games for Toronto. However, before last season he had only posted an on base percentage of +.300 one time in the past eight years. On a more positive note, Molina was the best at framing pitches per Mike Fast's excellent research at Baseball Prospectus. In our recent Q&A with Andrew Friedman he stressed the importance of catching.
We'll post more updates as they become available.
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Did anyone expect a stud hitter?
Molina has an absolute cannon and the best part of this would be, we don’t have run against him anymore.
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It's going to be nice to not get thrown out by him anymore.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Nov 17, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
We can go back to stealing bases vs TOR now
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
If we buy one Molina can we get the other one half-off?
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
Wasn't there a game in Toronto where he caught us like 4 or 5 times in one game? Dude's got a great arm.
I’m pretty excited about this. Shoring up defense at a position we didn’t get much production out of last year with the bat anyways.
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe 2 of those were Upton
He’s also just like his brother where he snap throws to 1st and gets the guy. If this rumor is true, he’s a pretty good guy to catch a young staff.
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Two were Crawford I think
Unless that’s one of the other Molinas
If true this is great.
The bat may not be the best, but he is a catcher and his D when I’ve seen him has been excellent.Maybe while here, he could help Lobaton and Chirinos learn a few things behind the plate as well.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
this year and last year his #'s vs RHP haven't been horrible
With his defense, it’s a very solid move. And I’m sure it’s on the cheap, so a nice signing considering there isn’t a lot out there.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 17, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Another player from Joe's old stomping ground
The Angels. Molina, Kotchman, and Rodriguez , if I said it once I have said it a million times. Whatever Joe -AKA Manager of the year - wants, Joe gets. Molina fits in nice with the Rays defense mindset.
Gold Glove right there!
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Nov 17, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I always had a soft spot for Aybar
And since Willy is in jail again, I want Eric.
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Love it
This is exactly the kind of guy you bring in if your model is based on pitching and defense. Even if he hits like crap it will top the performance we got from the position last year, but his defense will be oh so much better. Very good move.
BTW, when I hear people say Shoppach is above avg on D I laugh...
Because guys like Molina are that much better
It's more of an indictmet of the status of ML catchers
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe, but Molina is fantastic
Great at framing, throwing, blocking, etc. Plus he can hit a bit. Huge upgrade.
last 2 years he's been average vs RHP
this year was BABIP-infused, but here’s the #’s in 2010: .273/.333/.430/.763
That isn’t great, but it’s better than Shoppach.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 17, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah over like 230 PA
Over his career he’s rocking a .269 wOBA against them
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 17, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
how wise is it to be using stats more than the last 3 years?
3 years ago the numbers were atrocious, and I know it’s SSS, but just about anything would be better than we’ve been receiving.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 17, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Shop-Molina C duo
At least we’d have constant defense
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Can any of the 2011 C hit RHP?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
That was good game
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I actually remember that he got the hit to bring us back from a defecit
that we were in because of…..you guessed it, Jose Molina hitting a friggin triple.
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That was crazy
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Man I hope this rumor is true. This would be a great get for the Rays.
Listen to them, the children of the night. What sweet music they make.
Guess the new platoon would be Jaso/Molina
I like Molina and all but isn’t that the same story again? Bad offense, good D when Molina starts.
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Better than bad offense bad defense...
John Baker for the lefty side ?
by Moore Guerreri and Cheese on Nov 17, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well Molina can’t be much worse offensively than Kelly. Can he?
Listen to them, the children of the night. What sweet music they make.
He's probably better
I was just saying how bad a Shop/Molina platoon would be at offense.
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lol
Gotcha. That would be pretty damn horrifying.
Listen to them, the children of the night. What sweet music they make.
this will help Hellickson
With the talk of him being squeezed and such this season, this should really help him
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 17, 2011 6:28 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Molina can get through to him to work faster.
Hickey and Maddon weren’t able to.
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Jason, I could not agree more
you are spot on with this analysis.
Given Molina's skillset and Hellickson lack of blow-u-away stuff,
I’m ALL for Molina being Helly’s caddie.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Molina has been signed for many defensive reasons
The main reason is to stop the other team from controlling the basepaths. Texas tore us up and you could see how helpless Joe looked when they did. Even the pitchout was not stopping them. Molina will end the nonsense.
this is what I'm talking about
http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2011/11/15/hell-boys-k-rate.html
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 17, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
But when you look at the deeper analysis
that Hellickson throws so many CU’s, which are the most likely calls to be “missed” it sort of mitigates the point.
But it’s kind of “accepted knowledge” that young pitchers get less benefit of the doubt. Whatever value accepted knowledge has. But it seems to bode well going forward.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Nov 21, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
That said
I think he’s very valuable in a C tandem, and I think he’s a very good pickup for the Rays.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Nov 21, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
This credible.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Nov 17, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
We have a streak?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, I guess this stuck with me
Fwiw, I can’t think of the last rumor that DRB has reported first that’s been wrong.
I intend to keep that streak going.
by Steve Slowinski on Oct 20, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up actions
Didn't some one report that we signed Jenks?
I mean, I’m glad they were wrong but still.
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I think HBT called that one
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 17, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
JASON BAY IS A RAY!
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone think Lobaton can actually hit in the majors?
I really have given up on Jaso and we need someone to hit from the left side, not to mention, he’s also great at defense.
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Jaso has a career 104 wRC+ against RHP
Not a lost cause
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 17, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Another study on framing pitches also has Jose Molina among the best
See it here: http://tinyurl.com/6ns9yzb
Thanks, I was trying to remember where that was.
That and Fast didn’t agree across the board, but they did agree on Jose Molina being good.
Just goes to show you that our FO reads whatever analysis is out there.
I won't pretend I fully understand what these studies mean
But in terms of runs, bottomline how much should we expect Molina to be better than average by? 1 win?
by Ben Tumbling on Nov 17, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, so in 55 games in 2011.
Depending on who’s methods you believe, you have:
Framing: 10 (Fast), 12 (Marchi)
Blocking: -2.7 (Klassen), -8.8 (Koprivica)
Caught Stealing: 3.2 (Klassen) 1 (FG)
So we end up with somewhere between 27 runs per 120 games and 5 runs per 120 games (at 10 runs per win, that’s 2.7 wins or .5 wins).
I’m guessing the FO has his true talent at somewhere on the higher side of that.
we dont really throw that many pitches in the dirt though, mostly fastball changeup guys
by Dbullsfan on Nov 17, 2011 6:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Changeups are never in the dirt
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Nov 17, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
i have a feeling he was being sarcastic
But like I said i could be wrong but I dont remember too many
by Dbullsfan on Nov 17, 2011 7:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was less sold on this study than on the framing ones (although it is super cool)
It evaluates difficulty of blocking based on observed path of ball. My worry, though, is that all that does is look at the physical difficulty of the bounce, and doesn’t take into account where the catcher thought the pitch was going. For instance, the same curve ball in the dirt could come when the call was curve ball in the dirt (in which case the catcher would be very ready) or when the call was a high curve that drops into the zone, but the pitcher missed badly (in which case the catcher would be less ready). Because of this, I don’t think that the study was able to completely isolate the catcher skill from the wildness of his pitchers.
That’s just a long way of saying that when I see a catcher with a good defensive reputation showing up badly in this list, I’m willing to give him a pass, or at least not rule out the possibility that his reputation has merit.
I think the reason Jose does not block pitches well
is that he catches without a cup on. You have to be able to get out of the way when you do this.
Kidnapped him, maybe?
Too soon?
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Wow, I really like this.
I wasn’t expecting too much this offseason, but this is already a great step in the right direction.
Even if he can’t do anything close to what he did this year, offensively, his defense would be a great welcome. Plus, he can’t be worse than what our catchers were last year.
Anyone else wondering how this affects our trade demands or other FA signings?
I mean, kinda takes the wind out of the sails for a Reds trade centered around Grandal/Mesoraco unless we’re completely punting Jaso/Lobes/Chirinos, which I wouldn’t particularly mind. Also depends on the deal Molina gets, so I guess it’s too early to say.
Go Rays!
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Would it affect a trade for Grandal?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Nov 17, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Molina is... preferred as a backup than a full timer
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 17, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
He has been a backup
on other teams, because he can’t hit. The Rays do things another way. That other way is called pitching and defense. He may fit in full time for the Joe Maddon led Rays.
I'd like to see him more than just in a backup role, but I don't know about full time
unless he’s actually hitting. Maybe play him more often during some good streaks or something, but handing him a full time job is probably a really bad idea. But if it happens, I will love the defense he brings.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Nov 17, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see him be the primary C, but Maddon will play the splits.
Would be nice to get a lefty catcher who can hit league average and play sensible defense…hmmmmmmm.
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt he'll hit for league average
especially at home.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Nov 17, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying Molina or Jaso is that guy at all.
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
My fault
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Nov 17, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
He will be 38...he won't start more than 40-50 games next season
But it does keep the possibility that Shoppach is re-signed but maybe more that the Rays acquire a another full time, better hitting catcher as the primary guy.
Molina has played in (not started)
more than 1/2 his teams games once in his career, with NY in 2008. Posada missed most of that season.
Only season NY has missed the playoffs since 1993. Molina’s worst career offensive season (maybe with the following one in 2009). Hasn’t played in more than 57 games in any of last 3 seasons.
I don’t think you should expect or even want him to start regularly. It’s hard for me to buy that Jose Molina is dramatically defying the normal aging curve in baseball.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Nov 21, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, but this is the Rays we're talking about. We're not exactly star-studded at C, or even league-average-studded.
If it’s an age/durability thing, then of course Jaso/Lobes/Chiri will get more reps, but I wouldn’t mind seeing him starting most days over those guys for his defense alone.
I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.
by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh absolutely
I’m just saying an upgrade is still desireable, this isn’t like the 3B/2B/CF positions where it’d be ridiculous for us to try acquiring players
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
I want to see us go out and get a guy like Mesoraco or Grandal as well.
I dislike Jaso and I’m not sure Chirinos or Lobaton are the answer at catcher either. I’d love a backstop combo of Molina and Mesoraco/Grandal, Molina would be able to teach them a few things.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
Five back-up catchers have already signed
Schnieder, Laird, Blanco, Barajas and presumably, Molina. Pretty sure it will be a ML deal for around 1 million.
Since I seriously hope and think this didn't affect our offseason budget much.
I really want another back end type to join Farnsworth, Peralta, McGee and Gomes. I’m gonna assume that a Heath Bell type is out of price range but I do wonder how much a Andrew Bailey type would cost us, he’s again cheap and would be a great pick up. Honestly, Ortiz is going to cost too much and and of the few options, I say we resign Damon. I would still target Ramon Herndendez and trade for a young 1B of the Gaby/LoMo/Yonder/Duda varity.
A very available BP arm is Huston Street but I’m guessing he’s out of our price range. These moves, outside if we got Street, are all cheap and fix all our holes (and yes, I am predicting a Rodriguez break out at SS in 2012), just like Joyce, he will get a much bigger chance to play almost everyday and 2011 is easily Matt’s best all around year. So, we get these moves done, all which should be possible and the last thing we need to do to have a very, very good chance at 2012 postseason would be to break camp with Matt Moore. I always saw Neimann as a RP, I think Cobb gets dealt for our 1B and Davis is my pick for #5.
Under construction
not a Ramon Hernandez believer
He’ll be 36 and he hasn’t started more than ~90 games in 4 years. That means you’re talking ~400 AB of Jose Molina, and that’s an awful lot of terrible.
To me — and maybe this is optimistic — the Jose Molina signing signifies that the Rays can go get a Chris Iannetta-type that can play nearly every day and they’re confident that they have a quality defensive/late innings backup.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 18, 2011 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Plus, Hernadez is a Type A free agent.
No way the Rays give up their first round pick for a 36-year old catcher.
by TBRaysfan009 on Nov 18, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I remember the Molina clan coming up in discussion last off season...
…and heard some sage advice in the comments: check his passport and make sure it it not Navarro disguised as a Molina. :)
Yes, I am that dufus in the beer-soaked Iwamura jersey. Why do you ask?
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