ESPN's Jim Bowden's Proposed Reds/Rays Trade

by StylezMcKoolaid on Dec 15, 2011 3:24 AM EST

"Wade Davis, RHP, and B.J. Upton, CF, to Cincinnati; Yonder Alonso, 1B, and Yasmani Grandal, C, to Tampa Bay: -- The Rays have been searching for inexpensive long-term solutions at first base and catcher. They match up well with the Reds in this proposed four-player trade. The Rays would have Alonso to play first and Grandal to catch. Both players are Florida natives and should hit and be integral parts of the Rays? future. The Reds could put Davis near the top of their rotation after Johnny Cueto while B.J. Upton would give them improvement in terms of speed, power and defense while balancing out their lineup with another right-handed bat. (He or Drew Stubbs would have to move to left field in this scenario, but that would be one awesome defensive outfield.) Of course, the Reds would have to make the deal contingent on signing Upton long-term. The Reds have Devin Mesoraco as their long-term catcher andJoey Votto as their long term first baseman, which allows them to make this deal. A win-win for both franchises." - ESPN's Jim Bowden

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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Pass

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 15, 2011 4:31 AM EST reply actions

I like it on paper..but I would hate to gain a bat (without much experience in league) while losing a bat and defense in Upton.

Evens out. I’m fine with the C platoon too. Rather see Niemann than Davis. I just think its too much and actually lose offense.

by rickdr23 on Dec 15, 2011 6:42 AM EST reply actions

Throw in Drew Stubbs, even with his 205 strikeouts, I think I'll bite.

by Ben Tumbling on Dec 15, 2011 7:01 AM EST reply actions

That's a LOT to give up for a couple of prospects.

Especially when the 1b prospect looks weak and the catcher isn’t ML ready.

this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 15, 2011 7:11 AM EST reply actions

What are you hearing?

@RealNolenBailey

by Hatfield on Dec 15, 2011 8:19 AM EST reply actions

Getting something for Upton instead of nothing when he walks next year is appealing

Maybe have the Reds add a bullpen arm to balance it out?

Use the force, Lueke

by nomoredevil on Dec 15, 2011 9:14 AM EST reply actions

But how easy is it to replace Upton

by Ben Tumbling on Dec 15, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions

...Upton's 4 WAR for the upcoming season?

by Ben Tumbling on Dec 15, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions

Replacing Upton's defense is easy

Jennings moves into the spot. Replacing Upton’s offense is a much easier task.

Use the force, Lueke

by nomoredevil on Dec 15, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions

wait, what?

this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 15, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions

I'm assuming we move Jennings to CF and sign someone to play LF

Jennings replaces Upton’s defense in CF, and the new guy (or Guyer if a move isn’t made) moves into the less-demanding LF position. So I don’t think there would be great drop off in overall defense. Offensively, a full season of Jennings and a decent bat in LF (or Guyer) should be at least be equal to last year’s BJ in CF and 1/2 a season of Jennings and 1/2 of season of the grab bag.

IOW, while I’m not a BJ hater, he is replaceable.

Use the force, Lueke

by nomoredevil on Dec 16, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions

And I'm also assuming Alonso adequately replaces Kotch

Use the force, Lueke

by nomoredevil on Dec 16, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions

Who says we'll get nothing if he walks?

by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions

I'm not up on the new CBA

What is the current return for losing a Type B-ish free agent?

Use the force, Lueke

by nomoredevil on Dec 15, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions

There's no rating system anymore, so you have to basically offer 12 million to your free agents, and not have them accept to get draft picks.

by TBRaysfan009 on Dec 15, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions

I can't wait for all our prospects to become all-stars! Except the ones we trade, I hope they fall apart and die.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 15, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions

Guyer is more than a 4th OF'er, I agree

But if this was Wade and Guyer for Yonder and Grandal, we steal it.

Under construction

by joeybw on Dec 15, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions

I really don't think I would do that.

Alonso is a 2-3 WAR player and Grandal is a catcher (huge risk). Then again, after the Davis discussion by Whelk, I wouldn’t mind dumping him off.

Can’t we pick someone instead of Guyer?

by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions

Canzler?

by budman3 on Dec 15, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions

He doesn't profile well in the NL.

by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions

EJ... but then I think we're giving up too much.

by Snarfalicious on Dec 15, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions

How in the world is EJ too much but Guyer ok?

This I couldn’t understand.

by jtmorgan on Dec 15, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions

I think he might have meant DJ.

by TBRaysfan009 on Dec 15, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions

Oh god, DJ has way too much value.

And after the whole 2011 Service Time Championship thing it would take a lot to get him.

by jtmorgan on Dec 15, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions

I hope he doesn't.

I would think long and hard before trading Jennings for Alonso and Grandal.

by mr. maniac on Dec 16, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions

I wouldn't do it

I think Jennings is the real deal, his 60 or so games last year felt like the real thing, maybe less homers but he is a stud.

Under construction

by joeybw on Dec 16, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions

That would be a tough one.

I’d think long and hard before deciding one way or the other.

by jtmorgan on Dec 16, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions

Sarcasm friends.

by Snarfalicious on Dec 16, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions

if we are trying to win this year

Why would you rather trade upton than guyer, I dont think it is hating to think bj will be better

by Dbullsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

I don't think you make the trade at all if you're trying to win this year

I don’t think that trade improves the team in 2012. Maybe Niemann and Upton for Alonso, Mesoraco and Yorman Rodriguez, or something along those lines. Grandal is probably better long-term, but Mesoraco is pretty good himself and could contribute right away.

I don’t have a problem with the deal on general principle, except that I don’t really like Alonso.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 16, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions

I think we need to trade a SP for a hitter and that's it

If you want a better offense, you simply do not trade Upton, especially in his FA year. I want to see Upton play for a big contract.

Under construction

by joeybw on Dec 16, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions

I just don't think this is as much value

as the Rays would get if they traded Davis and Upton separately.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 15, 2011 5:09 PM EST reply actions

I've been thinking about things like this over the last few days thanks to the comment by FreeZo the other day.

If Alonso and Grandal were in our system there would be no way anybody would be for trading them as a part of getting Shields. Obviously we have other pieces that we would prefer to trade to get things done. But in the end would trading Shields for Alonso, Grandal, +something.

It doesn’t make us better for 2012 which I think is the big hold up here, but if you could spend the approximate $10MM savings on pieces over Shields salary and then Alonso’s instead of a cheaper veteran.

I’m not necessarily advocating trading Shields and in the end we should hold out to see if they blink and would give Mesoraco instead of Grandal to make the team better in 2012.

by jtmorgan on Dec 16, 2011 3:10 PM EST reply actions

I'm not so sure Mesoraco makes that big of an impact in 2012.

A rookie catcher, learning a new staff, with a new set of teammates and concentrating on establishing himself at a position that takes its’ toll physically on offensive numbers, may limit his impact. And he may not be as good a defensive catcher as Grandal. If the Rays could get Grandal for less than Shields(Davis/Neimann) they could probably get by next season with Molina, another experienced catcher, and with Lobaton/Chirinos as depth. Than let Grandal have one more year(or half a season if he progresses rapidly) and bring him in for 2013.

by budman3 on Dec 16, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions

I always get so excited when I see a Marc Topkin tweet...

And then this shit follows:

#Rays name Neil Solondz as pre- and post-game radio host. Had been with Durham and filled in for Herrera on occasion

I want some action and every time I see one of these shitty tweets instead of some sort of rumor or solid lead into a trade, I get more and more inpatient.

by Snarfalicious on Dec 16, 2011 4:10 PM EST reply actions

I really enjoyed listening to Solondz.

by mr. maniac on Dec 17, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed.

Great easy style that is very informative and to the point. I really enjoyed his Bulls radio work.

by ega05me on Dec 17, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions

The Reds dont really need Upton based on what I've read.

They have Stubbs.And if the Rays are looking to be “overwhelmed” in a trade for Upton, what makes this guy think that Grandal and Alonso is enough for Upton and Davis? Thats not overwhelming if its both of them.

No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.

by thedudeofdudes on Dec 16, 2011 11:53 PM EST reply actions

Feel the same way...

I really don’t want to take away Upton from this lineup at this point. He’s frustrating as hell to watch at times, but he does end up producing, and no one is better when he gets on one of his hot streaks. Apparently the Reds aren’t really that interested in what Davis brings to the table, and the asking price for Shields was too high, so maybe these trade talks are at an impasse. I was trying to think of other clubs who could use Davis’ services and could give us something back and came away rather bored with the potential returns.

by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions