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Black Friday Shopping: Carlos Quentin

Who is up for some Black Friday shopping? Anyone? Well, I was one of those that were dumb enough to go out last night at 10pm and brave the crowds at Wal-Mart in order to get my daughter a few items at a bargain rate.

The sad part about working on a budget is that we have to wait for the big advertised bargains and hustle to get there before someone else beats us to the punch. Luckily, in baseball, that is not the case.

The Rays, as a small market team, have a keen sense when it comes to potential bargains. Whether it be in the form of a forgotten prospect, a veteran on a minor league deal, or a player that another team is looking trade to clear a little payroll, the Rays are usually one of the first teams in line for a shot at that player.

It is a bit rare, for the Rays, to find bargains from another team trying to clear payroll but I think they could find one in that fashion this offseason.

The Sun Times has reported that the Chicago White Sox are "are expected to cut their payroll from $127 million after a 79-83 season" and one player that many believe to be on the block is right fielder Carlos Quentin.

Star-divide

The Rays are in the market for a bat. That is no secret. Carlos Quentin is an available one and he will not necessarily break the bank.

Quentin earned $5.05M in 2011 as a second year arbitration eligible player. MLB Trade Rumors has projected his 2012 salary to be $6.6M after his raise in his final year of arbitration. The White Sox, who may have the worst farm system in the game, are looking to clear some payroll and add a little talent to their system. Seems like the perfect fit.

Quentin hit .254/.340/.499 last year with a .363 wOBA and 125 wRC+. In his four years with the White Sox he his average season has been .257/.352/.505 with a .371 wOBA and 126 wRC+. That would be a nice addition to the Rays lineup.

Quentin does come with some baggage in the form of poor defense in right, although 2011 metrics have him as at least average, and he has only reached 130 games played twice in his career with 131 being his career high in 2010.

The Rays could platoon him with Matt Joyce in right and use him as the designated hitter in games against right handed pitching. This would keep his poor glove off the field and help reduce injury risk while adding a potent bat to the lineup.

One year of Quentin and salary relief for the White Sox should not cost the Rays a ton. The White Sox have Dayan Viciedo ready to get at-bats somewhere in that lineup and it won't be at first, third, or designated hitter and I don't think they want Quentin and Viciedo roaming that outfield at the same time. How about a deal surrounding Jeff Niemann to get a deal done?

Niemann is projected to make $3.1M through arbitration and the White Sox will most likely be losing Mark Buehrle and have also considered trading John Danks and Gavin Floyd to clear some salary. Starting pitching with three years of control and instant salary relief should be something the White Sox would be very interested in.

If the Rays and White Sox could make a trade surrounding these two players it would give the White Sox some salary relief while adding pitching which would also allow them to trade Danks and/or Floyd to save even more money.

The Rays would add a solid bat for a net payroll gain of $3.5M on only a one year deal. If the Rays are looking for a bargain bat I believe they can get one in Carlos Quentin.

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Do you think it would take Niemann?

What about one of the prospect pitchers plus a lower level player instead? Would that be more enticing for the White Sox as they try to cut payroll? I get that without Niemann, this becomes a $6 million acquisition for the Rays, and I’d still try to trade him later with that in mind.

I’d rather save Niemann in hopes of a deal that lands us a 1b or a catcher, not 1 year of a DH.

I think I’m being irrational, though. I just get the feeling that once Niemann is traded, he’s really going to become a good pitcher most of the time, instead of the streaky guy we have now. But if he goes to the White Sox, that HR rate could be bad news.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

Ya, I don't think it's a good idea to trade pitching depth for a 1 year rental DH.

The Rays aren’t so loaded with pitching they can afford to just trade away pieces without getting some offensive help long term when they do trade the 1 pitcher they can afford to get rid of this offseason.

by jtmorgan on Nov 25, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't part with Archer, Torres, Colome... for Quentin.

Now, if the White Sox would do Barnses or Fleming then I’d jump all over that and try and trade Niemann elsewhere. Adding $6.6M in salary would be hard to do without sending some back in the trade.

by jcmitchell on Nov 25, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

But we could do Barnese/Fleming for Starlin, right?

I could care less about your graduate degree-I was a full professor at Harvard at 34 and am a full professor at Columbia now in a theoretical field whose main tool is statistical mechanics. So can can come down from your high place.

by Buzzy on Sep 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

by pudieron89 on Nov 25, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the post said Cobb and Fleming

That wouldn’t nearly be enough either but it’s better than Barnese and Fleming.

Under construction

by joeybw on Nov 25, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I still have hope that one of Davis or Niemann could land Alonso straight up

That’s wishful thinking on my part but it might be enough to land Yonder. Looking at other teams the Athletics who also are looking for a power hitting 1B have Gonzalez or Cahill which tops a Rays offer of Davis or Niemann.

The Rays are just not in the business of acquiring someone who has only one year of team control like Quentin for Niemann who has three more years team control.

by rickrays on Nov 25, 2011 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

don't think so

The Refs have thrown out Shields and Bailey as guys they like for Alonso. They have no leverage because everyone knows that the kid can’t play anything but 1st base but that doesn’t mean they’d flip him for a guy that hits the DL each season and has never thrown more than 180 IP in a season

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Nov 25, 2011 11:04 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Davis is a option

The Reds have enough offense where Wade good be solid in their rotation for many years and cheap. The Reds need someone to play LF so if the Rays throw in Guyer that might be enough to land Alonso. Fuld can be used for depth while Upton, Joyce and Jennings see the bulk of playing time in the OF.

The Reds have payroll issues and are looking at low cost options to fill in holes in the rotation and LF. Baker is not going to put up with Alonso in the OFin 2012. Jocketty knows what he has to do.

by rickrays on Nov 25, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't the A's have enough 1b yet?

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah they do but not good ones

Certainly not with the potential that Yonder offers with the bat. The one advantage the Rays have over the Athletics is that do have a OF to offer in a trade with the Reds something that Jocketty is shopping for. Seems a waste for the Rays to use Guyer in a platoon with Joyce and have Fuld as a 5th OF if Upton stays as I suspect. Guyer although unproven with the bat at the MLB level has potential and with a friendly hitters park like Great American Ball Park seems a nice fit. We know Guyer has the defense something that will make Dusty happy plus he’s cheap and that will make Jocketty very happy. I’m assuming one of Shields or Price is gone after 2012 so a OF can be had in that trade.

It’s a risk to trade Guyer especially with Upton leaving after 2012 and injury history for both Jennings and Joyce but Fuld proved last year he can fill in. The Rays also have Vogt and Canzler as options for the OF.

by rickrays on Nov 25, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

There's a lot of stuff going on in that post, but I will address this:

I don’t think Vogt or Canzler are viable options for the Rays in the OF. Unless I’m totally wrong, I don’t think they’re very capable on defense, which goes against what the Rays do and have been doing.

I’m also not a huge fan of trading Guyer. I think he fits the Rays system well, he hits both arms well (at least the past 2 seasons in AA and AAA), and he’s obviously extremely cheap. That’s not something the Rays seem to give up easily.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Vogt and Canzler would be 5th and 6th options in the OF if Guyer goes

Hope it doesn’t go there but it might.

It might take more to acquire Alonso than Davis so I’d be willing to part with Guyer if that’s what it takes.

by rickrays on Nov 25, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Fuld shouldn't be an option as an everyday or near everyday player, though.

I doubt Vogt should be, either.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Fuld is depth now and the 5th option for the OF

A decent option if someone gets hurt considering the Rays budget. I’m thinking or at least planning that Ruggiano won’t be available after ST.

by rickrays on Nov 25, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

What about Ibanez?

How much will he cost?

I have good memories of him being extremely consistent in a Mariners uniform.

by Kruegere on Nov 25, 2011 1:15 PM EST reply actions  

god awful fielder

Mariner’s site has hilarious gifs of him.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

His last 2 years in Philly confused me

It seemed like he became Anti – Ibanez, a decent bat that would sometimes get hot but a great glove which he never had in Seattle.

Either way, I’m not really a fan, I’d prefer Damon back for DH honestly.

Under construction

by joeybw on Nov 25, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I was reading up on him a bit

Probably rose-colored glasses. He didn’t walk at all last year and he’s going to be the wrong side of 40.

by Kruegere on Nov 25, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm gonna just assume everyone wants our big 4 and they want Alonso

It’s easier that way.

Who do you want at 5? Neimann? Davis? Cobb? Archer? Torres?

first 3 are probably the only guys with a shot in hell, would any of those 3 get us Alonso?

Under construction

by joeybw on Nov 25, 2011 1:30 PM EST reply actions  

Any of the 1st 3 work for me at #5

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Not a big Alonso fan...

And no way i would trade Davis or Cobb for him. IMO, Cobb is a better option then Davis moving forward. His Changeup is a legit K pitch, something Davis lacks.

by td32 on Nov 25, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd do Davis for Alonso.

His power slowly returned after the wrist injury.

where are my gifs? is this a new thread? you guys are litl fucking sluts. uck you guys. i bet you guys tmpons in the womines bathromms and pay 75 cents for each ne. fuck you

by daveh33 on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Nov 25, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

When was his wrist injury?

Because he’s never shown pwr in minors

by td32 on Nov 25, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

It was June of 2009

But yea, even for the first hundred or so at-bats he had then, the power didn’t show up.

by Ben Tumbling on Nov 25, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

It’s nice, but the power’s nothing special. He had over 550 PA to do it in. He slugged .458 that season, with what I would imagine was an ISO of about 163ish. Again, it’s nice, but I don’t think it’s pretty darn good. Billy Butler hit for WAYYYY more power in the minors when he was really young for his leagues. That type of power from Alonso is like what Butler does now in the majors at Alonso’s age. Maybe he’ll keep developing more power like he showed in his SSS in the majors last season, but I’m not counting on it. He looks like the weaker version of Butler to me, based on his stats.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Butler played in the homer friendly Cal League, Texas League and PCL while in the minors

The list is long of players in those leagues who showed power that proved to be something you cannot count on in MLB. Remember Sean Rodriquez’s numbers in those leagues?

Yonder is going to be a very good player in MLB for many years. He has some growing up to do and that includes losing weight. 240 plus pounds even for his height is unacceptable at his age. Perhaps blocked by Votto has hurt his motivation but now that he has had a taste of the big leagues and even play the OF for a good club can change his attitude about staying in shape. I expect wherever he goes he’ll be a productive power hitter one who will consistently hit 25-30 HR’s and 55-60 extra base hits while manning 1B or a corner OF position.

by rickrays on Nov 25, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Why do you expect him to double his HR rate from AAA to the majors?

I’m baffled.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I never see Yonder as a 30-40 HR guy

But it’s worth noting that he did hit the ball hard in his September call up and right now our 1B is…..I have no idea.

Under construction

by joeybw on Nov 25, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I have trouble seeing him as even a 20+ HR guy

If the Rays end up getting him, I’ll root for him like with Kotch, and I’ll be happy that we have a 1b for a good while, but I won’t be expecting a stud power 1b.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

This.

I actually could see him hitting 20-23 or so, but I expect his BA to be his best selling point,

by mr. maniac on Nov 26, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

He had 446 total AB's in 2011 between AAA and the Majors with 17 HR's

Allow him 150 more AB’s and he’ll be at 25-30 HR’s annually for the Rays and collect a additional 30 extra base hits .

by rickrays on Nov 26, 2011 5:38 AM EST up reply actions  

But what makes you think that he can hit a HR per every 20-25 AB?

Instead of his usual every 30-40 AB? A SSS from the majors last season that crushes his minor league rates?

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 7:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he will be a good hitter

but nothing special. I have more faith in LoMo becoming a better hitter(not power but overall) and player overall, though he may cost more.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Nov 25, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

"poor defense in right"

For the Rays i think that is a deal breaker, especially for over 6 M.

by Paul Ellis on Nov 25, 2011 8:21 PM EST reply actions  

They have enough OF

They do need a DH. Poor defense didn’t stop them from signing Manny and Damon, even when Damon was slotted in at LF to start the season. A detractor, maybe, but I doubt it’s a deal breaker.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 25, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Normally a deal breaker

but A) they need a DH anyway and B) they were planning to play Damon in LF last year.

They know sometimes, your defense can’t be 9 gold gloves if you ever wanna score runs.

Under construction

by joeybw on Nov 25, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I would love Quentin

I don’t care if it is only a 1 year solution, it fits the whole all out approach people have been talking about this year. So far he has been a consistent power threat the last few years.If he could produce nearly the same numbers at DH as OF, he would work out just fine.He could be the big power bat we have needed the last few years that no one can seemingly become.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Nov 25, 2011 10:15 PM EST reply actions  

What about Gaby Sanchez of the Marlins

There’s a real chance the Marlins could get Pujols or Prince Fielder and he’ll need to be traded. The Marlins need starting pitching and Davis or Niemann could be solid 3rd or 4th starters or a very good fifth starter. Gaby Sanchez is nothing special, but he’s consistently a good player who will be cost controlled and fills a whole. There’s still potential for him to improve too.

Another option is Ian Desmond too. The Nationals can move Danny Espinosa to SS and they have Steve Lombardozzi who could be called up right now and play 2B and Anthony Rendon who is also waiting in the wings.

"You need to get real!"

by MJ5 on Nov 25, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Gaby Sanchez would be a nice fit for the 2012 Rays

Heading into arbitration in 2013 so that might scare the Rays off as he’ll be expensive in 2014. Alonso would be much cheaper overall the next three or four years.

Sean Rodriquez is a better option than Ian Desmond at SS for 2012. Desmond heads into arbitration in 2013 and the Rays have Beckham/Lee waiting in the wings so Ian makes a poor fit for the Rays.

by rickrays on Nov 26, 2011 6:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd like Sanchez, but only if the price is CHEAP.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 7:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Quentin for Niemann seems about right for both sides

But the only way I see him taking the field is if the Rays a) trade B.J. Upton and b) carry Russ Canzler as a lefty-mashing DH/bench bat. Then, maybe you see Joyce sitting vs. tough lefties with Quentin in RF, Canzler at DH, Jennings in CF and Guyer in LF.

Sadly, Quentin has not played so much as a single inning at 1B in his career.

by AndrewTorrez on Nov 26, 2011 1:19 AM EST reply actions  

I would hope so, but maybe they can't.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 7:15 AM EST up reply actions  

the market is high for guys who slug .500

and I think the Rays have a real shot at being a championship team in 2012.

That being said, I’d like to see if the Rays could sign Josh Willingham (now no longer a Type A FA) first.

by AndrewTorrez on Nov 26, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

He's no longer type A?

I’m down with that signing.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

At what cost?

Willingham could get 3 years and his declining rates scare me.

by jcmitchell on Nov 26, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

2 yrs/$17 million

I could maybe do 3/24.

Willingham’s not old. He’s been putting up similar numbers for years now, and he just did it in the baseball player graveyard that is Oakland. I’m not worried about a steep decline.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Two years. Maybe, but I think that's it. But definitely not three years.

A steep decline in walk rate and steep increase in strikeout rate are alarming at his age 32 season.

And he hit much better at home in Oakland than away: .260/.350/.523 at home and .233/.315/.435 away.

by jcmitchell on Nov 26, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I would rather take a chance on signing Magglio Ordenez to DH

Shouldn’t sign for more than 1-2 million dollars and is worth the risk, especially if he is deemed healthy and doesn’t have to worry about playing the field.

by budman3 on Nov 26, 2011 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

Are you the same guy who wants Barton and Punto?

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

and?

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

When healthy, Ordenez has proven to be a very good hitter and would make probably be a very productive DH

..at a low cost relative to other “power bats” DH options out there this winter, IMO.
You disagree?

by budman3 on Nov 26, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Ordonez is a good option.

He’s no longer a power hitter, and he’s a major injury risk, even if he’s just a DH. He just made $10 million last season. He’s not as good as Manny when the Rays signed him, and he’s probably going to cost a hell of a lot more.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

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