What Would A Matt Joyce Extension Look Like?
Every offseason, the Tampa Bay Rays have made it a priority to ink their core players to long-term deals. In the past, they locked up such players as Carl Crawford, Carlos Pena, James Shields, and Evan Longoria; in recent seasons, they signed Ben Zobrist and Wade Davis to deals that could last all the way through 2014-2015. This strategy is important for the Rays, since it allows them to save money -- certain players will trade certainty for dollars -- and better plan for the future.
Who are the possible extension candidates this offseason? It's tempting to hope that the Rays will sign David Price or B.J. Upton to long-term deals, but both of them have little incentive to give the Rays a discount right now. Upton is close to free agency, and Price is fast becoming an ace and will command top dollar in arbitration over the next four years. The Rays would likely be better off focusing on players that are younger, farther away from free agency, and less likely to expect to command large money in arbitration.
Enter Matt Joyce. At 27-years-old, Joyce will not have many chances to make a fortune playing baseball. At this rate, he'll hit free agency after his age 30 season, and although he's been successful with the Rays -- 30% above average offensively -- he was not a top ranked prospect and his numbers will likely not translate to huge money in arbitration. By signing an extension, he could guarantee that he makes millions off baseball instead of taking the riskier year-to-year route.
So what would an extension for Joyce look like? Tommy Rancel speculated a few weeks ago that his deal might mirror Ben Zobrist's current deal, so let's take a more detailed look at player comparisons.
Ben Zobrist signed his four year, $18 million contract after his breakout 2009 season where he hit 27 home runs and drove in 91 runs. He was going into his age 29 season, and he had four more seasons of team control left (one cost-controlled, three arbitration). The total contract breaks down like so:
2010: $0.44 million
2011: $4.5 million
2012: $4.5 million
2013: $5.5 million
2014: $7.0 million (club option)
2015: $7.5 million (club option)
Considering that Joyce is in a similar situation -- late 20s, one more season of cost-control before arbitration -- the framework for his deal would likely be similar. But at the same time, Zobrist and Joyce aren't exactly similar players. Zobrist is a powerful hitter that also is a superb defender, and Joyce projects as having a powerful bat, but he's not nearly as good or versatile on defense (and his struggles against lefties have been well documented). So before claiming if this framework is too high or low, I'd also like to look at comps for Joyce.
If Joyce was to go year-to-year for arbitration, what would he likely receive? Matt Swartz's new model for predicting arbitration rates for players suggests that home runs and RBIs are by far the most important inputs in predicting a player's payout. So if we want to estimate how Joyce would get paid, we should look at players that have put up similar HR/RBI numbers as him before hitting arbitration.
I found a couple players that were close: Adam Jones, Andre Ethier, Nelson Cruz, and Brad Wilkerson. In terms of on-field production, Cruz and Ethier are high-end comparisons, Wilkerson is a low-end one, and Adam Jones looks rather close so far. Here are their salaries through their arbitration years (in millions):
Wilkerson backtracked in his Arb1 season and never reached the peak most had predicted for him, and Cruz, Jones, and Ethier both had breakouts after posting very similar numbers to Joyce early in their careers. If we were to assume Joyce breaks out and hits around 25-30 homers, his arbitration numbers will likely mirror those three players.
With a deal like Zobrist's, the Rays would be paying Joyce more in his first arbitration year than he'd get otherwise, but they'd save on each year down the road -- assuming that Joyce continues to bloom. If Joyce didn't reach his potential and went the Wilkerson route, the Rays would be overpaying him based on what he'd get in arbitration, but only slightly. He'd still be a good value for his production, but the Rays wouldn't likely pick up any of his team options.
Still, at the time that Zobrist signed his extension, he had already hit more than 25 homers in a season and driven in more than 90 runs; Joyce has yet to hit either milestone. The Rays can point to that and attempt to negotiate a deal for Joyce with slightly less guaranteed money than Zobrist, while Joyce's camp can point to comparisons with Ethier, Jones, and Cruz as reasons why he deserves a similar salary as Zo. It's worth remembering that Zobrist had question marks around him too when he signed his extension -- One Hit Wonder? -- although I think his defense and versatility made him a safer investment than Joyce is right now.
Who knows where the two camps will finally meet, but in the end, I agree with Tommy; Joyce will receive a similar amount as Zobrist. Maybe he'll get a little more, maybe a little less, but I wouldn't expect anything too wildly different.
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Matt Joyce isn't going to break the bank
I’d rather get Helly and Moore through their arby years than Joyce
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Helly and Moore....yes, agreed.
I’m thinking of looking at possible extensions for them coming up. It’s a trickier beast with pitchers, but I think the Rays really need to do it with those two. Price is a perfect example as to why.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Nov 7, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Contract extensions for everyone!
Hellickson is part of the Boras Corp I believe sadly :(
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Nov 7, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Joyce
Joyce looks like kind of player that will hit well in his prime years. He’s not really a star in a sense but he hit pretty well this year. He was adequate through the last few months of the season too. His fielding might not be amazing but it’s definitely solid. And as with most of the Rays players, he’s a good base runner.
Joyce has given us a pretty good bat the past two years. And he’s probably going to improve a little bit these next few years. I think it’ll be smart to sign him.
Stephen Drew as a comp for Hellickson, Jennings
I was trying to think of Scott Boras clients who nevertheless signed early extensions (so, say, Jered Weaver is out — he signed a 5/85 deal the year he would have otherwise gone free agent), and what came to mind is Stephen Drew.
After his arb1 year, Drew signed a 2-year deal: $4.65MM in 2011, $7.75MM in 2012, with a mutual $10MM option for 2013 (and a $1.35MM buyout if declined by the Diamondbacks) that would cover his first year of free agency.
That strikes me as pretty good value for the D’Backs, and it leads me to believe that it’s not impossible to get an extension done with a Boras client. You’re not going to get a Longoria deal, obviously, but I’m not sure that any team will ever get one of those again.
Neither Hellickson nor Jennings seems like "the type" to sign an extension
Whereas Joyce has factors like non-star/elite prospect status, not a bonus baby, local player, not a Boras client, low batting average that lead me to believe he’s a prime candidate for an extension
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 7, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Joyce
Is certainly a good bet. He looks like at least a 270 avg 20hr 80 rbi type. He is a corners of and possible 1b. These next 4 years are a hitters prime. Definitely someone to build with and u think he will hit leftys decently
by gatrmf on Nov 7, 2011 1:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Joyce
All for going after Helly and Moore first, but Joyce should be on the radar. I like his attitude and he definitely fits the Rays mold. However, not feeling the statement about Joyce receiving similar money to the versatile Zobrist. Joyce grades out a little bit short of Zobrist in defensive and base path speed, as well as power numbers.
2 different situations.
With Joyce being younger and reaching free agency earlier there is different leverage at play. A discount in exchange for financial security should very well be possible. Zobrist had a breakout year, so there was much less certainty going forward. Joyce has his issues mostly surrounding his platoon splits, but at least he’s on the righty masher side of that.
A potential deal could be something like
2012 – 1MM
2013 – 3MM
2014 – 4.5MM
2015 – 6MM
2016 – 7.5MM
2017 – 8.5MM (Team Option 2MM buyout)
2018 – 9.5MM (Team Option 1MM buyout)
Great analysis
I like his attitude and he definitely fits the Rays mold.
Price is already at arbitration years?
That was quick
by peteypab on Nov 7, 2011 3:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes.
However we got lucky with Joyce since in most years he would’ve been a Super 2 also.
And people wonder why we waited so long with Jenning
by peteypab on Nov 7, 2011 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah but it certainley makes me worry we dont carry Moore out of ST
Even though he is clearly ready.
Might see the 2011 rotation again in 2012 with Cobb instead of Davis or Neimann for the first month or 2, I hope I’m wrong, Moore needs to make that incredible rotation and we just need a little more pop.
Under construction
1 Month in AAA would only be missing 4-5 starts with Moore.
in order to gain 1 year of team control. Without an extention it doesn’t make sense for Moore to start the season in the rotation.
Didn't we try that 1 month thing with Price?
Cuz it didn’t work. Might of actually been that he had no change up and no command of a slider(sorta still doesn’t, sadly, that pitch made him the 1st overall pick) but Matt Moore has 3 plus pitches.
Under construction
It worked with Price in regards to getting the extra year.
They didn’t try to avoid Super2 with Price. So either way he’d be arb eligible this year, but now he has 3 more years of arb left vs just 2.









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