DRaysBay's Stadium Proposal - Part 2

Get used to this image, Rays fans and Bay Area residents, as the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transit Authority (TBARTA) unanimously approved this Master Plan Vision for the next 40 years last Friday. Should everything go as planned, the Bay Area will take on the image by 2050, with Bus Rapid Transit, the Long and Short Distance Rail, and the Water Transit funneling from the eight separate counties into the Tampa-St. Petersburg metropolitan area.
If only a small percentage comes to fruition, then the Rays will be in position to capitalize on the nation’s 19th most populated region. Hillsborough County has seen increases in population and density as Tampa became (arguably) the focal point of the Bay Area over the last decade. The data from the 2010 Census the eight counties in the area rank like this:

The primary drawing pools for a new stadium should focus on Hillsborough and Pinellas counties, with the rest falling into a secondary market. What also becomes evident is that Hillsborough County should hold the future site for a new stadium, preferably within a close distance to Pinellas County. The Riverfront Site proposal from Part One is within Hillsborough County and is bounded by I-275 and the Crosstown Expressway—both serve as critical arteries in linking Pinellas and Hillsborough. Using this base for a new scenario, now it’s time to examine stadium possibilities behind the Riverfront Park location.

For those that aren’t familiar, this is a rendering of the failed Sail Stadium design proposed by the Rays in 2007. Initial stadium design consisted of the Rays and Populous (the firm in charge of design) choosing functionality and cost-benefit analysis over convention without compromising design. For example, a traditional retractable roof seen in stadiums like Toronto and the new Marlins ballpark can send a $400M stadium into the $600M range. Add the amount of extra land required supporting its footprint and you could be looking at the $700 million dollar range. The benefit is obviously the assured protection against Mother Nature, as well as fan comfort. However, considering that maybe a dozen home games get rained out completely, and that most home games begin while the sun is going down, the revenue lost does not necessitate a nearly 200 percent increase in cost. With the sail proposal, you get the best of both worlds; fans are protected from the sun and rain at minimal cost and the team benefits from unique design. It is for these reasons that the Sail proposal was a perfect fit for this region as well as the Rays and there is no need to drastically change it.

The only addition I’m making personally is something of a pet project of mine. Considering the way the Rays operate (known as the Extra 2% to fans around here h/t to Jonah Keri) I’m proposing that when/if the Rays move forward with a new stadium, they recycle a major part their short history: the Trop. In the interest of paying homage to the past, the Rays can recycle Tropicana Field's roof and catwalk material by creating awnings, coverings, and sculpture gardens around the new park. It's a minor gesture, but one with significance and symbolism, as the Rays are no stranger to turning trash into treasure.

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Repost from yesterday, which didn't get much attn:
Great Discussion I’m glad to see this site approaching the stadium subject. A few points:
- Can anyone explain the contract easing in 2016? I’ve heard it has something to do with city bonds, but don’t understand how it would effect the Rays committment to play in the Trop until 2027.
- I really don’t see Toytown as a potential site, as it doesn’t seem possible to put a baseball stadium on an old landfill. Mangrove Bay GC used to be a dump, and all they could get there was a golf course and little league baseball fields.
- Don’t even think about water access to a stadium across the bay. Nobody is taking a ferry to/from St Pete – Tampa and vice versa.
- I think it’s going to be hard to get much public financing for any new stadium deal. Hotel taxes and car rental fees might fly, but don’t expect the public to agree on any add’l sales taxes. Local governments might be able to offer public land, though.
- The more discussion I hear regarding a new stadium, the more I love the Trop. I used to think it was the worse ballpark in baseball, but now feel that it’s a great place to go for a game in Florida. I love walking into 72 degrees of cool Rays blue after trekking over the pedestrian bridge from Campbell Park. Fenway used to be considered a dump – now look at it’s reputation.
by Jonny Gomes Heart Attack on Jun 28, 2011 3:09 PM EDT reply actions
This should answer a lot of your questions regarding the lease.
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2010/graphics/rays-timeline/
Sign lady must die.
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by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whoa, that was an awesome article
and frightening. I really really would hate to see the rays leave. (unless its to go to Orlando) but Orlando may not be able to support a baseball team, I’m not sure if the passion is there.
Yeah, I don't see Badancil turning out well.
@dobbertweets
by blackraven on Jun 27, 2011 5:08 PM PDT
Passion nor money
The 3 headed monster of funding Amway, Arts Center, and Citrus Dump upgrades is a disaster. Amway went over budget, Arts Center is having to cut way back, and the Citrus Dump has $175M of stuff still not done. The city should just give that money to UCF to add to its stadium to keep the bowl games. If I’m Capital One and what not, why bring the game to Orlando and that craphole of a stadium downtown?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree here.
and traffic is no better in Orlando either. unless you want to pay 5 dollars on toll roads.
UCF is probably in over its head funding the medical school anyway, that building did not come cheap.
Yeah, I don't see Badancil turning out well.
@dobbertweets
by blackraven on Jun 27, 2011 5:08 PM PDT
at least the med school is very easy to get to
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
it is?
I wasn’t aware.
Yeah, I don't see Badancil turning out well.
@dobbertweets
by blackraven on Jun 27, 2011 5:08 PM PDT
retract that
i thought you said it was easy to get IN to.
not to get to.
sorry. no its easy to get to, because its in the middle of nowhere, i know I live right next to it.
Yeah, I don't see Badancil turning out well.
@dobbertweets
by blackraven on Jun 27, 2011 5:08 PM PDT
What about the fact that lightning strikes in the area pretty much constantly every June, July and August?
Wouldn’t that make the retractable roof idea much more attractive?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I agree...
outdoor games our just not ideal for the majority of the season
Boom. Outta Here.
I am sure your god would be so proud you plaster his name onto money and license plates and bumper stickers. Such reverence. Nothing says how pious you are than to plaster a cheap bumper sticker to your god on a Kia.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 28, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
How do the minor league parks in the area put up with this?
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
They don't really...
how much attendance do they draw per game?
Boom. Outta Here.
I am sure your god would be so proud you plaster his name onto money and license plates and bumper stickers. Such reverence. Nothing says how pious you are than to plaster a cheap bumper sticker to your god on a Kia.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 28, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
are they kept away by lightning strikes?
that’s what I was getting at
Nightly averages:
Clearwater: 2617
Tampa: 1900
Bradenton: 1353
Lakeland: 1040
Dunedin: 648
Charlotte: 2462
You figure 3 of those are playing on the same night each time so 5,010 fans a night are choosing the minor league option when a major league team is within a 90 minute drive.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Charlotte 90 minutes?
And you can get in the door to just about any of those places for $5
Boom. Outta Here.
I am sure your god would be so proud you plaster his name onto money and license plates and bumper stickers. Such reverence. Nothing says how pious you are than to plaster a cheap bumper sticker to your god on a Kia.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 28, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Google maps says 91 minutes from Port Charlotte to Trop
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay...
I still wouldn’t compare the two situations. I would imagine that a lot of the minor league attendance isn’t even paid. I also think that for the new stadium to be successful they are going to need a large corporate season ticket base.
Boom. Outta Here.
I am sure your god would be so proud you plaster his name onto money and license plates and bumper stickers. Such reverence. Nothing says how pious you are than to plaster a cheap bumper sticker to your god on a Kia.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 28, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It's probably not too hard to clear a stadium for lightning when it's that small.
I’ve been to a couple Bucs games that were delayed for Lightning and it was a huge pain in the ass. Does MLB have a policy for lightning strikes?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Not sure.
For the Bucs they usually send everyone to the concourses and wait it out.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Luckily by the time the regular season starts the lightning storms have pretty much petered out
but if MLB has a similar policy you could count on Lightning delays at least once or twice a week during the summer months.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Would be cool and Extra 2% if you could harvest lightning for energy.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you literally just pulling these numbers out of your ass?
I would love to know how many times FSL or Marlin games are lightning delayed.
I bet it’s closer to once or twice a year
Tampa Bay is the Lightning capital of the world
and during the summer it storms almost every afternoon. You dumb. Miami is on the East coast and not even close to the same situation.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Oops. Meant to say lightning capital of the US, not world
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Damn I'm lucky I didn't get struck last night when I was at the game
Lots of lightning around.
I don’t know how all the people that go to FSL games don’t get struck.
Please tell me how many FSL games get stopped because of Lightning and then I will believe you that it is an issue
It's not about getting struck by lightning dumbass
It’s about the policy of clearing the stands if there is lightning in the general vicinity of the stadium. I’ve already said I don’t know what MLBs policy is, but if it is their policy to clear the stands and delay the game when lightning strikes in the area then a lot of games are going to be delayed during the summer months. And that’s a pain in the ass.
Every time I try to type anything about lightning into google along with tampa it brings up a million hockey links, so I’m not sure how to wade through all that. I’ve been to about 6 or seven games at brighthouse over the years and one was cancelled and another delayed about an hour or so. That’s just my experience, but if you think weather doesn’t play a part in building an outdoor stadium then I guess there is no arguing the point.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
How many times have there been lightning delays at any of those games?
I would bet it is minimal. Same with the Marlins. My guess is minimal.
I think it’s a nonissue
UCF has had 1 lightning delay in the entire 4 yrs that BHNS has been open and it was in the first game vs Texas
That’s all the hard data I have to work off of.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Miami gets far less lightning than Tampa.
They get tropical showers. Tampa’s summer storms are much more violent.
http://www.weather.gov/om/lightning/images/map.pdf
Notice the only place in then entire US in the 16+ category… right where this proposed stadium would go.
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by Jamie DeVriend on Jun 28, 2011 4:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also 1-2 nights per season in football is a lot different than 30 or so nights a season in baseball.
The odds of lightning disrupting a Rays game would be a lot higher because there are more of them.
Voodoo Five - South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
The Toughest Blog in America
by Jamie DeVriend on Jun 28, 2011 4:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Buildings can be grounded.
It’s not unheard of to take extraordinary measures to lightning-proof a structure.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Although the beam holding up the sail is the highest point in the immediate area and will get hit often
Which would scare the shit out of everyone since they’re all within about 100 yards of it.
Voodoo Five - South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
The Toughest Blog in America
by Jamie DeVriend on Jun 28, 2011 4:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How often do the skyscrapers in downtown get struck?
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd assume this part of the structure was planned out in 2008 as well
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Far less?
It is one category below.
How many violent storms have we had all June?
Maybe 1.
The rain/lightning issue is being exaggerated imo.
Especially since the building proposed will have a sail that would block the rain anyway.
Two categories. Tampa is pink (16+), Miami is orange (4-8).
So between 2-4x as much lightning.
Voodoo Five - South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
The Toughest Blog in America
by Jamie DeVriend on Jun 28, 2011 4:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Miami looks to be in the 8-16 range
Homestead is in the orange.
Point remains. Is this really what we are talking about? Lightning?
I love the additions to the proposal
- The Trop will not be imploded unless the new stadium is built there, so its a probable no-go on using pieces of it for the new stadium. They will likely find some AFL2 team, or another B-level sport (rollerderby anyone?) to take up the space.
-A dome is necessary. It just is. we live in Florida, and it is miserable to sit outside for any period of time, even with a shade like the sail provides (although I love that design so much it kills me). Realistically though, even at night during the summer the humidity can make it awful to sit outside, and I don’t see fans showing up all summer 6 days a week. The bucs can afford it, they only play 8 games at home. The Rays can’t.
-The lightning thing just got mentioned. so I’ll just point you northward.
-Transit is the key. It just is. I love the Trop, and I think alot of others can begrudgingly admit that too. The problem is, and will always be, transit. Without a good system it doesnt matter where in the bay you put it if the other half of the bay cant get there. (I am aware that you have discussed this, but either way thats more important than any design or funding)
-Id pay the tax, and lawmakers in the state of Florida have a habit of sneaking all kinds of things past the voters since the vast majority don’t even know what they are voting on. It is a large obstacle though.
Yeah, I don't see Badancil turning out well.
@dobbertweets
by blackraven on Jun 27, 2011 5:08 PM PDT
Ok
-Ehhhh…it might hang around for awhile.
-Disagree
-Disagree
-True, but this location is convenient to more people than the Trop is now
-I also would gladly pay a tax for a new stadium. The Rays increase my quality of life
Disagree on your disagrees
Boom. Outta Here.
I am sure your god would be so proud you plaster his name onto money and license plates and bumper stickers. Such reverence. Nothing says how pious you are than to plaster a cheap bumper sticker to your god on a Kia.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 28, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Paying a tax for a new stadium.
Personally, I would not vote to pay a tax for a new stadium. Although I agree that the Rays increase my quality of life, I also feel that both owners & players make too much $$$ off of baseball, and a tax would only push these sums upward. Couple that with the idea that publicly funded stadiums further push moneys from the broad middle/lower class into the hands of the wealthy (see the Bucs suite repairs article from a month ago).
Regardless of my personal opinions, I don’t think you’ll find the public support necessary to pass a general tax onto the public for a new stadium.
by Jonny Gomes Heart Attack on Jun 28, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It may not be necessary if they can set up a tax district around the stadium
Boom. Outta Here.
I am sure your god would be so proud you plaster his name onto money and license plates and bumper stickers. Such reverence. Nothing says how pious you are than to plaster a cheap bumper sticker to your god on a Kia.
by Ryan Gilliss on Jun 28, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Which, IIRC has been mentioned by Buckhorn or someone re: Fairgrounds land.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
County Comissioner
Do you realize Betty White is a milf for me? Ouch
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
by sternfan1 on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, but that's equally crazy
Another example of local lawmakers sneaking in taxes. It might not come directly from our pockets, but any increases in property taxes should not be specifically directed towards infrastructure improvements supporting a new stadium.
by Jonny Gomes Heart Attack on Jun 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The Trop will be demolished sooner rather than later if the team moves.
I think it would instantly become the second biggest parcel available in Pinellas County. The land would become too valuable to leave vacant, in my opinion.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's fund this prick from the money we receive from off shore drilling here in Florida
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
They should have taken the money and made the stadium the train station in Tampa
ala FSU using gov’t money for to renovate their stadium by adding a few classrooms in it.
Or, you know, Social Security.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
let's take it from medicare
None of us here need that money anyhow
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Why am I paying to keep someone alive when all they do is consume resources?
It’s not like they’re in their prime age contributing to the work force anymore.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
death panels are highly underrated
Let the unproductive die off and give their homes to the illegals that want to come here to work. Win-win IMO, and since they pay into a system they can’t collect from, we just divert that $$ into the stadium funding.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Funding is Part 3, gramps.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe we can get a some tips from rick scott on how to steal it from the federal government
www.dhazebay.com
by putupyourDUKES on Jun 28, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you think he's been to The Trop already?
shhhhh
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jun 28, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Strikes me that he would be able to help with the exact opposite of that
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "ooooown u poop"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 28, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: new stadium design
1) where are the ceiling fans?
2) can a stadium like that fit in Carrillion as easily as riverside Tampa?
3) this is Florida. Air conditioning, b-tches. Or no deal.
Time to shamelessly plug my book and short story!
There was about $2 million budgeted towards "cooling methods" in the original proposal, IIRC.
They were planning on trying everything from fans to A/C vents underneath every seat.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 28, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone know what the sail was supposed to be made of?
Was it just a big tent, or some kind of plexiglass?
I'd imagine similar to whatever the Trop's roof is made of.
Sign lady must die.
Follow me on Twitter @Josh_Frank
by EminenceFront on Jun 29, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions

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