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All Quiet on the Eastern Front: Will it Remain That Way?

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From Wikipedia: the book All Quiet on the Western Front describes the German soldiers' extreme physical and mental stress during the war, and the detachment from civilian life felt by many of these soldiers upon returning home from the front (WWI). If you are a fan of an AL East team, especially a team that is usually a mover and shaker during the early winter months, this offseason may be causing some physical and mental stress due to the inactivity and judging by my twitter feed Yankee and Red Sox fans are quite restless.

For the first time in a number of years every move that a team makes in the American League this winter isn't seen through the prism of "is it enough to catch the Yankees or Red Sox?" Kind of refreshing to think that as of now, in my opinion, the Yankees and Red Sox have to ask if they have enough to keep up with the Rays who finished the last two months of the regular season with a 35-20 record while scoring 4.6 runs per game. The end of 2011 also showed how explosive Matt Moore can be and the emergence of left fielder Desmond Jennings.

As we head into the holidays let's take a look at the moves that the other teams in the AL East have made. And since the free agent market and trade market has began to settle down the field of trade partners and the available free agents is beginning to become more into focus; therefore, predictions may become a little more on target.

Feel free to use this thread to post your thoughts on what the other teams in the AL East may do over the remaining month and a half of the offseason and how these moves may affect the Rays in 2012 as well as what moves you anticipate the Rays making via free agent signings or trades. Remember to hashtag your predictions in the comments section or on Twitter with #DRBPrediction if you want to be included in the official DRaysBay Prediction Tracking.

Star-divide

The Yankees big moves has bee the re-signing of CC Sabathia, who opted out of his contract, and Freddie Garcia. Neither move inspires the usual glitz and glamour of landing a big time free agent signing to catapult the team to certain World Series favorites.

BrandonC over at Pinstripealley asks: Does the New York Yankees Answer to their Rotation "Problem" Lie Within.

Richard Justice of mlb.com discusses the Yankees quiet offseason and suggests that this offseason may be an example of Brian Cashman exerting more control over the operations and viewing this as a transitional phase where the Yankees return to growing Yankees.

Jonah Keri has an outstanding piece at Grantland titled Counting Pennies and Clipping Coupons in the Bronx. It is a fantastic read and its final sentence wonders about how George would feel about all of this:

The New York Yankees have become more frugal than they have in years, with enough patience to make them baseball's most unlikely story of Zen. Wonder what George would say if he could see them now.


The Red Sox were stung early in the winter when closer Jonathon Papelbon jumped ship to head to the Philadelphia Phillies. In an effort to replace some of the back end bullpen depth the Sox dealt Kyle Weiland and Jed Lowrie to the Astros for reliever Mark Melancon. To add depth to the bench the Red Sox have signed Nick Punto and Kelly Shoppach. The Red Sox big move has been the re-signing of DH David Ortiz.

If any one area of the Red Sox could be pointed at as the reason for their late season collapse it would be the starting rotation. With the tumultuous end of the 2011 season and replacing of GM Theo Epstein with Ben Cherington and Manager Terry Francona with Bobby Valentine it would seem logical next step for the Red Sox would be to begin the process of filling out their rotation.

The Red Sox have only three starters returning from the 2011 team, Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, and Clay Buchholz. Thus far the Red Sox were unable to land Trevor Cahill or Gio Gonzalez, were not a big player in the C.J. Wilson talks, and didn't seem to be interested in Yu Darvish. The Red Sox could still land a starting pitcher such as Hiroki Kuroda, Edwin Jackson, or Roy Oswalt via free agency or could pick up a Wandy Rodriguez or Matt Garza in trade but the lack of addressing this area has been a mystery thus far.

Marc Normandin at OverTheMonster posted an open thread for the Red Sox fans to discuss their Starting Pitching Preferences. Alex Speir of WEEI discusses the transition of Daniel Bard and Alfredo Aceves from the bullpen to the rotation and discusses Why Red Sox Face a Complex Move.


The Blue Jays,as well as the Red Sox and Yankees, have been linked to brand name players like Carlos Beltran and Prince Fielder and were supposedly the runner up in the bid to land Japanese pitcher Yu Darvish but thus far have made very little moves. The Jays big move this offseason has been trading prospect Nestor Molina to the Chicago White Sox for closer in Sergio Santos.

Alex Anthopolous has been a very active GM during his tenure in Toronto. He has been able to turn over most of the roster including removing the albatross contracts of Vernon Wells and Alex Rios, he's added depth to the minor league system, and added Colby Rasmus at the trade deadline in 2011. The Blue Jays were unable to win the Yu Darvish posting, were unable to land Carlos Beltran, and were unwilling to match prospect packages for Mat Latos or Gio Gonzalez. The Blue Jays seem unwilling to go beyond 5 years in a contract offer which seems to take them out of the Prince Fielder negotiations so it appears as if the Blue Jays will not be making a big splash this offseason. Tom Dakers at BlueBirdBanter says:

Anyway, it got me thinking, do the Jays really need to make a 'big splash'? We've had a year of big moves. Marcum for Lawrie. Farquhar and Magunson for Davis. Wells for not having to pay Wells. Napoli for Francisco. Hill and McDonald for Johnson. A half dozen middle relievers for Rasmus.

They were all pretty big moves, but the Jays still have to "prove" to folks that they want to win. And they have to do it now. Right now. You'd think Alex would have built up a little good will in us by now. We could give him a bit of time. He does seem to know what he is doing.


This winter the Orioles have dipped into the international market by signing pitcher Tsuyoshi Wada and signed reserve outfielder Endy Chavez. They have also been mentioned as a possible landing spot for Prince Fielder and have been rumored to be in trade discussions with the Atlanta Braves centered around Adam Jones for some of the Braves pitching depth.

At the end of the winter the Orioles are often the team that has removed several older overpriced players with other older overpriced players. The result of constantly making these lateral moves has been 14 consecutive years finishing under the .500 mark. This winter the team has taken a risk in signing Wada but has resisted to be the early entrant for the older player that is on the market. Dan Duquette has taken over as the GM and along with Buck Showalter may have enough experience and stubbornness to convince owner Peter Angelos to allow them to build the Orioles in a slightly different manner.

Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun looks at the Orioles pursuit of Fielder and Edwin Jackson, is Adam Jones untouchable, and are Mark Reynolds and Jeremy Guthrie the best trade chips Baltimore has.

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Checking In On The AL East

May 2012 by mr. maniac - 163 comments

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Derek Lee, Johnny Damon, Jorge Posada

I’m ok with Lobaton catching 60 games and getting PH for by Posada, also allowing Jorge to catch 25 games or so. Afterall this team won 96 games in ’10 with Jaso as the primary catcher from July forward

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Dec 24, 2011 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

Posada caught 1 game last year. He is done as a catcher.

And the Rays will not carry Damon AND Posada to dual DH or just Posada to PH. He duplicates Damon from the left side and is terrible against RH’ers. Now, if you are suggesting one or the other, that’s different. Although I think the Rays could do better finding a full time DH, who can outproduce them and maybe be able to play a position(decently) to increase Maddon’s flexibility.

by budman3 on Dec 24, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

And you know differently because?

They let 2 rookies – Montero & Romine – start 11 games while Posada caught just one. They even let that godawful overrated stiff Cervelli start 35 games last season over Posada. It’s a simple eye test that Jorge’s arm strength is gone and everyone can run on him at will. 14 for his last 72 on throwing guys out. Some of that is on AJ Burnett, but that’s a 16% success rate on a staff that had Andy Pettitte on it in 2010.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

It's my theory. Zobrist is the full time 2B, which means the need for E. Johnson's role is gone

Now you can utilize his role with more of a bat and an occasional positional player. Maybe Johnny Gomes instead of Jorge. However i still don’t see this team with a Molina/Lobaton catching platoon

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Dec 24, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

How about Ramon Castro?

He’s a FA, isn’t he? Hits lefties well. Not god awful against righties. Seems to be a decent defender at a quick look at the numbers.

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, should be about half the price of Molina.

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Chris Snyder ?

He can hit lefties, but I don’t know about his defense or health.

by MakeitRayn on Dec 24, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

So, in essence, carrying 2.5/3 catchers?

If that were the case, I think Doumit would have been courted stronger, unless they want to spot start Posada only when Shields and the death pickoff move are in play.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

To be honest,

I’m enjoying your brand of whatever you do to the Barton love letters of Budman3. Keep up the good work.

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

So many here feel the Rays have to settle for the miracle of a minor league free agent

I’m so thankful the FO isn’t all about this philosophy

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Dec 24, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Pena, Kotchman, Peralta type moves set that kind of expectation

Still holding out for a Betemit addition….

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

fine with the 1B/DH angle

but they’d have to find a RH 1B/DH option type to make it work. Maybe that’s Canzler if they trust his abilities. In fact, it would have to be as the remaining FA possibilities at 1st that are within the Rays’ price range all stink vs LHP

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree. Where is the Luke Scott love that was burning up this place last year?

Is there no chatter about him? I’m guessing too expensive, although Beltran for $10mill a year is a big offer, not that Scott is on the same planet. I also really do not understand the lack of Kotchman love. A statistical anomaly for a year is hard to imagine. Maybe he just sees the ball better at the Trop like BJ at Camden. Put Joyce behind Longo. Although I distinctly recall people arguing that protection is not a real phenomenon but a perceived one. May be more psychological depending on the pitcher.

by playjoyce on Dec 24, 2011 2:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

no one wants to jinx it

once Scott signs, the remaining DH options are truly uninspiring.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 24, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm totally okay with Matt Joyce DHing

Can Luke Scott be average at defense at 1b?

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

This puts Guyer in right with a .195 avg last year in the majors.

I know he is projected to improve dramatically, but it is still risky. Give me kotch at 1b, Joyce in RF and Scott as DH. This seems like a pretty good hitting club. League average bats with top tier pitching. I agree that one more power bat in addition to Scott would be great, but how will that affect defense?

by playjoyce on Dec 24, 2011 3:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You having to be god damn kidding me.

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for removing the post.

You have been issued a warning.
Settle down….Seasons Greetings
In order to continue participating on DRaysBay you must acknowledge your warning by pressing the OK button below.

I hope no one important saw it!

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

OT: I'm doing some last minute shopping, and I want to get my dad (who isn't into stats but is/was smart enough to get into them and understand them) some type of baseball book.

I admit that I have never really read any statistical or baseball-efficiency books, so I need some help. I need something that is simple enough for a non-stat person to be able to get introduced too. It would help if it was something I could get at a bookstore, but I guess I don’t mind if it shapes in late.

Thanks. As of right now, I am leaning towards Moneyball.

by mr. maniac on Dec 24, 2011 11:05 AM EST reply actions  

Moneyball is a a great book

There are huge flaws with the book (i.e. A chapter talking about how Hatteberg was essential to team success but only 3 pages on the big 3 pitchers who were the real reason for success) but it is a fascinating read and extremely well executed. If you are going less stat driven you should check out The Teammates which is a great book about the greatest hitter of all time.

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Dec 24, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

By the time I read it

(~2 months after it came out), most of the stuff a DRB reader would have learned from the book, had been discussed on DRB and other places as well (Drafting Pujols, sneaky Namoli, video game competitions, and positive arbitrage). It’s a good book to give to friends/family that are fans, but don’t know what GOAT or STFD mean.

"It was a little weird seeing Ashley running at me with a closed fist. That was a scary look."-Matt Moore

by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 24, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Veeck as in Wreck

Autobiography of Bill Veeck. Easily my favorite baseball read

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

the nice thing about Moneyball

is that it is exceptionally well-written independent of the baseball content. After reading it, I went and read everything Michael Lewis has ever written, most of which is really, really good as well.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 24, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

sort of OT to your OT

not the stats oriented you mentioned, but great reads for a Dad (meaning a little older) would be The Catcher Was A Spy and Only the Ball Was White. Two of my favorite all time baseball books.

pitching is like real estate . . . .location, location, location

by changeup31 on Dec 24, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

#servicetimechamps

Moore starts the first month in the minors to monitor his inning, so he doesn’t have to be shut down at the end of the year. Meanwhile, Niemann has a strong month is moved at a higher value than he would right now.

by MakeitRayn on Dec 24, 2011 11:10 AM EST reply actions  

This may not be exactly what you want,

but I suggest “The Numbers Game” by Alan Schwarz. It is really a history of the development and use of statistics more than an analysis of the stats themselves.

I like it as an introduction because it fixes contemporary developments firmly into the natural development of efforts to understand the game. It demonstrates that there is nothing heretical about modern stats: rather it shows that they are a product of evolution. At the same time, it does explain some of the more accessible ones.

by bobr on Dec 24, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions  

Oops again,

I am sure I hit reply before writing to mr. maniac.

by bobr on Dec 24, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

Trade Davis to the A's for Brian Fuentes and Daric Barton

A’s pay 3 million of Fuentes 5 million salary and save 3.5 all together and get a solid experienced workhorse type starter in Davis. They have little experience or depth in their rotation now. Plus he is cost controlled for the next three years(1.5, 2.8 and 4.8). Beane can move him by that 3rd season. Rays get a decent reliever(pitched well the last 2 months) who can still get lefties out and is insurance as a closer if Farnsworth gets hurt.

Barton, well you know, I like him as a cheaper replacement for Kotchman but to satisfy those who don’t, trade a B/C prospect to the Padres for their surplus 1st baseman in Guzman(a RH’ed hitter). I liked what he did in half a year with them last season in a tough place to hit and has always been a very good hitter and OBP in the minors. At 27, he is not a prospect but could give the Rays a solid performer for next year. He could platoon with Barton at first and play some 3rd base if needed.

And satisfy everyone else at this point, go ahead and sign Scott to DH and hope he rebounds with big power numbers as the DH. Could probably sign him for 3 million dollars with incentives. The combination of Scott, Barton and Guzman gives Maddon a great deal of flexibility in using them as 1st baseman/DH’s, PH’ers, defensive specialists(Barton) on a daily basis depending on match-ups. The added cost(with A’s chipping in some salary) would only amount to 4-5 million increase for 2012.

by budman3 on Dec 24, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions  

I hope the grinch pillages your place tonight.

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

That's not even enough.

This is so god damn awful, I don’t even know where to start.

Davis for a no hit 1b and a can’t pitch middle reliever who used to close but can’t anymore because he sucks?

Let’s just burn Davis alive and not F up the team by acquiring this trash. That’s a better option than this.

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Davis for Carlos Zambrano

do it….screw the salaries

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Forget Carlos.

BRING BACK VICTOR!

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

You are right about not enough...add a fair prospect of your choice and see what you think.

Remember though the Rays brought in a no hit 1st baseman(Kotchman) and a 35 year old reliever (Peralta)who many questioned last season. It’s about filling needs with cheap, experienced veterans who will be accepting of roles..something AF and Maddon both like.

Take this move with the corresponding ones and look at the big picture.

by budman3 on Dec 24, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Not enough was referring to what I wanted the Grinch to do to you.

And dude, Kotch was the back up plan. I doubt they expected him to start nearly the entire season.

And Peralta was coming off an amazing season. I don’t remember too many people being really hesitant about him. I want quotes.

Couldn’t we get guys like these off the scrap heap in FA? Why trade Davis for this crap?

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Waiting for Prince to sign

I think its best to wait for Prince to sign somewhere. Where ever he goes he may free up another player for a trade and create more leverage in the Rizzo situation.

by MakeitRayn on Dec 24, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention the 1B market is flooded

You still have a guy like Pena out there who is in limbo until Fielder signs

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Dec 24, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Kotchman was ON A MINOR LEAGUE DEAL

and Peralta was NONTENDERED. we gave up exactly zero value for them and dropped either for minimal losses if they didn’t produce. we did not, nor will we, TRADE MAJOR LEAGUE STARTERS for some like that. Jesus Mary and Joseph.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 24, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Well done!!!

I am not the biggest Davis fan, though I have always thought he had talent, but Barton should cost almost nothing and Fuentes is terrible.

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Dec 24, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

flagged for G-d

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 24, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

from Maury

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

I like how the 2000 team had a payroll of 60+

When they had no reason to be lol

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Dec 24, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

factoring in inflation, that's $79,742,937 in today's dollars

over 69 wins, it cost $1.16M per team win

2011 salary was $43,171,308 for 2011. Over 91 wins, it cost $474,410K per win

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

using this

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

took the 2000 payroll and converted to 2011 dollars

$61,231,853 in 2000 is $79,742,937 today

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 24, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

wow those New York Yankees sure are spending a lot less lately!

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 24, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Merry Christmas everyone

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 24, 2011 3:20 PM EST reply actions  

Christmas already?

I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta

by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 24, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Time flies when you are talking about trades for Daric Barton and Fuentes.

I didn’t realize it took all day to write down my projected 2012 lineup with those two.

I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta

by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 24, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I find this post highly offensive

Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.

by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT

by Doug09 on Dec 24, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

It is, however, less offensive than the Wade for Barton trade.

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

take your incorrect religions and shove 'em. Mairy Chrimbus Doug.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 24, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

A's allowed to move to San Jose

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/24/2659585/oakland-as-relocate-san-jose/in/2405556

Am I the only one flagging this guy? 
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 24, 2011 6:39 PM EST reply actions  

This should cut the number of parking lot deaths in half.

Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.

by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT

by Doug09 on Dec 24, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

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