What does the Melky/Sanchez Trade Tell us about the Davis Market?
At first blush, the Giants and Royals swap of Melky Cabrera and Jonathon Sanchez seemed like a slam dunk for the Royals to me which scared me about the potential market for Wade Davis. Before digging in to the numbers, I thought about Sanchez as the guy with electric stuff whose results often belied his abilities. Similarly, Cabrera in my eyes was the former top prospect whose poor approach (and seeming conditioning, work ethic, defense, etc. issues) failed him. There was also this:
Melky's poor defense in CF and approach had clouded my ability to honestly examine the trade. I went back and took a look at the actual numbers each player had produced over the last 3 years (my typical time-frame for analyzing what I think a player's current abilities are and for projecting forward). Looking at that, it seems more and more like the deal was very even. Below is a table that shows each player's last 3 years of WAR from Baseball-Reference and Fangraphs along with an average of the two. It also shows the three-year average for each as well as a simple MARCELS projection for going forward.
After diving in to the numbers, it seems that the swap of these two players was pretty much swapping two players of similar value . Of course, though, when looking at trades you can not just look at what the perceived value of the players are on yearly basis and call it a day. The other aspects are of course cost, contract status, and potential draft picks. Addressing the cost is fairly straight-forward; while neither have contracts in place, both are arbitration eligible and MLBtr projects their costs at $4.4 million for Cabrera and $5.2 for Sanchez. This is both players last arbitration season, so they both have one year of control left. In the same vein, both players are projected to be Type B FAs if they keep up their current performance. So the only difference between the two in the cost, contract, compensation portion of their value is $.8 million in projected salary. That, coupled with Melky's better recent performance, is probably why the Giants had to throw in a fringey prospect (Ryan Verdugo is considered to be a LOOGY prospect).
So how does this relate to Davis? Well, it looks like Davis should fetch a player that has similar value in every way. In theory a player that matches his WAR projections, cost projection, and contract status should be exactly what we're looking for in return. So what exactly does that look like?
Wade Davis is entering his third full season as a pro. In a little over 2 seasons he's been worth 2.6 bWAR and 2.3 fWAR. He's seemingly a 1-1.5 WAR pitcher at this point in his career if he progresses no more. His cost/contract status is a little trickier. Because he signed an extension last offseason, we know exactly what he'll cost from here until 2014 (then he'll either be arbitration eligible for 1 more year or there are three one- year team options). This is preferable for a team because they know exactly what Davis will cost for each of the remaining seasons. It's difficult for us as analysts to find a match because so few players have a similar contract. To try to examine Davis's worth on the open market, I put the following table together with the free agent starting pitching class of 2011 that signed for more than $1 million dollars:
This illustrates that a free agent starting pitcher costs about $3.9 million for each free agent win obtained (ignoring costs of acquisition like picks forfeited) in 2011. This is a very rough number because of the small sample size, but if we look at it as a framework to view Davis's deal, then we see he will be cost effective for the guaranteed years (3/$9.1) as he makes less than what 3 1-win seasons should cost. In fact, if Davis averages 1.5 wins/season over the three years he'll provide about $8 million in surplus value ($3.9/win * 1.5 wins * 3 years is $17.55 million). He should also make less than we'd expect if these were arbitration years if he averages 1.5 wins using the 40% of WAR-value in the first year, 60% in the second, and 80% in the third. So at worst, we can consider Davis worthy of a player of equal value entering his first arbitration year; though I'd guess he's worth quite a bit more given the additional control (either 1 more arb. year or the three options with only the final one having a buy-out).
A lot of people have bandied about a number of names for potential 1B with control, and I've identified four of which here that seem like good fits: Lucas Duda, Kyle Blanks, Yonder Alonso, and Logan Morrison. Below is a quick glance at what their career WAR/150 is (using both fWAR and bWAR), their first arbitration eligible season, projected WAR (merely WAR/150 for as many seasons as they're controlled), and their projected surplus value (total WAR at $4.5 million per win less their cost which I figured at $.45 mill. for non-arbitration seasons and 40%/60%/80% of WAR value for the arbitration seasons).
Using the same calculations for Davis at 1.5 WAR/year and $4.5 mill./WAR, then Davis has a surplus value of 11.2 without considering the options or the fact that he could also receive arbitration in 2016 and build more surplus value. That puts him nabbing Duda easily, and the Rays could make a play at the others depending on how the teams value Davis's future performance as well as their player. Davis's cost being set should also make hima bit more attractive to teams that think he is due for a breakout performance after leaving the tough AL East.
125 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Does anyone really believe general managers approve or disapprove a trade based on the player's WAR numbers?
I highly doubt even the most saberized ones do
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Was that gratuitous BP drop necessary?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Nov 9, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Rather than saying "WAR numbers," just say "production."
There’s no need to cloud the issue by making it sound more esoteric than it is.
I’m sure the Rays have a better way of holistically assigning value to the raw numbers and projecting future value than fWAR or aWAR with MARCELs, but yes, I’m also certain that this is essentially what Friedman and Co. do.
To pose the inverse of your question:
Does anyone really believe general managers approve or disapprove a trade without considering the likely overall contributions from the players involved in the trade, evaluating the worth to the team of those contributions, and comparing that to the salary owed to those players?
Because it would be really weird for GMs with economics and finance backgrounds to not do this.
by Whelk on Nov 8, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup, exactly. They probably don't use WAR, but their own internal version with the same concept.
It’s pretty impressive how close we can get to their thought processes through our crude math.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Nov 8, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Johnson: ∞ rWAR
"It was a little weird seeing Ashley running at me with a closed fist. That was a scary look."-Matt Moore
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 8, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
The appeal Davuis has is a somewhat proven track record in the ALE
and yuears of cost control
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Way to uz the u's
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Nov 8, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Really good piece.
You’re more conservative on Morrison’s value than I am, but even there he’d be a stretch for Davis…Rays would definitely need to throw in something else. If we’re going to be trading Davis instead, I don’t see us getting a player quite that good, sadly. Duda would seem a more likely fit.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
Davis plus Torres or Archer for Lomo who hangs up first?
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Marlins want lefties
They want pitchers in general so they wont laugh at Archer but they really want lefties, the Torres deal might work but if we are going to deal Torres or Archer also, I would prefer to trade Neimann instead of Davis.
Under construction
It's too much for LoMo
However, the Marlins are not enjoying the Morrison LF experience and probably would prefer having Coghlan(sp?) back in LF and sign that cuban. Marlins are in spend like no tomorrow mode.
That includes Fielder or Pujols so I think Davis or maybe even Neimann (if they sign one of those 1B) can get us at least Gaby or LoMo
Under construction
Yes, because the Marlins have already spent all this money.
This wouldn’t be the first time a team acted like they would get all the top free agents.
this is based solely off his small stint in the bigs (for all of them). i didnt want any former users accusing me of "shooting from the hip."
also, id say i was fairly conservative on davis who i think will be much better than 4.5 wins over the life of his guaranteed deal.
Agreed.
Looking only at a stat sheet, it may seem that way. I just have a hard time believing he doesn’t get much better.
I don't
Wade Davis inspires absolutely zero confidence, he can’t miss bats and he can’t stay in the zone
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Objective measures of these things
Swstr-5.9% (3rd worst in the AL)
Zone-44.8% (12th worst in the AL)
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
I want the #s after the velocity return and the addition of the cutter.
You are ignoring several huge factors. If Price were to start throwing 88 MPH, I would expect similar things to happen.
Fangraphs doesn't have those numbers
But his August xFIP was 4.15 and his september was 4.30, still about half a run worse than Niemann’s on the season
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Like I have said, the results were not there, but he looked like he was coming close to putting it all together.
In August and September his whiff% was 6.63%
Still well below the 2010 average of 8.5%.
I don’t know if the 2011 average changed very much (doubt it), or if I’m looking at quite the right period. Merits a longer look.
HE WAS RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF TURNING IT AROUND THOUGH I CAN JUST FEEL IT
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 9, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
My bad.
Even though you have no facts to prove my gut feeling is wrong, I am 100% wrong, as is anyone who has ever disagreed with you. I eternally apologize.
niemann plus upton
LoMo + one prospect seems win-win for both side
by Patrick Relano Kim on Nov 8, 2011 3:03 PM EST reply actions
I still say if you want an improved offense, you don't trade Upton in his first FA year.
He should finally have a very good year. Makes much more sense to trade a SP for a bat than a bat for a bat anyway.
And I think I will include this in all my posts from now on, sign Ramon Hernandez (he’s Type A but Reds may not offer him arbitration since he would probably accept and they are going with Meseroco and Hanigan)
Under construction
Reds could offer arby to him knowing that he will probably decline
Likely to make about 4 million in arbitration but he could probably get two years at 4-5 million this winter as he’ll gain a lot of interest. Reds would prefer the draft choice, if they know he will sign elsewhere. I would prefer Hanigan, if the Reds went in another direction or Hernandez somehow did end up back with the Reds(like Benji Molina who didn’t get the money he was looking for in FA and resigned with the Giants).
they wont offer it because it's dangerous for him to decline
Type A’s never find a job easy.
Under construction
Perhaps, but offering and him accepting(at maybe 4-5 million) may not be the worst thing in the world.
It is good insurance in case, Mesoraco isn’t quite ready. Plus, it gives them a wealth of catchers to deal at some point(including Hernandez, during ST or up until the deadline) for needs that arise for them.
Davis For Logan Morrison?
Would the Marlins go for it?
They would think about it.
Can Gabby Sanchez play LF at all, even to Morrison’s ability? That could open up 1B for them.
You know, theres also a chance we can get Gaby
He only knows 1B and they want Fielder or Pujols so another question would be can Davis get Gaby?
Under construction
I wouldn't mind Gaby Sanchez as a consolation prize, to be honest
particularly if his value is through the floor as it appears to be
he seems like esssentially a finished product to me. hes kotchman in a good year.
he’ll be arb. eligible after this year whereas morrison has an extra year. his track record is longer, but morrisons better at the dish in his time there.
He could probably add a little more power & BB%
Still, not too bad to get a 3 fWAR 1B for not too much.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
I certainley would
I think Gaby, while not a future HOF is a good hitter with decent pop and moving out of that football stadium he played in might add some homers plus I’m not a Neimann fan and he’s another guy out of the way for Moore. It would really come down to Cobb vs Moore if we deal Neimann or Davis and we would have a good 1B.
Under construction
this is a long sentence:
I think Gaby, while not a future HOF is a good hitter with decent pop and moving out of that football stadium he played in might add some homers plus I’m not a Neimann fan and he’s another guy out of the way for Moore.
im surprised you were able to make it all the way through it…
in all seriousness, the Marlins old stadium represses RH power less than the Trop, and it’s better for hitting in overall.
Well he posted back to back years of 2.3, and 3 WAR
He’s only entering his 3rd full year in the majors. There still could be some upside there. In both years he started off hot and then tapered off after the All Star break. Sanchez is already better than Kotchman. In Kotchman’s “career year” he only posted a 2.8 WAR. Gaby could provide good double power, solid defense, and he’s only beginning his arb years, so the cost isn’t that great of a concern.
If it was Sanchez for Niemann, it’d be hard to not do that.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a list of the 3-WAR 1B over the last 3 years (>9 wins from 2009-2011):
Albert Pujols
Adrian Gonzalez
Miguel Cabrera
Joey Votto
Prince Fielder
Mark Teixeira
Paul Konerko
Ryan Howard
I don’t think Gaby Sanchez fits that group.
What do you think the cut off mark is for Grandal?
We have to consider that the Reds need pitching and they have Meseroco.
On our side we wont trade Price, Hellickson or Moore and we would need more than Grandal for Shields.
Davis + _? for Grandal
do they even listen to an offer involving Neimann?
does Cobb have the trade value yet?
Anyway, we should just go hard after Grandal before another team (Jays even though they don’t need a C) steal him.
Under construction
It depends if Grandal can stick @ C still
He’s regressed sadly.
Nor do I know how much Reds value him.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
Think of all the fun you could have with "Duda day" jokes.
Davis’ strikeout rate is on a nasty downward trend. That has to hurt his trade value.
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three-run homers."
Such as
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three-run homers."
by ThreeRunHomer on Nov 8, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
It went back up later in the year
When he learned strikeouts were legal again
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
Yup.
At the end of the year, I saw him as a guy who had everything in place to put it all together and become a stud. The command looked better, the stuff looked better, etc…. he just never put it together.
That is why I would be hesitant to trade him when his value is so low. Niemann, on the other hand, probably won’t get better and his price is gradually getting higher.
Neimann is frustrating
We have all seen it, he can flat out make hitters look stupid but ever since the guy was drafted, he can’t stay off the DL and when he’s bad, he’s realllly bad. I like Davis much more and he has already won some big games for us despite limited chances. The 2010 ALDS, pretty good 2011 September and don’t forget he set the tone for those Red Sox games, in the first of 7, he went CG on them. Combine that with his contract and I wish someone would overpay for Neimann.
Under construction
that's why someone might roll the dice on Niemann
injury concerns might keep the value down, but they know when he’s right, he’s a solid starter.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Any articles I wrote about him would be poop jokes
“Dropping a Duda”
“Duda Puts up a Stinker”
etc
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Gaby Sanchez is better than people seem to think
Last 2 years where he finally got a chance, he hit 19 homers each in a pitchers park. his walks almost matched his strike outs this year, his defense is very solid and even after having a god awful 2nd half, he still hit .270
A .270+ hitter with 19+ homers and a guy who had 74 walks to his 93 K’s? Sign me up, Marlins want either a big FA or LoMo at 1B and I think Gaby should come cheap. If it’s Neimann straight up, gotta jump all over that.
Under construction
Very solid
He’s just a good player who might not be expensive to trade for at all.
I mean saying things like they don’t like Morrison’s defense in LF and then rumored to be going after Pujols/Fielder, it’s almost like they are telling teams, they want to trade Gaby.
Under construction
19 homers in that stadium is not bad at all
I mean, he’s no Mike Stanton but if you look at our past 1B’s, he will have a better AVG then Pena or the life long Rays hero and more pop than Kotchman, he seems like a good and cheap fit.
Under construction
If he can put together a full season, instead of a half season, his numbers would be solid
still only entering his 3rd season as a starter.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
I like him a lot and would love to have him as our 1B
but 54 xbh is really disappointing for a 1B, that’s all
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
that's still 18 more than Kotchman and only 4 less than Carlos Pena
Here are the names of the 1B who had more: Miguel Cabrera (78), Adrian Gonzalez (75), Prince Fielder (75), Joey Votto (72), Michael Morse (67), Albert Pujols (66), Mark Teixiera (66), Ryan Howard (64), Mark Trumbo (61), Carlos Pena (58), Paul Konerko (56).
Take a look at the salaries of all of those players. Outside of Trumbo and Pena, all of those guys are out of the Rays stratosphere financially. I don’t think you are being realistic.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm that's fewer than I thought
It seems I was mistaken
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
well, yeah
I meant to include him as well. But depends on what Wash wants via trade. And is he a 1 year wonder? But all I’m saying is there are very few on that list that are either a) available or b) in the Rays price range.
It’s not so easy anymore to find a 30 HR power hitter.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 9, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
All of you who like Davis more than Niemann are buffoons
K/9 BB/9 GB%
Davis 5.14 3.08 36.3
Niemann 6.98 2.46 46%
Niemann is far better in every way, except in BB%, where he’s only a decent bit better. They both have had multiple DL trips the last two years so you can’t really say Davis has a spot free track record healthwise, and frankly the Rays have more need for good pitching than they do durable pitching (given that Cobb, Torres are ready in AAA if someone gets injured). We also have committed lots of money (for the Rays) to Davis, money that he probably won’t be worth to a team with as little payroll as the Rays, whereas if Niemann falls off the wagon completely, he can be non-tendered.
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 9:30 PM EST reply actions
Niemann had the better FIP, xFIP, and SIERA too if the numbers above don't give that away (his xFIP was more than a full run lower than Davis's, 3.73 vs 4.82)
Niemann’s ERA and WPCT were better too if that’s your cup of tea
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Explain how Davis beats Niemann on a scouting basis please
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Also, it's fine and all to expect progress
But Niemann’s performance was miles ahead of Davis’s. And who’s to say Niemann can’t progress as well?
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Davis is only 26, no injury history, and had very good potential coming into the majors
Statistically speaking: Davis is nothing if not durable. In 2009, he threw a total of 195 innings between Triple-A and the big leagues. He’s made at least 27 starts in each of his four full Minor League seasons, averaging 165 IP per season. And they’ve been quality ones, as proven by his career 3.28 ERA, 8.7 K/9 ratio and 1.255 WHIP.
Scouting report: Davis is a power pitcher with a heavy fastball he can get up into the mid 90s that he keeps down in the zone. He’s also got a plus curve he can throw for strikes at any time. He’s worked on a changeup and a slider, as well. He’s a good athlete and a tremendous competitor. His walk rate hasn’t been terrible, but he could stand to cut down a little on the free passes.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
and I'm a very big fan of Niemann...when healthy he's shown he's more than capable of pitching well in the AL East
Davis should be more attractive in the trade market because of age, durability, potential, and up to six seasons of team control and yet very little financial commitment. No reason why he can’t fetch at least what Edwin Jackson did for us. Niemann won’t fetch that much because of his checkered injury history.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
sure he has no injury history, if you ignore the fact that he's went to the DL each of the last two years.
Niemann’s a whopping 2 years older than Davis, and you’re posting a scouting report from three years ago
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Scouting wise, Niemann is pretty weak unless he is in his typical dominant stretch, which never seems to last that long.
Davis has better stuff. I know it doesn’t show in your #s because he had a severe, and for a while frightening, loss of stuff. However, by the end of the year, his stuff had returned.
was learning how to pitch
and was willing to sacrifice some ‘stuff’ for control, which backfired. Jury’s still out on what he’s fully capable of.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
You're throwing around platitudes
I don’t see what’s pretty weak about Niemann’s good K, BB, and GB numbers. Sure he has clunkers, but so do Shields and Price. His overall season numbers (which average out your supposed short “dominant stretches” and his “pretty weak” ability the rest of the time) speak for themselves
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Niemann is a good pitcher.
I jsut like Davis more. This could be just me letting velocity blimd and hinder my viewpoint, but I guess we won’t know quite yet.
Niemann has injury issues throughout his minor and major league career
Davis IP has still increased in each of past two seasons from 168 IP to 183 IP. Well on progress to a 200 IP season this year. And that scouting report shows what was thought of him coming into the majors. The potential is still there. I’m not saying Davis is that great. I’m just saying that most teams, if they had to choose, would pick Davis and his potential over an injury-riddled pitcher with flashes of dominance. But to each their own. I, for one, hope that Niemann is still pitching for the Rays in 2012.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 8, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Davis has thrown more innings than Davis, and I believe his DL stints were (in large part) to fix issues that weren't altogether due to injury.
I'm pretty sure you meant Niemann
And you’re absolutely right. Niemann’s injury history is more alarming than Davis’s no question. Still, it’s disingenuous to pretend that Niemann’s been injury ridden these last few years and unreliable while Davis has never missed a start
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 9, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone is saying that
I guess I could’ve worded things differently, but the point I was making is that Davis doesn’t come with a major injury risk like Niemann. Just because he’s been on the DL doesn’t mean he’s a major injury risk. One of the biggest knocks on Niemann throughout his entire career has been durability concerns. And for a guy of his height to be having back troubles, that can be a long-term issue.
by raysfaninminnesota on Nov 9, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Niemann can progress.
We just have a fairly consistent track record from him. With Davis, things are all over the place. I am optimistic about it, you aren’t. We can only wait and see.
I fully believe Davis will be 2-3 wins more than Niemann over the next three years if both remain starters.
My claim is that Davis, even at his best (unless you count half a dozen games at the end of 09), than Niemann has consistently been
Niemann’s also improved his K%, GB%, and xFIP each and every single year since being in the bigs. It’s not like he’s falling apart
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 8, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
12.6 million including the buyout
That’s a pretty decent chunk of money for the Rays. I’m also willing to bet Niemann makes less than 9.1 million over the next two years, given that MLBtr projects him for 2.7 million
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 9, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Dig back further if you'd like
Niemann still outshines Davis in every sphere
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 9, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Their career FIP/xFIP/ERA/tERA/SIERRA difference is 0.23/0.44/0.06./0.31/0.39.
So Niemann’s been slightly better; but he’s older, has a more worrisome injury history, less favorable contract situation, and I think most would agree less projectable stuff. To me it’s a no-brainer that you’d prefer to trade Niemann.
Not only has Niemann been better (to the tune of about .3 runs per 9) but his numbers have also consistently improved each season in terms of performance
Whereas Davis’s have gotten worse (albeit only comparing one season to the other).
It seems only fair to place more emphasis on recent performance than a few years ago
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 9, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
the last 3 years?
08 xFIP 4.8 (111 xFIP-)
09 xFIP 4.46 (101 xFIP-)
10 xFIP 4.18 (100 xFIP-)
11 xFIP 3.73 (92 xFIP-)
this doesn’t account for the leaguewide drop in offense or anything
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 9, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
wait yes it does never mind
temporarily forgot what xFIP does
by benderbrodriguez on Nov 9, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of back and forth on Davis and Neimann, I see
I like them both even if they are blocking Cobb and more importantly, Matt Moore. One of them or Alex Cobb is getting traded, it would be a surprise if they aren’t. Despite showing consistently, I simply see Alex Cobb in Durham. Probably because he is not one of our prospects that I think is bullpen bound and well, there are only 5 spots. This is why we trade one of Davis/Neimann because if we honestly want it in 2012, Moore can’t even miss 4,5, whatever starts.
If all things were equal, I keep Davis and have the rotation that teams dream of in Shields – Price – Hellickson – Moore – Davis but they aren’t. Davis is under control through 2017, pretty cheaply, he may not be the healthiest pitcher ever but you can not count on 200 IP on Neimann happening too often, if at all and he is just starting arbitration which means if the team gets what they want and he does turn out to be great, he’s gonna get expensive in his last 2 arby years. Basically, I say if we can get Gaby for Neimann, then do it and do it now but if the Marlins instead wanna talk Shields for LoMo, im going back to the Yonder bandwagon,
But until someone is traded or we get very annoying news that Moore was sent down to AAA, we can dream for now and my dream rotation is Shields – Price – Hellickson – Moore – Davis. I can’t think of a better #3 then Helly besides Hamels, honestly. There is no better #4, refuse to believe that and Wade Davis as a 5? To try to put that in some perspective, #5’s are usually off the playoff roster or not used, some teams turn to guys like Brad Penny, Rick Vanden Hurk, etc. Rays, on the other hand have a pretty damn good guy in the #5 slot. Now imagine that rotation if Archer hits his potential sometime this season.
My long way of saying that Neimann can dominate more than Davis but when he’s bad, he’s much worse than Wade and I would try and see if Friedman has any magic dust to use to get a good bat for Neimann.
Under construction
One of the guys we wanted, well, I wouldn't expect him anytime soon
Wilson Ramos has been kidnapped. At least if you listen to rotoworld.
Under construction
It's actually a sad report. This happens way too often in Latin American countries where the crime(especially kidnapping) is prevalent.
Hope he gets returned, safe and sound.

by 



























