The Rays Tank: Winter Meetings
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 9:26 AM EST
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PrintMarc Topkin reminded us in today's paper that the Rays have done at least one move in each of the past four winter meetings. In 2007, the Rays moved Elijah Dukes for Glenn Gibson, in 2008 the team moved Edwin Jackson for Matt Joyce, in 2009 the $7M closer that was not going to be found was found in Rafael Soriano, and last season the Jason Bartlett trade was agreed upon in Orlando. Note that none of the moves have involved free agent signings and that only Troy Percival and Jose Molina have been signed as free agents prior to the winter meetings under Andrew Friedman (thank you Josh Frank's infographic).
It was nice to be on site for the action last season in Orlando, but a family vacation interferes with participating this year in Dallas so nobody from the staff will be on site this season. If you are on Twitter, #wintermeetings is the hashtag some are using to follow the news online. If you would like to view pre-populated lists, here is one for beat writers around the league and here is one of baseball writers at either the national level or non-mainstream team sites like ours. After watching the meetings from the inside last season, everything breaks on Twitter, then the writers write their stories and then tweet out the link to the stories. It is all about instant news these days. For funsies, you may want to keep a spreadsheet of who tweets what, where those players actually go, and who is the most accurate.
Topkin, Roger Mooney, and Bill Chastain are the three featured beat writers in the market and each will be in Dallas to cover the meetings. Each has recent articles on what to expect from the meetings as well:
- Chastain points out the roster is much more settled than it was at this point last year in the mass financial exodus
- Mooney states that the Rays will have to pay to play in the offensive free agent market or the trade market as well as what the depth chart will look like at certain positions.
- Topkin recently chatted with Johnny Muscles who remains serious about wanting to return to the Rays.
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Trade for Yonder Alonso
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
next move guess: trade
Rays acquire 1B/OF Logan Morrison from the Marlins for Jeff Niemann, Alex Colome, and a PTBNL.
Wont happen
Lomo just recently got surgery for his knee. And the Marlins have already said they want James Shields for LoMo, nothing less. Rays will not part with Shields for LoMo.
by Nick Mattingly on Dec 4, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
It's called "talk."
The Marlins are trying to get the most for their player. Of course they’re looking for an outrageous price in return. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Mike Stanton for shields
Yessir
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Dec 4, 2011 8:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
given the insanity currently occupying the Marlins' front office
I could see that actually happening. If so, I would petition the U.S. Congress to rename that day “Andrew Friedman Day” and make it a new federal holiday.
seems highly unlikely
As I’ve said elsewhere, word is that Pena is going to turn down the Cubs’ offer of arbitration. Given that he would get something on the order of $12MM in arbitration, it’s pretty clear that he’s looking for — and expecting to get — a multi-year offer, something on the order of 3/33 (if I had to guess).
So I don’t see him coming back to the Rays.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 4, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah i would agree that it's a long shot.
But i see the current window starting to close after 2013. I’d just love to see him back here for 2 years
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Why will it close after 2013?
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Price and Shields will be hard to hold onto.
Hellickson and Moore will be getting expensive. Zobrist will be getting older and Longo will be close to opting out of his contract. I don’t think we’re going to suck in 2014 but 2012 and 13 should be years we really move to win.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Longo can't "opt out" of his contract and Zobrist's young for his age because he's only been a full time major leaguer for 3 years
By then Hak Ju Lee will be an all star, Matt Moore will be well established, we’ll have gotten back an assload of talent to contribute to our team for Price when he’s traded, and Desmond Jennings will be coming into his prime
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 4, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
and by '14 the greatness of Josh Sale and Justin O'Conner should be bestowed upon us
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Glad to see you are coming around on those guys
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
i could have sworn he had a mutual option after 2014 and not just a team option.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Nope
Team has to exercise final 2 options by November of 2014
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Thats great to know.
either way , i think we are primed to win now. it’s really hard to sustain excellence for 6 or 7 years in a row with our payroll.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
The Rays have already done 4 years.
Not too far off at this point. I think it’ll happen. It did take some hard work on Friedman and Maddon’s parts though.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Believe me. I hope it happens. I'm a die hard fan
also i like to try and temper expectations i may have.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see anything stopping them from continuing their success, do you?
They’re a young, cost controlled team with only a few needs and/or wants. I don’t think this team is going to undergo any sort of major renovation for a few more seasons at least.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
The only thing i see stopping them is....
Prospects beginning to not pan out like they have been. Injuries catching up to our pitching staff.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
There's so many prospects, by the time 2014-2015 rolls around, it's hard to imagine that there aren't at least SOME of them that end up being solid to great MLB players.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Totally agree. I don't see us rolling over and dying.
I just see a drop off for a year or 2 and then right back in the hunt.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
The Rays are practically the same team in 2012 as in 2011
and they made the playoffs with the opposite of Pena at 1b. Not sure why they need to bring him back.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Trade Wade Davis for Yonder Alonso.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Ignore this, it wasn't meant to be a reply.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Daniel Murphy
A player I like who is blocked and said to be available is NY Mets jack of all trades Daniel Murphy. I would use him as the semi full time DH letting Damon go. Murphy would provide insurance at third, first, second and the OF. He would provide Maddon with another toy to match up with.
Chris Archer and Kyle Lobstein would be my offer to the pitching starved Mets.
That sounds like an overpay for Murphy.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind Murphy, but for nothing more than one of the lower pitching prospects who is less likely to pan out in the majors.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Bill James predicts
.302 avg .355 obp .456 slug and .811 ops. Those numbers bury Damon and he provides versality. You still have Niemann-Davis to move for your middle of the order hitter.
Bill James projections tend to lean toward incredibly optimistic
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
his 2011 numbers were better the James predicts
.320 avg, .362 obp, .448 slug , .809 ops
After missing all of 2010 and bouncing around postions I would expect a solid year from Murphy.
I think he played over his head last season, and he still showed little power.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
28 doubles in 391 ab's
38 doubles in 2009. Played in a pitchers park. His ops went up to .837 on the road.
The Trop isn't going to be any friendlier to him than Citi.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
He would like Yankee stadium from the left side
He had 11126 minor league ab’s .295 ,.356 , .452, .808
1030 MLB ab’s .292 .343 .441 .784
With all the low OBP guys at the bottom of the Rays order a consistent hitter who works pitchers would be welcome.
That's too bad he's only going to play like 9 games there if he's on the Rays
The only place he fits here is at 1b, and is he really the 1b you want? Unless, like I said earlier, the Mets take a less than good prospect for him, no deal. I’d like him as a back up and utility player, but I’m not giving anything up for him.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
And not nearly that long
I’ll take 1 more year of him.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
38 yr olds on multi-year deals are not good business
Team option, maybe but 2 yrs guaranteed would be a poor decision. It’s tough to hold up over the course of a full season at his age & 2nd half splits are showing a trend:
2009: 269 PA – .290/.369/.462
2010: 277 PA – .267/.347/.377
2011: 292 PA – .238/.325/.401
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure if you understood.
What I meant by “1 more year of him” was next season only, not the next 2 seasons.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm guessing he meant to reply to Mr. Mattingly.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
*choke*
my guess is we’re looking at a sub-$3MM deal, or maybe 2.5MM with a 2013 team option and $500K buyout. But I doubt Damon gets much more than that.
I'd take that, but I see maybe $4M.
Who knows, he could be considering retirement. It might take a bit more to lure him back. I’m not saying there is a good chance he retires, but if he sees that he’s getting offered $2.5M, he might just quit.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Probably
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
why commit so soon?
I think they will wait to see what else is out there first. JD has no other options.
Trade Wade Davis for Yonder Alonso
I’m praying for this.
Friedman is only saying he wont trade any of his starting pitchers to just drive the value of them up.
And you're the guy who made the post about the Marlins only wanting Shields?
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Trade Davis
Try to trade Wade Davis for either Yonder Alonso or Logan Morrison.
At least two, possibly all three of these will be back
in Rays uniforms for the coming season, Kelly Shoppach, Casey Kotchman, Johnny Damon—Book it
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I highly doubt Shoppach is coming back after the Molina signing.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I feel like Wade Davis would be a bit of an overpay for Yonder Alonso
Who isn’t a proven commodity at the major league level by any measure
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 4, 2011 11:27 AM EST reply actions
Agree 100%
I’m not on board with the Yonder love fest yet.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Me, neither.
I’d LOVE Logan Morrison, but he seems less and less likely, and I just want to know who will be playing 1b, and hopefully for a long time, so I’ll root for almost anyone at this point.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Deal from a position of strength.
If it’s an overpay, it’s probably slight. You have to give to fill gaps, especially at 1b it seems, unless you want to REALLY overpay in FA.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I'd give up Torres for him and stop there.
Davis has not been great but has been Solid in the AL East. Alonso has done nothing to prove he can play in the bigs yet.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
He was excellent in his call up in 2011.
SSS, but he was really, really good. Again, I’m not all for trading for him, but I just want something to happen at this point.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Torres did look great in his cup of coffee
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
i agree with you.
he needs to gain command of his pitches or he’s destined to BB 5 per 9
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Overall, he did look like the type to drive managers, coaches and fans crazy
Come in and walk the whole lineup
But, he seems fine with pressure, how huge was he against the Jays? And we needed that game. Huge in the way he pitched, of course, he is a tiny guy.
Under construction
Problem with Torres is that he has soooo much movement on his FB
that he has no idea where it’s going.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
.330 in 47 games isn't bad
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
How many AB's?
also after pitchers get the book on him , can he adjust?
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
98 PA.
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by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Ugh, don't bring that up
I’m already worried enough about teams figuring out Helly and Moore their 2nd time around. Pitchers found a weak spot in Jennings bat towards the end of the season but he did look damn good in the playoffs so maybe he already fixed it.
Under construction
Moore is as filthy as they come.
Only thing stopping his is if his arm falls off.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the same of Price
While he had a solid year last year and he was much better than his W-L, he was not dominant often enough and he was not even our own ace, he gave that back to Shields.
Under construction
Price is also filthy but i think Moore has better command than Price right now.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
God forbid Price wasn't the "ace"
When Shields pitched out of his mind. Price would’ve had to have been top 2 in the CYA to be better.
Price was better in 2011 than he was in 2010 by most measures outside of ERA.
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Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Better command
I think there were more than a few games that he was exposed as a 1 pitch pitcher. When he finally started to dominate for a stretch, a bat smacked his chest.
He needs that awesome change up to be more consistent, sometimes he goes back to slowing his body down and that’s when he needs to spot the fastball all game, perfectly or he wont do well.
Under construction
Just because we have a surplus of pitchers doesn't mean we should be willing to overpay
Almost every team in baseball needs pitching. We have the leverage.
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 4, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
But they don't have the players the Rays need.
Or the depth to trade them if they do.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Everytime I read the 8 starters thing
I think in reality, we have 7, it would take a trade AND an injury or 2 to get Torres starting. If Archer is having a good year in Durham, he will prob move ahead of Torres in the SP depth chart.
I know that Neimann can go through stretches where he might even be our best SP but he gets hurt every year and he sucks for a few games before telling anyone. Davis is incosistently consistent…move him to pen, I’ll change my dream rotation to Shields, Price, Helly, Moore and Cobb (Cobb instead of Davis)
1 or 2 innings of Davis throwing 96 and his curve would be nasty. Neimann should have trade value because a lot of teams (hell, the Red Sox better than anyone actually) know what he can do when he’s on his game.
Under construction
Davis's contract would be horrific down the road if he's anything but a closer or a starter.
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Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I said Neimann for a 1B this year
Next year, with Archer also joining the ready MLB starters group, hopefully. We can deal Davis for a LF/CF since I don’t think any of us see the Rays signing Upton long term.
Under construction
Mahtook will be roaming LF in 2013
no need to trade Niemann for an OF
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
You expect him to climb all 3 levels of the system in one season (2012)?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think he will be here by mid season 2013
i feel he is very advanced at the plate but certainly could be derailed in AA
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
He is very advanced, no argument
He’s also playing in the wrong system to only need 1 year in the minors. Friedman and co will find something that he needs to work on and keep him down longer than you think.
Under construction
I could easily see Torres picking up an early season start.
Cobb will need a few starts in Durham rehabbing and Moore there avoiding service time. Torres is just a injury to one of our top 5 away from starting the season as the 5th starter. Granted the 5th starter role may be diminished early in the season with weather days and scheduled days off allowing a team to skip the 5th in the rotation. Once May comes around though I agree with you 100%, Torres is not a starter on this team.
by Moore Guerreri and Cheese on Dec 4, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Rays are able to pry away
either Lomo or Gaby Sanchez from the Marlins for Niemann/Davis(whoever the Marlins prefer) and a lower level prospect. While I prefer Lomo, I wouldnt mind Gaby that much either. It would help the Marlins too because either trade should get LoMo out of their outfield.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
I'd take Sanchez at a lower price.
I think he is what he is with little to no potential left. I’ll take it, though.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yea
As Sandals mentioned, Gaby is what he is, he doesnt have the upside Lomo has, but he is still a solid average 1st baseman. He takes walks, Bill James projects him to hit 20 HR’s, and I think he is at least an average 1st baseman on D.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 4, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know.
Probably, but I’d like it to be a last resort.
He doesn’t have a ton of power, nor does he hit for a great average. The Trop might kill his bat.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
easily a go
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 5, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Sanchez
I like him as a buy-low target because I think he’s going to be essentially discarded by the Marlins, but we’re talking about a 28-year-old, right-handed 1B who’s been 10% better than league average at the plate. Oh, and he’s arb eligible in 2013.
Objectively, how is that more valuable than a league-average starting pitcher?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 5, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Also Jim Bowden tweeted
that the Rays are 1 of 6 teams in on Luis Ayala. He would be an alright signing. He put up a good ERA last year with Yanks, but I think his FIP was much higher. Did have a nice GB% though I think.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
1st interest in that was around 2 weeks ago
Peralta deal would be his max; Peralta was much better stuff & results wise this time last year
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
The interesting thing about Ayala is that GB rate
50% last year and Yanks MIF is meh, Cano is great but Jeter….yeah, he still did very well anyway.
With S-Rod/Brignac and Zo up the middle, he can be really good.
I am gonna think of Longoria’s 3 run bomb every time I see him so at the least, he’s going to give me nice memories.
Under construction
I don't really think Cano is all that great defensively, either
better than Jeter, which is of course the definition of damning with faint praise.
UZR has Cano at a little below average
but he’s much better than he used to be.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Ayala is a ground ball pitcher, but 50% is high for him.
In his last 4 major league seasons, his GB rates were:
2009: 37.2
2008: 45.6
2007: 40.4
2005: 42.9
He did not play in the majors in 2010 or 2006.
Over the same period, his K and BB rates were:
2009: 6.30K, 3.15BB
2008: 5.95K, 2.85BB
2007: 5.95K, 2.55BB
2005: 5.07K, 1.77BB
In 2011, it was 6.27K & 3.21BB. The general uptick in K rate (still not particularly good for a reliever) is balanced by a similar uptick in BB/9.
In 2009, his last season before 2011, his FIP was 4.67 & xFIP was 4.89. It was better in 2011, it was better but still over 2 worse than his 2.09 ERA. His HR/9 of 2011 was the first under 1 since 2005.
I do not see the attraction to him. One superficially good season in a career of mediocrity or worse. Seems to me he is worth no more than an invite to spring training. If someone else is willing to guarantee a contract over minimum, I cannot see the Rays outbidding for him, unless there is something the scouts are seeing that indicates he really is a different pitcher from his career performance.
His FIP was double his ERA. His xFIP was right up there with it.
I’ll pass on Ayala. 2011 was the first time he’d been worthwhile since 2007. Lucky guy.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
How is this on topic?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
A post about fan reactions to winter meetings in a thread about winter meetings?
Bannable
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
I can't figure out what's allowed on here anymore.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
There are 6 guidelines...you act as if there is 69
It is not that difficult to discern topical posts
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Prediction: Prince Fielder signed to a 8/175 deal to be team's DH
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 4, 2011 1:46 PM EST reply actions
Better email them your address.
Done deal. That book is yours.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Wade Davis, Alex Colome, Tyler Bortnick for LoMo and Emilio Bonifacio
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 4, 2011 1:53 PM EST reply actions
selling low on future elliot johnson!
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
For Colome(who is still highly thought of I guess) and Bortnick,
we should get Yelich or a good hitter back, not Bonafacio.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 4, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
The Astros maybe...
Since i could probably play for them.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Well I guess lookin at his stats again,
he was worth 3.3 WAR this year, but still he relies on very high BABIP for that success, this year was really his first year of offensive success to. I didnt know he had this good of a year this year.Only 5 HR’s but also 40 SB and a .360 OBP. I still wouldnt trade Colome for him though.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 4, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
The funny thing is, if S-Rod was doing this, we'd be drooling all over him
let’s remember how hard it is to get a decent bat at SS. Even if Bonifacio hits .270 and nabs 30-40 SB, you mean to tell me you wouldn’t be pleased with that? C’mon, man!
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 4, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
if S-Rod had a -13.6 UZR/150 at short
nobody would be drooling. Bonifacio isn’t a shortstop — not even in an organization with Hanley Ramirez alternating between standing around doing nothing and sulking in that little patch of dirt between second and third base.
I was being a little sarcastic when I said “who wants Bonifacio” — he’s obviously a guy with potential uses. But I’m not sure he’s a fit on the Rays even if he were non-tendered (he’s going to earn $4MM in arbitration?), let alone that any team would buy him at the obvious height of his value.
Add into that the fact that he’d be a 1B/DH on the Rays, and you have a non-fit.
Before Budman gets dibs on these...
Nick Punto – 3yrs, $10 million
Trade Evan Longoria for Daric Barton
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
Book is on the way...enjoy
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Which reliever(s) does anyone predict the Rays sign yet this off-season?
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 4, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions
I've been saying Luis Ayala, but the guys a few posts up made some good points.
If that doesn’t happen, I don’t see any major league deals being made. Wuertz, Zumaya, Neshek, maybe even Juan Cruz again. It’s very interesting that we contacted Cordero and went after Broxton.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Cordero is crap.
But I do hope Zumaya signs here. I doubt it, though, because there’s probably a number of teams interested.
Next in line, I’d like Wuertz.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
How does everyone feel about bringing back Camp?
Also, lets not forget Rich Harden, he would be nice to have out of the pen.
Under construction
Camp? I'd rather see us sign nobody and let Bush start with the team.
Not saying Bush is bad…….
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't saying we should sign Cordero
Just saying it’s interesting that we are apparently looking at a possible set up man
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Rays trade Friedman to Houston for Lee
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
not a chance...not after the way he toasted them last season
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
whew, was worried til you said this
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
I'm glad I could validate your feelings
Relieved?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 5, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
lol
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Rays should still own Manny's rights
he’s the one who retired. Shouldn’t be a free agent.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 4, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
well, I get it emotionally
but from a contract perspective, it makes no sense. Manny signed a 1-year deal, which he then forfeited when he retired. So that’s two ways in which he would be a free agent with or without the suspension, and zero ways in which he would still be a Ray.
I do feel your pain, though
really thought Manny was a lock for .300/.400/.500 last year
not analogous
the Rays control Longoria through 2016. The Rays only controlled Manny through the end of 2011.
Nice try, junior Scott Boras. :)
I'm not sure why that would have any effect on it.
By retiring, you terminate yoiur contract with the team. We saw the Royals pitcher lose more than one year (I believe) on retirement.
right, but if Meche had tried to un-retire prior to his contract expiring
he would have remained the property of the Royals. You can’t unilaterally deprive the other party of their rights.
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 5, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
That would be nice
Seems like our kind of pick, if he drops.
Kyle Russell might also be interesting. Real power, really big holes in his swing, pretty servicable defensively in the OF (has masqueraded in center from time to time), but as a 6’5" lefty, seems like someone they might want to experiment with at 1B.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I wouldn't trade a bag of balls for Daric Barton.
What has he done in his career that’s getting him mentioned as a trade candidate? He’s always been hurt and in his best year his OPS was .798 and he’s never slugged above .413 except for an 18 game cup of coffee in 2007.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Barton is worth $13.69 according to Baseball Reference's new cash calculator.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
OPS isn't the best way to judge players who derive most of their value from OBP
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 4, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry but an often injured 1B with no power isn't on my list.
If he was a free agent on a minor league deal then maybe… i’m not giving up anything for him though. Also i’m not judging him from OPS , i’m using my eyes and to me , he has always been sub par.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
4.2 WAR in 2010
when he walked 100 + times.
He’ll be 26 next year entering the so called ‘prime years’ of his career. Colome may be too much for some around here, but I could see it happening.
His glove at 1st if decent, and he gets on base a lot.
Now, he’s definitely not a power hitter (even in the minors the most he ever did in a season was 13), but he would be, at the very least, good depth in AAA and possible someone who could break out at the majors this year.
I think you misspelled "Riefenhauser"
which is understandable; that’s a crazy name to have to try and spell
no way I'm trading Riefenhauser
dude’s got a career .529 winning percentage. Never trade away winners
by behn on Dec 4, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thoughts
Trade Niemann for Lucas Duda
Trade Upton for Drew Storen
Trade Niemann plus throw-in for Alonso
Trade Niemann plus Upton for LoMo and Dunn (or other throw-in… or just let LoMo alone)
Sign Shoppach for 1/2.0
Sign Kotchman for 2/7.0
Sign Ayala for 1/2.5
Sign Wada Tsuyoshi for 3/10
by Patrick Relano Kim on Dec 4, 2011 8:12 PM EST reply actions
I think you're undervaluing Niemann here
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 4, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I don't really like any of these
getting Storen would be nice, I guess.
Ramos and clippard for upton instead.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Dec 4, 2011 8:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Leave Clippard far far away. Ramos and Storen if we are talking about moving Upton.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I think Clippard is about 5 sliders away from
contracting severe arm-falling-off-itis
I like the trade if we move BJ
But the better move is not to make a move, in this case.
I AM THE MONSTER - The big SCARY monsta
by sc_monsta1015 on Dec 4, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
I've come around to this position
that moving BJ should be like moving Shields; you do it if you can get a great overpay in return.
Why?
A guy with injury issues, entering arbitration, with no great peripherals and an ERA+ less than 100 the last couple years probably doesn’t have a ton of trade value, to be honest.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
yesssss the first "TRADE UPTON FOR A RELIEVER" of the thread!
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
by pudieron89 on Dec 4, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Tyler Clippard wasn't from this area, his appeal drops, what, 69%?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 5, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
oh, man, if only
Butler is my white whale. But I get the sense that the KC front office is basically impossible to deal with.
I thought he was a white whale
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Royals probly want more for Butler
If that was all it took though, that deal would have already been made probly.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 4, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Probably?
Certainly.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
things I did not know until just now
a) Ian Stewart is arb-eligible as a Super-2; and
b) Ian Stewart made $2.29MM in 2011 for some reason
I’ve always liked Stewart, even while he was tanking my NL-only fantasy team in April this year.
He's one of those guys with all of the tools that for one reason or another just hasn't or won't ever put it together.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of false expectations with him were set up by a big year in Asheville in the minors
How would you like to be a lefty guy with pop and have to aim at this when you’re up. Yes, 297 down the line, 320 to the gap, and 373 to dead center
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
that season
.319/.398/.594 with 70 XBH & 101 RBI in 581 PA
He never hit more than 19 again and that includes time in the PCL and CAL leagues
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 4, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
even excluding 2004 as an outlier
I think it’s fair to get excited over a middle infielder with a broad base of good secondary skills who can hit MLB pitching at age 23. It’s just that he never got better after 2008. It happens, sometimes.
He's not a super 2
He has over 3 years of service time.
Anyway, a .737 OPS away from Coors doesn’t catch my eye too much.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
A Marlins signing of Jose Reyes would mean that Ramirez is very likely to be traded.
And probably for starting pitching which means they may be able to get better starting pitching from someone else other than the Rays(Neimann/Davis).
Ramirez will be moving to 3rd if Reyes is signed by Miami.
He was the main recruiter for getting Reyes to Miami. I read the report that contradicted that report but Hanley said he would move over to 3rd if the Marlins signed Reyes.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that Hanley has issues but i don't see him getting moved right now.
I’d be shocked if he’s not the Marlins 3B next year until at least the deadline.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
It's official... Reyes is a Marlin
6 years 106 million
Not suggesting anything but Ramirez is owed 46.5 million for the next three seasons
Shields’ contract if all options and incentives are met adds up to 44 million dollars for the next three years.
honestly it could be a great deal... if we could get Ramirez to stop acting like a little baby...
unless we could do that then i’m not so sure.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed , as long as Longo keeps his pimp hand strong if Hanley gets out of line.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 4, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Upton would have to go, no way Longo could tame both of them...
Unless Jonny Gomes comes back to reinforce him!!!
by germanshepard44 on Dec 4, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Why go after Ramirez when Nick Punto's waiting to be plucked from the tree of greatness?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
reply fail
I’d rather have Price/Shields #1/#2 than Longo/Ramirez in lineup. Even with Hellickson/Moore more than able to pick up the slack.
Give me 2012 and 2013 with Price, Shields, Hellickson, Moore and fill the offense however else we can get it done.
Dude "Hanley Ramirez" might as well be called "MVP MVP"
He’s soooooo good
by benderbrodriguez on Dec 5, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Going a little big here
I think the Mets are going to feel some pressure from the Marlins going strong, along with Nats improving and still having the Phillies and Braves in the division
TB Sends
James Shields
Sean Rodriguez
NYM Send
Lucas Duda
Josh Thole
Jeurys Familia
Cesar Puello
Darin Gorski
barf
If Shields goes to the Mets, I want nothing less than Ike Davis.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 4, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Davis has a *lot* more upside, IMO
Davis is arb eligible in 2013, Duda in 2014 — but Davis is a year younger, was more impressive in the minors, and has significantly better tools and scouting reports than Duda.
Yeah , i'd go back to the drawing board with that one.
lets not make trades with a team that arguably has the worst farm in the game. this is coming from a Mets fan as my other team. The Mets are a disaster.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 5, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
dang didn't realize it was that bad
I know it was hard to find pieces to make a Shields trade, they may be in the cellar for awhile.
Our best matches for moving Shields are Miami and Cincy but if we are going all in for 2012
then we can’t move Shields right now.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 5, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree, only if in moving Shields, Moore starts 2012 in the rotation
if we can turns Shields into a major upgrade in the field and replace him in the rotation with Moore than I think it actually helps us. I see maybe a 10% chance that Moore, Price, and Shields are all in the rotation opening day. Moore will be in AAA unless one of those 2 is traded.
So the rumor is that the Marlins are going to go hard (no pun intended) after Pujols.
I see a trade coming….
Couple guesses
Wade Davis for Ike Davis
Upton for Derek Norris and Henry Rodriguez
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 5, 2011 12:05 AM EST reply actions
I'm not trading you before the deadline.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 5, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Here is how I look at it
Would you rather have Upton or Guyer plus 6.5 mil to reallocate and whatever return we get for Upton. I understand Upton is a 4 win player, but how many wins would Guyer, that 6.5 mil investment (for a DH?) and the players we received be worth? Hypothetically, lets say we trade Upton and get Norris and Rodriguez in return, and then turn around and use that money to trade for Quentin (who is set to earn around 6.5 mil) for a couple C+ prospects. With his defense, baserunning and lets say a 15 hr – 20 SB season out of Guyer, would it be safe to say he would be worth around 2 wins? Quentin could be worth 2-3 wins as a DH and Rodriguez as a 1 win set up man. That doesnt even include Norris who could still be a solid everyday catcher. Quentin and Upton would both probably be at least type B FA, so we wouldnt be losing any picks. I dont know, I really like Upton but I struggle with the idea we would better off keeping him.
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 5, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
15 hr and 20sb from Guyer is a ROY type year from him and i'm not convinced he's a big league player yet.
i see your thinking but my thinking is lets watch Upton go bananas in a contract year and help us push to another AL East crown. Essentially you’re trading Upton for a relief pitcher and a catcher who may never see a big league field ( i know he’s highly touted )… We’ve been told that the Rays have payroll flexibility and can make a push , so reallocating Upton’s salary in 2012 is not needed. We need his bat to be what it was while in the 2 hole the last 6 weeks of 2011 because 6.5 million won’t get you what Upton could provide … If we are out of it at the deadline then we move him.
by Peter Piontek on Dec 5, 2011 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
also
if there were a $7MM DH out there that represented a clear upgrade, this would be an easier argument to make — but as far as I can tell, there isn’t. So I’m not sure what the flexibility actually would buy in this market.
In October, I was pretty convinced that Upton was going to be moved this offseason. Now, I think it’s only likely if some team comes forward with a blow-you-away kind of deal — and I don’t know that any team wants 1 year of BJ that badly.
I'm not that high on Guyer, but I think it is more likely BJ goes for 30 HR/50 SB
before Guyer hits 15/20 next season. I’m not saber guy but using old school stats I’d expect to see Guyer hit .250-.260 with 10-13 HR, 12-15 SB if playing basically everyday. The Rays can upgrade 1B/C/SS/DH, but downgrading CF isn’t going to help this team.
Why do you expect that?
Even using oldschool stats, that’s low.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 5, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
for one he is going from a park in AAA (not sure what his other minor league parks were)
that is very RH friendly with the blue monster in LF, to one that suppresses power from RH.
I also assume he will get on base much less in the majors
at least his rookie year, thus leading to less SB’s.
Unless you find a way to use the 6.5 mil, then it is worthless.
THe exchange rate there is a win for every 1.625 million dollars. The Rays will have a hard time allocating that money and getting the same ratio.
Davis would be a nice target
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Thats why im torn
I really do feel like Guyer could be a Pence-light type of player. I would love for what you say to happen, monster year, big push for the play offs etc. However, if he has a monster year, we likely wont trade him, which means we watch him walk and pick up a supplimental pick, thats all. That will only be worth it if we go deep into the playoffs. If he has a bad year, his value will be way less and even if we try to trade him at the deadline, it will be much less than what we could get for him now. The even less likely scenerio, Upton has a monster year, but the team stinks, and we trade him at the deadline for a good haul. Unless we go deep into the playoffs, I just dont see the positive of keeping him. With all of the raises everyone is due, and with it unlikely we trade any other big salaries (Shields, Price, etc), we probably need that 6-7 mil to fill other holes like DH. Like I said, id rather have Guyer and Quentin versus lets say Upton and Branyan.
Also, its worth noting I wouldnt like Norris and Rodriguez the best, just a more likely trade. Maybe Norris and Tyler Moore instead? If I had it my way, id try to get Grandal for Upton.
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 5, 2011 1:16 AM EST reply actions
I think you're not valuing
a potential WS team highly enough. I’d rather have a 100-win, World Championship Rays team and lose out on Upton’s potential trade value (if he has a monster year) than swap Upton for a couple of B prospects.
Guidelines
So what r the 6 guidelines and why are there so many ban threats. I haven’t read too much of anyone being completely out of line
by gatrmf on Dec 5, 2011 2:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
unless they're coming from me or Steve Slowinski, they're a joke
The big six rules:
1. No personal attacks.
2. No slurs.
3. Keep an open mind, and use logic in arguments.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Limit the use of profanity to the gameday threads.
6. No anime (h/t to the legends that helped grow this place)
Live them, learn them, love them.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Dec 5, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
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