The Rays Tank: Winter Meetings End; So Begins The Long, Slow Slog To Spring Training

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 9, 2011 8:24 AM EST in The Rays Tank

And so, with crashing thunder and flickering lights (or so I imagine), the Winter Meetings ended in dramatic fashion yesterday. Not only did Albert Pujols and C.J. Wilson sign with the Angles (check out Cameron's take on the move here), but they both supposedly didn't choose the highest offer on the table to go there. It was a fascinating end to a week that had mostly been rather boring; there were always plenty of rumors bouncing around, but there was less action during the meetings than expected.

I believe this is the first Winter Meetings in a number of year (four, maybe?) where the Rays haven't made any moves; they didn't even select any players in the Rule 5 draft. The biggest action from yesterday was that they lost two minor leaguers in the Rule 5: Gerardo Oliveras and Matt Sweeney. Holy cow, stop the presses!

The good news is that the Rays don't have to do much this offseason, and they didn't have to make any moves at the Winter Meetings. If you remember back to last year, the Winter Meetings were exciting almost solely because of the players the Rays lost at that time. Friedman makes his trades late in the offseason, and no team was going to be willing to deal for a starting pitcher until C.J. Wilson and Mark Buehrle were off the market. Now that the other options available are less attractive, though, teams might be taking a second look at Niemann, Davis, and Cobb.

The focal point of the offseason has now passed, so we're looking at a blank slate of nothingness for the next two months. But while there may not be much on the calendar until Spring Training kicks off, the offseason is only just getting started for the Rays. Josh Willingham hasn't signed anywhere yet, and the Rays are planning on scouting Joel Zumaya and maybe offering him some sort of deal. There are also still plenty of teams out there that need to upgrade their starting rotation, so these last couple months of the offseason could have some exciting action.

And so, we wait.

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The Rays Winter Meetings

Don’t kick off until much later in the winter.

As a Rays fan I don’t have unrealistic expectations to be big players in the free agent market in early December.

It also seems as if Andrew Friedman isn’t going to move a player until he finds a team that is in some pain and he has the leverage over (which is smart!).

My winters are spent watching how signing,s free agent moves, and trades affect the Rays market later.

Just yesterday we saw the Pujos to LA moves open up two possible candidates (Morales/Trumbo) for 1b. Yonder Alonso now has company on the market. As we discussed earlier this week, if Prince Fielder signs in Seattle do the Mariners add Justin Smoak to the mix?

Mark Buehrle and CJ Wilson both off the market as well as a few mid-level starters like Capuano/Bedard/Harang. The big names of Gio Gonzalez etc. were (in my opinion) put out there just to see what the market may bear similar to the Justin Upton uproar of 2010.

Soon the Yu Darvish posting will be over and Roy Oswalt will land somewhere bringing the Edwin Jackson/Hiroki Kuroda/ type starting pitchers into play. Theo will be out there shopping Matt Garza and somewhere in between Darvish Oswalt/Matt Garza movement Andrew Friedman can play both ends against the middle with Niemann/Davis.

by MrNegative1 on Dec 9, 2011 8:39 AM EST reply actions

And then Friedman will come like a thief in the night...

by d.russ on Dec 9, 2011 8:39 AM EST reply actions

Do this and do it now

The Angels would take a Cobb or Neimann with a minor league player for Trout in a heartbeat. It fits both sides PERFECTLY. The Angels shore up their 5 man rotation, and the Rays get their cheap 1B under control for couple years. DO IT FRIEDMAN!!!!! DO IT!!!

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 9:08 AM EST reply actions

have you been in contact with StylezMcKoolaid?

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions

lmao this doesn't get old

by benderbrodriguez on Dec 9, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions

No, no they would not

Trout is the 2nd best positional prospect in all of baseball and is MLB-ready now. He is not being traded for a guy that has never thrown more than 180 IP in a season and makes an annual trip to the DL or will he be dealt for a guy coming off surgery like Cobb.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 9, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions

I meant trumbo, i corrected myself directly after but it got lost down there between comments.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions

That would be more realistic

Trumbo’s value is in his power potential but he has about the same level of flaws as Niemann does on the mound. Issue is the Angels are looking for controlled costs since their four horsemen in the rotation are nearly making as much as the Rays’ entire payroll.

Davis’ contract would be more appealing for cost controls even if they were to put him in the bullpen and let Richards or Williams have the fifth spot in the rotation.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 9, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions

Trumbo for Niemann or Davis? I think I'm higher on Trumbo than most, so I'd say yes, do it.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 9, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions

I'm sure that Angels would take one of those plus a throw in prospect for Trumbo. Be perfect for both teams. Trumbo as a DH with Trout, Abreu, etc still is out of question and moving him to 3B is ridiculous. Do it in a heartbeat.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions

Same, who do the Angels roll out at 3B in 2012, though?

It seems like they were envisioning Trumbo there. They should just go and sign Aramis Ramirez while they are at it.

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions

Defensively, they are screwed with whoever they do, do they still have Kendrick? If they do Trumbo or some experiment there it wont go well.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions

They have Kendrick, yes...

And they do have Callaspo/Aybar as well I believe. So I guess the logical thing would be 3B: Kendrick SS: Aybar 2B: Callaspo. Kind of forgot about Kendrick, he played a lot of positions for them last year.

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions

Yes, I make either of those deals considering the depth of the organization

Beggars cannot be choosers. If we’re trading pitchers with flaws, we have to accept batters with flaws. I don’t ever see Niemann as a pitcher throwing 200 innings in a season and if Wade doesn’t have an off-speed pitch by now, he’s never going to have one.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 9, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions

that's a fair assessment

like you, I’d rather have any of the other 1Bs on the Rays’ radar (Morrison, Alonso) over Trumbo. But I think it’s pretty obvious those guys aren’t available now, straight up, for Niemann/Davis (or else the Rays would have made that deal already).

You could wait and see who blinks first; the problem is that you might find yourself in March trying to decide between Juan Miranda and Russ Canzler.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

That last thought is a pretty scary one...

It worked out well once with Carlos Pena, but now, with the opportunity to find potentially a building block to put in at 1B, I’m all for that of course. LoMo, Trumbo, or Alonso would be great additions. Is it completely unrealistic to think we could land 2 of 3? Trumbo for DH, Alonso/LoMo for 1B?

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions

i'd do moore for trout in a heartbeat

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions

Not a chance in the world I'd do that...

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions

Was that a joke pudie...please tell me that was a joke.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions

why would it be? we're flush with pitching and haven't had a prospect like trout hittingwise since...ever.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

After seeing what Moore could do in the majors...

I’d be quicker to trade David Price then him. .

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions

sure i'd trade david price for him too. pretty much any pitcher we have i'd do straight up for trout. but the fairest deal for the angels would be Moore.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions

yeah but moore under control for years. Price yes, I would do that, not Moore whatsoever. But its moot cuz the Angels are and will not shop or trade Trout. Ever. next year Angels lose Abreu and Wells so he is their stud for years to come.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions

BJ Upton

by rglass44 on Dec 9, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

if there was a beej clone age 19 prospect or whatever i'd trade moore for that as well, given what we knew as he was coming up.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

Delmon Young?

BA rated him as the #3 prospect in all of baseball in 2004, 2005, and 2007… and the #1 prospect in 2006.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah. I was thinking 5-tool stud up at 19 though.

by rglass44 on Dec 9, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions

I'd seriously consider it if you could sign Trout to an extension

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

he's not S2 is he? still has all his control then, definitely worth it regardless.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions

In another thread we talked about DJ - Upton - Trout outfield...

Boner achieved!

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions

too early to tell. i believe he will be though if he starts in the majors this year (s2 after next season).

by rglass44 on Dec 9, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

with the expanded S2 rules, I think you're right

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

all the more reason we should get him and stash him on the Bulls to bring in another Service Time Champs banner!

imagine the accolades we’d receive for that one

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

NOT ANYMOORE YOU WOULDN'T

by benderbrodriguez on Dec 9, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions

i addressed this in the other thread, PGP

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

YO I'M EXCITED OKAY

by benderbrodriguez on Dec 9, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

Mark Trumbo hit 29 HRs last year for the ANgels playing mostly 1B

and making a little over $400K. I can’t wait to see how an alleged 35 yo Pujols hits over that mark making him well worth that $254mil deal

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Dec 9, 2011 9:09 AM EST reply actions

weak. if he gets on base anywhere near his typical .400 he'll be much much better than trumbo, not to mention he's pretty much a lock for more than 29 HR.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions

Ummmm.......yeah ok... a lock for 6 or 7 more home runs and a 50 point obp for the price of 24.6 million dollars...so worth it. When already paying Vernon over 20 mil, even though his contract up after this coming year.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions

not 50, .150

that’s 90 more trips to the basepaths over 600PA.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions

I'm kinda with you here.

People overblow his OBP problems. Yes, he doesn’t walk much and all, but he’s also got prodigious power…he was worth 2.3 WAR last season, and odds are pretty good that he can get his OBP up to around league average over the next couple years.

In short, if the Rays can pry him away for cheap, I’d gladly take him. He’d be better if he walked more, but it doesn’t make him a worthless player.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 9, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions

i'm sure he'll improve somewhat, but doesn't walk rate stabilize pretty quickly?

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions

Yes, but that's not saying that players can't improve.

In the article I linked, I tried looking at comparable young players with high power / low walk rates. In short, there’s a wide range of outcomes, but most of them improve their walk rates slightly over time, and the best hitters of the bunch get up to league average or above.

Essentially, Trumbo’s really comparable offensively to Torii Hunter. That’s not a bad thing to be.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 9, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions

similar batters thru age 25 include moreland, pena, gomes...i guess i'd be OK with any of them at 1B next year for us.

of course i’m on the joyce to 1B train.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

Lovin the Joyce to 1B, been on that train too. Have a Guyer/Fuld/ Canzler platoon.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed.

I seriously balked at the idea of trying to get him prior to the Pujols signing, but I think that really makes him more appealing because they can’t overvalue him too much.

I still am unsure what it would take to get him, but the power is legit.

by rglass44 on Dec 9, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions

I mean Trumbo..damn T's. I got excited.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 9:09 AM EST reply actions

Now this...

8:55am: The Yankees haven’t made Kuroda an offer, tweets MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch.

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions

Shoot posted to wrong topic!

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions

Please watch your language here, I have a daughter.

by Passionate Apathy on Dec 9, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I'm sorry...

by Snarfalicious on Dec 9, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions

lol

by benderbrodriguez on Dec 9, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions

Yankees Offer Kuroda 12 mil

by MrNegative1 on Dec 9, 2011 9:19 AM EST reply actions

I didn't notice the Russell Martin connection before

but that helps this offer make a lot of sense.

by d.russ on Dec 9, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions

Kuroda seems like the type of pitcher ill suited for moving out of the comfy confines of Chavez in the NLW to the new Yankee Stadium in the AL BEAST.

by rglass44 on Dec 9, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions

I'm tired of people acting like Cashman is a good GM. A monkey could do his job with his unlimited resources, yet he has assembled a old, overpaid, injury prone team. Ridiculous.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions

won a WS in 2009, made playoffs last 2 years, i think he's doing alright.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions

yeah, he's pretty much executing the optimal strategy for the Yankees

-prioritize minor-leaguers with All-Star upside but be willing to trade anyone else;
-use the balance of the farm system to acquire players in their prime;
-sign premium free agents;
-outspend on international signees; and
-go get players no other team can get to fill depth (i.e., Lance Berkman at the trade deadline to sit on the bench)

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

id spend more on the draft

by rglass44 on Dec 9, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions

well no shit, cuz he has any money to spend. its not hard to be good when you can sign whoever you want for however amount of money. Even middle tier teams have to crunch at spots, and finding talent for a price is one thing, and finding it cuz u can

pay out the ass is another.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

look at the cubs, baltimore, dodgers...spending =/= success

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu

by pudieron89 on Dec 9, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions

yup yup

by rglass44 on Dec 9, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions

Orioles outspent the Yankees (!) in 1998

and were close in ’99 and 2000. Those teams won 79, 78, and 74 games.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions

he wasn't even the GM then.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions

not responsive

the point is that you can outspend the field and not be good at it, so the fact that Cashman outspends the field and is good at it is a point in his favor.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions

oh it was 98 when he got there, i thought it was 2000.

by rickdr23 on Dec 9, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions

This would not be good

He’s a very good pitcher

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Dec 9, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions

I keep thinking he's fragile

but he’s made 31+ starts 3 out of the 4 years he’s been in MLB. Heading to the AL East will put a dent in his shiny ERA numbers, obviously, but yeah: this is a smart Yankees move to get an above-average starter without a massive multi-year commitment.

by AndrewTorrez on Dec 9, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions