Chris Iannetta for Tyler Chatwood!

by BurGi on Dec 1, 2011 12:02 AM EST

WOW! That's not very much for Iannetta. I can't believe it. Am I missing something? If I'd be the Rays, I would have given up more than Chatwood for Iannetta. Iannetta/Molina behind the plate with Lobaton(I know, out of options)/Chirinos as depth in AAA or as trade bate would make me feel much better about the team in '12. What do you guys think?

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How significant are these career home and away splits for an evaluation of any trade for Ianetta?

Ianetta at Coors: 863 PAs; 41 Doubles, 37 Home Runs, .262/.377/.492

Ianetta away: 870 PAs; 31 Doubles, 26 Home Runs, .208/.338/.369

by bobr on Dec 1, 2011 6:50 AM EST reply actions

I think that's certainly part of it.

Also, I think the Rays weren’t ready to give up one of their starters — even just Wade Davis — for one season of team control. If they can get LoMo for a similar price, I’d take him over Ianetta any day of the week.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 1, 2011 7:38 AM EST up reply actions

non-exclusive

get LoMo for Davis and Iannetta for, say, Alex Colome.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the Rays to pass on Iannetta; I’m just sad in that I can’t really find another plausible fit to upgrade the catching in 2012.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 1, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions

Why give up something the Rays value highly for 1 season of control at a part-time position.

That in the end would only be a minor upgrade.

by jtmorgan on Dec 1, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions

This.

by mr. maniac on Dec 1, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions

well

First, obviously I get it — I said, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pass on Iannetta.

Second, if you think the Rays can put together a 95-to-100 win team this offseason and potentially win the World Series, well, then I think you do that. Right now, the Rays can potentially upgrade the offense at two positions: C (78 OPS+ in 2011) and SS (50 OPS+ in 2011). (The Rays got a 128 OPS+ out of Casey Kotchman and a 110 OPS+ out of Johnny Damon, so even upgrading the talent at 1B/DH is unlikely to upgrade the results significantly from last year.)

So: catching and shortstop. I’ve already argued at length that I don’t think the Rays are going to try and upgrade at SS — the talent is too expensive to acquire, there’s too much young talent in the pipeline (Beckham, Lee, Dietrich, and then the 2011 draft class), and they’ve got too much invested in Reid Brignac to just give up on him after 250 crappy at-bats. I could be wrong here, but I just don’t see it.

So basically you’re talking about catcher. Personally, I don’t see how a Lobaton/Molina arrangement is going to even match the 78 OPS+ the Rays got from their catchers in 2011. Maybe I’m underselling a guy who was essentially league-average with the bat at ages 25 and 26 in AAA. I hope I am.

So to me, that’s the case for overpaying to upgrade at C.

Side note: Logan Morrison has a career 119 OPS+. I love the guy, I think he’s a clear target, but I’m not certain that in 2012 Morrison would even duplicate what the Rays got out of Kotchman last year.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 1, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions

Then choose someone else, such as Ramon Hernandez or something.

Iannette poses too much of a risk for a team such as the Rays that relies on getting the most out of their players.

by mr. maniac on Dec 1, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions

but this move takes Hernandez off the market as well

so.. who’s the “or something”? I can’t come up with one.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 2, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

Then choose no one and go with Chirinos.

by mr. maniac on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions

not sure that would be an upgrade over what the Rays got

from Jaso/Shoppach last year.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 3, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions

I think the team as it is would be around a 95 win team, assuming a league average 1B and DH.

The catching as a whole around the league is pretty weak offensively, so I think the more attractive solution from the Rays standpoint. They can always pinch hit for the catcher once per game in order to get a bat in there in key situations. How much further would the average catching stat line league wide look if it weren’t for catchers who DH or 1B in order to keep their bat in the lineup.

At shortstop I also agree they’ll go in house, because what’s in their price range isn’t likely to help much more considering how close Beckham and Lee are to the majors. With Brignac I don’t know how much leash they’ll give him, but without an improved approach during ST I don’t see him getting a whole lot of time to figure it out and be given the majority of a platoon.

At first base once you account for the approximately 100 PAs by DanJo and Lopez it brings down what Kotchman did to around a league average bat for the position. I think this is where they’ll use their trade chips to try to fill the hole cheaply and for the next 4-5 years. If we acquire a Morrison/Alonso/Duda type that will replace Kotchman and others production with the potential for a breakout.

The bench was pretty terrible this year Consisting mostly of Fuld/Ruggiano (whichever wasn’t part of the wait for Jennings plan playing in LF), Brignac/Srod, Elliot Johnson, and Shoppach/Jaso there is room for improvement for people who could receive 200 PAs or so. This would also help cover the lack of offensive production from the catching position through pinch hitting.

As I wrote about before, I think the biggest gain offensively will be having Jennings in 90-100 games. A wild card in the outfield is also what they think they can receive from Guyer. At worst he could provide an upgrade over what Ruggiano provided or could be enough to earn an OF job and allow either an Upton trade or a move of Joyce to 1B/DH.

I want to see a move that betters the team and give it their best shot at winning in 2012 and the future. Most of what’s needed is in house, thankfully, and with the acquisition of a 1B/DH, a bench bat, and a bullpen arm or 2 this team is fully capable of winnings 95-100 and taking the AL East title back with a potential shot at a WS Championship.

by jtmorgan on Dec 1, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions

I think there are better stats than OPS+ to show what was done last year..

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 1, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions

sure; that was a quick & dirty analysis

in service of a pretty basic point

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 2, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

To be fair, Chatwood was rated the 76th best prospect heading into 2011, is cost controlled, and has upside.

by mr. maniac on Dec 1, 2011 10:09 AM EST reply actions

Colome was the 68th-best prospect

so again, we’re not talking about putting together a major package here.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 1, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions

I wasn't arguing that Colome wasn't enough.

I was simply contending to the impression that OP was giving that Chatwood was a total scrub.

by mr. maniac on Dec 1, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions

He is.

He’s not good. He’s had moderate success in the minors, but even then, he hasn’t been great. I am SHOCKED to see he was ranked among the top 100. It must be due to the Angels rushing him through the system and age/league placement because it can’t be due to his control, K ability, or FIP.

That said, Alex Colome doesn’t look a whole lot better after his 2011.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 1, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I think you're underrating Chatwood

sure, the Angels were pretty stupid in their treatment of him, but you’re talking about a guy who held his own in the majors at age 21 despite having just 5 career starts (21.1 IP) above AA. Oh, and he’s also a former second-rounder with good scouting reports (questions were about his command, and I’d say they’re still there).

Anyway, bottom line is that I’d love to have a guy like that in my organization.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 2, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions

To each his own.

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 2, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions

Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!

by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 3, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions