The Hit-And-Run Rays Tank
MLB Chatter
The biggest story yesterday was that Mike Fast published another stellar research piece, this time looking at the hit-and-run. I honestly haven't had a chance to fully digest the whole thing yet, but it's interesting to me how the Rays' use of the hit-and-run varies so much on a yearly basis. I think everyone hit the nose on the button earlier when commenting that the Rays' heavy use of the hit-and-run in 2011 was a result of their roster construction.
I'm somewhat encouraged by the fact that research like the Fast's work still appears in the public domain. Sabermetrics has progressed so far in recent years, but I don't think it's accurate to say that innovation and research are dead. There was that tremendous piece on pitch blocking earlier this fall, and our understanding of certain aspects of baseball keeps continually getting more refined (i.e. SIERA). I wish there were more people out there consistently doing research like Fast, but there's a reason more people don't emulate him: it's difficult, time-consuming stuff. Oh, and many of the people that can do this sort of research have already been snatched up by teams.
Anyway, moving on. Quick hitting links:
- You should all read this interview with Justin Masterson, like, right now. I had no idea he was such an engaging, fun person, and he sheds some good insight into pitching.
- Yuniesky Betancourt is back with the Royals. Really, there are no words to state how fitting that is.
- Marc Normandin took a look at a recent rumor involving Adam Jones -- apparently the Braves were interested in acquiring him. I know Jones was supposed to be one of those pieces the Orioles would build around, but he's getting older before our eyes and it seems likely they O's will need to enter another re-rebuilding phase. He'll probably get dealt sooner or later; it just depends how long it takes for the O's to give up.
- Over at Grantland, Jonah Keri wrote about the Yankees' quiet offseason. I must say, with all the holes in their rotation, I wasn't expecting them to be this chill.
Rays Talk
There's not much going on in the Rays blogosphere right now, but the most recent rumor involving the Rays links them to Carlos Beltran again. Apparently they're "seriously in the mix", but I'll believe that when they sign him.
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Someone try to put odds on the Rays signing Beltran.
I’ll go with 20-1, and it’s only that good because there have been so many rumors. Probably realistically more like 50-1.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
Beltran will be a Ray..take it to the bank.
AF is already preparing to wine and dine Beltran. He can show him a great little Puerto Rican deli near the Trop and take him on the ten minute drive to the beach. Cheap $250 flights to San Juan that are 2 hours and 45 minutes non-stop(for all those trips he will take on off days!). He will already have a new friend, teammate and countryman here in Jose Molina. He won’t have any trouble getting a great deal on a condo in this depressed real estate market in the area.
And most importantly, he can look forward to the "soft’ media in Tampa Bay where the toughest question he will face daily is “how are you adjusting to playing under the dome?”
And all that will sway him away from what probably is a $25mil gap in offers
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Only way to possibly do this
-leverage the fact he can play DH as much as he wants here to rest his legs
-better chance at post-season with us than the rest of the AL suitors
-tax breaks
-proximity to his homeland
-weather
-2 year deal with triggers to guarantee 3rd year and/or deferred money that should match up with new TV deal
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
I still think it's going to take a 2 year, 20 million deal with a vesting option, or a club option with a buy-out
It’s not often the Rays can find a 4-5 WAR player on a short-term contract. To put it in perspective, only Pujols and Fielder had a higher WAR this past season, among all free agents.
Beltran is an impact bat. He’s an injury risk, for sure. But he’s someone worth making that risk for. Let’s put it this way. If we were willing to offer 16 to Burrell, we should be willing to offer 20 for Beltran.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 22, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I would think that there will end up being only a small difference in salary offers between teams interetsed in him.
His leg issues are what is driving his market down into, what is generally described, as the 10-12 million dollar range. And 2-3 years in the likely length of the deal with probably a 3rd year option being acceptable to both parties(especially if there is a friendly “games played” clause written in). A third year guarantee may make the difference but the guy is not with Boras anymore and he has made his millions already, so it will probably come down to his comfort level and the best chance to win a ring he has never had.
In all seriousness, if AF is truly interested in Beltran, he will have to do a sell job that he has never really had to pull off before as a GM.
Another fair point
RT @injuryexpert: lot of Beltran’s decision will come down to medical staff. knee requires lot of maint.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
His knees are basically a chronic condition at this time and he opted not to have micro surgery two years ago which is always risky,
But that decision seemed to have paid off, he did play hard on it all last year and appeared to have survived very well. The Trop’s turf is considered easier on the body than let’ say…Toronto’s, which could be a selling point.
He's basically Cliff Floyd at this point, no?
Floyd had a 119 OPS+ prior to joining the Rays for his age-35 season.
Beltran has a 121 OPS+ prior to his age-35 season.
Beltran gave teams more defense/speed value over his career, but he’s basically a DH now, same as Floyd was in ’08.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Dec 22, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Cliff Floyd without the platoon split, I guess I should say
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Dec 22, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
also, it's reasonable to think that Beltran's career curve won't drop off as sharply
Beltran was much more of an all-around athlete before his knees disintegrated
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Floyd only had 284 PA's, a .775 OPS and was a 1.1 WAR in the year before he signed with the Rays
Beltran played 142 games in RF, 598 PA, a .905 OPS, and a 4.4 WAR last year.
Yes, his knees are a risk, but last year proved a lot about his health.
And, he actually plaed the entire second half of 2010 after having that surgery done in January
In CF, I might add. Pedestrian numbers for him that year but proved a lot, IMO.
I think the Rays probably max out at 3/25 for Beltran
Considering that I don’t see any other teams offering much more than 3/36, I think we have a shot.
Not many guys choose to leave 11 million bones on the table, but it’s not unprecedented for a guy to give up money if he truly favors a team or locality. Thome took 1.25 m from the Phillies when he probably could’ve scored 5 m elsewhere. Longo and Matt Moore probably lost out on hundreds of millions of dollars combined for a comfortable situation (I realize the differnces between extensions and FA signings, but still).
Beltran has made 135+ million in salary over his career, maybe he values weather, proximity to PR and a comfortable playing situation more than money. But he probably doesn’t.
Patterns in the market
suggest to me that the top free agents are signing with contenders at unprecedented levels. Werth aside, several top folks have left money on the table to try to make a run at a World Series ring.
With that in mind, the Cardinals, and the Red Sox are our main competition, and I feel the Blue Jays, and Indians just don’t have a serious shot, regardless of the money, especially if Beltran is looking for hist last contract before retirement. He signed with the Mets when they were seen as a rising powerhouse, which suggests to me that this pattern holds true with him, at least to an extent.
We have the advantages listed above over both Boston and St. Louis, and arguable are better positioned to make it to the Series—I think this will be our biggest selling point.
(Teams mentioned as involved from watching Sportscenter last night)
by Moorewinsplease on Dec 22, 2011 9:58 AM EST reply actions
Contracts like Moore and Longoria are reasons why the Rays should be able to take a risk every now and then
There is no better bat the Rays can find to upgrade their offense for under $100 million than Beltran. It’s not often the Rays get an opportunity to pick up someone like Beltran. If we can spend $7 million on a closer, I hope Andrew convinces $tu this is another exception worth pursuing. I never want the Rays to become a team that buys its players, but this is the type of financial flexibiity I wish the Rays had.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 22, 2011 10:14 AM EST reply actions
The Rays are the right type of team to take that risk
The ability to DH, and Maddon’s emphasis on resting his players, I think the Rays offer the best chance of any of the teams listed, to keep Beltran healthy.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 22, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, would really make the team look phenomenal going into next season regardless of who plays 1B. Still hoping Joyce.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Chris Carter sucks
You guys can do much better then the Rod Deer clone who can’t field.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Rob Deer was white
Not sure how comparing a white player to a black player is racist.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
So is the other non-fielding Chris Carter
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I was hoping you guys don't want that Chris Carter
He is even worse then bad. He is like watching Omar Vizquel’s bat with Manny Ramirez’s glove.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
I bet sexual chocolate Mark Henry would do a better job at first
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Savage played in the minors so you know he would bring the madness!!!!
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
The Spider
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 22, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Randy Poffo!
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
This guy

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 22, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Moonlighting as
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 22, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
whole lotta man wrapped up in that package
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
and can dunk a basketball
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 22, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
I loved these videos growing up
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
That Chris Carter was with the organization last year
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Who are the lob city boys?
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
I thought you were referring to an old tag team since my avatar is Big Daddy Cool Diesel! I am pretty pumped to see the Clips again this year. I caught Blake against the Raptors last year and was pretty amazed by his hops.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
When they traded for CP3 Blake said "It's gonna be Lob City."
My avatar is a Clips Lob City t-shirt.
I knew about the CP3 quote
I just didn’t notice your avatar. The Clips are going to be fun to watch. Who has more wins between them and the Lakers?
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Look at how off-topic this garbage is.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
You shameless hypocrite.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
rglass essentially breaks every single one of the rules in the guidelines and gets away with it
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
It is what they live for
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Would have one of the best lineups 1-6
LF Jennings
CF Upton
DH Beltran
3B Longoria
2B Zobrist
RF Joyce
That’s a more than respectable top two-thirds of a lineup in any division.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 22, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Young 1B (I like how Rizzo swings, its more smooth like Joyce than golfer like Reid), Sean and Molina following
That’d be awesome
Under construction
with no further additions
(and you know they’re going to move Davis/Niemann)
LF Jennings
2B Zobrist
DH Beltran
3B Longoria
CF Upton
1B Joyce
RF Guyer
C Lobaton/Molina
SS Brignac/S-Rod (who hits sixth or higher vs. lefties, obviously)
Man, one Beltran can change your whole day
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
i feel like that's a championship-caliber team with our pitching.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
the rotation and the pen
While the 2010 pen will never be beat, the 2012 pitching, overall, is easily the best.
Even if we pull off a miracle and get Beltran, I hope we still trade for Rizzo. Not sure how Joyce would be at 1B.
Under construction
with a rotation of Price, Shields, Moore, Hellickson
you’re essentially looking at the 90s Braves all over again
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Put Duda at 1B, Joyce in RF
Guyer on the bench. WINNER.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I hate the idea of Guyer on the bench.
Real good bench player, but I think it’s a major waste of his talent and ability, and it will ultimately decrease his value.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's just putting together the best team.
Guyer will most likely start in the minor, assuming we make a couple of good moves…
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
no offense, but this is clearly Shiny New Toy syndrome
what exactly has Duda done that Guyer hasn’t?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
He was pretty good in the majors last season.
I’m a big Guyer supporter, but let’s keep it real here.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
with Brandon Guyer's minor-league track record
why not give Guyer 300 MLB at-bats so that in 2013, you feel the same way about him?
I mean, seriously: there’s really no consistent way to be high on Duda and low on Guyer. They’re essentially the same guy, except that Guyer is toolsier, was drafted higher, and plays much better defense.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
But Guyer doesn't play 1B.
Why not give him 300 MLB at-bats? It sounds like we are going all in this year, so Guyer will probably be getting most of his at-bats in AAA>
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
well, my views on this are pretty well-known
but that makes no sense to me.
Guyer isn’t going to double his walk rate by spending another year in Durham, so I don’t see how sending him down helps him. Also, he’s pretty unlikely to become a superstar by age 32, so I don’t see how manipulating his service time helps the Rays. So this strikes me as a lose-lose proposition.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, he does deserve a chance,
but sometimes you get blocked by a good team, and I hope that will happen.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
You know, I can see Beltran actually preferring the Rays but us not giving him that 3rd year
Since he has “two and three year offers” We might have an option for a 3rd but I bet that’s why we wont sign Beltran.
Under construction
It's protection for the player and Beltran signed with the Mets because they offered(while the Yankees did not)
But it gives him the security that he can’t be peddled around, which BTW, he waived to get trade to the Giants last deadline. Don’t know how AF feels about the clause though, and maybe it could seal a deal.
Friedman on MLB Network radio -- notes:
*Interest level in SP was anticipated – great position for Rays to be in
*Team has to continually solve for a talent equation with one eye on the future and one eye on the present which leads to swings in payroll until team can get revenue help
*Regarding adding a big bat – team doesn’t work with hard & fast payroll number. There is flexibility to expand payroll, but it does affect future years. Cited paying Soriano in 2010 while taking off the 2011 payroll
*Didn’t get caught up in the off-season job rumors because the professional satisfaction of doing what the Rays do in the ALE also brings a lot of personal satisfaction to him & the personal dynamic w/in the organization is that good
*First base & DH: Kotch is still in the conversation – looking at who can generate the most offense while maintaining defensive expectations. Zobrist is NOT an option at 1st because his value at 2B & RF is too great
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 10:46 AM EST reply actions
Interesting
If they will spend now but not the future, could we swing a multi year deal for Beltran?
Kotchman better only be “break in case nothing else fit” box. He’s ok, but we should really improve.
Under construction
You might not like Barton, Joeybw...
But if the Rays could afford Beltran and had $0 left for a 1st baseman(as a stop gap), they could trade nothing for Barton and only have to find 1.5 million for him. Kotchman is still going to cost 3 million(if he agrees to a 1 year deal,,,doubtful).
I would take the offensive gain from Beltran and the defense that Barton brings and settle for whatever Barton gives with the bat..and he at least is an on base machine, takes a lot of pitches, and an average bat(for his career).
Joyce -> 1B
I wouldn’t mind Barton as an option on the bench or at AAA in case Joyce can’t handle first for some strange reason, though.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
That's our double fall-back option.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Tell you what
We get Beltran signed, I won’t even mind Barton.
Of course, I still hope Rizzo will be waiting in Durham, though.
Under construction
Or, if we had $0 for a 1B, we could trade depth (Wade Davis) for the cheap 1B who costs $0.
Like the guys we have been talking about.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
That's why I like Duda, who projects to 2012.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
That's the problem.
But I think Davis plus, I don’t know, Fuld, could get it done. Heck, what about Guyer and Colome?
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Please, no more Barton talk
For the sake of my stomach, which turns every time you mention him.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
There's not enough Pepto in the world...
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
also
*Prospects mean more to team than anyone else due to the revenue gaps within the ALE, even before the change in the CBA
*Changes in CBA aren’t helping small-market teams over the 1st 5 years but if old agreement would have maintained, it could have been even more damaging because smaller revenue teams would have had less access to talent
*
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Said over the next 3 days, wouldn't bet on something happening for the roster
But also wouldn’t bet against it.
Such a typical non-committal answer from him :)
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
from BA chat yesterday:
Ben (Leland Grove): What went wrong with Josh Sale’s swing this year, and how far down the list did he fall? Are you confident he can regain it, and is he likely headed back to Princeton?
Bill Ballew: I believe it was more of a mental thing than any other aspect. He got a little pull happy and seemed completely out of rhythm. In people I’ve spoken with, some believe he had so many things going through his head that it was paralysis by analysis. Hopefully he can clear his mind this winter and arrive in spring training with a clean slate. He’s likely headed to Princeton or Hudson Valley.
that’s certainly much better than the alternative.
Paralysis by analysis
Always love that quote
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
He will never be a 5 tool guy but should come back some what this year
Probably Hudson Valley is right. I thought they would come up at the same level every year but Vettleson is probably going to BG or Charlotte.
Under construction
Never thought he would be a 5-tool guy
Travis Snider seems more fitting
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Sterny -- is that your Bortnick question in the BA chat with Ballew?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions
Beltran is probably the best choice for the Rays
He may have knee problems and everything but at the same time, I think it’s well worth the risk. I don’t see Beltran being another Pat Burrell. It’s the injuries I’d be worried about the most.
What if we had a choice?
Would you take Beltran and Kotchman or Damon and Pena?
I love that Beltran is a switch hitter but he does leave us with 0 bucks for 1B.
Under construction
I'd take...
Beltran and Kotchman
Although there’s a chance Kotchman will regress, I also think he won’t be the .217 hitter he was in Seattle. I think that eye surgery really helped him. Not only that but he could hit for a little more power next year. Contrary to popular belief, I think Kotchman can still have some serious value to use next year.
I love the idea in theory
You also have to take into account that the Rays are most likely going to make Rizzo experience Durham for a bit so we need a 1B either way.
Under construction
Blah
Lots of potential especially in Miranda’s bat but he keeps failing when given a chance and the D’Backs gave him the chance to be their starter.
Under construction
thats when rizzo comes in.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
At that point in time, Rizzo shall arrive.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'm trying to find any angle here
But maybe the Cards and this agent don’t get along? He did represent Pujols also…
Yes, I know, I’m just reaching now.
Under construction
We're also the only team that fits bill for Beltran...
…on everything not money related .
He’s going to have to play in the field with on a regular basis with the Cards and Red Sox, which also saps some of his value. Toronto’s turf is a nightmare and he’d be far from home and Cleveland has the same money issues we have and aren’t all that competitve. He and Joyce could split RF/DH.
We may even out bid Cleveland
I don’t get Toronto, this is another one of those that feels “we’re gonna sign him cuz the Rays want him” type things, they got Thames and Snider fighting for LF, Bautista in RF and they seem to love E5 at DH. Cards are trying to sign an OF’er but Beltran? Really? Seems like a bit too much considering Craig will miss a month or less. Honestly, the Red Sox seem to only want pitching, I don’t think they really want Beltran that bad.
Under construction
You actually bring up a very good point...
From the Rays perspective at least. Joyce would be playing RF most of the time since there are more right handed pitchers than left handed. And Beltran could play RF against lefties. Not a bad situation right there.
Zo would be happy with that
I think he liked being a super utility player in the past but now he just wants to stay at 1 position and that would sure make it seem that he’s the everyday 2B.
Under construction
At the same time though
Beltran might agree to strictly being a DH. Just all depends. But it can’t hurt to have options that’s for sure.
Option might be a very key word in this whole thing
I think we will offer a team option for a 3rd year while Beltran wants it guaranteed or at least have it be a vesting option. The Cards and Jays might be offering that 3rd year which is why he’s “considering 2 and 3 year deals”
Under construction
Does he want to play the field?
As a Jays fan I wouldn’t mind signing Beltran but I just think he is a huge risk. Also, guys who are bad in the field usually still want to grab a glove. Hopefully Carlos knows he is better suited as a DH at this point in his career.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 22, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Last I heard is he wants to be "at least a part time fielder"
Fits the whole spend time in RF thing.
Under construction
Beltran
I hope it doesn’t happen. He’s too much of an injury risk at this point, given his age. The Rays don’t have the financial flexibility to tie up some $8M a year in a player whose average games played probable projects less than 120 a year.
The team needs offense, but there may be significant improvement without spending on a 35 year old DH with a bum knee. Longoria, Upton, and Sean Rodriguez could improve their stats. Desmond Jennings won’t have to wait until July or whenever it was.
Rays are generally conservative. I don’t see them taking this big a risk.
Generally, yes
Rafael Soriano. Bet you no one saw the Rays paying 7 million to a reliever, even if he was the closer.
Under construction
Good point
Still, that was a one year deal, and a contract that could have been moved at the trade deadline. Beltran, if he’s injured, will be impossible to move.
I can't see the Cards offering a 3 year deal
because I don’t know if Beltran can hold up playing defense that long.
I hope they don't
Because if they wind up being all 2 year deals except for the Jays(still don’t see a spot for another OF’er, guys. Just stealing another FA from us) and if the Jays offer him a full time OF job, he wont be around for long anyway.
Under construction
Boy, what did they do to him last year?
#RedSox players on Crawford via BobbyV: “We have to make sure that Carl feels at home this year” #Rays
Whatever it was, he deserved worse. Boston? really Carl?
Focus on Beltran. Focus on Beltran….
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Is Thole any good?
I think the Mets are going with Rob Johnson and then backing up with either Luis Martinez or Michael Last Name. I mean, is he better than Lobaton?
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no
I’m on board with OBP is Life, but I don’t think he can hit at the MLB level.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I didn't see this before I posted below.
I guess the question is, do the Mets think he can be a starter.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Thole sucks.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I’ve heard nothing bad about him, apparently he has a real nice 2-strike approach and can shorten up when he needs to. Him and Molina would be nice, imo.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
He can barely hit and runners ran all over him last season.
No power to speak of.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
.381 career minor-league SLG
or, put another way: 12 points less than Juan Pierre. Players like that almost never succeed in the majors even with a tremendous batting eye.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. Throw my idea out the window please.
Davis for Duda is my new hope.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Speculation:
Any way we grab Duda and Thole from the Mets? I was trying to think of what it would take, maybe Davis, Fuld, and Chrinos? That would be such a great trade for us, but should the Mets do that?
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
Rays should make a real nice offer for Ike Davis
What a Rays player he is. He wouldn’t need Durham, either.
Under construction
Why would anyone want to trade for Thole?
We have crappy, nonhitting catchers under team control already.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Main piece would obviously be Duda.
Any way we grab Duda and Thole from the Mets?
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
Why would anyone want to trade for Thole?
We have crappy, nonhitting catchers under team control already.
I’m down with Duda, although I’d much prefer Ike Davis.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree, I'd much rather have Ike.
but it would probably cost a bit more, so I’d love that trade for us.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Davis, Fuld and Colome for Ike
Eh, Mets are dumb but probably wouldn’t do it.
Then again, they do need someone who can actually pitch.
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They've already said they wouldn't trade Ike.
Hopefully making Duda more available. There probably isn’t a way the Mets take Niemann for Duda.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Padres wouldn't trade Latos, we wouldn't trade Garza
Depends what they get offered.
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dumb dumb DUMB
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Hope this doesn't mean the Beltran dream is already over.
Jon Paul Morosi of FOXSports.com reports that Seth Smith is drawing trade interest from the Mariners, Athletics, Braves, Mets, and Rays.
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Another guy who can't hit lefties.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
If our interest is real, we must really not want Damon back
I mean, Seth Smith? Try to win in the playoffs, not just make the playoffs, Rays!
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negotiating tactic to drive down Beltran's price?
please?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
That would only work if we were somehow the top bidder
Or if he is dying to be a Ray.
Being the highest bidder is definatley not true. I hope he wants to be a Ray but he’s not going to feel desperate to sign with us ASAP.
Under construction
Seth Smith is Matt Joyce 2 yrs older

Have to consider with the loss of Damon and Kotchman, the lineup is actually rather right-handed these days
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I still hope we can do better than Smith as a DH.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
lol
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
dude hit .625 though
that’s a career in any league
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Meh.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
What about Shelley Duncan?
Not a sexy name but he hit 11 HR’s in 247 PA’s. I would love if we could somehow get him to go along with a younger, lefty 1B. Lucas Duda? Sign Beltran, acquire Duda, Thole, and Duncan. That is an awesome team.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
Frankenstein's monster can be a hit or a miss.
The K rate is under control in some seasons, but in 2010, it was real bad. If he’s really cheap, I’d be willing to take a chance. Probably not a ton of difference realistically (not upside-wise) between him and Blanks in the near future.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Have you seen Duncan?
More like Mary Shelley’s Duncan.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Him and Duda at 1B is a win for us.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
However, in very small sample sizes, Duncan's not a very good fielding 1b.
OF UZR is much better, but I only looked at UZR.
And the sample size is way too small.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
At least he wouldn’t be the starter, he could go with a lefty 1B who has trouble hitting lefties. We could probably tolerate that.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
But we already have Canzler, too.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Send him the the Indians then, lol
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 22, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I do remember that one game where Duncan was basically all the web gems
3 or 4 Fuld-like catches in one game. In general, he looks a little awkward at everything. I’m sure Blanks does also.
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...
The Cardinals intensified their talks with Beltran last night and into this morning, Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Yeah, they did that with Pujols also
Then that turned out to not be true. I’m waiting for the mystery team to sign him.
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Gio'r Hair Smells Terrific
My inner Berman
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 22, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
...
The A’s are moving closer to a Gio Gonzalez trade, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (Twitter links). The bidding is down to two teams, one of which is the Nationals. The Marlins and Red Sox may also be involved, but the Rangers are not.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Fielder is probably the big domino to fall
For the Rays at least, who want to see the 1st base market clarify
1B needs to be a trade
Because once Fielder is signed, Kotchman is the best 1B left and he needs to be a desperation signing or a 1 year signing and we trade for one of the young 1B who needs more time to learn.
Under construction
Well, Beltran seems very St. Louis bound
Do something, Friedman
We’re awesome with Beltran, you know it to be true.
Under construction
It hurts to lose Rodriguez, but yeah, probably
Rays need a 1b, and something’s got to give.
Not interested in Bartlett, though, and the Padres probably aren’t throwing money into any deal, especially one in which they lose Rizzo.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I'm just hoping for a Carlos right now
Would prefer Beltran but Pena would be a nice power upgrade for 1B
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Red Sox out of Beltran chase
I never believed they were in. I would feel a lot happier if all the sudden the Cards and Jays were out of the running.
Under construction
Seems we're out on the Beltran chase as well...
Cards, Jays and Indians.
Another awesome player down the drain.
Under construction
I hope AF remembers that the Rays were next to last in attendence last season.
And having a winning team doesn’t equate to fans pouring through the turnstiles. Great pitching has not shown to interest fans at the gate. At some point, you may need to think about giving the fans a reason to come to the Trop…like an exciting offense that will score runs consistently and not put those who show up to sleep.
Perhaps the tag line should be ’Build it…an offense…and they will come!"
Or
Seems to me literally everyone in the area who loves pitching and defense follows the Rays.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
so basically you're advocating hit show 2.0. get out.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
Excuse me but can someone explain this to me?
How are the Cardinals favorite for Beltran if they offered 2 years at 8 mil each? We couldn’t match that? Really?
Under construction
Looks like Rosenthal found my pipe
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Sources: #RedSox trying to get G. Gonzalez, Bailey in “monster” deal. #Rangers, #Rays also on Bailey. #Nationals team to beat on Gio. #MLB
All rumors are evil.
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why the hell are the rays in on bailey?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Gio haul is sick
#2,3 and 5 of their top prospects and Milone is pretty good as well.
Can't see anything you wrote, just a blank message.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT























