3/16/11 GDT: Tampa Bay Rays @ Florida Marlins
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 16, 2011 11:41 AM EDT
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PrintWade Davis was supposed to start today, but according to Marc Topkin, he's been scratched due to the flu. Cory Wade will get the start in his place. Also, Topkin's partner Joe Smith is reporting that Jeremy Hellickson is apparently feeling fine and isn't expected to miss his next start.
***
Who: Tampa Bay Rays @ Florida Marlins
When & Where: 1:05 PM, Roger Dean Stadium, Jupiter, Fla.
Radio: None?
Pitching for the Rays: Cory Wade, Cesar Cabral, R.J. Swindle, Rob Delaney
Pitching for the Marlins: Chris Volstad, Randy Choate, Burke Badenhop, Steve Cishek
Rays Lineup: Courtesy of Marc Topkin:
Jaso c
E. Johnson cf
Ramirez DH
Joyce rf
Lopez 3b
Kotchman 1b
Rodriguez 2b
Brignac ss
Fuld lf
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i miss the Joints
We need a new competition…
Regressing to the mean streets of St. Pete
by stpetelawyer on Mar 16, 2011 12:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
We can still guess but it will just be for bragging rights.
How many earned runs will Wade give up?
Which Ray will hit a HR? None is an acceptable answer
Will Jaso walk today?
I'm an F18, Bro
2, Kotchman, Yes
I roll like a desperado, now I never know where I’m gonna go
still I ball like there’s no tomorrow
Good night is over with thats all she wrote
Also, I think it would of been interesting to let McGee start
Especially since Maddon hasn’t used anyone back to back days and who knows if he starts with Swindle
Under construction
I see that the $4million dollar Cuban who has less talent than Ricky Ricardo was sent down
Where are all those Leslie Anderson fans that had him penciled in at 1B as Pena’s replacement?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
You can find them supporting the Casey Kotchman train.
It would be a plane, but it would never leave the ground if Kotchman was the operator.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You leave out one HUGE detail or
better yet 4 million of them
I’ll bite thoughm by saying that Kotchman has more of a significant MLB career from this day forward than Leslie
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
You realize that the majority of the $4 m is a based on incentives he'll never reach
If the Rays were to cut bait with him right now, they would have paid less than $1m
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by Tommy Rancel on Mar 16, 2011 2:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He hit a fly ball yesterday.
I have nothing to add that hasn’t been said.
by Buc Wild on Mar 9, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I was one of the leaders of that group and was a bit disapointed that he was never given a shot to really compete
but that is most likely indicative of what Joe and Co saw in practice and such. There is no way I am anywhere near a Kotchman band wagon, the only way he should get a shot to start is if Johnson, Zobrist, and Damon all get hurt.
3 HR given up by Wade this Spring.
I have nothing to add that hasn’t been said.
by Buc Wild on Mar 9, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
No need. He's got years of team control left.
You’ll be purring along his leg sooner than later.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm hoping next season we start seeing the Schumans and Flemings making their mark
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PECOTA likes Quate quite a bit.
But then again, you know how relief “prospects” are. Don’t mind it if we flip ’em in a Gorgen-like deal.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Jaso's red flag is as bright as a candied apple at this point--no plate discipline at all
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That terrible plate discipline is what got him to the majors.
I have nothing to add that hasn’t been said.
by Buc Wild on Mar 9, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
When/if he has these problems in the regular season, I'll be worried.
Until then, his performance is as relevant as these games.
If there's one thing he's got, it's plate discipline.
Or at least, patience. He takes an awful lot on the first pitch and I’m not sure it’s because of recognition.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
When you look for a walk, you become less aggressive at the plate
Getting on base and looking for walks is what Jaso has been good at and what is continuously expected of him. His good eye accounts for that. It is not recognition that has him taking so many early strikes…it’s his mind set. The problem is that he doesn’t go up swinging at that first pitch and pitchers realize that. While he may work a count deep and get a lot of walks, his hitting suffers and what accounts for his low BA and slugging average. I have documented how poorly he hits when he gets behind in a count and how he very rarely walks when he leads off innings.
If you like his w/OBA then you accept that it is so high because of the walks and not his hitting. But until he becomes more aggressive early in the count and begins jumping on fastballs that he knows are coming, I think he will continue to be a below average hitter and run producer. Maddons expectations may be behind his approach at the plate so maybe Jaso is not to fault.
% of first pitches put in play, 2010
Rocco Baldelli 20%
Hank Blalock 16%
Carl Crawford 15%
Carlos Pena 13%
B.J. Upton 12%
Kelly Shoppach 12%
Matt Joyce 11%
Jason Bartlett 11%
Reid Brignac 10%
Pat Burrell 10%
Ben Zobrist 10%
Sean Rodriguez 10%
Dan Johnson 10%
Desmond Jennings 8%
Willy Aybar 8%
Evan Longoria 8%
Gabe Kapler 7%
Dioner Navarro 6%
John Jaso 4%
Brad Hawpe 2%
You should probably be getting on Longoria to swing at more first pitches as well.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's per plate appearance, here's a look at % of first pitches taken (Name/Take/Swing/PA/% of first pitch taken)
Rocco Baldelli 15 10 25 60%
Kelly Shoppach 113 75 188 60%
B.J. Upton 369 243 612 60%
Carlos Pena 357 228 585 61%
Desmond Jennings 16 9 25 64%
Carl Crawford 429 235 664 65%
Matt Joyce 178 86 264 67%
Sean Rodriguez 258 123 381 68%
Reid Brignac 224 103 327 69%
Jason Bartlett 388 146 534 73%
Pat Burrell 67 24 91 74%
Brad Hawpe 34 12 46 74%
Hank Blalock 51 18 69 74%
Willy Aybar 232 78 310 75%
Gabe Kapler 107 33 140 76%
Evan Longoria 518 146 664 78%
Ben Zobrist 514 144 658 78%
Dan Johnson 110 30 140 79%
Dioner Navarro 113 29 142 80%
John Jaso 352 55 407 86%
Total 4445 1827 6272 71%
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
#datahound
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by Tommy Rancel on Mar 16, 2011 3:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
#illiterate
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I've expanded on it a bit here
http://dockoftherays.com/2011/03/16/a-brief-look-at-first-pitch-results-for-the-2010-rays/
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Swinging at a lot of first pitches and taking a lot of last pitches is no way to endear a fanbase
I know you’re looking for basically zcon on first pitches, but I’m not parsing down to that level. Assume that pitchers are pitching optimally which means that guys that are swinging at 60% of first pitches are going to get more balls and guys swinging at 80% of first pitches are going to get more strikes. Evan Almighty, indeed.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
No, no, no.
I want a % of first pitch looking balls and first pitch looking strikes. One would expect that Jaso would get more first-pitch strikes than Evan for instance.
Gimme a sec
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
First pitch ball %
Row Labels % Ball
Carlos Pena 68%
Brad Hawpe 68%
Rocco Baldelli 67%
Dan Johnson 64%
Carl Crawford 63%
Desmond Jennings 63%
Matt Joyce 63%
Hank Blalock 61%
Kelly Shoppach 60%
Evan Longoria 60%
B.J. Upton 60%
Ben Zobrist 57%
Reid Brignac 56%
Willy Aybar 55%
Pat Burrell 55%
Jason Bartlett 54%
Sean Rodriguez 53%
John Jaso 52%
Gabe Kapler 50%
Dioner Navarro 46%
Grand Total 58%
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Navi getting a lot of respect
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Sure if Serious
Why worry about throwing a strike to such a hacker?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Why even worry about it? He's a slow guy that hits groundballs and soft liners
Just bury fastballs down in the zone and don’t even mess around
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He hits soft bc he makes contact OOZ and on corners not over the plate
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As my post shows he's taking 80% of first pitches anyway and he only put 9 balls in play in 142 Plate Appearances first pitch
He was thrown a called strike 54% of the time and still put 6% of his plate appearances in play
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Alwats drove me nuts
In other Navi hacktastic news, it seems he has developed some real predictable tendencies at the plate. Going back to the beginning of the Mets series Navi has picked up his first strike of a plate appearance looking 13 times, swinging 4 times, and bunting foul twice. Beyond that Navi has accumulated 26 swinging strikes or fouls for strike 2 or beyond. His sole called strike for strike 2 or 3 in that time period was the first game of the Mets series. With that quick a trigger, its no wonder walking is hardly a possibility. Pitchers should be tossing a first pitch strike and straying from the zone for the rest of the at-bat.
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Yeah, good job, seemed like it was always take strike one, offer at garbage breaking ball for strike 2, and then strike 3 is where it got interesting
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Check this outhttp://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=jasojo01&year=2010&t=b
Jaso had 202 PA’s where he took the first pitch strike. He hit .239, .292 OBP, .335 slug., and .627 OPS. He only worked 13 walks
He took a first pitch ball 182 PA’s. He hit .293, .475 OBP, .429 slug., and a .904OPS. He worked 46 walks
He had 20 PA where he hit the first pitch in play going 5-18.
With such a good eye, his choice of letting the first pitch go, sets up his AB. Pitchers know this which is why he sees so many strikes. And as I’ve posted, he makes contact on 93% of strikes meaning he is making a conscious effort to let the first pitch go. I think he looking for the walk first and worrying about hitting second. It is not an aggressive approach and unless that changes, pitchers will keep pumping first pitch strikes to him knowing if they get ahead of him his effectiveness as a hitter diminishes.
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2011/3/16/2053542/spring-training-2011-tampa-bay-rays
This is pretty bad. I get it that the bullpen is pretty bad. But Upton and Longo are really the only players? Thats a buch of crap. I don’t expect him to like Brignac or Johnson, but acting like Damon and Manny are just tiny pieces is embaressing. Leaving aside Joyce is awful too. Jaso must suck also (get out SF1). I was just really dissappointed with the quality. He made it sound like the Rays have one of the worst line-ups in baseball.
That is awful.
Manny only good for some entertainment value in the field?
I can’t believe that article was posted today. Just awful.
GO RAYS!
by SandalsNoPants on Mar 16, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
And all of it coming from a Royals fan.
Someone’s jealous.
GO RAYS!
by SandalsNoPants on Mar 16, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not that bad, coming from a non-Rays fan.
You look at all the positives when thinking about Joyce, Damon, and Manny. I was watching that Red Sox-Yankee game on ESPN, and the ticker at the bottom said Jaso is a fantasy sleeper. I laughed out loud. I think Rob is right though, if this team goes to the post season, a lot of that is on Maddon. A lot of that is how he will use these guys in their splits. I’ve been on the BJ goes nuts this years bandwagon, and Longo was probably underrated last year, if that’s possible. They might not be the only players, but when looking at that lineup, they are the two who are most likely going to be behind the success of this team.
by ballsdeep187 on Mar 16, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Neyer was only referring to the fact that Longo, Upton, Zobrist are our only everyday players, maybe Briggy, Roddy, Manny, and John Damon can be thrown in, but meh
He’s not wrong, virtually everyone else has pretty wide splits, outside of maybe DanJo who’s pretty under the radar
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
he makes the positional flexibility of Zobrist and S-Rod sound like albatrosses
Why is it so bad that they aren’t handcuffed to one position?
Wow, yeah he is
stealing home on an odd play!
GO RAYS!
by SandalsNoPants on Mar 16, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
FreeZo, thoughts on this?
Wade has an option left. Is it wrong for me to wonder if we shouldn’t keep him down (off the 40-man) until later in the year and bring him up for good so he doesn’t burn it? I’m chill with Ekstrom or Delaney making the OD roster, so that’s not an issue.
We could find someone at league minimum to perform at least as well as him, though, no?
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Mar 16, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the long relief role. You can throw anyone there and it won't matter.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
They're already on the hook for his salary whether he pitches for them or not.
Barring a trade. Sure, you can option him and throw another long reliever, but that’s essentially setting money on fire.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
However, I do fancy Ekstrom's groundball rate.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Eckstrom is the RH'er that induces the groundball to right hand hitters that Maddon usually keeps in the pen.
Which could give him an advantage in making the roster.
Maddon doesn't make the roster decisions.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not the one making the decisions.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think you know what youre talking about in this case.
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by Tommy Rancel on Mar 16, 2011 3:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we assume that if Wade/Delaney/Ekstrom
Make the OD roster with the intention of using them as a placeholder until Juan Cruz is deemed ready, than I’m good with Delaney or Ekstrom holding that spot. Both are already on the 40 man so burning another 40 man spot + an option on Wade for a temporary spot would not be good roster/depth construction. If they feel whoever assumes the role could be a permanent member of the pen, then I would favor Wade.
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by Tommy Rancel on Mar 16, 2011 2:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well with Cruz and howell a month or so away from being ready
that means 2 bullpen spots will need to open up for those guys to join which could be a good thing as there will be competition even once opening day comes for roster spots and that should in theory create for better performances.
Howell is more than a month away
I’d really like to see Delaney given a chance to shine
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
oh for some reason I thought they were targeting the begining of May
maybe I’m just really ready for him to be back.
Me too, but I don't think we'll see him before June
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The issue with Cruz isnt a based on talent.
He is clearly one of our best chances in the bullpen; however, the question is health. He’s out of options so once you call him up there is no sending him back down. There is the DL of course, but if he needs to work on arm strength or working back to back days, take advantage of the minor lg deal. Let him do that for 3 weeks in Durham and monitor him without impacting MLB bullpen.
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by Tommy Rancel on Mar 16, 2011 3:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I feel you could do a search and find this verbatim comment about benoit last year around this time
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It's pretty much the same situation.
I just hope people don’t realistically expect the same result. Cruz doesn’t have to put up Benoit numbers to be a valuable piece of the pen.
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by Tommy Rancel on Mar 16, 2011 3:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Benoit was also eased into the majors as well
I don’t think he went to the 8th inning until after a month or soe.
I've already resigned myself to the fact that Cruz is going to be viewed as a failure no matter what he does.
/Benoit’d.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 16, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Do us all a favor and close the comments the first time Farnsworth blows a lead.
I can live without the psychoanalysis gang.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, the FanPosts we'll get around then will be classic.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 16, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I may stop visiting. Don't take it personally.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I won't. It'd be understandable.
Thought I’m sure you’d miss the genesis of some new memes.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 16, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Rays Fan didn't even realize how good he was until roughly August, I hope Cruz can similarly fly under the radar even if the results aren't as outstanding
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, that's my moniker for your run of the mill fan, I don't mean to make fun of someone if that's their self-imposed web handle
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think he should be on the team even if he can't pitch back to back days at first
I'm an F18, Bro
Why? The Opening Day roster isn't that important.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TBD/opening.shtml
I forgot that we had Burrell and Navarro in our opening day lineup last season. Ugh.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 16, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Burrell's big day versus Boston was such a tease.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
And the worst part is that we were all right about him not being THAT bad
But it didn’t come until after it was time to pull the plug.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll admit it: I wanted to believe he was back.
That illusion didn’t last too much longer, though.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 16, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
3 weeks of having a subpar player can be the difference
Our margin of error this year is minimal
I'm an F18, Bro
Pardon me, I had to laugh at that.
We had Jason Bartlett leading off for us for how long last year? We basically had no DH. We didn’t bring up our second best hitter until mid-June. Having a random middle reliever instead of Juan Cruz for a few weeks isn’t killing our season.
The Yankees are starting Garcia and/or Colon. We’re talking about a middle reliever who is unlikely to see many (if any) high lev spots.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
We brought up Crawford in mid-June? I must have missed that
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a ridiculous argument
We had these problems with our team and still won so it’s ok to have these problems again?
I'm an F18, Bro
No. My point is this is nothing.
It’s like worrying about the long reliever.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
We’re fine. The stuff we’re bickering about isn’t going to be the difference between the playoffs and home in October.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The way Maddon uses the bullpen I would argue it does
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Mar 16, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you know what you're talking about in this case.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Sonnanstine's usage last year:
3 Hi Leverage appearances
5 Med Leverage appearances
27 Low Leverage appearances
Here are the games he had a leverage index of 1 (medium) or higher:
Jun 19th (entered in the 11th)
May 17th (entered in the 11th)
July 11th (entered in the 10th)
And three games in which he started.
So yeah, what has Maddon done wrong again?
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This is like when people accuse Maddon of not using Choate or Wheeler right
Despite, you know, those two having the highest and second highest of same-handed batters faced of any RP last year.
Maddon uses the bullpen very, very well.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops, B-Ref defines "Med Leverage" as 0.7 to 1.5. Misspoke.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hi is above 1.5 (closers are around 1.8 to 2)
Low is below 0.7
Sonny’s aLI was 0.52.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Of pitchers with at least 40 IP last season
Sonny had the 9th lowest aLI. That’s with the GS boost.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Raise this to 60 and he's the 4th lowest.
And that’s with only Mitre having starts to bog up his leverage index.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
In other words: Maddon used Sonny in about as low leverage of spots as you can expect from any big league manager.
And, as I pointed out above, the only time he used him out of the pen in high leverage spots was extra innings. One of which was that Marlins game where he even used Shields before.
I think the comments about how he doesn’t use this or that correctly are dated to when he didn’t have anyone in the pen good enough to be treated this way.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish he had used anyone but Cormier in that Yankee game when it looked like Sori was available
Seemed silly to save him just because we weren’t the home team
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't remember that game off hand.
I do remember the Ekstrom game early in the year when he (seemingly) saved Cormier to face the Yankees.
Back then, you know, when people weren’t clawing at the bit to cut Cormier.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd have to check gamelogs before commenting.
But I would say that Maddon is “correct” on his decisions at a high rate. I locked in on it last year when I was doing that stupid Mission site. I quit because I got tired of writing that he was right almost always.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh no doubt, if one game in August is the most pressing decision worthy of critique then he's doing a hell of a job
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody is going to be right 100% of the time
but I agree Maddon is very good at using the pen as frustrating as it might be to watch
I'd agree witih using Soriano here.
The only thing I can think of is that there were two outs already and he wanted Soriano to start the next inning instead. Swisher is a switch-hitter too, which is when Cormier came in handy. Bad spot here, though.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That's probably about right, I remember watching it in a Yankee bar after a kickball game and all I could say is that we got what we deserved
I know Topper was a lot more pissed off than your average bear.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow Zobie was still hitting .284 with a .780 OPS then
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I just sorted by aLI.
That was the runaway winner.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm...you seem to be arguing with yourself RJ.
Might want to get that checked.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 16, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, okay. I'll note that.
In the meanwhile, should I post a comment about the other managers using their long relievers sub-optimally so you can +1 those too?
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
That would make me very happy. Other managers sucking should have no effect on my opinion of Maddon, correct?
You're trying to judge performance without a baseline.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Being above-average means we shouldn't try to be optimal?
You’re confusing us, people who think Maddon is a good manager but has room to improve, with the people who want him fired because they think he’s terrible.
Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Mar 16, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know your baseline when you make statements like that.
If you mean the absolute perfect manager who doesn’t hold regards for egos or feelings or resting, then yes, he’s not quite there. If you mean by the standards of all the managers, then he’s there.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
My baseline IS every other manager
So compared to the average manager vis-a-vis relief usage, Maddon is perfect? This is what you’re arguing?
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by Imperialism32 on Mar 16, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you arguing he's tremendously flawed?
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No, and I don't see where you got the idea that I am
My argument is that because Maddon seems to (I’m at work so I can’t look this up and wouldn’t know where to anyway) play the matchups more (a good thing, of course), he may be forced to go to the last man in the pen more often or in higher leverage situations than usual. You’re arguing Sonnanstine last year when Cormier was the last man.
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by Imperialism32 on Mar 16, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on your definiton of last man
Because Sonny (even with the starts) had a lower aLI than Cormier. (.5 versus .84).
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the last sentence.
I am not saying Maddon is horrible. I am just showing that there are areas he could improve.
I am not sure if Sonny needed to go into the game in those high and medium leverage situations. I don’t remember the bullpen usage around that time.
You didn't take the time to look it up?
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
What I mean is, you didn't look when Sonny entered (or even how often he entered)?
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
I meant I didn’t look up how the rest of the pen was.
For example, he may have needed to use Sonny because all the other relievers were not available. I’ll give Maddon the pass if most of Sonny’s mid and high level sitations were that.
The last bullpen spot is only relevant for about a month anyway
once JP is back he will take that spot
He'll probably take Ramos' spot.
If they keep McGee up.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
what the feeling for when JP is ready?
I get the impression that the team would would rather it be later rather than sooner…
unless someone emerges before he comes back
I’d like to think that JP is going to be given every chance to be the closer. Not right away but after being worked back into the pen for a couple weeks. ideally I’d like to see him closing by mid June
Rather give it to a random vet so Howell's costs stay down.
Same with McGee.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
if someone like Cruz, Farsnworth or whomever proves they can handle the pressure of the 9th it would be great
if not JP has done it before and I would rather have a solid closer than worry about cost in the future, I have confidence that AF can always find someone to fill that role. If not we have guys through the minors that can come up and work into that role like Mcgee this year.
I assume you mean Cory
Is he on a minor lg deal or NRI? I’m not too concerned about his option, why would we need it in the future? We have to burn someone’s option right?
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Sam Fuld having a nice day today, is he still in line to make the team as the 4th OF
I’m not so sure I wouldn’t rather go with Manny and the 2 utility guys (Zoby and Helliot) and not waste a spot on Fuld
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He’s a valuable caddy for Johnny Damon. Late inning defensive replacement and has wheels as a pinch-runner.
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by Tommy Rancel on Mar 16, 2011 3:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Only true reserve CF on the team too.
We have plenty of middle infielder types.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
So your argument is that Sonny vs anyone is a minimal difference because of situations
and the opening day roster doesn’t matter because it can change in a few weeks, but Fuld starting 10 games in CF matter?
I'm an F18, Bro
Find where I said it mattered.
I said he’s our backup CF.
I’d rather have him than Lopez AND Johnson.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Lopez than Johnson
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not an EJ guy at all.
Unless he’s going to take one for the team and sprain his ankle before Lopez opts out (I assume he has one) then I don’t see much of a difference.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
what part of Johnson could you not like
he is Zoby light, he will steal more bases but not have as much power.
He's not going to walk as much and I'm going to guess he's not as good of a defender.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Lopez is supposed to be even worse than Johnson at defense, at every position he plays.
Atleast Johnson is passable at most positions.
by TBRaysfan009 on Mar 16, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Lopez can't play short, but he shouldn't be asked to.
Longoria, Rodriguez, and Zobrist should be ahead of him on the depth chart.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I do think Lopez is adequate to play 3B/2B.
He won’t have to play either often though. This spot shouldn’t get much playing time.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, his defense at 3rd and 2nd isn't that great either.
Plus, Johnson is a better defender in the outfield.
by TBRaysfan009 on Mar 16, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuld should be around to play the OF.
If not, again, Rodriguez and Zobrist can. We even had Brignac trot out there for an inning last year.
If it’s a serious injury, Johnson isn’t playing the OF fulltime anyways, Jennings would be up.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If he's Zoby-lite then Lopez is Manny-Lite
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because a guy has a similar skillset as a super-utility doesn't mean they're even close to comparable.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think we should have both of those guys either
but I wouldn’t mind carrying an extra bullpen guy. I don’t think we will see Lopez on the opening day roster. If it comes down to having to send either Johnson or Fuld through waivers I sure hope we keep Johnson he has more defensive flexibility and is more of an asset on the offensive end as well.
Fuld and Lopez, for me
Send EJ through waivers, if you’re going to give him a half-assed trial and he’s thinking he’ll be sent down for any mistake then just try to pass him through waivers before he shows anything at the MLB level. If he does end up sent down it’s going to be in a small sample anyway, might as well not put him under all that pressure. Plus, maybe he opts out and signs with another team, that’s more fair to him than a month of 25PA.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And even if he does find another team, we have Inglett.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll tell ya, I liked the guy when he was other places, but what little I've seen at the plate and in the field has not impressed me.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember him as being annoying in Toronto but I don't particularly care to see him playing a lot here either.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If he sees time it will be in the Joe Dillon making sure the bench doesn't go anywhere role
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, maybe not that many, but he was tried and failed until Balfour was ready
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
We also had Jae Kuk Ryu and Kurt Birkins in that bullpen at various points.
That’s with Jason Hammel being the long man for most of the season.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Team of destiny
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know how that 2008 team won.
Kaz, Crawford, Pena, and Longoria all missed time. The roster itself wasn’t as good as any since.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I still like him a lot.
Gross’ well-timed hits were also huge.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yankees and Red Sox were resting on their laurels at that point
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Though Sox were really good that year
2008: Sox 59.6 WAR, Rays 49.3 WAR, Yanks 43.3 WAR
2009: Yanks 58.2 WAR, Sox 52.4, Rays 49 WAR
2010: Red Sox 47.9, Yanks 46.9, Rays 43.4
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
And we voluntarily gave Percival high leverage innings.
Amazing.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd forgotten that Shawn Riggans got almost 150 PA that season.
Career best, I’d guess.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah wish Papa Floyd had stayed healthy, still our best DH season since Canseco
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's still surreal to me that we had Cliff Floyd.
Having Manny and Damon won’t set in until 2015.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Just got back from the game
Kotch looked terrible.
E Johnson had the game of his life, really did it all. Had a CRAZY catch in center, diving on a blooper that looked like it would fall for a hit. Also had a 2-run double and a single, stole first and second, and later stole home when he got caught on a pickoff.
Brignac hit the ball hard even if he came up mostly empty. On Manny’s K looking, he had some words for the ump and our entire dugout was yelling at the HP ump, no one was happy.
And finally, Lopez is garbage in the field. He had a play I’ve only ever seen Vlad make, letting a softly hit GB roll between his legs.
he hit the ball hard today but not out of the infield, did not impress. I can't really emphasize enough how impressive EJo was today though, his catch in center was amazing. It was Crawfordesque when it looks like those bloopers will settle in
and CC would come charging in to take them away. That’s exactly what Johnson did in center. His baserunning was superb as well. Maybe he just had a good day, but if the guy is a good defender and has additional flexibility to play the outfield as well I think I’d rather see him than Lopez.
I didn’t say anything about our pitching but I was getting food when Wade gave up the HR, he struck out the side in the first inning though and looked pretty good doing it. Delaney pitched well and Swindle wasn’t fantastic, most everyone else was scrubs.
DId it look special because he had to lay out on a ball that Beej trots to? Don't put too much stock in one ST performance
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by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 16, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Beej only gets to it because he plays shallow
I know I’m making a big deal but the game wasn’t on radio or TV so I’m trying to convey a bit about it that gameday wouldn’t show. He definitely had the defensive play of the day with that one, and it was a bloop hit with a man on base that would usually fall for an out.
I haven’t seen enough live game footage to say who wins out in Lopez vs. Johnson, but I personally like Johnson better if it means we have to see Lopez’s defense late in games.
Why would we have to see Lopez's defense late in games?
Unless the score’s not close. I would think there’s enough versatility on the team that if it’s a close game, guys could get shifted around to get Lopez out of the IF, but maybe not.
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by SandalsNoPants on Mar 16, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
for the same reason we have seen horrible defenders put in the field in seasons past, their hitting ability as PH
I’m just not sold on Lopez’s hitting ability being that much greater than other bench options and it’s not worth it to me if we have to see his defense in addition to that.
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