Is Carlos Beltran a Good Fit for the Rays?
It has been reported that the Rays have been in the mix on free agent outfielder Carlos Beltran. Buster Olney has also mentioned that Beltran would like to be closer to his home in Puerto Rico, although it is not a major factor in his decision making process, it does bode well for the Rays.
Carlos Beltran has been one of my favorite players since I pulled three of his rookie cards in a box of 1995 Topps Traded baseball cards when I was much younger. I remember reading that he ran a 60 yard dash in 6.1 seconds and took a look at his high school stats and I had to know more about this kid from Puerto Rico.
Beltran would then go on to start what might end up being a hall of fame career and this fan would like nothing more than to see one of his favorite players in a Rays uniform, even if it is toward the end of his career.
Heck, Wade Boggs and Jose Canseco were two of my favorite players when I first started watching baseball and I would go to Rays games just to watch them play and try and score an autograph from them while waiting outside the player parking lot at the Trop. Now, as an almost thirty year old father and husband I can still see myself doing the same with Beltran. Pathetic? Some will say so, but the fan in me will never die and I love the thrill of watching and hopefully meeting my favorite players.
The best part of this is that the Rays need an impact bat added to their lineup. This is not a secret. But is Beltran, even if he were to drop his price tag a little, really a good fit for the Rays? As a Beltran fan it saddens me to say that I'm not so sure he is a good fit here.
Let me explain.
Contract:
Beltran is likely looking for a three year deal worth $12M-$15M annually but is reportedly weighing two and three year offers. That does not necessarily mean the Rays have or have not offered him a contract, but the other teams in the mix for him have more money to spend and a three year deal in the $40M range will look a lot better than a two year deal in the $24M range, and that may be a reach to think the Rays would even offer that.
Injuries and Age:
Beltran will be turning 35 in late April and has a long history of injuries, many of which are leg related. This does not bode well for a player who wants to play the field and will have half of his games on turf if he signed with the Rays.
Beltran has missed time with knee, thigh, hamstring, ankle, and foot injuries just to name the ones that are leg related. Not to mention he has spent time on the disabled list with wrist and oblique injuries. The good news for Beltran is that the Rays have an incredible medical staff.
Game Conditions:
Beltran, throughout his career, has performed at his worst on turf and under a dome. Check out his splits when considering game conditions:
| Condition | AVG | OBP | SLG | PA | tOPS+ |
| Day | .294 | .366 | .525 | 2453 | 107 |
| Night | .278 | .359 | .483 | 5277 | 97 |
| Open | .286 | .363 | .499 | 7010 | 101 |
| Dome | .252 | .344 | .472 | 720 | 90 |
| Grass | .284 | .362 | .497 | 7307 | 100 |
| Turf | .273 | .345 | .483 | 423 | 93 |
*Stats from Baseball-Reference
As you can see, Beltran performs much better on grass than on turf, in open air stadiums rather than domes, and in day games rather than night games. I included tOPS+ (a stat that shows the player's split relative to his overall OPS) to show that dome and turf, although in the smallest of his career sample sizes, have been where he has found the least amount of success.
Even though his numbers in a dome and on the turf are the lowest of his in any game condition they would still be a welcomed addition to the Rays lineup but not at $12M+ per year for at least two years. It just does not make sense.
Like I said above, I am a big Beltran fan. If he comes here I would be very happy but I am not so sure that the Rays and Carlos Beltran make a good fit when all factors are included.
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#Rays, Red Sox out on Beltran, per @Ken_Rosenthal and @ScottMCBSSports, as he’s down to Cards, Jays, Indians
Care for the latest cool rumor that wont happen?
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Sources: #RedSox trying to get G. Gonzalez, Bailey in “monster” deal. #Rangers, #Rays also on Bailey. #Nationals team to beat on Gio. #MLB
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No way the Sox can offer more
but they probably will because we don’t shop at the 99 cent store, we stand at corners with a cup.
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no want Bailey
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Santos?
Nestor Molina seems like a steal for a closer.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 23, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
That wasn't a bad deal.
But Molina was a B+ prospect. That is a hefty price for a guy who will onbly pitch 70 or so innings.
Sickels overrated Molina
Most other publications had him around the #9 Jays prospect.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 24, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
I agree Beltran is not the answer
The Rays deserve better…his performance will not merit the type of contract he gets… he is worth 10 million a year and I know he will get closer to 13 a year.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
is there evidence that
hitting in a dome, or hitting at night, or hitting on turf are actual skills, as opposed to just a way to slice up Beltran’s numbers?
just not sure it's predictive
I mean, has there been a 120+ OPS+ hitter (in a pitcher’s park, no less) that’s gone from grass to turf and tanked the way those splits would suggest? I can’t think of one.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
According to Marc Topkin
We wont be getting Beltran because he didn’t want to be a DH. At least it wasn’t money again.
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So much for the reports that he would be into being a part time DH.
Dumb decision on his part unless he values playing the field over playing baseball in general for a longer period of time.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
how would that help?
Anyway, rumors work in reverse: a team might be in on a guy even though you haven’t heard about it, but generally speaking, when word comes that a team is out on a guy, it means they’re out.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not convinced that AF's offer was to be a "part time DH"
How would that have swayed him to sign here? He could have gotten a majority of his PT in RF with Joyce being the DH most games. The offer would have given Beltran the opportunity to transition into the DH(if needed) over the length of the deal.
Eh, Rendon is considered a better prospect than these guys also
Even though he hasn’t made his debut yet.
Yep, Beane wins this one. I think he lost the Cahill one.
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disagree
getting a single A-level guy — even one with as many question marks as Jarrod Parker — and two legitimate lesser prospects besides is a pretty good haul.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Very good haul for them
Moves the Rays up a notch on the org rankings because the Nats just decimated their next level of talent behind Harper and Rendon.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Now will you give my beloved Jays the best system label?
Nobody touches our depth and upside!
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 23, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like the A's at all
They still have no bats.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 23, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
the market for Jamie Shields
Nationals acquire Gio Gonzalez for A.J. Cole, Brad Peacock, Derek Norris and Tom Milone.
That’s a hell of a haul.
Agreed.
I don’t know what the Nats are doing. The move doesn’t make them that big of a competitior in the NL East.
It does when you consider they added the experienced pitcher they were looking for
and can now go sign Fielder
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Guess the Rays don't match up well with the Nats anymore
They don’t need Davis/Neimann, their catchers are no longer a surplus and Upton may not be appealing either. I suppose if they sign Fielder, the Nats could always look to dump Adam LaRoche for pennies on the dollar or Marrero for the same.
isn't Marrero hurt?
otherwise I definitely like him as a buy low guy
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, he is
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Who is interested in Fielder anyway?
I thought he would be signed right after Pujols but his market has been slow and quiet even for Boras.
Of course Boras also represents Pena and Damon, maybe we can re sign 2 Boras clients at once again.
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Seattle
RT @LoMoMarlins Just heard from my boy that Prince to Seattle is a done deal…
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
SMOAAAAAAAAK
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Nevermind, I see it now
Congrats, Mariners.
Let me guess, we face him 13 times this year?
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I hope we play them 13 times.
52 IBBs to Fielder, but hopefully not much else happening on their offensive end. A few hits from Ichiro, probably.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Ichiro, Ackley, Fielder, Carp/Smoak
I see big years out of that kid Robinson and Guitterez. They won’t be an automatic win.
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You see a big year from FRANKLIN Gutierrez?
That guy’s been going backwards for the past couple years.
And the rest of those guys besides Fielder and Ichiro are all pretty big toss ups to me. I wouldn’t want to count on them if I were the Mariners.
Ackley, Carp, and especially Robinson might K too much to be very effective at the plate. With K pitchers like Price, Moore, and Shields, I’m not too worried.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, nevermind
It’s not real.
Lomo did the same thing with Pujols. He acted like Pujols signed with the Marlins and later on said “What? I was talking about my friend who is also named Pujols” Everyone else is using Fielder’s tweet as confirmation….
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it was funny the first time
Now he’s just being dumb
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
And his punch line is...
LoMoMarlins Logan Morrison
Purple Rain & When Doves Cry are going to sound unbelievable this summer under the lights at Century Link Field
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He's getting traded 100% for a reliever
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 22, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he's tweeting his way out of Miami
Now they’re rumored to be looking at Joe Saunders? Really????
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Buying all the talent out there!!!
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Let's get an extension for Hellickson while we're at it.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Thought so, but I wasn't sure.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
why not both?
and Price for good measure?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
With these deals going down, I wouldn't mind seeing what someone would give up for Price.
Good chance the Rays come out on top in that one.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
They probably won't win won even with Price.
Sorry, bro.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
add an elite hitter to the lineup
and you honestly don’t think this could be a WS team?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think they can be a WS team any given season
But it’s really tough to win it. Who’s the elite hitter you’re adding, and how are you adding him?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Truth.
My pessimism is running near an all time high after that fell through.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I feel better now after seeing the deal.
That’s quite a bit.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
That’s a truckload. Honestly, upgrade one of Peacock or Milone just a bit and I’d trade Shields for that haul. If the market for pitching is so tight that the A’s get this for Gio and the Pads got what they got for Latos, then I really hope we can trade Shields or Price this offseason, as it seems to be a real seller’s market.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I'm beginning to think this might be the best plan.
I’d be looking to move Shields more than Price though, but would consider either for the right deal. And then make a move for a bat since teams trading for Shields/Price won’t have spare impact bats if their trying to compete.
I wouldn't want that for Shields
That’s 3 pitchers and a C who hit .210 in Single A
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DOUBLE A
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Pitching heavy wouldn't be ideal, but something along those lines.
If you could turn the 3 pitchers into 1 pitcher and 2 hitters that would be a good balance.
Like the Reds deal?
Change Volquez to Juan Fransisco and that’s pretty good, isn’t it?
Of course, Friedman probably wanted something like that AND Meso instead of Grandal.
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I think a deal centered around a potential elite bat even if a year or so away.
With some more parts.
Morrison and Yelch
I keep blanking on the other parts the Marlins could give us. And yes, I would like to rip them off, badly.
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A great start.
Wouldn’t need much more, honestly. I also can’t think of who else I want from them.
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Ya, that would be the bulk of it.
With adding a lottery ticket and a bullpen arm or something similar.
Less flight time
Easier for his young children who live there to travel to see him.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Sure to convince a Boras client, in the twilight of his career, to take less money and/or fewer years.
I’m surprised at how many people are disappointed. Just because the Rays were reported as being interested doesn’t mean he was ever a realistic option.
Beltran is trying to secure the last long term contract of his career and creating the appearance of a “bidding war” by giving up the name of any team who called to kick the tires is most certainly advantageous on the part of Boras & co.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
Lozano client
and Pujols just took less money to go to the Angels
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Pujols gets some kind of FO position though too
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
I swear I just read he was with Boras.
Must have been something about Fielder.
But the point remains. And Pujols is a different case altogether. The difference between a 9 or 10 year deal at age 31 and a 2 or 3 year deal at age 34 is huge. Same with the monetary concerns.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
very few pitchers remain
Danks locked up to 5 year deal today and now gonzalez. Garza is only other potential pitcher in trade in lieu of Davis/niemann. Oswalt and Jackson pretty much all that’s left in FA market.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 22, 2011 4:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Is it possible that Chicago wanted to lock up Danks thinking that it might make him a little more tradeable?
Does that contract make him more or less desireable for other teams?
by JoeMasGlasses on Dec 22, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm asking because I really don't see what direction they are going.
by JoeMasGlasses on Dec 22, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
haha I was at the Nutcracker tonight
And I was thinking the same thing. Why I was thinking about it, I don’t know, but I was. Seemed weird to me all this salary cutting they want to do, and then they give big money to Danks. When he first signed, I thought exactly what you proposed here, but then I thought maybe it was too much money. Do we know what his yearly salaries are in this deal? Is it weighted on one end or the other?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
At the ballet.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 23, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Oh so now we're going hard after Bailey
I don’t know if I’m pessimistic or realistic but Bailey will not go to Tampa.
Under construction
I too would have gone with "put new username in signature"
Now that the old college try has been exhausted, I give up
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
The Latos and Gonzalez deals
I want to see Felix get dealt to see just how much a team is willing to pay.
Under construction
OT: Is not responding to emails regarding reinstatement the MO for Ben Buchanan?
Should I have emailed someone else?
Also OT: I think this blog needs some OTTs for stuff like this so Rays discussion doesn’t get bombarded by questions or wrestling chat.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
canned response
Please do me a personal favor and try to ignore the members that arent too fond of fans from other blogs commenting. You certainly aren’t being fully civil yourself, and the disrespect is unnecessary. Please do not quote members of the blog in your sig, it will just stir up trouble. Thanks, and please just try to be a bit more respectful.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
What is a canned response?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
We should do this trade
http://www.halosheaven.com/2011/12/22/2654715/all-out-trade-for-longoria
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
It was really funny that the author really thought the Rays would actually think about it
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
and that some of the commenters took him seriously
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
If the Angels magically obtain Harper, Strasburg, and Rendon
Then I can see a trade lol
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Given Longo's deal
I honestly am not sure any organization in baseball could make it worth the Rays’ while. I mean, if the package started with Trout, Segura, Bourjos and Kendrick, I suppose Andrew Friedman might be able to stop laughing long enough to put together a counter-offer.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
You wouldn't think about a Trout+Harper+Strasburg+Rendon trade?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
that's two organizations, if my counting fingers still work correctly
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
That's where the Angels magically obtaining the 3 Nats comes in
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I followed it.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
as long as that's the plan
can’t the Rays just magically obtain those 3 Nats without giving up Longoria?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
No one has that much magic
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
time to fire up OOTP
if I throw in enough 30-grade prospects, eventually the Nats will cave
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Ask George Costanza
He figured out a way to get Bonds & Griffey w/o giving up too much.
I’m sure he can do the same here.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
SHAZAM!
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Mostly Nats
I think it’s only right that Evan goes to the Nats who already have Zimmerman and somehow acquired Trout.
Under construction
They have an obsession of acquiring Longoria
And do a terrible job of it.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Too much for Pujols.
They’ll have to toss in some cash.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
You joakie is leaking
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 22, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
A tip of the Hatfield to you sir
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Well, now they get 2 years of Beltran's knees (or lack there of)
I wonder how much they paid. Nah, it would probably piss me off.
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hearing 2/25
and if so, my hate is renewed: that’s just stupid. Thanks for driving up the price so that you can win 78 games, idiots.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
The money probably wasn't the issue
But the reported Turf & DH components
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
that's also a big difference in money
stupid stupid Cardinals
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
How big of a difference though
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
the difference when an agent can say
“oh, I’m dealing with an organization that’s loaded and delusional”
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
You do realize that the Cards are probably the fav for the NLC in 2012
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
?
Step 1: take an old team that lucked its way into 90 wins (88 pythag)
Step 2: subtract the best player in baseball
Step 3: profit?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They get Wainwright back
Moving Berkman out of RF should improve their defense.
And they had a terrible pen last year-that will help them improve this year.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
They are an overrated and injury prone team
Holliday is overrated. Berkman is injury prone and he’s not going to repeat 2011. Beltran is a huge injury risk. Craig is new to the team and is already injury prone, same for Freese. Oh and they lost Pujols. Cards are not the favorite, not in my eyes.
Under construction
That division is pretty weak going into next year
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
oh sure
the division is ten gallons of crap in a five-gallon hat. That doesn’t mean the Cardinals aren’t old, terrible, and stupid though.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
They aren't terrible that's still a good team
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
they are

[note: I might still be slightly pissed off about the whole Beltran thing]
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
lol
This turf issue needs to go away asap
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
ladies and gentlemen, your 2028 World Series Champions
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'd follow them in Las Vegas
and probably Charlotte. But San Antonio? Not a chance.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Last Cubs pennant was before Jackie Robinson was allowed to play MLB
That’s crazy lol
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
hey, I live in Baltimore
so I know what it means to take a 15-year break from sanity for tax reasons.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
you know what turf doesn't affect?
your DH
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
The DH is a cursed position
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
The Reds look like a solid team.
Cubs, Pirates, Astros are bottom feeders.
MIL won’t have the hitting to win.
Cards are probably 2nd best, but I struggle to see how the Reds will not win the division next season.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
still: ?
Pretty much every single player on that team is due to regress with a vengeance (unless you think Lance Berkman will have the best season of his career again at age 36).
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough, they'll all regress...
Except Wainwright, he should be better. He returns, Berkman is back for cheap, they’ve added Beltran for less money than was given to Cuddyer and WIllingham, Furcal is back for a fairly low price, and they still have money to spend since the balked at overpaying Albert Pujols with what could become the worst contract since the only other 10-year contract given to a guy over 30. It has been a very nice offseason for STL.
?
Berkman is 200.
Furcal is 196 and not good.
Beltran got a higher AAV than Cuddyer and Willingham, and they’re hilariously planning to play him in centerfield, where he should last a game or two before his knees decide to retire.
Oh, and the rest of the team gathers together in the offseason to fondly reminisce about the good old days of the Ottoman Empire.
Oh, and let’s not forget that they lost the best player in baseball. You would have to be delusional to think this counts as a good offseason for St. Louis.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Remember Albert was not Albert in 2011
So the loss is not as bad
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I'd hate to have a 1B hit .299/.366/.541
screw that guy
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying it's a loss, but he's not the 8-9WAR guy he used to be
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
You need to start raging on the Marlins for sticking LoMo is LF still
Especially following knee surgery.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
after they trade Morrison to the Pirates for Xavier Paul or something
you can bet I will
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
So...
I’m a bit disappointed. Not with not getting Beltran, just with not getting any offense so far. It sucks to be a batter or two away from a championship caliber team… Every Year.
The offense has and is good enough to win it with the pitching and defense.
Get it and you have a shot.
I don't want 'good enough'
I want ‘epic’. I want 100+ wins.
Really, I want one more hitter. Why is that too much to ask?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I would love another hitter.
I want the team to improve. But to call this team not a championship caliber team because of lack of offense and can’t win in the playoffs. This team has improved overall since 2008.
not hung up on the words
I defended the 2011 Rays as a playoff-caliber team when people here were calling them an 80-85-win team at the All-Star Break. They can go dumpster diving and be a potential playoff team again in 2012. And yes, the playoffs are a crapshoot, etc.
That being said: we all know the difference between a team you project to win about 90 games and maybe make the playoffs, and a team that you project as a 95-100 win team and a lock for the playoffs. The Rays have been the former. I’d like to see them be the latter.
I can’t fault the Rays for being smarter than the Cardinals. I don’t think I’d want to tie up $26 million in gimpy Carlos Beltran. It’s not Friedman’s fault the Cardinals are dumber than a sack of hammers.
That being said, it’s reasonable to be disappointed today.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Just sign Damon and Pena
1 year deal, trade for Rizzo and have him learn the Rays way in Durham. Start the season.
Under construction
bleah
Pena will probably get something like the deal Beltran just got from those morons in St. Louis; he turned down something like 1/12 in arbitration. Rays aren’t going there, and I’m not convinced Pena doesn’t revert to his 2010 self back in the ALE and the Trop.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I don't know how much better we can do as we continue to sit here and watch everybody sign.
Under construction
hence: bleah
Shields for Morrison and Yelich is starting to sound appealing.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather trade "ace" Price considering what "good" Gio got
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 22, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Price >> Shields in 2012
and I’d like to maximize the 2012 team.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree
But my feeling is that the gap between Price and Shield’s trade value is much, much greater than their talent gap. I could be wrong of course.
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
but most of that surplus value would be long-term pieces
and I want to win now.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
you know
you can hit ‘z’ to skip to unread comments
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
just venting back at you brother
it’s been a rough day
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
FA Hitter or Pitcher?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't make any sense for Pirates though
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Pedro Alvarez is a 1B waiting to happen
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
ha it's been a rough offseason, but I kind of like what AF is doing, just sitting back and sweating out the remnants of who is left over.
To get them cheaper, and make them want to be here more. Beltran was a long shot anyway, but would been nice to splurge a 2yr/20 mil on him (what I thought would take).
Prince is my guess
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Certainly would be nice
Toss on a cpl of MiL deals and we’re ready.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is why part of me wants Andrew Bailey
So we can do something. I know that is stupid but Rays need to do something.
Under construction
For your sake, I hope they do.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Wade Davis for Logan Morrison is just around the corner
(right?)
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
I been on the Joyce at first and just sign a nice DH all offseason. choices are slim considerably now barring a trade.
Maybe we could just ship the Astros Niemann, and get C.Lee and have them eat half of his contract and borrow him for a year. Yeah lets do that.
The Astros won't do that
Niemann is going into arbitration and his health is a concern
That's a terrible trade
3yrs of a 2-3 should get you more than an avg expensive player for 1yr
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, yeah didn't really come across as well as usually lol
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Niemann is a risk to anyone
He’s not a 2-3.
When he's right he is
Better than most FAs out there
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
He's not right enough
Has never pitched more than 180.2 IP in a season.
Been there done that
The Padres aren’t interested in Davis. They want Lee and the Rays won’t do that.
He doesn't control what the Padres FO tells tells the media
Davis won’t get it done.
Wasn't Rizzo for Lee a MLBTR comment in origin?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
That was when I remember seeing it
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
The Padres need a young SS long term
Lee is who they want but it isn’t going to happen
The only people to ever mention Lee in a Rizzo trade are Padre fans
Either on mlb trade rumors or on there forum
Under construction
Rizzo, Guzman, and Gyorko
and they can have HJL
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
really?
I mean, Rizzo and Lee are probably equivalent in value right now, plus Guzman is a nice 2012 fill-in, and I like Gyorko’s OBPness (which is extra fun if you say it out loud).
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
I like Lee's potential better than Rizzo's
But that’s just me
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm probably more optimistic on Brignac than most
and I don’t see Lee as having much more upside than league-average bat. That’s a lot of value, to be sure.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
If he's a ++ Defensive SS
League-avg bat would be awesome. And his style of play fits the Rays perfectly with the bunting and speed.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
a LA bat and +5-10 defense at SS is a 3.5 win player. Rizzo would need to be Longo level with the bat to do that.
shouldn't you be more optimistic about Brignac, then?
I’d say it’s more likely Brignac gets there than Lee at his point.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Not unless that swing becomes flat
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
electrodes?
“every time you hit one in the air, you owe me 25 push-ups?”
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
really? i like briggy a lot. hes actually on my list of hs drafted, rays shortstops i irrationally love.
but i have a hard time seeing a guy with a career wrc+ 39% below league average getting there.
you can't look at his career averages
if 2011 was an outlier. Not saying it definitely was, but it certainly could be.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
he was still 10% below average prior to that with perfect matchups.
id love to believe it, but i think lee is more likely to post a 100 wrc+ at some point in his career than reid. could be wrong though obviously.
He needs some PD
Then with some BBs he could be useable
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think Lee is way more valuable than Rizzo.
Granted I value a potential All-star 1B a lot more than a potential AS 1b.
I think it was a Cubs-Padres trade because the guy forgot Lee was moved
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
No it was worse
They wanted Castro from the Cubs and Lee from us. I doubt the Padres actually expect that….
Under construction
There is virtually no "one" impact bat that one can safely say would make a big difference left on the FA market.
There may be a couple of guys who “if they rebound from a bad year” or “hope that they stay healthy” may help out but that’s about it. Looks like it’s back to mixing and matching a couple of guys who combined may provide suitable production. It may be the cheaper and tried and true method that AF is good at but there is just as good a chance that one of those seasons it doesn’t work out.
And that leaves the trade market to fill in the needs, The problem is that market now becomes very competitive with all teams shut out of the FA market looking to make moves. And while having talent and surplus certainly helps it is not a guarantee that a deal can be worked out. It only takes one GM that values some other teams talent over yours, despite what is perceived as being better players.
Unless, Stu craps out millions and signs Prince Fielder
We need to make some trades.
Under construction
Was a very poor FA class
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you for not mentioning He Who Must Not Be Named.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 22, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Have patience
No move will come until after the new year. Historically AF makes his moves in Jan. The Garza trade was Jan 8th, Manny and Damon signed Jan 21st, Burrell was signed Jan 6th.
Best to wait till Hanukkah is over.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Yes, but their own stupidity prevents it
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
but to be fair
The Joyce deal and Soriano signing were both in early Dec…..scratch the only in Jan theory.
Before Hanukkah, we're in a blackout period right now.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
by Doug09 on Dec 22, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just stating the obvious
Find me one trade that took place in the December 20th’s
http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/trade-partners.cgi?franch_ID_1=TBD&franch_ID_2=ALL
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Just checked, in the history of the franchise the Rays have never made a trade in the 20's of December. Just saying.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
You and Sandy have a thing, so he'd probably be the only one to point it out.
Anyways, I just learned Hanukkah can start in November, I’m dumb.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
he cant point it out... here.
is there a chance the rays could ever play in a november playoff and lose their front office to celebrate with their family?
Late late November like once every XX years.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Haha. Get out.
Lets discuss more basketball n’ wrastlin’.
An off-hand yet not unreasonable explanation as to why things are quiet on the FO front isn’t really off-topic.
(I’m tracking how silly this is, I promise)
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
To be fair
The OTTOTDers lurk here waiting for something to get upset about, and COllette does the same there.
Internet is serious business.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
and FreeZo watches omnisciently
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
this is dobber-level tastelessness
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
AF is waiting for some key things to play out
-What will happen in Cali? Is Kendrys Morales healthy and on the market? Will they listen on Trumbo or Abreau?
-Where does Prince end up and who will make a run at Pena and Lee?
-who will be left out on Oswalt, Garza and Kuroda?
-Will Damon sign on the cheap and accept a reduced role?
-Will SD get desperate to move Rizzo?
-Where will Scott end up?
-Will Drew, Matsui or Posada sign for a steal and be happy playing a reduced role?
Until Fielder signs, the whole 1B/DH market is frozen
But all I know is if I was a marginal 1B/DH-I’d be very worried about getting a job.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
answers
1. There’s no way to know what Morales can do, and thus no way to count on him.
2. Possibly, but the Angels are going to want too much for Trumbo, and Abreu probably isn’t any better than Damon at this point (although distributed differently).
3. Teams with a hell of a lot more money than the Rays.
4. Good question.
5. Yes.
6. Yes.
7. Probably here.
8. No.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
There can be no reduced role for Damon
He is either the full time DH or he’s not…cheap or not. And I don’t think his production will be up to the level of what the Rays need out of the spot, especially if they are “hoping” that another productive bat is added at 1st base.
They will sign Edwin Jackson-best FA SP left
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Some team with too much money and not enough time to spend it all
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
there are an awful lot of idiots out there
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
He's not that bad, but with Boras as an agent-you know someone will overpay
wouldn’t be surprised to see like the Yankees maybe sign him if the price is ok
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Dec 22, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
add Ibanez to the list.
by far, the best club house FA available. of course what can of contract will land him and can he adjust to the DH. certainly his bad fielding doesn’t work in TB
3rd highest AAV for a position player. Behind only Pujols and Reyes.
More than Kubel, Rollins, A-Ram, Willingham and Cuddyer.
Good for him.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
yeah, I wish to revise my earlier opinion on the Ramirez deal
he’s old, but at least Ramirez isn’t going to get hurt on day 4 trying to play centerfield
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 23, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
From the Padres source (its posted on mlbtraderumors)
The Rays and Padres don’t only match up but the Padres also love both Neimann and Davis. They were also trying to trade Rizzo before they even got Yonder so I think we are the ones low balling them. It’s not them asking for too much.
Under construction
from a MLBTR story or comments?
We’re talking about 2 completely different levels of credibility and sensibility there
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 23, 2011 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
It's basically the Padres Marc Topkin
http://www.signonsandiego.com/padres-chat/
80% of that chat is about Rizzo. The things I found most interesting were they were already trying to trade Rizzo before even getting Alonso and they love both Davis and Neimann.
Under construction
Neimann/Davis and Canzler for Rizzo, Guzman and another B/C prospect
Get Guzman who can at least come in and play 1st base now and Rizzo to develop one more year. Maybe if they both work out, the Rays have their tandem 1st/DH at some point.
Padres get a starter they seem to covet plus Canzler replaces the 1st/OF guys they give up. Still leaves them Alonso, Blanks and Kotsay for tose spots.

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