Report: Jose Molina Officially Signs With Rays
by Steve Slowinski on Nov 28, 2011 9:41 AM EST
in Tampa Bay Rays News
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PrintIt's taken some time for the Tampa Bay Rays to finish the deal, but from all reports, the Rays have finally signed catcher Jose Molina. According to Jon Heyman:
Jose Molina signs with #Rays. Solid pickup. They know their defense down there.
And Jayson Stark has the terms of the deal:
Rays deal with Jose Molina guarantees him $1.5 M in 2012, plus $1.5M team option or $300,000 buyout in 2013.
Based on this news and the timing with the recent trade of John Jaso, it looks like the Rays really are swapping out Jaso for Jose Molina. And if that's the case, well, just look at this comparison of their average defensive runs saved:
Pitch framing data came from Mike Fast's recent research; blocking data came from Bojan Koprivica's Hardball Times study; and the stolen base runs came from FanGraphs. I had to convert all the runs allowed to the same scale -- per 120 games (1000 innings) -- so the numbers in some cases are slightly different than what you find looking at the studies themselves.
Remember, all this data is imprecise and should be taken as estimates of their defensive abilities; it's not set-in-stone gospel. But even if you are generous and give Jaso the benefit of the doubt, it still looks like Molina's defense is around a four win improvement over Jaso's. That's a massive difference, and the equivalent of signing David Ortiz (4.2 WAR in 2011) to play DH for the Rays. Yet something tells me Ortiz won't be signing for a mere $1.8 million...
There are some qualifiers to this, though. Molina isn't going to catch 120 games, and his offense will undoubtedly be worse than Jaso would provide. So the total improvement that the Rays will see will likely be more around 2-ish WAR: smaller, yet far from insignificant. The Rays seem to be hoping that catcher defense is one of the market inefficiencies currently out there, and they're jumping on Molina before other teams figure it out.
With these two relatively minor transactions -- signing an aging catcher, and trading for a reliever -- the Rays are filling two holes at once and improving their 2012 team, all while barely breaking the bank. The Rays' front office strikes again.
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These are the types of moves that make you love Friedman
and they are classic Friedman moves. Very few catchers available are competent with the bat. And you will pay a huge premium for average offense. So why not just focus on having the best defense you can find and focus on offensive upgrades at other positions? Catching defense was one of the few positions of weakness on the Rays. Shoppach held down the running game, but was below average in many other categories. A Molina-Lobaton combo will be the best if not one of the best, defensive duos in the game.
and just food for thought, look at how Friedman has transformed the bullpen over the last two years. He has now supplemented 1 year, under-the-radar vet deals, with cost-controlled young power arms. Absolutely amazing.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 28, 2011 9:53 AM EST reply actions
Yeah, agreed. It's a classic Friedman move.
And I like to think it also speaks highly about the research on catcher defense that has been done recently. Things are moving in the right direction there.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Nov 28, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
All the young Studs on this site
are saying that Molina is to old to be a full time catcher for the Rays. They are limiting his games to under 100, some have him at 80 or in a platoon. I think we should wait and see what Joe has in mind. Molina has been a backup with other teams, and this may be a good thing, as far as wear and tear on his body. I am confident that the older posters on this site could outperform the younger ones, because these young guys lead a soft life. Joe may have the same perspective that I have.
I'm a young stud at 39? Sweet!
Seriously, Molina is 37 and in shape, if you consider round a shape. He caught 100 games for the Yankees but did so in 297 PA’s as he came in as a defensive replacement and his offensive WAR (-0.6) that season nearly negated his defensive WAR (0.9) for the Yankees.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
My point
is that his bat has limited his playing time with other teams. Not his body. Joe may run him out there alot more than you are thinking.
He has never started more than 81 games at any point in his career and doubt the Rays
are looking for more. Get Shop back and we’re good
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Nov 28, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not sure where you got the defensive WAR # or what it consisted of
FG last I checked only looked at CS%, Molina’s framing appears to be a huge advantage.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Nov 28, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
was pulling the #'s from B-Ref
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
and the framing advantage would be tremendous which is why I liked the move when it was first mentioned
At some point, that advantage would have to be balanced against what is very much likely to be an empty bat. We still don’t know what SS will look like in 2012, but an 8-9 of Molina & Brignac is a pitcher’s dream.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
plus potentially expanded interleague play
if Sonnanstine is still on the roster next year, he might be a viable pinch-hitter.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Brignac? Nah, S-Rod.
I’m all for giving him the SS job next season.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Nov 28, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
for all of the reasons the team signed Molina
and then some, I think it’ll be Brignac vs. righties, S-Rod versus lefties at SS until at least the ASB. Too much upside with a potentially elite defender at short to assume that 2011 is Brignac’s true talent level at the plate.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if Molina's pitch framing results in more passed balls?
If he’s trying hard to keep the glove and head calm, he may let a few extra balls get by him. Anyway it looks like a smart trade-off for him and the team.
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three-run homers."
Some of the details from the press release
During his career, Molina has thrown out 153 of 410 attempted base stealers, a percentage of 37.3, fourth best among active catchers (minimum 500 games) behind Ivan Rodriguez (41.7 percent), Henry Blanco (40.8 percent) and his younger brother, Yadier Molina (39.3 percent).
"Jose has been one of the best defensive catchers in baseball over the past decade, and his presence will bring even more stability to our defense, and he will, of course, be a great asset to our young pitchers," said Rays Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations Andrew Friedman.
Over the past four seasons (2008-11), Molina has been the majors’ toughest catcher to steal against (minimum 200 games), throwing out 62 of 170 runners (36.5 percent) during that span.
During his career, pitchers have combined for a 3.94 ERA when throwing to Molina, fifth best among active catchers (minimum 500 games) behind Carlos Ruiz (3.73), Russell Martin (3.75), Yadier Molina (3.81) and Brian McCann (3.91). As a member of the Blue Jays, he threw out four Rays attempting to steal (Carl Crawford twice, B.J. Upton and Sean Rodriguez) in the first four innings of a 6-0 loss at Tropicana Field on April 25, 2010.
Molina has a .241 career batting average with 29 home runs in 656 games with the Cubs (1999), Angels (2001-07), Yankees (2007-09) and Blue Jays (2010-11). His most extensive action came in 2008 when he started 81 games for the Yankees after Jorge Posada missed much of the season with a shoulder injury. Molina and Rays Manager Joe Maddon were together for five seasons with the Angels when Maddon served as bench coach.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions
The young pitchers comment makes me think the Rays may look to make Molina a caddie for Hellboy and Moore.
And I am in favor of this.
Veteran pitchers tend to get more generous zones. A nice framer like Molina should help equalize the young guys’ stuff.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
I think this is absolutely correct
How much discussion has been taking place about Helly being squeezed at the plate? Lobaton with the vets, Molina with the youngsters. I think that’s the best analysis so far for how this will be an excellent fit.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 28, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
With Hellickson's issues getting strike 3 calls last season (worst in league), Molina is almost a given for him
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by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Great analysis, Steve.
Loved it.
I’m all for giving Molina and Lobaton a 50/50 split. If Lobaton looks like every bit the catcher we hope he is, then begin transitioning him to full-time duty. Until then, leave the window open for more Molina, I say.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
buzz around Baltimore
is that the Orioles are looking to trade Mark Reynolds. To me, he’s essentially a right-handed Carlos Pena, circa 2009. Given that the Orioles didn’t give up much to get him (two fringey relievers) and he’s gone down in value since then (by having to move off of 3B), he strikes me as a guy you could get on the cheap.
Reynolds will be 28 in 2012, and — although I’m no scout — looks to me like a guy who could be a plus defender at 1B.
from watching him last year
I think his “brick hands” were the result of trying to do too much at 3B. He looked good at first to finish out the year, was never considered a must-not-take-the-field butcher prior to this year, and he was stuck in Baltimore. I could be wrong, but I think he could be an asset defensively.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Career at third base:
-23.2 Range Runs, -21.1 Error Runs. 12 of the error runs came in 2008 8 last year. Range runs last year was -15.
So both range and hands were a problem at third, but range perhaps a bit moreso. Moving to first probably won’t make him good, but perhaps passable?
Arizona played him everywhere in the minors trying to find a spot for his bat
He played all 4 infield positions his final season in the minors
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
whoops
here
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/broxton-likely-to-sign-soon-mets-unlikely.html
Under construction
"but thinks the Marlins or Rays make sense"
Not definitive that he’s choosing between those two.
by Ben Tumbling on Nov 28, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Do we overall want him?
I personally do.
I think he will pull a Farns and have a great year in our pen.
Under construction
Crasnick reporting Broxton wants a 1 yr deal to re-establish value
Fits the Rays’ mold of bullpen acquisitions
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
He and Wade Davis share the same agent
So there’s a relationship there with the front office and working out a deal. That said, dude also represents Chipper and Heyward so Atlanta has the same kind of relationship
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Since we're saying bye to Jaso and hello to Molina
and either switch hitter Lobaton or righty, Chirinos and our 2 FA’s are Damon and Kotchman, maybe Friedman is trying to simply fix the lefty problem by getting rid of most of them. Now go sign Damon back, AF.
Under construction
Now you have me wanting to have Chirinos as a 3rd catcher/INF backup. I think that could work especially with all the pinch hitting that should take place for Molina.
by Ben Tumbling on Nov 28, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Lobaton is out of options
He might get the job the same way Jaso and Elliot did, the same reason Hammel was traded for nothing but man, if Chirinos can just get average behind the plate, he has the most potential with the bat easily of any our C options…..unless we sign Ramon Hernendez
Under construction
Rosenthal had something earlier about Rockies looking at Hernandez and trading Iannetta to the Angels
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
since, you know
the Angels had a guy who was 200% of Chris Iannetta last year and they weren’t going to break camp until they gave him away to someone.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
That was one possibilty they listed
Angels also want Hanigan or they can try Conger for a longer time.
Under construction
Chirinos looked excellent blocking balls, imo.
Everything defensively from him was good except for his throwing.
Opinion: Wilson Betemit
Decent pop, plays a good 3B and 1B and can be a emergency 2B. Also should be cheap.
I was thinking of him as an upgrade for Elliot who hopefully will not be back in 2012.
Under construction
Betemit can only play the corners these days
No range for the middle infield. Said a couple of weeks ago on Toby’s show that Betemit could be the new Aybar (w/o the baggage)
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
wouldn't buying high have been last season?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
from a stat perspective
but I get the sense that among baseball types, Betemit was finally viewed as a potential “everyday player” in 2011. I freely admit this is subjective.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
has serious issues hitting LHP
Had a nice outlier last season but should really shelve the switch-hitting thing
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by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, now the Rockies want Navarro
They are desperate to fill in Ianetta’s roster spot. Too bad, we already pretty much figured out that he sucks away from Coors Field.
Under construction
We pretty much fiugred out that he has sucked away from Coors.
I reject the assumed future tense in your statement.
Molina has 3 triples in his major league career.
One of them came in the Aug. 4th game I went to in which Chirinos hit a walk off single.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
Yes he did
That was such a great game to go to, there was a pretty large crowd—loud kids—and it was really exciting to see the game go back and forth for a few innings. I still remember Davis hanging a curveball and seeing Joey Bats crush it. That’s when I gave up on the game, but I know you can’t do that with the Rays. It’s a really special team to watch.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Nov 28, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
How does the Rays' off-season look so far?
What other moves do we need to make now that Catcher has been resolved (for now)?
Time to shamelessly plug my book and short story!
another reliever, 1b, dh at the least
overall, we need a guy with pop. That’s why I’m not against bringing Pena back, we need more power.
Under construction
No, we need hitting, not power.
wOBA has been shown to correlate the best with runs scored, not power numbers.
word on the street is that Pena is going to turn down arbitration
meaning that he’s looking for more than, say, 1-year/$11MM (which is about on the low side of what he’d earn in arbitration). MLBTR suggests he’s looking for a multi-year deal. So at those prices, no thanks.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be thrilled if we brought in...
Broxton, Ayala, Damon on 1 year deals, along with some young 1B in a Niemann/Davis trade. The rest of the upgrades can be made within the organization. That’s a big upgrade from last year.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Nov 28, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention it won't cost too much.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Nov 28, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Shoppach may not be able to land a starting job at this point and could be set-up to return to the Rays.
With Molina already in the fold for 1.5 million and Shoppach at a 1-2 million dollar deal, the Rays would have two market priced catchers to play next season. Though they may not add the offense one might want for the position, the certainly would bring experience and defense to the park every game(with Shoppach maybe playing 90 games and Molina about 70).
And with Molina hitting RH’ers at decent production, there may not be the overriding need for a left hand hitting catcher to compliment Shoppach. I would still expect a young catcher(maybe a year away) to be obtained via a trade this winter.
Shoppach had a $3.2M salary coming his way this season
You’re asking him to take quite the paycut to return at the salary you are proposing.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
There is not one remaining FA catcher left that is considered a fulltime catcher..
…and that includes Hernandez who hasn’t played more than 97 games in the last three years. So you are looking at back-up/platoon guys who will not make more than a couple of million. Barajas was severely overpaid by the Pirates but they have no other catcher and Doumit will not be a regular catcher. That leaves what appears to be market value at between 1-2 million dollars.
And it is pretty common that platoon type players who have their option declined are resigned by their former teams for significantly less than what they were previously paid.
You are selling this market short
Baltmore needs a 2nd catcher
Toronto needs a 2nd catcher
Houston needs a 2nd catcher (& Shoppach is from Texas)
Dodgers need a catcher to match up with Treanor
I’d like to see examples of non-injured players re-signing with the team that declined their option at a 50% discount. I can’t think of one right now
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Molina hits rightanders?
For his career, Jose Molina is 70 points of OPS better versus lefties; i.e., his batting skill set (such as it is) overlaps entirely with Shoppach’s. I just don’t see how he’s a good fit on the 2012 Rays.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Not over the last 4 seasons..
OPS in 2008..602 v.RH(.521vL)
OPS in 2009..569vRH(.539vL)
OPS in 2010..763vRH(.464vL)
OPS in 2011..759vRH(.754vL)
It’s not about the offense anyway…it’s the catching, calling a game, limiting the running games and working with young pitchers…every game that is the key for the Rays, IMO.
And put that together with Shoppachs OPS the last two years against lefties of .788(2011) and .830(2010) and it's actually good for catchers.
I’m as frustrated with watching Shoppach hit too but a tandem of he and Molina, at this point, with the way AF puts together a roster makes a lot of sense, IMO.
I get the argument for Molina
I just don’t get the argument for Shoppach given Molina.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
nor do I
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
If you buy into Lobaton/Chirinos platooning with Molina, I can see where you wouldn't.
I don’t see Maddon willing to give them half the starts not having shown anything yet at the ML level.
He gave Jaso more than that work in 2010 when he had shown nothing at the ML level
This isn’t a new script
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by Jason Collette on Nov 28, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Iannetta
MLBTR is reporting that the Rockies are considering signing Ramon Hernandez (and old friend Dioner Navarro, for some inexplicable reason) and then trading Iannetta. That makes no sense, but hey: free (cheap?) Iannetta.
Stay away from any inflated rockie mounty high guys...
…especially a catchers that is average defensively and has poor road OPS the last three seasons …657…574…587…
Average defensively?
Rockies were one of the best teams in 2011 as far as runs saved from the catcher position and he caught 105 of their games
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 29, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Ianetta ranked 11th last season in defensive value as rated by Beyond the Box score
But one year ranking wouldn’t make for any argument as Ianetta was ranked 112 out of 120 catchers in defensive value in 2010. Ianetta’s difficulties at blocking balls, framing pitches and allowing passed balls in recent seasons has been his main problem at least in terms of his value rating.
It's a bit all over the place
plus/minus likes him
BtB doesn’t
Mike Fast has him low as well
There’\s a reason why the Rox want to add Hernandez and move Iannetta
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 29, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why I believe he is at best, probably an average defensive catcher.
Paired that with inflated Coors numbers, he may not be much of an upgrade for the Rays, especially if he requires a player to be moved for him and than a 3.5 million dollar salary as well, IMO.
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