Looking At The Rays DH Options
by MrNegative1 on Dec 17, 2011 9:16 AM EST
in Features & Analysis
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While growing up in the 1970's one of my favorite television shows was In Search Of which was hosted by Leonard Nimoy. The show was devoted to analyzing the mysterious and other phenomena in the world . The results of the investigation were often controversial and the shows opening included a disclaimer which stated that "this series presents information based in part on theory and conjecture. And the producer's purpose is to suggest some possible explanations, but not necessarily the only ones, to the mysteries we will examine." Since rumors of any coming transaction seldom emanate out of the Rays front office we spend a lot of time attempting to decipher the mystery of what moves the front office will make.
The Rays will certainly be in search of a DH over the winter as Johnny Damon who was the Rays primary DH in 2011 is currently a free agent. The Rays DHs combined to finish 10th in the league in batting average at .260, 11th with a .322 OBP, 9th with a .402 SLG%, 10th in OPS at .724, and 9th in home runs with 18. The Rays could re-sign Johnny Damon or alternatively, the Rays could look to fill the position with others from the free agent market.
There is a common feeling shared by some that Johnny Damon will return as the Rays DH in 2012, but the Rays do have several other options.Since the Rays work with a limited budget and seldom extend a multi-year contract offers to free agents the list of player the Rays might choose from all have their own flaws. Some have been on decline, others are battling the effects of age, and others are attempting to overcome injury. Of course there are several other candidates that may find themselves in Port Charlotte and trying to work their way up from Durham such as Russell Branyan, Marcus Thames, Dimitri Young, and Ryan Shealy.
The following is a look at some of the free agent DH candidates that could find their way to Tropicana Field in 2012. Included is a brief look at the player and the SB Nation Scouting Report for each player. Below is the last three years of data including plate appearances, wOBA, and fWAR.
Johnny Damon (LHB)
Damon earned 5.25 million dollars and played in 150 games for the Rays in 2011. He started 133 games as the Rays DH. He finished the season with a .743 OPS (.264/.328/.433) with 17 home run, 69 RBI, and 19 stolen bases.
He will be 38 during the 2012 season, is a leading candidate to return to the Rays in 2012 but at a reduced salary.
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Assets
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Possesses a quick bat and is tough to strike out in key situations. Excels at setting the table for the big bats in the lineup. Is one of the game's best clutch hitters.
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Flaws
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Has an arm that's well below average. Wear and tear (along with age) has hurt what used to be a great power/speed combination. His gung-ho style leads to injuries.
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Luke Scott (LHB)
Scott earned 6 million dollars and only played in 64 games for the Baltimore Orioles in 2011 before undergoing season ending shoulder surgery to repair a torn right labrum. The Orioles non-tendered him on December 12th making him a free agent after posting a slash line of .220/.301/.402 with 9 HR.
He will be 34 years old during the 2012 season and durability has not been a concern with Scott in the past. The 2011 season represented the fewest games played and least production since the 2006 season. In 2007 he played in 132 games with an OPS of .855 and 18HR, in 2008 he played in 148 games with an OPS of .807 and 23 HR, in 2009 he played in 128 games with an OPS of .828 and 25 HR, and in 2010 he played in 131 games with an OPS of .902 and 27 HR. Over the past 3 seasons he has played 186 games as a DH, 85 games in LF, and 41 games at 1b.
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Assets
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Owns a streaky bat that can pile up doubles and hit an above-average number of home runs. Can go red-hot for stretches and carry an offense.
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Flaws
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Takes a big cut, resulting in a lot of strikeouts. Is a bit too streaky and generally doesn't bat for a high average. Isn't great with the glove at any position.
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Jason Kubel (LHB)
Kubel earned 5.25 million with the Minnesota Twins in 2011 and like many of the Twins missed time due to injury (lingering foot issue). Overall, Kuble posted a slash line of .273/.332/.434 with 12 HR and 21 doubles in 401 PA.
He will be 30 during the 2012 season and although he can play the OF he is best suited to be an everyday DH. In 2011 he started 48 games in RF, 9 in LF, and 37 at DH.
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Assets
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Shows discipline at the plate and a quick swing that generates power. Is also a very good low-ball hitter. Can play either corner outfield position.
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Flaws
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Has no speed on the bases and struggles with routes in the outfield. Tends to hit much better against right-handers. Is a little injury-prone. |
J.D. Drew (LHB)
Drew earned 14 million during the 2011 season with the Boston Red Sox but missed 62 games due to a left shoulder injury. He played in 81 games in 2011 posting a slash line of .222/.315/.302 and 11 extra base hits in 286 PAs.
He will be 36 years old during the 2012 season and has had trouble remaining healthy over the past few seasons. When healthy he has been able to produce. In 2007 he played in 140 games with11 HR and an OPS of .796, in 2008 he played in 109 games with 19 HR and an OPS of .927, in 2009 he played in 137 games with 24 HR and an OPS of .914, and in 2010 he played in 139 games with 22 HR and an OPS of .793.
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Assets
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A great natural athlete with supreme baseball instincts, he owns a sweet swing with big power and excellent plate patience. Can produce in the clutch. Is also a good fielder with a strong arm and mobility.
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Flaws
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Lacks durability and is injury-prone. Can also be quite streaky and has particular trouble hitting left-handed pitching with consistency. Hasn't quite lived up to the expectations that have come with his talent level.
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Hideki Matsui - (LHB)
Matsui earned 4.25 million during the 2011 season with the Oakland A's and posted a slash line of .251/.321/.379 with 12 HR. He saw limited action in LF where he made 27 starts while he made 108 starts at DH.
He will be 38 years during the 2012 season and will look to rebound from a disappointing 2011 season where he posted career lows in batting average, OBP, and SLG%.
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Assets
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An excellent hitter, he has a great approach at the plate, waits for his pitch, takes a quick, short swing and produces consistently with power. He's also a clutch performer.
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Flaws
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Injury-prone, he has lost range in the field with age. Therefore, he is pretty much reduced to designated hitter duties in the American League.
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Raul Ibanez (LHB)
Ibanez earned 12.2 million during the 2011 season with the Philadelphia Phillies and posted a slash line of .245/.289/.419 with 20 HR and 84 RBI.
He will turn 40 during the 2012 season and may be best suited to be a full time DH. In 2011 he logged 1196.2 innings in LF and had a -21.7 UZR/150 and in 2010 he logged 1294 innings in LF and had a -7.2 UZR/150.
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Assets
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Has good power and a knack for driving in runners when in scoring position. Doesn't strike out as much as you might expect from a slugger of his caliber.
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Flaws
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His power is a lot less prevalent against southpaws. Defensively, he has trouble adjusting to fly balls and isn't quick enough to overcome mistakes.
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Vladimir Guerrero (RHB)
Guerrero earned 7.16 million with the Baltimore Orioles in 2011 and posted a slash line of .290/.317/.416 with 13 HR.
He will be 37 during the 2012 season and after making 2 starts in the OF in 2009, 16 in 2010, and 0 in 2011 it is assumed that Guerrero will be strictly used as a DH in 2012.
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Assets
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A natural hitter, he has a huge frame with a long reach and incredibly quick wrists, helping him turn on balls wherever they're pitched. Has a rocket arm in the outfield. A prolific power hitter who bats for a high average without a lot of strikeouts, his plate coverage is exceptional.
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Flaws
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Age and bad knees have sapped him of his mobility and made him more injury-prone, limiting him mostly to the DH role at this stage of his career. Has always been error-prone in the outfield, especially mental mistakes.
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Andruw Jones (RHB)
Jones earned 1.5 million with the New York Yankees in 2012 and posted a slash line of .247/.356/.495 with 13 HR. Jones was used primarily against left handed pitching (146 of his 222 PAs) and posted a slash line of .286/.356/.495 with 8 HR.
He will be 35 in during the 2012 season and is still able to play the outfield as he made 34 starts in LF and 14 in RF for the Yankees in 2011.
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Assets
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Still is a dangerous power threat, as well as a good hitter versus left-handed pitching in general. Can get red-hot with the bat. Throws well.
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Flaws
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Has lost a lot of range, speed and defensive acumen over time. Is a free swinger, so he can be all or nothing at the plate. Goes into funks. |
Magglio Ordonez (RHB)
Ordonez made 10 million dollars with the Detroit Tigers in 2011 and posted a slash line of .255/.303/.331 and only played in 92 games after only appearing in 84 games in 2011.
He will be 38 during the 2012 season and although he made 68 starts in RF in 2011 he but posted a -20.0 UZR/150.
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Assets
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Has a knack for driving in runs. Doesn't strike out a lot. Consistently hits for an elite batting average. Has a strong right field arm for assists.
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Flaws
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Age has seen his home-run power and base-stealing speed decline. Has become somewhat injury-prone over the years.
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Jorge Posada (SWITCH)
Posada earned 13.1 million with the New York Yankees in 2011 and posted a slash line of .235/.315/.398 with 14 HR. He had the majority of his plate appearances as a right handed bat where he posted a slash line of .269/.348/.466 with all 14 of his home runs.
Posada will be 41 during the 2012 season and may be a strict DH as he has seen his catching duties reduced from 100 games in 2009, to 83 in 2010, to just one game in 2011.
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Assets
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Is a legitimate switch-hitting power bat and a natural leader. In the clutch, he's money at the plate. Could still call a good game.
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Flaws
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Years of overuse behind the plate led to a sharp decline in his catching skills. Has had trouble adjusting to the DH role.
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Gomes earned 1.75 million with the Cincinnati Reds and Washington Nationals in 2011 and posted a slash line of .209/.325/.389 with 14 HR. He mashed LHP and had a slash line of .311/.407/.456 but hit 11 of his HR against RHP where he posted a .167/.292/.362.
Gomes will be 31 during the 2012 season and may be best suited in a platoon role only and may be able to play an occasional game in the outfield. A great piece was written by J.C. Mitchell detailing how Gomes could be a perfect fit as the Lefty Masher with the Rays.
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Assets
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Generates good bat speed with his quick wrists and huge forearms. Can play either corner outfield spot, thanks to a good throwing arm. A hard-nosed player, he hustles and has some leadership ability.
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Flaws
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Is way too streaky. Swings far too freely at the plate, leading to a lot of strikeouts and few walks. Sometimes struggles with the glove in the outfield.
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413 comments
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2 recs |
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Comments
Magglio for me.
I’ll take the chance that he recovers from his foot injury to take on the roll of DH(and maybe get some time in RF if needed and capable). His value should be down because of the foot and an offer of 3 million(maybe some incentives) would be just a good a gamble as Damon/Manny last season. Big RH bat behind Longoria.
Although I still prefer Beltran and pay him 20 million(2 years) to play RF most games and DH the others.
Kubel and Andruw Jones/Jonny Gomes platoon
Kubel might dictate a decent sized contract, but that’s a hell of a platoon. If Kubel is too expensive, I say take a flyer on Scott or bring back Damon on a BIG discount. But I think Jones is tremendously undervalued as he obviously destroys left handed pitching
Brandon Guyer also destroys left-handed pitching.
I’m just not liking Jones, he’s old, and his steroids have probably worn away by now.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 17, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
between S-Rod, Canzler,and Guyer, the Rays appear to be set in terms of lefty-mashers
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 19, 2011 6:58 AM EST up reply actions
Kubel could be a bargain now as he's probably looking at 3 years and 15-18 million.
He was my first choice at the beginning of the winter and the only concern is that he is another left handed bat in the order who sometimes struggles against lefties.
I think less than that
really prefer Kubel to the field given his splits vs. right-handers (and the fact that the Rays have lefty-mashers aplenty).
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a bit perturbed that Willingham signed for 3/$21 million, and it wasn't with the Rays
That’s a reasonable contract for this team, and he’s probably going to be easily worth it.
Out of this group, I honestly have no idea who I’d rather have. Maybe Gomes, but probably just because I liked him when he was here before. He does have good power potential, though. JD Drew would be a good pick, also.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 10:10 AM EST reply actions
He must have loved Minny because he should have gotten close to what Cuddyer got from the Rox.
Appears the Rays are not in the market for a RH hitting LF’er this winter.
I'm guessing this was a factor
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
because Willingham has been consistently good over a longer stretch than Burrell?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I'm a big Hammer fan
But this org has never given a third guaranteed year in free agency. I don’t think this was a dollars thing as much as the guaranteed year. I’m guessing the offer was 2 yrs with a team option for a 3rd for ballpark money, but Willingham wanted a guaranteed 3rd year.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I like the look of Jones
right handed bat, will come cheaply and can play OF every so often.
Also traded Damon for him and Martin on the show and he hit 2 HR’s in his first game
Do you use The Show as your scouting reports?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
lol
just………..lol
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 17, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
The Show part may be LOL but
Jones can still play some OF. In 1729 innings over the past three seasons he has a +7.7 UZR in the corner spots. I wouldn’t mind Jones at all. Give him some 1B duty as well.
Yeah, the "lol" was for The Show,
but I still hope we can do better than Jones for a DH…
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 17, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be fine with him as a part time player who mashes LHP
But isn’t that what Guyer is? I’d much rather have Guyer as that player than Jones.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 18, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
FREE GUYER
He should play every day!
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 18, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Well, it's what Guyer could be. We don't know for sure if it is what he is.
I am torn on this one. I do not want Guyer sitting in AAA but I want a guy I know will crush LHP.
Johnny Damon for the price is fine with me
If we get that middle of the order bat at 1B, this team is ready to roll
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Who do you want at 1b?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
That would be nice.
I hope he gets healthy.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
It would be very interesting if we signed Carlos Pena.
We would probably have to be a bit cheaper after that, maybe Davis for Grandal, and a cheaper DH like Jonny Gomes.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
Johnny Gomes as an everyday DH is laughable. If i may join the world of WAR
y’all live in his is 2.6 TOTAL for the last 3 seasons
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I was actually thinking some kind of platoon
with Guyer. But this is only if we spend some money on Pena.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 17, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Or we could just put Joyce at DH, Guyer in RF
And pay Pena what Boras wants. No, never do that. Something close to what Boras wants. No… just smile the whole time, he likes happiness.
Under construction
His horrible defense brings down his WAR
at DH, he won’t have that penalty, will he?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I love Gomes and if it was only his defense, I would want him since it's DH
But hasn’t he always sucked against righties?
Under construction
Yeah, he's below average.
Sometimes really bad.
But his defense is worse. He’s averaging a -12.0 UZR/150 in over 2000 innings in the OF over the past 3 seasons. Yikes.
He also racked up -2.6 dWAR on bref.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know who I really want, I already changed my mind
Voted for Kubel, now I’m wondering if Gomes moon shots, Jones actual lefty mashing (hes no Kapler, he actually mashes them) or simply having Damon back would be better. Damon did have a underrated year IMO.
If we can only get Logan Morrision or Carlos Pena for 1B. Maybe Morales but who knows if he will ever even play.
Kubel stuggles with lefties, spends a lot of time on the DL, Jones just swings at everything, Gomes can’t hit righties and good god, if we have to see him in the field at all. I probably just resign Damon and get myself a new 1B, don’t just bring back Damon and Kotchman.
Under construction
Hey um, another idea
Carlos Beltran
He might cost more than the others but if he needs to play the OF a few games here or there to give guys a day off or it’s interleague, he wont embarrass himself. He can hit both lefties and righties and still has a very good bat.
Under construction
Him and Damon, YES
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 17, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
lol that's 2 DH's
I wonder what we will do at 1B if we spend money on a DH. Kotchman I’m guessing…..
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 17, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
I just want Logan Morrison
Then I don’t care if it’s Damon/Kubel or check books are opened a little more for Beltran.
Under construction
I'm looking at STL, TOR, or TEX for Beltran
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
lots on twitter and elsewhere lately about the trade market chatter picking up
we’re getting closer and closer to January and then catchers and pitchers reporting isn’t that far away. I still think the Rays make a good move and get a good return for Davis (if we can’t get Logan Morrison, though ESPN’s Olney said that was still very much a possibility since the Marlins like Davis, I’d like to see if we can pry Salvador Perez away from KC for Davis).
I hope the Rays are one of the two mystery teams looking at Beltran. I’m either hoping for him or a Pena reunion.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 17, 2011 11:11 AM EST reply actions
I think people got confused there
He actually was answering LoMo
LoMo asked Buster “hey are we getting any more players?”
And Buster said “they want a Davis type” and at the end it said @LoMoMarlins
I think that might of confused people including me into thinking Olney said we are talking about a Davis/Morrison swap.
Under construction
Remember my Andrew Bailey "pipe dream"?
He’s having the same dream. As are many writers that are actually known if you simply search for hot stove or andrew bailey on twitter. Red Sox, Reds and Rays want him. Sox want Madson more and I don’t know if the Reds are ever going to move those prospects. Keep the pipe dream alive.
Under construction
Manny please
I’d take manny back over any of these guys. He was a bargain last year at 2 mil (even though it didnt work out) I still think he’d be a steal at 2 mil this year.
by pcbredemeier on Dec 17, 2011 12:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
isn't he going to be suspended?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he'd have to serve a 100 day suspension.
Not really worth it for the last 1/3 of the season.
†††If you love Dan Johnson and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
Well they let Volquez serve his suspension while he was on the DL
Why even have Manny miss 50????
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Luke Scott
A good friend of mine got to interview him for an SRQ paper and he repeatedly bemoaned the fact that Baltimore was having him DH. He’s looking to rebuild his value, which DHing would be detrimental to (in his view). Then again, unless some team wants him to field, he may be forced into it.
"It was a little weird seeing Ashley running at me with a closed fist. That was a scary look."-Matt Moore
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 17, 2011 12:39 PM EST reply actions
It was his throwing shoulder he had surgery on
That’s not going to help his story at all. He lives about 2 hrs north of the bay area so if he wants to come closer to home, he has his chance
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Wonder if he could still play 1st though for us (#Kotchplacement)
I can see an Inside the Rays w/ him and Davis/Nieman solving our spring training site’s boar problem.
"It was a little weird seeing Ashley running at me with a closed fist. That was a scary look."-Matt Moore
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 17, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Take Alonso off the board -- he's going to Padres in a package for Latos
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
Rosenthal has said Latos to Cincy, Alonso & _______ to the Padres
Good on Cincy for making that move
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Oh god the Padres are dumb unless they got a lot more back
Trade for Rizzo?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Goldstein put out his Padres rankings the other day
Had Rizzo 6th
The Good: Rizzo is a classic first-baseman with the ability to hit for both average and power. He works the count well, waits for pitches to drive, and can crush mistakes. He’s worked hard on his defense and projects to be average there.
The Bad: Despite his numbers, there are some major weaknesses in Rizzo’s game. His power nearly disappears against left-handers, and he has a hitch in his swing that often leaves him behind good velocity. Despite his natural strength, he has a tendency to get pull-happy and hunts for power, which led to some silly swings against breaking balls in the big leagues.
Ephemera: When batting from the seventh inning on for the Padres, Rizzo went 3-for-45 (.067) with 21 strikeouts.
Perfect World Projection: Good everyday first baseman.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take it.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Oh wow
That should help play up Alonso’s fringe first-basemen power
"It was a little weird seeing Ashley running at me with a closed fist. That was a scary look."-Matt Moore
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 17, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Rizzo like Kyle Blanks before him
Rizzo can’t play the OF and Alonso can’t either. This should be fun
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Even better, let's get Blanks.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I don't get this
Blanks in LF, Rizzo at 1B and they trade their 23 year old ace for a deal centered around Yonder Alonso? Hope for their sake they were able to get Meseroco.
Under construction
Byrnes is the GM now so not the same relationship AF & Hoyer had, but Padres don't exactly have the SP depth to make this deal
without a 2nd one in place.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Pick one
RIzzo, Blanks, Alonso
Unless they want their corner OF’ers to be Alonso and Blanks, one of them is getting traded. Fits us nicely, they have 3 1B and need a SP now.
Under construction
Rizzo
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I've always liked Blanks
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder who has a ton of SP depth
for those cheap Padres…
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
On their own depth chart..
They have Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland as their top pitchers, but both barely have AA experience & were the return in the Mike Adams deal w/ Texas. I just can’t imagine they made this deal in a vacuum because they already were having issues with Blanks/Rizzo
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
and they have to play Jesus Guzman at 1st already given what he did last year
They moved Cunningham for Burns yesterday which also makes them thin in the OF
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, well, first of all, they probably got Grandal and another peice
But this definatley seems like part 1 of 2 trades. 3 1B and this makes Clayton Richard the ace I believe.
Under construction
Yeah, it wouldn't make sense unless they had a plan.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
SD is getting Volquez too
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Turrible.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/reds-acquire-mat-latos-for-alonso-others.html
and so ends the Alonso dream as a Ray.
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
REJOICE! REJOICE!
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
should I cite my sources?
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
It's gonna make Alonso look awful
Petco as a home park? If they keep him he will top out at 10 homers.
Under construction
How much worse is Petco for power than the Trop?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
from 2008-2010
Petco has suppressed offense across the board & has been very tough on LH power
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not even sure if there's a way to answer my question
but that definitely doesn’t do it.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
HR
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
limited data
but 3 of the four balls Rizzo hit to the track last season could have been gone in Tropicana
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
How about Davis for Rizzo?
Much rather send Niemann but the budget minded Padres won’t do that
Troy Renck reporting Edinson Volquez in the deal
He’s an arb2 pitcher so this deal really makes little sense
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
The Reds are going to have a good holiday.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Wuuuuuuut
#Padres acquire RHPs Edinson Volquez & Brad Boxberger, INF Yonder Alonso and C Yasmani Grandal from #Reds for RHP Mat Latos via official Padres Twitter.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
They're flipping Alonso to Rays?
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
If that's what the Rays turned down for a Shields, I'm shaking my head
That’s a sweet haul
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
it's probably fair value
But I’m okay with passing on it. Alonso is the only guy who helps in 2012 (and we’ve discussed him at length; I like him, but there are clear concerns). Boxberger is a relief prospect. Volquez has zero chance of regaining his 2008 form in the AL East.
I wouldn’t have been unhappy with this haul for Shields, but it doesn’t scream out “sell!” to me.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
depends on if they can spin off Volquez
I think he’s worthless in the ALE
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I saw
Unless, he’s about to make a 2nd trade, he still traded his 23 year old ace for a 3rd….actual 4th 1B, Guzman was their best hitter last year.
Under construction
Still makes you wonder what will they do with Rizzo
and Alonso might struggle in Petco.
I think Alonso will be flipped
Rizzo will be at 1B, Blanks in LF and Guzman screwed over after doing so well.
Under construction
staff ace for an innings guy, an everyday C, 1B, & a power reliever
That’s fair value if you’re worried about Latos’ costs moving forward the way he’s pitched. Or, they have character concerns again.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Hasn't he lost velocity in the last 2 seasons too?
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Thank God Yonder is gone--so tired of this Casey Kotchman wanna be being viewed as the second coming in here
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Amen, brotha!
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
so we need to sign Kotch and Damon for your prediction to come true, correct?
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Gotta think this was offered for Shields
Well, Padres have 1B overload, can still fix that hole for Davis or Neimann instead of losing Shields.
Under construction
Hole is fixed with Volquez
But the bottom of their rotation needs help.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Why? Latos has more upside than Shields and is younger.
Even with Shields last year, you would think Latos would have more value right? Or am I wrong here?
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
superficial numbers
you’re talking about pitching in the best pitcher’s park in the NL — b-r grades out Latos’s 2011 as a 102 ERA+, for example, or basically league-average. So while I think you can make an argument for Latos, you can make one for Shields as well.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Latos has no home/road splits
home/road splits are nearly identical. .224/.286/.351 in 244 road innings, .229/.287/.348 in 185 home innings
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that argument should be made using any variant of ERA, however.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Rizzo could be had
The Padres won’t want Niemann or Davis. Would Archer work?
I'm down.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Whats the deal with Jesus Guzman?
5’10 first baseman who was the best hitter on SD last year. How do they not play him? He would be good in a Willy Aybar, depth role for us.
SD will have to shuffle the deck chairs around. AF should be all over the options.
I have no idea.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
How about Colome.
For some reason, people still value him.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
That would be funny
Since Rizzo was the big piece in return for Gonzalez.
I’d do that.
Under construction
Not much would make me happier than seeing a former Sox prospect help the Rays keep the Sox from the playoffs.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
and Casey Kelly play the Ian Kennedy role is SD
If the Yanks kept him instead of Hughes and Joba they would have had another parade in Nov.
You don't think Davis would work in Petco?
Has a team friendly contract long term. Put a good defense out there along with a decent offense and Davis will be fine in Petco.
He would fit perfectly in Petco
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of his home run issues would disappear there
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
too bad that wasn't his only issue.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Please, Andrew, pick up that damn phone and call them.
Rival exec on #Padres’ next move: “Trade Rizzo. No doubt.” #MLB
Under construction
He's too busy preparing for the International draft meeting in January.
Yeah he needs to act now. I bet the Indians, Pirates, Nationals, Orioles have already made offers in the last hour. None of the clubs mentioned have what the Rays can offer.
I know he is a righty and his power may be suppressed in the Trop,
but I still prefer Blanks.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
giggity
Some wondering if Rizzo could be part of package to #Rays for Wade Davis. Makes perfect sense. Davis similar to Latos in service time.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
BEST CHRISTMAS VACATION EVER!
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Rizzo AND others?
jonmorosi Jon Morosi
If #Padres can flip Rizzo (and others) for Wade Davis, they will have procured a replacement for Latos. That would be pretty smooth.
If this happens, I will buy an authentic Crawford Red Sox jersey. I’ll burn it but I will pay for it.
Under construction
Will need video of burning Crawford jersey
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Watch AF get Rizzo and a guy like Jaff Decker some how.
That would be awesome!
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't Decker another S-Rod?
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
?
Decker is a left-handed outfielder. S-Rod is a right-handed infielder.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Ability wise, not caring position
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
still not really comparable
S-Rod is a lefty-masher who can play short. Decker is a power prospect with massive contact issues at AA. I just don’t get the comparison at all.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
And Decker also walks more,
is younger, and has a very good offensive upside. His D isnt that good and it is probably unlikely the Rays get him though.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
he does kinda fit the Rays thing though,
He is a prospect who has disapointted recently but is still young and has upside.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's a good thought
future DH, all ceiling at this point
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind getting another servicable MLer. Many of our top prospects will never get near as much playing time as SRod has had the past couple years.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
is Davis to much to give?
Imagine the leverage if we can get a young power hitting DH without moving Davis or Niemann?
How does Davis in the pen, Damon back at DH, Rizzo at first sound? Hold onto Niemann until teams get desperate and we get a steal.
I guess Archer
Personally, I have no problem trading Davis or Neimann for Rizzo at all.
Under construction
maybe it's Shiny (semi-)New Toy syndrome
but I think Archer’s ceiling at this point probably exceeds Davis/Niemann, so yeah, I’d rather move one of those guys.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I really don’t know about Archer.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
plus or better curve, good velo, and in an organization that develops changeups. If he gets his control under control, I see him as having top-of-the-rotation upside with that repertoire.
That’s not to downplay the value Niemann and Davis have — and if it were any other organization, I would rather part with Archer. But I guess I see Archer as having more upside, and his downside (a move to the bullpen) has more upside than putting, say, Wade Davis in the bullpen.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Appearently, he might be
That does say Rizzo AND others for Davis
Damnit, get it done, Friedman.
Under construction
bouncing around his room in his rays jammies
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
I just want Friedman to get something awesome done again
I need another fix, it’s been over a week since the Moore deal.
Under construction
Davis is the name everyone is throwing around but...
Davis is an AF guy. He liked him enough to sign him long term. I feel Davis is going to the pen while Niemann and possibly one of Colome ,Archer, Torres or others are moved. Part of the win it this year approach. Davis has shown he can win in pressure games vs NY and Boston.
No
They want Fielder. Lind is there already. What pitcher at the level Davis is would the Jays give up?
Yonder Alonso for Andrew Bailey?
Thought of that but the A’s are the other team with 27 1B.
Under construction
They got another closer prospect from the Reds just now
And I was just reading that Latos for Alonso, Grandal and Volquez was agreed on but they needed to trade Boxberger for the Padres to agree.
Under construction
I'm going to have to assume that the Reds would've offered the same package to us for Shields
Would you have taken Alonso/Grandal/throw ins for Shields?
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 2:17 PM EST reply actions
see above
first, I think Boxberger is a legit power reliever prospect, not just a throw-in, although I don’t see Edinson Volquez having any ability to recreate 2008 in the ALE.
Anyway: I would have been satisfied at this return for Shields, but I’m equally happy that the Rays passed on it. I think we’ve pegged the dynamic here pretty directly; Reds would have traded Alonso and Grandal for Shields, Rays were holding out for Mesoraco.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
you're making a big assumption that the Rays "passed on it"
people always saying things like this on the boards, you have no clue what was offered at all. Latos could have been more highly coveted by the Reds and we might have only been offered Yonder + Grandal. You just never know.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
no.
but boxberger and volquez are not throwins, one is a hard throwing RP prospect that was expected to break camp with the Reds in 2012, and Volquez is a few years removed from pitching in the ASG.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Heh, heh
A Padres executive tells Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com that Anthony Rizzo will be moved this offseason following the club’s trade for Yonder Alonso.
Source: Ken Rosenthal on Twitter
And quiet, I should be excited about this.
Under construction
and thats why they are the Padres
let everyone know Rizzo has no place to play to lower the offers.
Not that Yonder is much better
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
oh yeah, I don't really get this from the Padres' perspective
you trade your top commodity without getting a single A-level prospect in return, and now you have 4 first basemen on your 25-man roster. In one of the most spacious ballparks in the NL.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yonder's defense is awful
The padres emphasize defense. I’m not sure if Josh Byrnes instead of Jed Hoyer would change this, but I don’t think it would have a significant impact given that their FO is mostly the same
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Dusty Baker says no
Padres pitchers might kill their manager if Alonso plays LF in Petco.
Only 18 hits for Rizzo in 128 AB's in sss
10 of those 18 hits were for extra bases
When will Collette blow up Rizzo's inflated PCL power as he did Sean-Rod?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
He only played in the PCL less than one season
was a Red Sox prospect.
oh god
don’t fall into the trap of responding to SF1
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
There's still a very large chance we don't even get Rizzo
but sternfan is ready to hate him for not being Kotchman
Under construction
This reads like a joke about the mentally challenged
If so, it ends now
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
There should be lines
but sternfan1 has gone through them so many times, he doesn’t even know that he crossed it.
Under construction
more likely he's referring to joey's Rays batting helmet that he wears whenever posting on DRB
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
I deserve the sleeping jokes
These personal attacks are a little too far. Especially since it came from me wanting Rizzo.
Under construction
how is that a personal attack saying that you're a fanboy?
that would be like saying “RGLASS LOVES SEA LIFE ON HIS SHORTS” is a personal attack.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
sleep on it
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
why? because PCL stats are treated equally?
and he played there all of his ’11 AAA season
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
He only played 93 games in the PCL not a full season
Showed power as a 20 years old in the Eastern League with 50 extra base hits
i know all that--my post was directed at Collette who diminished SeanRod because he played in the PCL
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I should just be a bad analyst and treat power numbers in all environments equally
My bad – thanks for the feedback
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
That's Cason to you, sir
besides, I can’t recall not mentioning his PCL numbers since that was a main concern at the time of acquisition
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
It would concern me greatly if someone saw his 1056 OPS in AAA last season and projected greatness for him, yes
I’d take him for Davis in a heartbeat
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
He drew lots of walks and had BABIP problems
But the strikeouts were insane
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
The upside to Rizzo is much higher to Davis
I wouldn’t mind Rizzo playing a year in Durham if the Rays can find another option for 1B in 2012.
SERVICE TIME CHAMPS!!!!!
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
At the very least, the Reds just made a much better market for SP's
Scared to see what Gio would cost now.
Under construction
...?
@JonHeymanCBS
Jon Heyman
Some expect padres to flip alonso. They have good 1b prospect (rizzo). And says 1 nl exec: “no way alonso can play LF in petco.”
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
I'd prefer Rizzo to Alonso if I were the pads
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
F that
Get Rizzo or Blanks before Alonso.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Well that was expected
you love Alonso.So much to where I think you’re lying when you say you like Rizzo the best,
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
no more personal attacks on Joey!
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Host of MLB Network Inside Pitch
The #Padres could probably flip Alonso to #Rays for SP if they want – having Rizzo and Yonder gives Josh Byrnes some options
Under construction
no f*cking way I would be happy with davis for alonso straight up.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
I would trade either of Archer or Torres for Alonso
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
that would be more acceptable.
prospect for prospect. not someone signed to a cost-controlled deal who has SP experience in the ALE.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Now this makes the most sense
Per Bowden on twitter
I talked with Josh Byrnes he told me Alonso will play 1B & the plan is for Rizzo to continue his development at AAA. Trade also a possiblity
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
how does that make sense?
If they keep Rizzo in AAA they will just have to revisit this same issue again when they feel he is ready. Rizzo has already proven he can mash in AAA and with Alonso around, there is no way would be able to get any ABs in the majors. Further, since he will not be able to show he has made adjustments to MLB pitching, his stock will never get any higher. He will just continue to hit at AAA.
My point being it makes sense to trade one of Alonso or Rizzo rather than have Rizzo continue to “develop” in AAA.
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Just because he mashes in AAA doesn't mean he doesn't have things to work on.
He struck out at 22% in AAA. That translated to 30% in the majors.
SSS.
Translated doesn’t seem like the right word.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
21%ish while being as young as he is doesn't really count as issues to me.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I guess he does have ago on his side.
But I would keep him in Durham for at least a year. That means the Rays would still have to get another 1B.
a good start would be hitting LHP
9 XBH in 99 PA vs them last season
22 XBH in 179 PA vs them in 2010
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
1 per 11 seems fine.
550 PA, 50 xbh
And being PA, not AB, makes it more than fine to me.
The 1 per 6 in 2010 seems amazing.
Am I totally offbase here?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
consider last year was in PCL/Tucson
his SLG% vs LHP has been sub .400 in the previous 2 & more neutral stops
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
The Rays have no intention of trading Garza, Hellickson can continue to develop in AAA
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
thats what a smart GM should say..
Rizzo is not this GM’s guy, Hoyer was. Lets hope Hoyer and Theo don’t jump into the mix to bring Rizzo to Chicago leaving Fielder and Pena in the cold.
Who do the cubs even have to trade?
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
he would be NL Cy Young in Petco
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Which would you guys rather have between Rizzo and Alonso?
It also seems like the Padres can easily make the same decision for themselves and not give other teams an option. I dont see why they wouldnt want to be patient with Rizzo since Guzman had such a great year last year. They were probably just trying to get max value back in the trade regardless of how well the pieces fit.
Between Alonso and Rizzo, they definitely seem like two different type of players. Alonso is going to strike out less but hit for less power with a higher BA, while rizzo will rack up the k’s with solid power (20+) and a respectable BA. Both guys know how to take a walk. Sickles said that a lot of Rizzo’s K’s are of the BJ Upton variety, aka trying to take every close pitch to work a walk.
I like Rizzo more longterm but I think Alonso might make a quicker adjustment to the bigs. So would the Rays be ok waiting for Rizzo in AAA or would they rather have a guy with a lowe ceiling that could contribute right now?
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 2:56 PM EST reply actions
You like Yonder? Resign Kotch for 2 years and you'll get better defense w/o giving up anything
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I could see the Rays resign Kotch but still trade for Rizzo sending him to AAA
only 22 and he still needs to work at the plate.
all I want is value for Davis
They have to move someone so even if the player acquired stays in AAA in 2012 it makes sense. Options are available on the FA market for 1B.
I don't think it will even require Davis to be honest
Right now, they would have Rizzo in AAA, Blanks in LF and either they put Yonder in the other corner or bench Guzman. They gotta trade one of them.
Under construction
The Rays have to move one of Davis or Niemann
Davis is the most likely to moved
With Rizzo I would want a righty hitting first baseman
Which brings me back to an old target …Billy Butler. Get Rizzo and Butler. Stick Rizzo in Durham. One more year out of Damon at DH. Then in 2012 you have Rizzo at first, Butler at DH and Joyce in right.
How would you get both?
Davis for Rizzo yeah. For Butler?
Davis for Butler
young pitcher(s) for Rizzo.
I doubt the Royals want Davis
they have better options already
Not really
Hockevar had a good year but Chen and Sanchez arent going to be around long term. Who knows how or if Crow transitions to the rotation. And we saw how their first top pitching prospect had a tough rookie year.
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
valid point
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
you honestly don't see the difference with that green line
shifted way to the left?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
factor in salary
Butler is due $1M more each season over the next 3 & is just as useless in the field as Willingham but Josh comes w/o giving up someone in a trade
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Plus Willingham won't kill you on the basepads
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
but the Rays weren't going to go 3 years on a 33-year-old DH
whereas they might on a 25-year-old DH/1B
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 18, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Let's not fool ourselves here.
There shouldn’t be a 1b next to DH there.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 18, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
-3.2 UZR/150 as an everyday 1B in 2010
incidentally, Carlos Pena’s UZR/150 that year was -3.7.
Butler isn’t a good 1B, obviously, but he’s not as bad as, say, Prince Fielder or Ryan Howard or Adam Dunn.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 18, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Pena's ridiculously overrated for a couple good years.
And you have to use 3 seasons of UZR to get the picture on a player’s defense, right? I doubt Butler ever puts up that many games at 1b for the rest of his career.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 18, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
we can only compare with the data we have
I mean, I think we agree on the basics. Obviously Butler isn’t a good defensive 1B. I’m just pointing out that running Butler out to 1B isn’t preposterous on the order of, say, running Russ Canzler out there at 1B.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 19, 2011 7:00 AM EST up reply actions
I like Alonso for what he is
I still think he has more power than Kotchman because of his wrist issue he was dealing with. That being said, I still dont see him as a major power threat. I still think Rizzo has more upside longterm. My point is that Alonso has a better chance at contributing at the major league level quicker and for a playoff team like the rays, that might be more important.
Unless of course you sign Kotch for a year and let Rizzo go to Durham….
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
if we got Rizzo I would want to put him there now and see what he can do.
was he a bonus baby?
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
You think Maddon has Joyce avoid leftys?
We would have SRod play alot at first or find a righty hitter to sub for Rizz.
Maddon seems much more inclined to letting Joyce play more full time in 2012
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
You have to play S Rod vs lefties somewhere.
if you want Joyce does Damon sit?
S-Rod plays SS, Joyce plays RF and Damon is DH
Am I forgetting someone? Zo will be at 2B pretty much all year.
Under construction
Could be SRod at SS
but i’m in the play Brignac 140 games at SS crowd. I think he will be our most improved player providing elite D.
Would Andruw Jones
facilitate this option?
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Dec 17, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
At the very least a platoon mate
He made some great strides last year against lefties in AAA but hasnt faced major league quality lefties yet. If he did start the year in the majors, I think it would make for a much easier tranistion. Maybe he could platoon with Canzler?
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
The only reason im not high on Smoak
He has had ample opportunities to adjust to MLB pitching and just hasnt turned the corner. At least the other guys are unknowns at this point, but Smoak is becoming very close to being a MLB bust. Not that he cant be a good mlb player, but not the elite hitter everyone thought he would be. Used to be considered the next Tex.
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
Ike Davis is a beast. I’d probably have him tied with Morrison at the top. And then Rizzo, Duda, Alonso. I can’t believe Rizzo is last on this list.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Mets already said they wouldnt include Ike Davis in a trade for Gio Gonzalez
So I doubt the Rays could get him….
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Talk about overvaluing Davis
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 17, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Its not like they dont have a replacement in house (Murphy and Duda)
Does Wade Davis and Reid Brignac for Ike Davis sound too crazy? Maybe another prospect on our side?
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Rays aren't selling low on Brignac
he’s one season away from having Elvis Andrus+ value.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Even if you think he can match Elvis's bat (which is a bit of a stretch, but theoretically possible) he won't be able to match Elvis's basepad/field value
The dude averages +13 runs a season via fielding and baserunning.
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
you're way overrating Elvis's bat
quick and dirty, I know, but Andrus’s OPS+: 82, 72, 87.
Brignac’s OPS+: 95, 92, 29
Andrus is obviously a faster baserunner (though he’d be better with smarter coaching), but I think the two are equivalent defensively; that’s why I’ve made the comp.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'd take Andrus over Brignac for defense
Not a huge gap but I think he’s more polished
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 17, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
OPS+ is misleading because Brignac has a disproportionate amount of power while Andrus walks far more
wRC+s peg Andrus at 86 for his career, Brignac is at 61 (not to mention Brignac has been sheltered from LHP for the most part)
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
wRC+ still proves my point
Andrus’s career wRC+: 86
Brignac: 91 (2009), 88 (2010)
Of course Brignac’s career wRC+ (and OPS+) is lower; his 2011 was cover-your-eyes putrid. But if you take 2009-2010 as Brignac’s true talent level versus righthanders, then you essentially have an Elvis Andrus-plus level bat with elite defense. That’s been my argument all along.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 18, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
To be fair, FG has Briggy as a positive baserunner.
But Andrus seems elite.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 18, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
obviously Andrus >>> Brignac in terms of basestealing speed
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 18, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, definitely
just pointing out that Briggy isn’t a lump of poo when he actually does get on base,
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 18, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
You like duda that much?
I like duda but dont know how high his ceiling is. I have major man crush on Ike Davis and would rank him at the top. His glove and offense combination is awesome. I keep dreaming a Davis and Brignac swap would work well for the Mets but I think they are fully intent on keeping Davis. David Wright will be there one more year at the most and I dont know if they could stand to lose both.
I still think Morrison’s value is waaaay to high due to his popularity.
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'd go
1. Morrison
2. Davis
3. Smoak
4. Rizzo
5. Alonso
[gap]
6. Duda
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 17, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
many possiblities
Today was a good day for TB. We may be in postion to get a future first baseman cheaper and the value of our Vet pitching trade chips has gone up.
I say we ignore all this (and yes I know my excitement over Rizzo/Yonder)
and we find a way to get Morrison.
Under construction
Trading for a Alonso or Rizzo
I think would also hinge on us getting an established middle of the order bat as well. Meaning not another young player who is still developing or a veteran trying to bounce back. The Rays cant count on a young guy like Alonso or Rizzo being a middle of the order bat so maybe someone like a Quentin or maybe even what bobr suggested in trading for Konerko. That way we strengthen out line up but dont necessarily weaken the middle of the line up at the same time. Could still take a gamble on Morales though..maybe
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 3:36 PM EST reply actions
One year ago today the Rays and Padres made a trade
Would be fitting if Friedman gets one of their 25 1B today.
Under construction
i would rather trade niemann than davis
But if Davis can land rizzo and others than do it.
by Dbullsfan on Dec 17, 2011 4:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe we can do the same as last year
Where it was reported we got Russell and Ramos for Bartlett and then all the sudden, we got Brandon Gomes and Figueroa also. That was, by the way, 1 year ago today.
Under construction
I feel the same...
I like Rizzo a lot actually. I don’t know if anyone is really too attracted to Niems – he’s ugly as shit and kind of just meh.
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
better than meh
arguably a number 2 or 3 starter when he is healthy…thats the issue though
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly... and his stretches where he's either injured or pitching injured or just pitching bad...
Niems on top of his game is undoubtedly good, but he’s just so up and down.
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Niemann is better right now than Davis
Which is why I want to keep him, we want to win now, now a year or two when Davis figures it out. Any team that trades for Davis is making a 6 year investment, something the Mets or Padres should want to do
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with this.
I would rather trade Davis than Niemann because Niemann is better for the win now approach and also because Davis has more value in a trade thanks to his contract.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Crazy Idea...
What about a three way trade in which we would be getting Ike Davis and Mets would be getting Anthony Rizzo?
Maybe…
Padres get: W. Davis
Mets get: Rizzo and Archer/Colome
Rays get: I. Davis
Something along those lines?
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 4:07 PM EST reply actions
We should figure out a way to get Ike Davis and Rizzo... BAM
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
ehhh
Id love that but not going to happen. Rays wouldnt make a young hitter like Rizzo a full time DH. Not their MO. DH is for veterans with negative defensive value
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Konerko and Rizzo/Davis would be rad...
I’d suggest Quentin but apparently he hates DH’ing
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Konerko would be huge
Just getting Rizzo and resigning Damon probably doesn’t improve our offense much for this year.
Under construction
If we got a Konerko and a Rizzo
I would definitely be ok with signing a stop gap 1B or just platooning Rizzo
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I just kind of wonder what the White Sox would want...
Because to make moves for 2 guys of that value might take a bit.
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
White Sox are trying to fire sale
It wouldn’t take as much as he’s worth and man, would he be awesome behind Longoria.
Under construction
Yup he would be...
Finally a real threat behind Longo… I would love to see us be able to throw Davis in there for some lefty power presence as well.
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Wade, Archer and Colome for Ike Davis. It does seem kinda steep.
If that’s the price, we might have to just go with Rizzo
Under construction
Rather go for Rizzo in that situation.
I feel like that’s too steep for sure.
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Thats Archer or Colome
Maybe substitute a couple C+ prospects instead of those two…maybe Bortnick and Barnese?
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 17, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Wade Davis and Alexander Colome for Ike Davis
Hmmm.
I think I’d do it. He puts up good numbers in a stadium almost as bad for hitters as Petco.
Under construction
I'd give that deal a chance...
Wade Davis could boom into a great pitcher, and Colome as well, but Ike Davis would give this team a young, high-upside hitter with great power. We’ve wanted a power-hitting LH bat, and Ike Davis fits that perfectly…
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like Ike Davis is being overrated somewhat
His power breakout this year was in limited sample size and the only real previous showing of big power he had was in a fairly short (55 games) stint in AA. I guess the big thing with him is that even though he’s never “failed to hit” he’s also never lit up the word. Actually that’s pretty valuable now that I think about it. Maybe he isn’t overrated
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 4:44 PM EST reply actions
The only year he did NOT have good power was 2008.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Always nice to log on & find a big trade happen
Curious to see how this changes the trade market. Latos getting traded was a bit of a surprise.
Just swap out Reds for Padres now I guess on the trade market.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
Padres fans must of celebrated too much
At least the one on mlbtraderumors. They want Hak Ju Lee for Kyle Blanks….
Under construction
Right now, who would be down for resigning Damon and Kotchman and putting Neimann/Davis in the pen?
I still hope and think we will trade for a 1B, maybe still Alonso, maybe a probably now pissed off Rizzo. As far as DH, I wouldn’t mind Damon back at all.
A full year of Moore, Jennings and all the young guys with 1 year more of experience. Would it be the worst thing if it turns out the only FA’s we lose are Juan Cruz and Kelly Shoppach? Heh, reminds me, Cruz has been MIA. He had his moments but he still pissed me off too often.
Under construction
Imagine what we could have had for Shields
Shields is better than Latos. I see injury problems in Latos future.
It would probably be a factor that Shields is 6 years older and while he has had a bunch of solid years, he's only had the 1 great year
We’ll never know but I wouldn’t be shocked if we weren’t offered the same deal. And if we were, AF prob wanted Meseroco instead, I guess he meant it when he said he doesn’t want to trade Shields.
Under construction
I have a feeling Friedman could pull a similar, if not better deal, with the Royals.
Myers ++
by Dome Biscuit on Dec 17, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Royals really don't want to trade him
I mean, sure, they would do it straight up for Shields but Friedman is going to want a lot more, we pretty much this for sure now.
Under construction
Exactly...
We must have been deadset on Mesoraco or the deal wasn’t going to work. Maybe we thought they would buckle and give in, and they didn’t. Just a guess.
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure the Padres needed to trade Latos right now.
And certainly, why they think trading good pitching for any hitting, in that ball park, is the best way to go.
The reason they did so well in the trade is everyone becomes much better in Petco
and that means Volquez could wind up being as good or close to Latos this year.
Under construction
I think this makes a trade of Shields nigh impossible
Given that no one other than the Reds really has the pieces at our positions of need
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 17, 2011 6:08 PM EST reply actions
Heh, well the Padres do
But yeah, this deal pretty much guarantees Shields will still be around for 2012.
Under construction
DARN!
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Marlins?
I don’t remember too many people thinking the Cubs would be the team that would go after Garza last offseason, so I wouldn’t assume Shields is off the market.
But what?
Morrison, Yelch(sp?) and well… we don’t exactly need a 3B(Dominquez) and Kyle Skipworth has been a major bust. That system isn’t exactly stacked.
Under construction
Wouldn't Morrison be considered almost enough? I emphasize almost.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Yelich is awesome...
Speed, gets on base, showing some position versatility, and if he continues to get bigger, the power numbers should get even better.
by Snarfalicious on Dec 17, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
We're running out of dumb GMs too
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 17, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
And now if we can get back to the subject of the htread, how sad that 12% of you want Johnny Gomes as your DH--he's awful
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
good point--in the end many here with all the saber stats in front of them pimp
guys like Howell and Gomes for some reason other than production
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Rather than re-sign Damon and Kotchman for 7-8 million , I would rather sign Beltran and trade for Barton at about 11-12 million(in total)
Get the only middle of the order hitter that makes the Rays a substantially better offense and replace Kotchman with a better fielder and a guy who should, at least, match what his numbers would likely be in 2012….but save 5-6 million dollars in the process(over a two year deal).
Beltran and Joyce could basically take turns being DH/RF’er on a daily basis and and the Rays could use Canzler as an alternate RH’ed DH if Joyce struggles(as well as back-up 1st base/platoon with Barton). Leaves the Rays with a LF’er in Joyce should Upton be moved at the deadline as well.
I don't want Barton at all
In fact if my choice was only Kotchman or Barton, welcome back Kotch. Beltran would be nice though.
I wouldn’t mind Damon back and I think he’s the guy we finally wind up signing because Beltran is the next guy to be too pricey for us. We will get one of the Padres 1B and we’re set.
Under construction
The 5-6 million more it will cost to re-sign Kotchman could go a long way in making other moves.
That difference, for equal performance, and requiring only a 1 year commitment, is big, IMO.
Yea but if we get a Padres 1b, does he start in the majors?
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 17, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
With a veteran 1st baseman brought in for 2012, the Rays should still look to find a young guy for 2013
And that is still very likely with the chips the currently have. Just like they should do with the catching position.
That is all predicated on them adding the one missing bat in the line-up and a solid defensive 1st baseman to maintain what should still be a play-off contending team next year.
I'm a little late to this party but great post MrNeg!
I, personally, wouldn’t mind any combo of Scott/Kubel and Jones/Gomes. Kubel’s bat may have the most upside but he is the worst defender. I want my “DH” to be able to play a few games a year in the field. I’d like to us the DH to give guys a rest from the turf.
I hope not.
I’m not all about Kubel. He’s exactly like Matt Joyce. Lineups against lefties would be rough.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 17, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
AF has been looking for a full time, RH hitting power DH since he's been here to balance out this line-up.
The search continues.
I'm tellin you, he is going to resign Damon
He might try to get other guys first but he will wind up back at Damon
I would love the switch handed Beltran but, we can’t afford him.
Under construction
Don't want him as a full-timer.
My argument was that he is pretty much limited to full-time DH duties and you have to pair him with a RH bat. I would rather have a Scott/Jones or Scott/Gomes platoon but Kubel’s bat may offer the best upside but it comes with the worst defense if we plan on using these guys in the field at all.
well
with five outfielders likely on the roster (Upton, Joyce, Jennings, Guyer, Fuld), plus Ben Zobrist, plus Sean Rodriguez, I’d say you’d be looking at a 30-inning game before Kubel would have to take the field.
Scott’s ability to play 1B — well, “play” at a sub-Billy-Butlerian level — might get him on the field. But there’s just no reason to think any of these corner guys are going to be needed to pick up a glove.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 18, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
You assume no injuries will occur. Never a bad thing to have depth.
I think I’d take Scott over Kubel. He can “man” 1B some and Kubel has one season with an OBP above .335.
As much of a Damon fan that i am, and i'd love to see him return, i feel there's a lot of ball left
in JD Drew and would hate to see him go somewhere and put up his career average numbers knowing we could have had him
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I ended up voting for him in this poll.
One of the few guys on the list that I feel aren’t DONE. He could give the Rays what they were looking for out of Manny this season, maybe. And he could play the field every once in a while to give guys a break.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 18, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
He just turned 36, has been a good defender and until last season
which saw him play in just 81 games has put up some great numbers and good v LHP
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I'm thinking the Rays were looking for 25 HR's/90+RBI's/.500 SLUG and a guy to protect Longoria in the order this season.
Damon didn’t deliver that and, maybe, he won’t in 2012 if re-signed. He may not be done but as the full time DH, and likely not to get a big impact bat this winter for 1st base, I think the Rays have to think bigger for the position.
I don't think anyone should think Damon could be that guy.
It’s really not even a possibility at this point.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 18, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
But if he is basically limited to being a DH, I don't see where he fits into the Rays plan.
It is by no means a give that the Rays are going to land a power hitting 1st baseman ready for 2012. More likely they get a young player who may need most of another year to make an impact. And I’m fine with that if they get a very good defensive 1st baseman(#1 priority for me) who can get on base and hit at least have gap power for next season.
But if that is the case, AF must to bring in a DH who will provide much needed power(25/90+) and who can protect Longoria. He has to be a full time guy, who can play and has good splits,and a veteran, accustomed(or accepting) of that role would be ideal. If he can play somewhere in the field and be decent…..even better, as that gives Maddon the flexibility he thrives on. My choice has to be Beltran and hope that the market drops him in the Rays laps(hopefully the Cards decide to go after Fielder). Apart from that, Luke Scott may be slightly ahead of Kubel as my second choice(although getting out of Target field may help Kubel). He will have to be given a 2-3 year deal which becomes prohibitive. Barring that, if Magglio Ordenez can return, he would jump to the top of my list, after Baltran.
Hard
to find a guy who can hit at DH and is willing to do so. Lots of guys should be DH’s because they can hit and can’t, can’t, field, but they refuse because they think it’ll shorten their careers. Well, if you are 28 and have never fielded well anywhere, then your career will be short enough as it is.
Sometimes the best DH makes the hitter behind him better, and doesn’t hit for a ton of power. If the team is better, not bad to have a lighter hitter. BTW, nice posts to read, not the usual F this, F that stuff on most of SB nation.
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