Rumors Rumors Rumors
by joaker5 on Dec 10, 2011 5:26 PM EST
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www.MLBTradeRumors.com has two difference blurbs about the Rangers trying to put the pieces in place to trade Mitch Moreland to the Rays for Wade Davis. Their two targets are Prince and Casey McGahee. Apparently they would move McGahee to first, allowing either player to give them the flexibility to move Moreland.
Personally I'm not really loving this deal. Moreland's slash line last year was 259/316/414 and that was with half of his games played at the Ballpark in Arlington. Moreland is 26 years old, so it's possible he's about to spike, but he is less than I would want out of Davis. He appears to be significantly less skilled than a guy like Alonso and would even represent a downgrade from Kotchman based on last years performance.
Thoughts?
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I'll pass on Moreland
I really think the Reds are going to find that they 1) need Wade Davis and 2) aren’t going to do better in a deal for Yonder Alonso.
At some point Jocketty will figure this out.!!
cheers
I’m seriously hoping you are correct. Alonso is exactly the kind of guy that I want for this team. A good looking bat, young and ready. This team will be much more dangerous with him on it. I would be extremely willing to give up their pick of davis/neimann/cobb + a good prospect for him, something in the Archer/Beckham range.
a starter and a prospect like archer/beckham
is to much imo. I still dont see why Davis/Niemann wouldnt be enough.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 10, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Davis != Niemann
Davis is more valuable in my opinion when you look at his cost certainty and those option years. Niemann has a better track record but all things considered you don’t know how long you can control him and at what price.
by elijah.dukes on Dec 11, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree.
I’m just saying whichever starter the team we are trading with,in this case the Reds, prefers.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 11, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
There are also Andrew Bailey and Bobby Abreu rumors flying around
I love, love, love Bailey but he’s gonna be expensive in players and now in money.
I do not want Abreu at all, I would prefer Damon to him.
Under construction
How much do you think Bailey would cost in a trade?
He can’t cost to much, he’s a reliever, a good one, but still a reliever.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 10, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Bailey
In my mind it would take a good prospect like Archer/Torress plus another one or two in the Bortnick/Barmese range.
The problem is his cost. The financials lead me to think he won’t be worth the player cost.
If it cost Archer or Torres
then I guess nevermind. I would trade Colome, but not either of those 2.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 10, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
If Fielder leaves the Brewers(and Braun faces a suspension), the Reds are suddenly in position to grab the Central
Which makes me think they really have to trade for a ML starter and they should prefer a top of the rotation guy. Neimann/Davis are decent but not worth Alonso straight up, IMO. Neimann would be a better choice for Great American Ballpark. Since the Rays don’t have a closer the Reds are looking for, they may need another young starter type for that deal(Archer, Torrez). Which means the Rays should ask for something else back from the Reds as well….maybe Yormin Rodriquez?
If they are really want Shields the conversation starts with Alonso and ends with Grandal.
Alonso and Grandal doesn't seem like a great return for Shields
Between those 2, only Alonso can help this season, and he’s not head and shoulder above other 1B options that we can acquire without giving up Shields. The 2012 Rays rotation with Shields in it is much more appealing to me.
I feel like I don’t want to trade Shields unless the return is something crazy like Wil Myers/Cheslor Cuthbert/Jake Odorizzi or Shelby Miller/Oscar Taveras/Carlos Martinez. You know, crazy.
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 10, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
And what if Alonso turned out to be as good a hitter as Adrian Gonzalez?...And I think he could.
You are talking about a top 30 prospect in Alonso and a top seven catcher in Grandal. And AF would probably ask for an arm back in the deal as well. Plus Grandal could help out by the second half and may be the Rays catcher for the next 5 seasons.
Why do you think he could hit like Gonzalez?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Through their minor league careers they have very similar numbers.
At about the same age, size and experience they both showed they were good hitters, great on base guys(who knew the KO zone) and decent power in the minors. AG didn’t show the power in the minors(despite playing in the inflated PCL) that he has in the majors..which happens to a lot of good hitters. They also fluctuated between prospect rankings as MiL’ers but were generally described both as guys that were definitely going to hit at the next level.
sign Kevin Mench!
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
It is a nice thought,
but not a logical conclusion. You cannot infer anything about Alonso’s future by finding a particular player with a similar profile who became a power hitter. To draw even rough conclusions about the odds, you would need to examine the performance of all players with similar profiles. All you are demonstrating is that it is possible-not likely-that a lack of power in the minors may lead to an Adrian Gonzalez career.
For example, I could just as easily point out that Alonso’s minor league performance is similar to Kotchman’s.
Kotchman’s minor league stats: .324/.406/.491; 34 HRs and 103 Doubles in 1248 ABs
Alonso’s minor league stats: .293/.370/.466; 36 HRs and 85 Doubles in 1179 ABs
That does not mean Alonso will have a similar career to Kotchman any more than the Gonzalez comparison suggests he will perform like Adrian.
by bobr on Dec 11, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would not give up Shields for Alonso and Grandal.
Davis/Niemann plus a prospect instead.
Or Shields for Daric Barton and Nick Punto. Not on the same team, you say? THEN NO SHIELDS.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 10, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose we can all dream of the big names being thrown around for an impact 1st baseman
But there is probably much more of a likelihood that Barton ends up at 1st base for the Rays over any suggestions being made around here. We are, after all, dealing with a GM who makes the most out of the lesser moves.
I'll eat my Rays hat if Daric Barton breaks camp as the Rays 1B
by Peter Piontek on Dec 11, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'll eat my family.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Keep your eyes on the local paper.
I’m from out of town, but this will surely be reported by the AP.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Moreland isn't good on offense, and he's not even good on defense.
No interest.
Also, just a question for anyone: Why is Mesoraco so much more highly regarded than Grandal? Is it anything more than having more experience in the minors? Just wondering. Thanks.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 10, 2011 11:26 PM EST reply actions
But Grandal's numbers are pretty good.
What’s the knock on him?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
I think they're pretty comparable.
Mesoraco is just ready where Grandal is probably a year away.
Okay, I just wasn't sure.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Which trade would you prefer?
Wade Davis for Yonder Alonso
Wade Davis, B.J. Upton and Lobaton/Chirinos for Yonder Alonso and Yasmani Grandal
James Shields for Yonder Alonso and Yasmani Grandal
… please only answer from the Rays perspective and don’t think about whether the Reds would do the trade.
A or C
and C mostly on what I think of Grandal
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 11, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
From the choices, A
But I prefer to send Niemann instead of Wade
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 11, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
B and C are overpays.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
I also thought this.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting ...
… this means that B.J. Upton and one of Chirinos/Lobaton for Yasmani Grandal is overpaying. I think that I’d do that.
two proven ML-caliber players for two unproven prospects...no.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Forgive me if this has been said but...
What about Niemann instead of Davis? He costs more and seems more tradeable for us.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
Lone Star thinks this is a bad trade for them.
http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/12/10/2625969/ny-post-reports-bizarre-rangers-rumors
However…trading Mitch Moreland for Wade Davis? Davis is 26, had an ERA of 4.45 in 2011 and 4.07 in 2010, with FIPs of 4.79 and 4.67. He’s a fly ball pitcher, and his K rate dropped to 5.1/9 last season. I’m not a huge Mitch Moreland fan, but that seems to be a lousy trade.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 10:56 AM EST reply actions
hmm
When both teams fans think it’s a bad trade for their side then it’s probably pretty close to fair.
Or 1 side is wrong.
Which when fans contemplate trades is almost always the case.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 11, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Opinion on the offseason
If we add Andrew Bailey, Yonder Alonso and re sign Damon.
Might be expensive for our taste, prospect wise at least but I love that team.
Still think Davis gets us Yonder, and still hope Neimann can instead.
What would you give for Bailey? Imagine the pen of Bailey, Farnsworth, Peralta, McGee, Gomes, Torres and Leuke/Bush/DDLR/Ramos….winner of ST competition.
Under construction
What's the need for Andrew Bailey all about?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
no idea but he would make the back end of the bullpen pretty strong if we could get him from Oakland for a fair price.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 11, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
sure
but I wouldn’t want to give up anything really worthwhile for a closer, and he’s going to be hauling in something worthwhile, I imagine.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.
i wouldn’t want to give up anyone close to the majors for him. if they took Barnese and or Bortnick i’d play ball though.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 11, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
if
If Davis could get us Yonder that deal would have already been done.
Might take the Reds a little while to see that the market for Alonso is not as deep as they had thought.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 11, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Davis for Alonsio might work in your mind
But you aren’t in the discussion.
What Jocketty thinks is what matters here. And for reasons detailed by others here, I don’t think Jocketty agrees with you.
If he did, I think this deal would be done already.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 11, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
If the Rays had a true closer type to offer the deal may have already been done...
…for either Neimannn or Davis(whom ever the Reds prefer). I still think Neimann projects better in that bandbox though. If it’s just Alonso in the deal, I am sure that Jocketty will ask for one more player in return..maybe a young, decent single A kid or maybe a guy like Bush.
For the people saying Davis isn't enough or the Reds would of done it already
It’s Friedman, he’s probably still trying to squeeze Grandal out of them also. I see Davis for Yonder happening. Maybe a blah prospect will have to be added, average at best. Davis has put up respectable numbers in the AL East, hes cheap through 2017 and in the NL Central without Pujols and Fielder, he’s not a #4.
Under construction
Here are my preferences for what should happen to Wade Davis
1. If Shields is traded, be in the Rays rotation, pitches like the 2nd half of 2010 with his new cutter (2.5 BB/9, 6.2 K/9, 3.50 ERA)
2. If Shields stays, be in the Rays bullpen, takes step towards becoming an elite reliever (ala Glen Perkins)
3. Gets traded for an MLB bat like Alonso or LoMo
4. Gets traded for a package like Cahill.
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 12, 2011 4:46 AM EST up reply actions
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