This Is Ridiculous
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 9:59 AM EDT
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PrintI apologize in advance, but this morning's conversation has me feeling incredibly frustrated. I feel like this community has been hung up on Casey Kotchman waaaaay too much of late, so let's end this thing once and for all. I don't even think both sides of the debate are all that far apart from each other, but the talk has grown polarized so we're debating silly points half the time. Let's lay this out, get over it, and move on to talking about other important areas of concern for the Rays.
Point 1: Kotchman is riding an incredible hot streak right now. I don't anyone will disagree with this -- Kotch has a .360 batting average, a .388 BABIP, and a .397 wOBA. He's been crazy hot this year, and it's been a really pleasant surprise.
Point 2: He will cool down eventually. Obviously he will -- not even Ichiro hits .360 all that often. I think the divide has been on how much Kotchman will cool down and if he's still a valuable contributor even when he does. At the moment, the Rays are riding a hot streak and that's okay -- it's great to get offensive value from first base, no matter how we're getting it - but as forward thinking, process-based fans, we should be thinking forward to what the Rays do when Kotchman cools off. Will he still deserve to play every day? Do they keep playing him like Fuld? Do they give DanJo more playing time? Do they acquire someone else?
This is the real issue at stake here -- there's so much uncertainty about what level Kotch will regress toward -- and it's one of the reasons I don't see Dan Johnson going anywhere. The Rays love carrying two first basemen (even if the other is as useless as Joe Dillon or Willy Aybar), and they need some insurance depending on how things continue to go with Kotchman. If Kotch can produce at his projected .333 wOBA rate going forward, then with his great defense, he would be a fine fill-in for the Rays this season. He'd have bucked some long odds to do so, but that's one of the crazy things about baseball: the improbable has a way of happening. And if Kotch tanks hard after his streak ends, then the Rays have someone ready to help out.
Point 3: Nobody is rooting against Kotchman. We're all fans of the Rays first, and getting production, no matter how unlikely or surprising, is definitely welcome. Those arguing against Kotchman are merely trying to take a long-term view, and are wondering how to best fill this organizational hole at first base in 2012, etc. This season, the Rays have a relatively weak offensive roster and are somewhat "reloading," so why not ride this hot streak while it's here? It's a long season and Dan Johnson will still get a chance to rebound (or at least, I'm hoping so). Either way, Kotchman has been a nice surprise and is giving us more depth at first base than many of us thought we had going into the season.
There. Can't everyone agree with those basic points? If we're going to talk debate about Kotchman, let's at least make it about a) how much he'll cool down and b) what the Rays should do at that point. Otherwise, appreciate his current performance and let's move on.
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This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
Shields v. Kazmir, Sonny v. Edwin, Bartlett v. Brignac
This soon will pass.
www.espn1040.com, www.theprocessreport.com, www.bloombergsports.com Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on May 13, 2011 10:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
No question we should have traded Sonny instead of Edwin
/bait
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
The 'DRB' side has been proven right on only one of those fyi
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I would say DRB is 1 and 1
with the 3rd still to be decided.
Most likely will be 2-1
I'm an F18, Bro
Yes
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Arguments vary
But usually they become so polarizing that DRB goes too far in the opposite direction
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
The debate wasn't about who to trade, it was about who was better
I was firmly on the Edwin side, and it is pretty clear he is the vastly superior pitcher. Although to be honest it would have been pretty difficult to forecast this type of dramatic decline for Sonnanstine. I was all for trading Edwin though over Sonny for precisely the reasons some have stated (cost, return) plus our logjam of young pitchers would eventually require us to trade nearly everyone at some point.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
No, the debate was very much about who we should trade. That was the whole point, as someone had to get moved that off season and it came down to those two.
It just got focused on their talent levels a lot instead of focusing on the other variables involved too.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
That's not how I remember it
I was on the Ejax side, but I understood why he was the one traded.
That might have been part of it, but a huge part of the debate was that a lot of people thought Sonny>Ejax
I'm an F18, Bro
Yeah, a large part of it was definitely that.
Although I tend to think that aspect was mostly an offshoot of the important thing: which they should trade.
And both of those guys have trended in very opposite directions since the trade, but moving Jackson was still far and away the right call.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree, the debate was started way prior to even talking about trading anyone
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Pretty sure it started with Edwin outperforming his peripherals, talking about who should be traded, and then debating the merits of both pitchers.
We made the right move, regardless of what Edwin’s done since.
@ptSuttery
That just isn't how I remember it
I don’t think a single person thought Sonny was the person to move. The debate was certainly about who was better. But I could be wrong.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Eh, maybe I'm wrong.
It’s been a while. Someone would need to search through the archives.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats probably it.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Zobrist vs Gross
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Um.
If we’re going to talk about Kotchman, let’s at least make it about a) how much he’ll cool down, and b) what the Rays should do at that point.
Isn’t that one of the “silly points”? That you can ONLY talk about how he’s going to regress and how the Rays should get rid of him, or else be called unintelligent?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
Yeah, fair enough. Just realized that too.
Obviously, it’s fine to give him credit for his fine performance. I guess what I’m saying is “If we’re going to debate about Kotchman”.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
There....this is more what I meant to say:
There. Can’t everyone agree with those basic points? If we’re going to debate about Kotchman, let’s at least make it about a) how much he’ll cool down, and b) what the Rays should do at that point. Otherwise, appreciate his current performance and let’s move on.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
This is DRB with an agenda
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Oh thank god. I was worried we were't going to get a Kotchman post today
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
We got one and a half!
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Some people rule with an iron fist.
Steve Slow rules with cranberry oatmeal cookies and a glass of milk.
@ptSuttery
Steve's not the problem, he's a good guy
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
NO! You know what, I'm sick of pretending. Steve is the worst. He hides his dictatorial nature behind a hemp facade.
He’s been banging the drum to have Kotchman put down for weeks now. He’s been running this site to make the Rays and their fans look foolish, and he isn’t happy unless the Rays do badly. Screw him.
I HAVE A VOICE I WILL BE HEARD
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Glad someone's willing to say it.
’Bout time you all caught on to me.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
All the while hiding in enenmy territory in the NE
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
That's friendly territory to Captain Hemp
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Soy milk nimbus
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd.
My man Steve, brangin’ clarity and Let’s-Be-Friendlys by the angry fistful.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
*slowly backs away*
I would be more eager to buy in to Kotchmania if I saw fundamental changes in his profile. Right now, I see the mostly same guy he was before with just different results. The eye thing might explain better pitches to hit. That’s great and might help explain the LD rate, but he still has a GB rate over 55%. I’m just not comfortable with saying he has changed in to something else based on the first month when there are still a lot of simiarities from before. If his profile (more power, less GB%) was different, maybe I’d buy a little stock in him going forward.
At the same time, I’m perfectly willing to buy into the notion that guys just come out and have career years. Is it likely that he has a 24% LD rate all year? No, but that doesn’t mean he won’t. There is almost no chance he can repeat that performance year after year, but with this team I’ve conditioned myself to live in the moment with guys on short-term deals. Let’s see what we can get from him in 2011 and worry about next year in December.
I do not take it personal with my opinions of players. That’s not to say I do not have my favorites, but just because I didn’t think he would perform well, doesn’t mean I root against Kotchman just so I can be correct on the internet. If he produces all season and helps the team win, that’s great. If he regresses, next man up.
www.espn1040.com, www.theprocessreport.com, www.bloombergsports.com Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on May 13, 2011 10:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Agreed.
It is hilarious that people are jumping on “He’s legit” during the same season of Sam Fuld’s hot streak then slump.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Fuld was a great find in the trade
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
absolutely
a free 4th/5th of with a great suplementary skillset. funny, thats what the core 4 were saying when he was acquired. then they were haters.
Disagreeing with SF1's myopic, ever-changing worldview immediately makes you Public Enemy #1 in that fantastical brain he has
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Fuld was never an offensive prospect...
Kotch was.
Well said, Tommy.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Much more interesting question
How much of Matt Joyce’s .358/.410/.569 is sustainable?
Lop ..075 to .100 off each of those numbers and it seems right
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you might see Joyce's walk rate tick back up
when the baseball no longer looks like a beach ball every AB. So a high end of .275/.360/.500? That’d be awfully tasty.
by AndrewTorrez on May 13, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, the .500 doesn't seem realistic
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
?
He’s had a ~.240 ISO in the majors to date. XBH dropped a bit at Durham in ‘09, but that might be attributable to developmental issues (e.g., facing more lefties — I’d have to dig deeper into the numbers). I don’t see any reason to think a .225+ ISO is unrealistic, I guess is what I’m saying.
by AndrewTorrez on May 13, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Depends on whether he continues to be protected from lefties or not
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
TBQH 1st priority for Guyer should be to make sure Sam Fuld isn't starting anymore before I'd address Joyces splits
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I think what you're saying
is that Guyer needs to play full-time if he’s promoted; totally agreed. I think there are enough PA to go around in the OF that it wouldn’t be an issue right now (even if the Fuld love affair continues at, say, 80% of its current level).
by AndrewTorrez on May 13, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at you pretending like you know about trolling
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
He's been north of .500 for 2009-11
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Depends on whether he continues to be protected from lefties or not
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed “My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail”
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Steve with all due respect it's mainly your own
writers who inpart make up the ‘core four’ in the hate Kotch campaign
I think your two points are something we all agree upon
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I'm anxious to find out what the hell the 'core four' is
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
A nifty rhyme.
"I have a formula for excitability actually." - RJ Anderson
by ReasonableDoubt on May 13, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean, I don't know what the concept here is. Are we talking about players or posters or what?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
RJ/Slow/#Rancel/Erik?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
1 and 3 are correct--Erik isn't a core of anything
TR, RJ, JC, SK
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on May 13, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If you think TR and I hate Kotch then you're just being an attention whore.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
That or you can't seperate objective analysis from ad hominen. Whatever gets you replies though, right?
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
SF1 certainly trolls for replies, but I don't see how you think you're not hating on Kotchman 24/7
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I hated on Jason Bartlett in 2009 too then.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, yes you did.
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh. Yeah. Well. Yeah.
I don’t like big slow guys who rarely drive the ball and hit a lot of grounders.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't think Sam Fuld was going to be amazing all year either. Did I hate Sam?
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
But you're not constantly banging the drum that he's regressing, unlike Kotchman
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure I wrote at least once or twice on TPR that he was going to have a fall and I hope people didn't hate him for it.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
you wrote 12 articles a day--so i'm sure you cover their breakfast menu
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I'm still not sure where you get that TPR has a lot of posts.
It’s three or so max. Even then, we have five writers on staff, that’s not all that insane.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
"five"
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I know who you were referring to
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He's on pace with Col Enos for material
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
you don't hate Fuld's skill set--therefore you don't hate him
and aren’t looking to replace him as you are with Kotch
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Because I think Fuld is a fourth outfielder.
With Guyer/Jennings/Joyce as the outfield next year, having a LHB capable of playing LF/CF makes sense.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Who doesn't? You don't find value in it?
RJ never once “sided” with a player but more with a skillset. Same reason he likes DanJo better than Kotch. DanJo plays good D and has more patience and power than Kotch. It’s not him hating a player but a skillset. And I’m sure he has not once rooted against Kotch during this hot streak.
exactly what i said--skill set v personality
RJ hates Kotch’s skill set this he hates the player Kotch is
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
as a #7 hitter, i love what he's been able to do
and as i said, if he gives us ‘08 LAA and ’09 ATL i’m fine with him
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
That's a big if.
If he weren’t traded then, you wouldn’t even realize he had those months.
Like last year, you get that he had a good July, right?
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
So if he gives us all of his best stretches and none of his worst stretches you're ecstatic?
Color me shocked. I hope Beej can continue to enjoy only success going forward and none of the failure that is a part of his skillset, but I’m realistic enough to know this is a pipedream. I don’t gussy it up by saying he’s fulfilling potential or he’s finally healthy. It’s the ups and downs of a skillset.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
This is fabulous
I think it should be an official DRB policy.
by ChiBurbRaysFan on May 14, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I find value in Kotch's skill set too.
But that value is in his glove, so ideally you minimize his plate appearances while trying to maximize his defensive opportunities.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
RJ--you've backed yourself into a corner on this one
and i don’t think you get out
his wOBA is 397—should Joe bench him now?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Probably not. Maddon has to handle the egos and clubhouse too.
Benching a guy who has had good results, albeit that appears unsustainable, doesn’t seem like something he can do without the players wondering what’s going on.
I do hope that Friedman can find a better player at first base.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
The other side of the story is not hate
If we weren’t pointing out why what Kotchman is doing is not very sustainable we would be shitty analysts. We don’t have the writing gigs we have here, there, and everywhere else because we are shitty analysts.
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
all day long
The credibility of the core of writers in this circle-of-trust if you will is well-documented and yet the same crowd that wanted Shields traded away and labels Joyce a AAAA player is suddenly the vocal majority. That’s what I truly hate.
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I wish I had audio archives of the callers to 1040 from the past 5 months about Shields
I remember one guy saying we should have kept Kazmir and traded Shields
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Your girlfriend wanted to trade BJ Upton for Ken Griffey Jr like 2 years ago
That was the day I vowed never to listen to her again
I'm an F18, Bro
You may have noticed I haven't been on w/ her in 6 weeks
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Pregnancy scare?
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
You started refusing to come on?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The last Rays player I truly hated was Burrell
and before him, Jae Seo
What I hate here is short-term success blinding the long-term vision
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
If I can tweak that last excellent line just a tad
What I hate here is short-term results blinding the long-term process
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, no one is calling for a 5 year Kotchract, but for this year he's our best bet
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
That's true too, but I think at this point Kotchman has at least proved to be a better-than-expected stopgap solution
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Any ideas on this?
Because I dont see us making much of an improvement with in house options, or without giving up something of value in return.
by GomesSweetGomes on May 13, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh being decent probably kills a chance at Lyle Overbay for a song.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously Arizona has three or four 1B right now, so they make sense.
Just not sure what it would take to get ’em.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
With the Royals in contention, couldn't we get Kila for a reliever, maybe?
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
We don't have relievers to spare, and their bullpen is good
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Also true
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I could go either way, but I think I'd rather have Robinson right now based on the devil I'm unfamiliar with
Kila has looked pretty awful at the MLB level in over half a season
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure Kila is different than DanJo.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Except 4 years younger and cheaper.
I’m, okay with giving Young DanJo the shot old DanJo never got.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Power and patience?
That’s DanJo skill set, if I’m not mistaken. His true talent level isn’t anything to write home about, but his skill set is what we except from 1B, isn’t it?
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
I'm not sure if it translates.
There were murmurs he couldn’t hit a breaking ball and I wonder if he’s one of those guys who can work the count in the minors and sit on a fastball, but not in the majors where the pitchers are better and more willing to attack.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course, if the price is right, I'd take my chances.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
That's my sentiment.
Also, the breaking ball issue has always seemed a little suspicious to me.
No pitcher throws just curves and sliders. Well, maybe a few elite ones, but an everyday player is going to see enough straight stuff to crush it if he has the ability.
I think the Quad-A hitter paradigm is a byproduct of sampling issues — older AAA hitters who don’t succeed immediately don’t get a chance to succeed ever.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Right, he'll get fastballs.
The question is whether he’ll be looking for them and whether they’ll be in areas he can drive.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
At $400,000 and years to play with, I'd take that gambit.
…As long as the Royal are interested in Adam Russell, of course.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Already paying DanJo though
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
He’s an older version of Kotchmans ceiling
by GomesSweetGomes on May 13, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
My flavor of the week is Clint Robinson at AAA Omaha and blocked by Billy Ray Butler, Hosmer, and Kila Monster
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, why?
Between Kotch and DanJo, I feel like we can piece together a 2011 season at 1B. It won’t be great, but we’re also not holding the highest expectations for this roster. ‘Reload’ and all.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
We're in first place in the middle of May.
There’s not a great chance we hold on, but I don’t think submitting at this point works.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying submit.
I just don’t think we need to feel pressured to go out and grab a 1B right this very minute. It’s still early May….very early in the season.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
There aren't many out there.
But I just don’t know that this team can hang with NYY/BOS over the long haul as it is constructed.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
It probably can't.
Which is why I’m kinda of the opinion that expectations shouldn’t change just because we’re in first this late in the season. I’m loving it and hope it keeps up, but I don’t think we should switch over to a “win-now” mentality yet.
If we’re close in early July, sure, but there’s no point forcing trades or trying to make stuff work when it’s sub-optimal to do so.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say win now.
But they can start calling guys up around mid-to-late June (non Jennings, unless they think Super Two is going bye-bye). Having Guyer, maybe Chirinos, and Howell o the roster helps.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, I like this.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
If nothing else, get a Cust or Branyan and throw them at DH
With Damon at 1B. His finger should be better by then.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
non-Jennings?
How freaking long do we have to wait for Jennings?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on May 13, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Assuming my numbers were right, he had 33 days last year.
So if the date is sometime in mid-June, then sometime in July.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Tom Tango looked at this today and stated that it's not this year you need to be concerned with, but two years down the road that matters
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/super_two/
If that’s the case I’d be willing to roll the dice that there won’t even be S2 in two years
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought RJ's datamonkey had a really fascinating look at this
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/5/12/2167550/when-do-standings-matter
If by mid-June we’re still in this thing then it’s time to thinking about buying, otherwise we’re sellers.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh cool, I missed that.
Sounds like a good time frame to me. Giving things another month and seeing where we stand is probably about right.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It's going to take a remarkable collapse for us to not be int this come mid-june
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
We've played one of the easiest schedules in the game. Obviously, I have no idea on the methodology behind this
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi/_/sort/sos
and beating weak competition 75% of the time is what you’re supposed to do. Luckily we still control our destiny a bit with so many games against Boston and New York to go. That said, those are the toughest competition left and by no means should we expect to roll them.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but I think some of that is neutered when we have to play in their bandboxes
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Not exactly scientific...
but should good pitching play better in a bandbox than bad pitching?
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it enough to offset the increase that good hitting sees over average hitting?
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Does good pitching neutralize good hitting more so than...
bad pitching enhances average hitting?
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be an interesting study, I await your results
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll ask the girls at Thee Dollhouse
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
They have a 1.000 winning percentage in bandboxes this year
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
Yes
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, not categorically yes, but more so that I did at the beginning of the year, certainly
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
No?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
What does this even mean
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, what's the bet?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
woba going forward this season
from may 13th-end of season. winner chooses the aviator for the loser from end of rays season to 2012 (if were still alive).
Do I automatically win when Danjo gets dfa'd in a week?
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not going to bet you anything fyi
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Fat chance.
Most DRB posters would rather die than change their avatars.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Or people who fly aircraft
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
I have no idea
One’s being put in a position where success should come more naturally while the other has to face same-handers. In a vacuum, I like to think that DanJo has a better wOBA going forward than Kotchman and the gap is wide enough to make up for any defensive offset, however minimal.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I've come to grips that DanJo won't be on this team in 2 weeks
We cover it in the podcast that will be going up here shortly
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
If it happens, it happens.
He gave us some great moments. Hopefully he can find another gig and get another chance.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
The podcast which focuses solely on Casey Kotchman.
A 2.5 hour hate-filled podcast where we hate on Casey Kotchman and say hateful things. About Casey Kotchman, no less.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Yes, please do (conditionally)
Bring one of us on to debate the point on a future show. You’ve had that Sam fool and Sternfan on as cheerleaders, bring in the other side of the debate. I’ll be the sucker liberal on the Hannity setup you have now :)
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Resulting to racism in your arguments is the hallmark of a defeated imbecile
"I have a formula for excitability actually." - RJ Anderson
by ReasonableDoubt on May 13, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
But it's not a 'hate' campaign. To call it that just drives the wedge in deeper.
Like I said above, I think it just comes down to analysts expressing that he’s likely to regress going forward. And that’s fair – I mean, you don’t expect him to continue with a .390 wOBA, do you?
The trick is, how much will he regress? Is he still worth a roster spot? Those are the questions we should be debating, not whether someone “hates” kotchman or not.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Because if there is one thing this site needs right now...it's more Kotchman posts.
"I have a formula for excitability actually." - RJ Anderson
by ReasonableDoubt on May 13, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
Cool, I wish someone had said this already in the thread
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I was way late to the Branyan/Kotch thread party.
I admit to being on the anti-Kotch side of the coin, But as long as he is producing and helping the team I am fine with him getting the bulk of playing time. But when his production inevitably comes to a screaching halt, it would be nice to have a contingency plan.
We need an OTTOTD to get our minds off of Kotchman.
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
Because he never infests OTTOTDs
"I have a formula for excitability actually." - RJ Anderson
by ReasonableDoubt on May 13, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
So we can have 100 post sub threads about him without being chastised by Flanders.
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
Write up your qualifications and post it as an OTTOTD
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
There's always some hot button issue each season.
This just seems to be one of those that won’t go away.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
lol get out
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Travis Lee v. ???
I have a faint memory of this on the radio. Who was the other (presumably better) option?
Wynn vs Pinella
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Casino Owners vs. Baseball Managers !
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
give it time
the funny thing is how many here really think kotch is the answer? how many are “pro-sonny?” im all for him continuing to play with a rabbit in his ass, but i dont see it happening.
Edwin Jackson, Andy Sonnanstine, Gabe Kapler, Gabe Gross, Jason Bartlett, B.J. Upton, Gregg Zaun, Dioner Navarro, the list goes on and on
These are petty people holding fast to the tiny scraps of life that they feel their opinion affords them.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Bringing your Z game today
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "My electrolytes are down after the workout today…I fail"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on May 13, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait, people actually don't like Zaun?
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
That trade was fantastic.
Hughes had issues all along, Zaun was a great stopgap, and they got a draft pick from it.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Like the Black Sea, bitch
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess since this is the current flavor it seems so much worse than the other debates.
But that’s most likely just in my head. That, and this debate makes no rational sense to me.
The missing portion of Steve's post is Dan Johnson
For whatever reason he isn’t as good as we all hoped he would be. I don’t even think there is much debate in that. We bought into forecasts, both statistical and qualitative, influenced through dominating AAAA,a stint in Japan, and a flukey walk rate last year.
Now while Kotchman is obviously going to play worse, the question is even a .333 wOBA Kotchman superior to Dan Johnson? What about a .320 Kotchman?
I’m beginning to think it is.
Now that sucks for the Rays, but Kotchman may be the best answer we have internally.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Dan Johnson had less than a month on the job.
I don’t think it’s fair to render a verdict.
@ptSuttery
Yeah, I don't think he has suddenly asploded.
He never had long-run BABIP problems in Oakland. His problem is a dearth of opportunities and a hot Kotch.
Still, I have come to expect him to play at career rates moving forward (maybe a touch better), which makes him very close to a regressed Kotch.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Hopefully as Kotch cools DanJo heats up like two ships passing in the night
The team would benefit greatly from having both of these guys return to norm
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
fantasy related
but last week a guy asked me if he should cut Fuld for Ibanez and I said hell yes I would.
He got rid of Fuld just as the legendary slump was kicking in and the day Ibanez broke out. That’s some beautiful ship passing right there….
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It happens all the time, but like the stock market the trick is when do you pull the trigger.
I’m a firm believer in making a move too early vs. too late.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I traded Kotchman for Kila Monster last week
Keeper league — pure speculation
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I had him in my minor league of my money league and had to bring him up after 150 PA at ML level
I got a free keeper on him for this year and said the hell with it after a month.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I was able to include Fuld in a package to net me Greinke
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Jeepers, I didn't realize Anne Frank had the internet
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
They would be better off with Kotch not returning to the norm
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
FreeZo brings up Burrell, but Burrell sucked for an entire season before we jettisoned him.
Same with Blalock. He only got 70 PAs or so with us, but he was coming off a bad season in MLB the year before.
@ptSuttery
Burrell had a very high price tag - that gave him a very long leash
I was surprised at how long it took to realize he was just a sunken cost
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
His BABIP is certainly going to move up
But his wOBA was just as influenced by a flukey walk rate. Now this year his whole process has gone down the drain.
I’m in the camp that thinks neither player is very good.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Johnson's deteroriating plate discipline
is the reason for a lot of his BABIP woes. He is constantly watching strike 1 and strike 2 go by. MLB BABIPs are horrendous at 0-1, 0-2, and 1-2 pitch counts.
Johnson's career wOBA is .325
So yes, a .333 wOBA Kotchman is significantly superior to Dan Johnson. I don’t understand why anybody expected more out of Dan Johnson. He has never been an offensive force anywhere he has been, except for one magic half season in AAA.
Hypothetical
Lets say the following things occur:
1. The Rays again load up on flamethrowing arms (from which there appear to be many options) in the draft, and get a good number of guys signed early
2. We are in it.
3. Milwaukee is not
Do you trade from a position of stength and give them one of our top arms (Moore/Archer/Torres) for Fielder and the draft picks? If yes, how far would you go?
by GomesSweetGomes on May 13, 2011 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
Not unless the club is 3-4 games in front
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
If it just took one of those arms(not Moore). I would do it
but I think it would take a lot more so no I wouldn’t want them to do it
I'm an F18, Bro
I'd be quicker than the rest of you
But I guess the big part of the equation for me is #1. From what I understand there are a lot of college pitchers with huge upside in this draft, but not as many hitters. I could see a situation where it would make sense to draft for the best available pitcher, and move existing arms for the other pieces we need.
by GomesSweetGomes on May 13, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how much of all these awesome pitchers has to do with the new bats in college. Sure seems convenient that a huge crop of good pitchers comes out right when offense has been suppressed by restricting the bats that could be used.
I’m sure it’s still a deep draft, but no one has mentioned this anywhere and it makes sense on paper.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
people were saying it before this season
though i tend to agree that people are underestimating the magnitude of the difference
Hopefully some underrated hitters slip to TB.
by R.J. Anderson on May 13, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
It seems like a year where scouts really need to earn their paycheck as the numbers are going to be way off the baseline
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
cape cod i think will play heavy from last year
it actually may help scouts because players cant just run in to easy shit. it also may help college pitchers because they wont be so nibbly.
Oh no doubt, I'm just saying that Jr. Scouts can't just look at the numbers (if you ever could) and hope to extract meaning
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i mean ive never given more than a cursory glance to college numbers.
though in the past, i think it was at hbt, someone did a great “moneyball” attempt at using only numbers to evaluate the college players. it was really cool. i took it with a grain of salt and a handful of scouting reports. its a shame my workload has gone all crazy cause with all the picks, my draft research hasnt done it justice.
Milwaukee's farm system is a barren as old mother Hubbard's cupboard
They need help, desperately
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Independant teams have better prospects on them. You think Gamel could be had for two lower level guys? Ty Morrison and Kyle Lobstein? Who hangs up first?
They're not.
I was saying it may be wiser to ask for him and give up less than the proposed asking of Prince Fielder.
Both DJ and Kotchman are going to stink
So the answer come September is Jennings LF, Guyer DH, Damon 1B.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Why? Is he wasted more than he'd be if he was riding the pine as Kotchman was at 1B and Damon at DH?
The good fielder at DH argument doesn’t hold water if it makes the team better.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
But who else would DH?
Damon 1B Guyer DH would be making the best of what we’ve got.
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on May 13, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
This its about the team WAR, not the individuals
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on May 13, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn't have to be that good offensively to be superior to Dan and Kotchman
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
I'd almost prefer to put Joyce at 1B, let Damon continue to DH, and roll with a Jennings, Upton, Guyer OF
Three CF’s and we find a way to keep Joyce and Damon in the Lineup, yes please.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I keep forgetting that Joyce throws right-handed, I'd prefer to keep a lefty on 1B and get three athletic guys in the OF
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm fine with this as well
I think getting Guyer in at the expense of Kotchman or Johnson is the move to make. No matter how Maddon rotates the line up we will be stuck with an elite OF defense, and someone that doesn’t really know how to play 1B playing that position. Thankfully it isn’t very hard to catch.
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Can Damon play 1b?
I feel like 1b is an underrated defensive position.
Not that it’s difficult per se, but that it takes practice getting used to the intricacies.
I thought Zobrist did a poor job with this when he was stuck there
I'm an F18, Bro
I'm sure he can play a passable 1B
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
He played 8 games with the Yankees apparently
The throws on 3-6-3 DP’s would be interesting
by Jason Collette on May 13, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Picks, pick off throws, knowing when to go after a ball in the hole and when to cover the bag, dp balls
These are things I feel like players who haven’t played 1b a lot do a poor job with
I'm an F18, Bro
Paing ballsdeep187
knowing when to go after a ball in the hole and when to cover the bag, dp balls
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
I remember reading comments about Rodriguez's horrible play at 3rd.
Then, after he logged more than three games there, he turned out to be decent enough. Damon could hold his own, as could Zobrist. The problem is having to watch them go through the growing pains. 
by ballsdeep187 on May 13, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but how many wins is that worth?
I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed
Way to go Slowski
Stirring the pot to generate comments.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
You know how I need to stoke me ego daily.
I was hoping this might be a bit cathartic. Dunno about that though.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Y'arrrrg!
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on May 13, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS STUPID SHIT
@dobbertweets
by blackraven on May 13, 2011 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Please refrain from commenting unless youve read the entire post and every comment.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
This thread gets 150 less comments if there had been an OTTOTD going at the time this was posted
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
I wouldve made one, but then that would have encouraged DPIR and DDRR to come in off the streets
and in a roundabout way I would have been encouraging dialogue with them. I just cant do that.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Future idea for OTTOTDs
A March Madness style bracket for worst OTTOTD poster. Nominations can be one day’s OTTOTD and then we can run through the brackets.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
I'm the #1 seed.
TGN1 is butler
www.dhazebay.com
by putupyourDUKES on May 13, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
So you're the worst?
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That's OK. I have to dumb myself down to dialogue with you.
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
22 minutes but a sick burn brah
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Play kotchman until he cools off, and he will cool off
I don’t get why there is an argument
www.dhazebay.com
by putupyourDUKES on May 13, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
Don>>>>>Sternfan
Don says:
May 13, 2011 at 10:40 am
If Martinez would grey up the beard and wear a turbine he could be target practice for the Seals….
Don is Sternfan
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
I've come to terms with Kotchman
I was in denial: “Kotchman can’t possibly be starting on this team!” Then I was angry "Stupid Kotchman got a hit, now he’ll play even more! Grrrr!’ Then I bargained, “Ok. just until Longo comes back and DanJo gets hot.” Then I was depressed, “DanJo’s never getting hot and Kotchman has the highest batting average on the team (said with a sad face).” But now I’ve come to accept it and just the other day, with a clean conscience, I wrote in Kotchman on an All-Star ballot. And I’m ok with that.
You put Kotchman in the ASG ahead of Teix, Cabrera, A-Gon and a host of others?
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's why I put Teix first
Watched the Royals stomp the Yanks in a bar last night, no one cared. My neighbor is a “huge” Yankee fan, but said he doesn’t really pay attention until the playoffs. Most people I ask about their NY hat tell me they like it because it matches their clothes. Yankee fans aren’t Yankee fans and neither am I.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
All I wear is pinstripes everywhere
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
.360 IS 100 POINTS BETTER THAN .260 + BEST FIELDING % OF ALL TIME!
That and I fill out two ballots, one for those I think objectively deserve it and one I fill out while wearing Rays gear (a hat and Gomes shirt) of those I root for to make it. This was the latter and it was filled out as I imbided the intoxicating atmosphere of the Trop after an inning in which Kotch had a nice line-drive single. Still, I have no regrets. The fact that I was able to actually make the effort to even write out his name says a lot to how far I’ve come.
I did the same thing with the AS Ballot.
It wasn’t quite a clean conscience, as I mainly did it just to watch the hysteria if it actually happened. Win-win scenario.
(He will not make the AS team, but it’s fun to dream….)
by JaxRaysGirl on May 13, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why female fans get a bad rap
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He was the only one I did that for. I didn't just vote for all TB people (as a lot of female fans do).
I’m not going to break down every vote, but with Kotch, it was funny. I see all the vitriol spewed on here about him (that goes both ways) and it made me laugh just thinking about it. Female fans also get a bad rap just for being female, since it’s a “boys club” mentality. But this is a thread about Kotch and not misogyny, so we’ll keep it on topic.
by JaxRaysGirl on May 13, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Late to the party, but my two cents
It’s likely that he will regress to replacement-ish level. But there is a not-insignificant-chance that he is a late bloomer, or that he has finally figured out major league pitcher, or that he’s landed in the right environment to allow him to flourish, or however you want to say it. If come July, Kotch is still putting up above average hitting stats, and he’s amenable to a team-friendly extension, you’d have to look at it. Obviously you don’t want to overpay for a first baseman that even in the best case scenario brings little power. But money saved on an (typically) overpaid position player can be used to bring in more attractive bats at other positions.
This isn't something that is quantifiable
but he’s living in his home town. Driving to work along streets you grew up on and living in your home town has to make a player more comfortable. It may be that playing here in front of friends and family has made him more comfortable at the plate.
@staplemaniac
by staplemaniac on May 13, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always hated this argument.
Whatever it is you do for a living, would you suddenly be terrible at it if you got transferred to San Diego, or Toronto, or wherever?
No, you’d be about as good as you are now. Duh.
by ChiBurbRaysFan on May 14, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You know we once had a guy named Carlos Pena who was a journey man before he got here also
He was pretty much a bust before he got here and Maddon got a hold of him. Maddon has a way of squeezing every inch of potential out of players and that is one of the great talents of his. I mean remember Kotchman was once a highly thought of prospect for the Angels and was even traded pretty much straight up for Mark Texiera. So at one point in Kotchman’s career he was thought of very highly by some great managers.
by StylezMcKoolaid on May 13, 2011 1:15 PM EDT reply actions
#MagicofKotch
I think we should be all glad we’re having this debate. If the Rays weren’t cruising, we’d be discussing trading Bossman & Shields instead… This debate is not only refreshing, but enjoyable as well. I would’ve never guess it would be Kotch, not Manny that would be the big debate among Rays fans.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
For people bringing up Pena as a comparison:
Pena hit a shit ton of home runs in the 2nd half of 2006. He wasn’t one of the worst hitters in baseball when we picked him up.
@ptSuttery
Late bloomer, just like the Kotch man
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 13, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
After careful consideration...
I have determined this has to be the most useless post ever. Sorry Steve but what point are you trying to make? Everyone is aware of each posters stance on the Kotchman debate and there was nothing new brought to the table here. The only thing ridiculous is the group of you guys who wish DanJo didn’t suck (a certain region the male tender area) at the beginning of the year continue to beat this topic to a pulp. He’s playing well and producing for this team so all the negative feedback on Kotch has become sad.
To be honest, all of these fans that are riding the Kotch bandwagon have conceivably been created by your group who talked up DanJo in the spring and dismissed anything Kotch did. All you guys ever talked about was how terrible Kotch is and how he would never be productive. I don’t think Kotch is the answer at first but wasting my time fighting his productivity for this team is stupid. I’m enjoying his hot streak and believe he can be an asset to this team if he doesn’t regress immensely.
The common fan that is all caught up in the Kotch Craze is probably just enjoying the fact that a player who was given no shot to help this team whatsoever by the team writers/bloggers is able to prove them wrong and be successful in the underdog role. Once again this whole entire post is just an echo of what you guys have been preaching the whole year and it’s getting annoying. So this monster that you possibly created with the continued Kotch negativity talk is something you have to deal with. You’ve made your bed, now lie in it.
by DaveMartinezbeard on May 13, 2011 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
After careful consideration...
I have determined this has to be the most useless comment ever. I stopped reading after the third sentence.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
You're funny
your ignorance and continued unnecessary stupid comments makes most of your post worthless. I’m sorry but be original and find your own voice instead of repetitive nonsense covered in the previous days game day threads. Good day.
by DaveMartinezbeard on May 13, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009. You got me.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
by Sandy Kazmir on May 14, 2011 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Every few days
there’s another post that basically amounts to “Is there anything we can do to make SF1 STFU?”
And the answer is obviously: no.
why do the rest of us have to suffer?
There’s no point in this because during each comments section this topic is discussed so devoting a whole column to this is like the lady friend making a huge scene for something so small, yes they may have a point but is it really worth anyone’s time.
“We get it, I probably should make my own sandwiches but there’s no need to make a call me a piece of shit in front of our friends about it”
by DaveMartinezbeard on May 13, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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