Do the Rays Need Power?
Last season, most did not notice that the Rays finished with 12 more stolen base than they did home runs. The team combined for 172 stolen bases while hitting 160 home runs joining the Mets, Mariner, and the Athletics as the only teams to do so in baseball. The obvious difference between those four teams is that one made the playoffs while the other three did not. The club lost 66 of the 160 home runs from last season via free agency, trade, or retirement while brining in just 16 home runs for last season meaning there is a very good chance the club repeats last year's feat. The big question - can they repeat last year's result?
It is relatively accepted that power is not as prevalent these days as it was just ten year ago for whatever reason you want to believe whether it was PEDs or expansion teams finally acquiring decent pitching talent. Simply put, 30 home run hitters today are the exception these days when they were once the norm. As power has waned, speed is making a comeback and the chart below shows how both statistics have trended since just before the last players' strike.
The stats were quite divergent for a few seasons but are creeping a bit closer together these days yet still far from the closeness the two categories shared back in the early 90's. In 1993, the first year on this chart, nine different teams had stolen base totals greater than their home run totals yet that phenomenon only repeated itself 39 more times in the remaining 17 seasons.
This kind of trend is not a solid indicator of success as the results are quite mixed. The 1998 Marlins had 115 stolen bases and 114 home runs as a team, and went 54-108 while the 2001 Mariners stole 174 bases and hit 169 home runs and went 116-46 under the tutelage of Lou Pinella. However, we can look at the questions everyone has been asking lately: Can a team with (insert condition) make the playoffs? Of course they can.
Looking back over the past 18 seasons, I found 48 instances of a team whose stolen base totals exceeded their home run totals in a give season. The Astros, Marlins, and Royals all tied for the most appearances with four each while only the Astros did it in consecutive seasons.
What is the largest differential any team has had that has made the post-season?
The record for the largest difference in any season belongs to Jonah Keri's Expos who won 94 games while hitting 122 home runs and stealing 228 bases. That club had eight different players steal ten or more bases led by Marquis Grissom who swiped 53 bases. Unfortunately for the Expos, there was no wildcard at this time and the Phillies won 97 games that season and won the division. The next season, the Expos were even better but the strike hit, and Le rest est l'histiore.
In 1997, the Astros made the post-season with an 84-78 record as they stole 171 bases while hitting just 133 home runs as they played in the cavernous Astrodome. In fact, none of the nine teams between the Expos and that Astros club finished with more than 82 wins which shows just how special that Expos team was.
Can a team that has more steals than homers make the post-season?
Along with the 1997 Astros, eight other teams have made the post-season based on their legs more than their power. They include last year's Rays team, the 2001 Mariners, the 2005 and 2007 Angels, the 1993 Blue Jays, the 2007 Mets, the 1996 Cardinals, and the 1995 Reds. In all, 19% of the teams over the past 18 seasons that stole more bases than hit home runs were able to reach the post-season with anywhere from 84 to 116 wins.
Can a team that has more steals than homers even finish .500?
The nine teams mentioned in the previous paragraph obviously accomplished this feat but they had more company including the aforementioned Expos, the 1993 Cardinals (87 wins), the 1996 Astros (82 wins), the 2007 Dodgers (82 wins), and last year's Athletics (81 wins). Those two groups represent 29% of the teams in this mini-study.
It seems as though pundits and fans have spent the first two to three weeks trying to rationalize the performance of the Rays looking for the last team to make the post-season with an 0-4, 0-5, or 0-6 start but it certainly seems like the hot play of late has quieted that down to the point now people are looking at who can make the post-season after starting off the season with a sub .500 record. That story will come out later this week, but if anyone tries to tell you a team that runs more than they hit cannot make the post-season, now you are armed with the data that proves otherwise.
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I think the answer to your title is still "yes"
If I am reading this right then only about 30% of teams with SB > HR even end up .500 or better. Sure, it’s possible to mkae the postseason with more SB than HR (as we proved last year) but the SB is no substitute.
no clever meme necessary
I just don't think power is to be found....
Unless they take a flyer on someone like Wily Mo Pena who is not on the 40 man for the D-Backs and could easily be plugged in at DH to see what happens. He’s not that different from Chris Davis as far as what plagues him — but in-season deals in this regime tend to be “dump” deals rather than acquisition moves.
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the best we can hope for is that our "organic" picks work
Seems like we could get decent power from Zobrist if he reverts to 2009 form (which he has shown some signs of early); Joyce; Longo; DanJo; Damon and BJ. If each of these guys could average 20 HRs then we have 120 right there.
Heck even Brignac and SRod flash the occasional thunderstick. Those two might push us to 135…Throw in a another 10 from the catcher slot and we are at 145.
But that still seems like a low total of team HRs.
no clever meme necessary
Chris Davis has a lot more upside than Willy Mo, though.
I know he still strikes out like a motherfucker, but even in 2009 with a 238 BA, he had a .209 ISO. His 2010 was shit, but he’s been hitting in the minors so far. I guess they could hold onto him in hopes that he ends up being a DH, but I still think he’s a target.
@ptSuttery
yea, but
he’s brutal against lefties as well — .217/.266/.400 in 256 PAs with 91 K’s and I’m assuming his asking price is a bit higher.
Pena has a .277/.339/.457 line in 614 PA s vs LHP and since he’s not on the 40 man roster, the asking price could be very low
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Not so sure about that. Wily Mo's raw power tool is a very clear 80.
Not very many people in the world can hit a ball in batting practice as far as him. Chris Davis hasn’t exactly shown the ability to hit major league pitching. Sure he’s got more time to figure it out, but Wily Mo is only 29. He’s just been around for so long it seems like he’s 40.
Tools Whore
It should be noted that we will have lost 66 SB from last season
while gaining Sam Fuld’s production. While the # of SB on the season is not the point of the article, last season’s lack of power was supplemented by great speed. With less power and less speed, it’ll be interesting to see the results.
lost 66
gained 11 from Damon and 21 from Fuld in AAA so a net loss of 34
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
also the assumption that at some point Jennings gets called up. Whether it is Jennings or Fuld in LF I don’t think it is unthinkable that LF will produce 40+ SB this year. While it will almost certainly not be 66 it shouldn’t be a huge dropoff
from Goldstein's piece at ESPN today (insider for full)
“Why is [Jennings] still in Triple-A right now, especially now that Manny Ramirez is gone?” asked one official. “It’s all about money there. Once they trade B.J. Upton at the deadline, which they will, he’ll be up, but him being at Triple-A right now has nothing to do with development.”
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=6395323
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
whatev
It’s KG - as reputable as they come
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
if we're still 2 games out at the deadline i'd hope we're not sellers.
big if, but still. it’d have to be a great haul to trade beej, at least as much as we got for garza.
Kevin throws out crap all the time.
What idiot official would say something as moronic as that? Somestimes it makes you think that someone may “change” the words a little bit.
Oh look, a guy named Goldstein talking about money. I'm shocked.
Proof Matthan admitted he was wrong: http://www.draysbay.com/2011/3/18/2058018/ottotd-for-3-18-2011-thursday-night-t-v#61697767
by kericr on Apr 20, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Apparently you don't know many team officials.
You can find just about any opinion in the game. So one of Kevin’s sources says that, how about having some respect for his work and not implying he makes stuff up.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 20, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
And to be clear: I don't know his source and I don't agree with his source's opinion.
I just don’t think it’s outrageous to think 1) he has a source and 2) his source said just that.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 20, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
Not everyone in baseball is necessarily smart or on top of everything with every organization. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to hear someone from an org say that.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Apr 20, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Odds are it was off the cuff too.
They love to talk and it’s not like their name is attached to it, so no harm, no foul on their end. Meanwhile, the writer got an interesting quote to run in a piece. Win/win.
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 20, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Never mind that he has like 16 ABs in AAA! LOOK, THE DODGERS BROUGHT UP SANDS, THAT MEANS THE RAYS ARE CHEEP.
Proof Matthan admitted he was wrong: http://www.draysbay.com/2011/3/18/2058018/ottotd-for-3-18-2011-thursday-night-t-v#61697767
He wasn't saying the Rays were cheap
He was quoting a team official.
For the record, he felt the Rays should have passed on Damon & let Jennings start the season with the club.
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going to comment...
but I’m going to read the full article first
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Apr 20, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You would think that Goldstein would be aware of Jennings struggles...
(relative to previous performance) in 2010 which was also only his second full season in the minor leagues.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Apr 20, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He was
Said defensive value still made it worthwhile
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He's really big on Deezy, more than a lot of other guys
@SandyKazmir Die or Ride, You Decide
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 20, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody that doesn't pay the bills for this team should have that opinion
@SandyKazmir Die or Ride, You Decide
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 20, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That may very well be true
but I am going to assume that KG is thinking we will be out of contention by than. If we didn’t trade CC (I imagine we could/did have some huge offers) than we aren’t going to trade BJ for far less if we are still in the race.
Bottom line really is runs scored vs. runs allowed,
So wouldn’t pitching (& defense) would be a big factor in wins. Doesn’t matter how you scored runs, just have to score more than they do?
Guyer
Heck, maybe even Ruggiano for some power (two straight multi-HR games, now they’re pitching around him like crazy today… 3 walks in 3 PAs)
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Apr 20, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
"maybe"; "some"
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Apr 20, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rather have a team full of guys who will get on base and drive guys in with RISP
than a couple guys who can hit 50 solo home runs.
I keep hearing reports about the Nationals having interest in BJ Upton...I guess they have scouted him a few times
by StylezMcKoolaid on Apr 20, 2011 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
Same story was put out there last year
Nothing new
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure there are plenty of teams interested in Upton.
But the Rays aren’t going to sell so early….if they’re gonna do it, they’ll draw the price up as high as possible and wait til the last possible moment to make a deal.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Apr 20, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Then they should have traded him after the first week, because he's back to normal Beej if you couldn't tell
@SandyKazmir Die or Ride, You Decide
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 21, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the point needs to be made that the odds of making the playoffs with more SB than HRs is higher
There was a lot more power and HRs during many of those years that the data is looking at. The teams who didn’t have power were giving a lot of easy runs to the big power bats which were frequent. With the lack of homers now compared to them I’m sure those teams would have fared much better.
Russell Branyan 56 HR the last two seasons
but let’s give 1B to a guy who hasn’t really played in MLB since ’07
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
How many times have we gone over this...
Branyan was looking for a major league deal. The Rays, and 29 other goddamn teams in baseball, wouldn’t give him one with his medical history. The club gave Branyan a deadline, he passed waiting for greener grass, so the club went with the next choice on the list.
Branyan ends up taking a minor league deal nearly five weeks later and I’m guessing right about now he wouldn’t have held out because he’s fighting for ABs in Arizona when he could damn well have the every day job here helping build his case for a new deal next year.
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What about someone like Ryan Ludwick?
I know it’s way too early to start rosterbating about midseason trades, but he’ll be a FA after the season and is dying a slow death in Petco. I have to assume he wouldn’t cost too much to acquire and is making under 7 mil this season. He could be a decent right handed option who hits RHP better, but is still ok against LHP.
$7M would be 1/6th of the current team payroll
Not terrible….but if Bartlett doesn’t start hitting, the Padres may never want to deal with the Rays again :)
by Jason Collette on Apr 20, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Rather deal with the Dodgers
and get Loney for 1B.
As for trading BJ…I’d like to see a 3 or 4 team trade that involves the Rays getting Montero and Storen.
And none of this is going to happen.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Apr 21, 2011 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Kotchman=Loney
@SandyKazmir Die or Ride, You Decide
by Sandy Kazmir on Apr 21, 2011 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions
which is saying something because Loney is the definition of replacement level 1B.
His numbers away from home are good, but I don’t know how much to take from that.
@ptSuttery
Yes, they need more power
And specifically from the RH side. Maddon’s philosophy and wanting to manufacture run with speed and timely hitting does work but over the course of a season, a team needs power and HR’s to win games as well. The hitting(especially some of the inconsistencies from the Rays) goes away for long stretches and puts pressure on the team to win. Even just the threat of a power bat in the line-up makes a difference sometimes. ’’
There is a reason AF has gone out and tried to fuill the DH void the last few seasons with Burrell and Manny. The Rays line-up needs a RH bat behind Longoria for production and protection and he has yet to roll aces. Even Blaylock was an attempt to add that power. And I am sure he is still looking to add that RH bat every day. The Rays can fill that power need at two spots…DH and 1st base. And any combination of those two positions would make for a much more productive offense and a more balanced attack. A guy like Loney would be an upgrade at first. He is also a solid defender but would need to be complimented with a big power DH at the same time. The really could use a guy to hit 30+ HR’s at one of those spots and even better would be to get a guy who could hit 20+ or be an established .300 hitter at the other.
I don’t know who is available at this time but those two positions are open to addiing the extra power I think the Rays really need moving forward, even after this season.

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