Frustration Boils Over: Ranting About the Rays' Roster
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 10:38 AM EDT
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I'm not exactly sure how to say this tactfully, so I'm just going to throw it out there: this Rays team is boring. It feels so weird to say that, considering the Rays are only four games out of the division race and they have the third-best record in the American League, but it's nonetheless true. Our expectations have been set high due to having one of the most exciting teams in baseball these past few seasons, but still, when this team is struggling offensively, it can be downright painful to watch games.
But the reason I find this current team boring goes beyond the play on the field. Around this time last season, I remember looking forward to the 2011 season in a weird sort of way. I think Erik summed it up well in one of his posts last August:
As weird as it may sound to some, I think next year's less talented team will be more fun to root for. Sure, we probably won't enjoy as many victories as the 2010 team provides us with, but we'll get to watch Desmond Jennings, Jeremy Hellickson, and Jake McGee try. Once again the Rays will be an underdog, with freshly minted stacks of house money to gamble with.
This season was supposed to be a relaxed, youth-driven year. A year to allow our young players to develop and see what they could do in the majors. We'd be underdogs again -- and we are -- but I was hoping and expecting to see more players in the majors that are part of the Rays' long term plan. Instead, the Rays have spent the majority of the season with what feels like -- no, what is -- an inferior roster, playing bench players while keeping their top prospects in Triple-A.
So here we are. The Rays have an outside chance at reaching the playoffs (BPro gives them 1:10 odds), but they aren't making easy roster moves that would help increase their chances. The Super Two date has passed, but Desmond Jennings is still in the minors and Sam Fuld and Justin Ruggiano are still splitting time in left field. Sean Rodriguez has only 70 more plate appearances than Elliot Johnson, and Andy Sonnanstine is being paid to sit on his bum while Jake McGee is striking out 10 batters per nine in Triple-A. And I keep asking myself: why?
I'm not asking the Rays to sacrifice development in order to field a better team this season. What else does Desmond Jennings need to work on in Triple-A? In what world does Elliot Johnson deserve to get a start instead of Sean Rodriguez? And hasn't Jake McGee already made improvements since being sent down earlier this season? Right now, it feels to me like the Rays aren't playing for this season, but also aren't playing for the future. They seem stuck in limbo, and it makes it painful to follow and watch the team.
This isn't just an isolated incident, either. The Rays chose to give Andy Sonnanstine multiple starts earlier this season before calling up Alex Cobb, and this front office has typically been very slow and deliberate in promoting prospects. That's a fine strategy most of the time, but right now? With Desmond Jennings having a career year in Triple-A? This is passing into the realm of the absurd.
So please, Rays, promote Jennings already. Stop playing Elliot Johnson so often. And cut bait with Andy Sonnanstine. Why are you entering a series against the Yankees -- a series with big ramifications in the standings -- with a daily lineup that features Fuld or Ruggs? I've been as patient as possible, but I've run out of excuses. Please, stop boring us.
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In 2016 when we're saying $1.6 million on Brandon Guyer to play 4th outfielder we'll look back on this post and laugh at how impatient we were #teamstusprofitmargin
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "ooooown u poop"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 7, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions
glad i am not only one who finds this team boring
I do this for free
by SRQman on Jul 7, 2011 11:01 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
They need to hire Whitney Johnson to replace Anderson. That will make it more fun. I hear he's on the market.
“Longo, were you listening to Skynyrd or Kansas during your last strikeout?”
I agree that I'd like to see some of the AAA guys
but this team is not at all boring. We have seen the emergence of Matt Joyce as a big time, All Star player. We’ve seen Casey Kotchman come out of nowhere to become a consistent hitter with a smooth glove who will be in the running for the AL batting title and maybe a Gold Glove when he gets enough at bats. We’ve seen Johnny Damon liven things up, and Kyle Farnsworth exceed expectations. Notably all four of these guys have local connections.
We’ve also seen James Shields blossom as an All Star pitcher and pickoff artist, and David Price show his moments of dominance. BJ and Fuld and SRod have also had their moments. Zobie continues to do Zobie things.
If we can see Longo regain his 2008-2010 form this will be a really exciting team. The kids will have their time.
by Professor Twain on Jul 7, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Shields and Joyce have been the real highlights for me.
I’m not saying there haven’t been bright spots for this team — just that the roster is frustrating and is composed mostly of players that are temporary fill-ins. Farnsy, Kotch, Damon, Fuld, Johnson, Ruggs — I love all that they’ve done, but it’s not like we expect them to be key parts of this franchise going forward. I just really want to see the young players in there more.
So it’s weird….I still like watching Farnsy, Kotch, etc. play and rooting for them, but it’s tougher for me to get really excited about seeing them on a nightly basis. Nothing wrong with feeling differently, though.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
2010 team had plenty of players who had no future with the franchise
And they certainly had some pretty frustrating stretches of play.
I do understand the big difference: that we at least felt like we had our best team on the field last year. We had plenty of shiny new toys in the farm, but we knew they weren’t ready.
But this is a lot of pressure on Jennings (I don’t see how McGee would be in any position to excite us). Plenty of young guys with a future on the team have played this year – the results have been all over the place. What if Jennings struggles, or is just average? You’re telling me he’s going to make this team suddenly a blast to watch? Heck, what if he’s great, but the rest of the team remains roughly the same?
I actually don’t find this team nearly as boring as you, but I obviously respect anyone’s right to find the team boring and awful. I’m just concerned with the idea that Jennings is going to fix it all.
I like pie
I guess it's more a philosophical distinction than one in terms of actual play on the field.
It’s tough to get excited about a team with slim-to-none playoff hopes (10% chance, BPro) and few young players. What are you watching then? A team that’s caught in limbo and not actively striving toward either goal, especially when they’re leaving players that could improve their team in Triple-A. Even if Jennings struggles, at least he’s the future and the Rays would be seemingly making the effort to compete this season.
In 2010, we had a more legit chance at the playoffs and we were putting our best roster forward every chance we got (remember the Helly callups?). I don’t really see the comparison.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No matter which way you want to look at it, the Rays are being baffling.
If we’re competing for the division and making a run for the playoffs, why isn’t Jennings up? Why are we playing suboptimal players like Johnson and Fuld/Ruggs?
And if we’re not playing for the division but playing for the future….why isn’t Jennings up? Why are we playing short-term-fix players like Johnson and Fuld/Ruggs?
GAH.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Jennings comes up until BJ is moved.
If Jennings is going to be a part time player(because BJ is still here) and Damon remains the LF’er/DH, he will not get enough consistent PT to be an impact. The plan should not be to bring a young player up just because the fans want to see him but because he will impact the team and have the opportunity to play and develop. Ih he comes up, I think he comes up for good.
That will happen if BJ is traded or if come the deadline the Rays are far enough back in the race that thoughts turn to next season.
Why can't you plug him in as the everyday LFer right now? There's no reason the Rays couldn't do that right now.
Do that until Upton is traded, at which point you call up Guyer for LF.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem may be Damon.
For all the good things that Damon has done, he then becomes the full time DH in this line-up. And while he has filled that role(some key hits, decent OBP) decently, moving forward he doesn’t solve the problem of adding the power in the middle of the line-up that this team needs, as a DH or any other position player does. I don’t think Jennings adds that either.
As I stated in another post, the dynamics of this line-up is missing several key pieces. Jennings may add some speed and a decent bat but that is becoming redundant in this line-up. What the team really needs is two power hitting bats behind Longoria. Jennings may bring some excitement but he and Damon added together may not be the answer for now.
There's more of a power problem at 1B
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Malm is on his way
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Finally putting the Brett Wallacean lower body to good use.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Johnny Damon's not the Rays' full-time DH already?
Ummm, you should take a look at our recent lineups: http://www.baseballpress.com/lineup_team.php?team=TB
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, can't remember the last time he wasn't in the 2-hole either.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
And where has that gotten the Rays offense?
But to the point, the power is missing. From 1st base, DH. LF, catcher.
That should be the main focus in improving this offense, IMO.
Moving a player from DH to LF doesn't magically increase their production.
Power is missing, yeah, but there’s nothing we can do about that. What we can do is call up Jennings.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is much worse at 1B and LF...
I think Jennings could give us the power that is in line with what we would expect from our LF
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Ruggs hacker approach hasn't been bad so far
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn't walked in 72 plate appearances
That’s tough to do
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jul 7, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean in his last 72 PA's?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
DJ would not have outperformed Fuld/Ruggs in June anyway
Who should be play at SS if not for EJ?
Reid has been beyond awful.
I have no idea why they don’t get rid of Sonny. He must have some dirt on Frieds or something
Most likely would not have
I want to see DJ and Guyer up as well, but Fuld/Ruggs haven’t been the problem with our offense
Like I said, I do understand the big difference
My main point is that I don’t know what Jennings is going to do for someone who’s bored. If Jennings replace Ruggiano and McGee replaces Sonny, we still have guys like Fuld and Elliot and Kotchman. That might alleviate the frustration of seeing Jennings accomplish nothing at Durham – but do you really think you won’t be bored anymore?
I like pie
I think it'll go a long way toward making me feeling like the club has direction.
And so yeah, it’ll help me. Fuld and Elliot are fine on the roster, as long as they’re used as backups like they should be — not starters. And Kotch (and Damon) is the best option we have right now, so no complaints there.
…and I guess I should be clear: I’m sure the Rays have a plan and all this stuff will get done by the beginning of August. I just want some of the easier parts done sooner.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
But I'm also weird.
I’d be fine with us losing more games if it meant I felt the team was moving in the right direction long term. It’s this halfway nonsense I find the worst.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Just like watching Cobb, Hellickson, Longo, etc. was exciting when they were called up.
Even when they struggle, there’s something awesome about having the young talent finally arrive.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
yes. its something new. anything would be an improvement.
honestly, the biggest reason for my dropoff in interest has been that we have 2 shitty starters in the rotation and another who works slower than molasses. throw in joyce’s dropoff, and our two best hitters have been a slap-hitting 1b, and a guy in the top 5 in ks in the league. thats not a recipe for fun.
This is what I'm getting at
Assuming things remain as they’ve been, Jennings doesn’t solve Niemann and Davis, or the catchers, or Brignac, or whatever your own personal source of boredom has been.
I like pie
Steve, am I naive in thinking they're keeping him down somewhat well past the S2 date to make it seem like he wasn't down for so long for that reason?
#$tinky$tu
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
I doubt it...
haven’t they been pretty aggressive before with players in this situation?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, I tend to doubt it, but it's possible.
My best guess is they’re just waiting for an Upton trade, and don’t see the need to call him up to play LF right now….maybe they think that would lower Upton’s trade value. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for this season, though.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that after the Manny debacle the Front Office thought we would be in it this year.
I had even chalked it up as a rebuilding year in which we would win more then we lost but without any real playoff thoughts.
by Peter Piontek on Jul 7, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Rays fans have been spoiled.
They have actually had the opportunity the last 4 seasons to be able to watch a pretty consistent roster of players on the field, who have actually competed(and won) titles, been mostly entertaining( sometimes boring and frustrating) and more importantly could be counted on.
But with the mass exodus this winter, 2011 was always going to be a transition season, despite what hopes for new additions and possible appearances of young prospects that fans may have expected. AF did his thing in putting a team on the field that is cost effective, has competed and is hanging around in the race. The call for changes now is no different than in seasons past come the trade deadline. The desire this year may be more desperate with fans understanding that not only is the team less talented, is lacking in overall excitement and seemingly has younger players waiting by the phone to inject some life into the team. All this while holding out the hope that the play-offs are still a possibility.
I don’t think much will change come the deadline because of the still impending question marks that surround this team. Can Kotchman and Joyce keep hitting the way they are?, is Damon(for all he has done so far) really a good fit in this line-upas presently constructed>(and what will happen next year with him?), can the bullpen hold up with the innings continuing to mount?, and is there enough depth should injuries take their toll?
AF will do what he has always done this time of the year. Evaluate not only the team and their chances of staying in the race for the remainder of the season but what moves to make that will give the fans some hope that the he is actually making an effort. The bigger picture though, will always be moves that are designed for the future, both economically, and talent wise.
And since I still think this year was a transition season(and maybe he has got more than he could have actually hoped for to this point), he will be hesitant to add major pieces come the deadline but look to add pieces(and remove them) that will put the focus squarely on 2012. Not 2013 and beyond…but next season.
Eh...
Longo’s performance has been fine, not as good as 2008-2010, but it still projects out to ~6.5 WAR/162
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Put a shirt on
Longo has been good but he he’s not looking like the 7.6 WAR he produced in 2010
by Professor Twain on Jul 7, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right...
he’s been top 2% instead of top 1%
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
I still suggest that the Rays line-up must be looked at on the whole.
Longo’s numbers may appear decent and a couple of huge games(like Houston and yesterday) may skew the stats, but the lack of power and consistent run production behind him and elite speed in front of him is a main reason for the team’s struggles on offense.
what the fuck does that have to do with any of what I wrote?
Don’t drop your turd commentary on to my posts.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Then don't respond with your shit either.
You say Longo’s numbers are fine, and admit they are down from the last 3 seasons. Project all you want.
I say that his drop is based on several reasons dealing with the line-up dynamics and that his lack of production overall is part of the Rays offensive struggles. And many here will agree with that.
YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG....
he’s on pace for 5.4 WAR and he missed one third of the season. Stop being dumb.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
So they scrap Sonny and bring back McGee - then what?
McGee or Russell get all dusty in the bullpen? If the team insists on having that many pitchers, Sonny is perfect for the four-innings-per-month role – someone with no future.
The team could always scrap Sonny and bring up another hitter; but if they haven’t entertained that idea yet, I’d imagine it’s because they don’t like it.
I like pie
I would be in favor of scrapping Sonny for a hitter but
McGee would be a good addition because I cringe every time Ramos comes in the game.
I honestly don't care who we bring up for Sonny -- I just don't see the point in carrying him any longer.
Position player, reliever, whatever.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
We've had some crazy late inning bad matchups due to lack of pinch-hitting depth
I’d kill for a RH 1B option on the team; I can’t remember Kotch’s last day off and him playing everyday for the first time in in 3 seasons and his second half career numbers are below what he’s done in the first half.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Jul 7, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You forgot to log back in to your BenZorbist account
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
I'm all for selling high on Kotch
Eventually Kotch is going to have a subpar month and we are going to hear Collette tell everyone he told us so even though just about every other single Ray has already had a dreadful month. Not really sure how Kotch found his way into this subthread
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
ramedy said he would like another hitter instead of Sonny
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
Welol done Steve-O. I say this all the time
Obviously winning and staying within shouting distance of the playoffs keeps us focused. But this team lacks an exciting player (s) and when i see many time two sub Mendoza line hitters in there i want ti puke
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I hope you are not a Twins fan
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I figured this was ghostwritten
The caller said the boy, after removing the bulb from its socket, left the building and threw the bulb on the ground. When the bulb broke, the caller said the boy screamed "ooooown u poop"
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jul 7, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Brignac is the obvious choice to go down.
With Damon probably out for the Yankee series, we’re playing with a deck of 23, and with Sonny make that 22
Call up Jennings for Brignac and McGee for Sonny
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
what is the reluctance to send him down? Many players well above Brignac's level have had to go down to learn a skill
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
find me three as shitty as Brignac in the last 10 years, and for a career not one season
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
not as starters really. the issue i have with sending him down is elliot johnson isnt a good option.
you really need to look at Sean Rod more carefully there as an every day SS
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
SRod is a platoon player...
what has he done at the MLB level to make you think other wise
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Only a year and a half away from Beckham
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Has his D gotten better?
I was still under the impression he’d be moved off of SS.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
Scouts are saying he can stick at SS...
at least that’s what been posted around here the last week
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
yes.
people who whined about his defense watched him once last year. they are fucking assholes.
@ptSuttery
Hah. Gotcha.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
TJ and Briggy can't hit either and once in a while Sean Rod catches one, like his 3 HR v RHP
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
when S-Rod comes to the plate i watch--when Briggy does i go to the john--nuff said?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
bottom line glassman--if Briggy sits this whole series why keep him up?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
He has 18 career homeruns
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Gillis do yourself a favor and shorten that sig line--it's way annoying
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
But I like it...
how would that be doing myself a favor?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
My sig is the Ben Roethlisberger of sigs
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
Hrm, interesting.
But I guess the question is, what does he need to learn? Not really plate discipline as: “hit major league pitching.”
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like there are still some things he can work out in AAA.
But I’m not gung-ho about sending him down.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
You're talking about setting him back from MLB time even further, though.
Are we just going to sit on him in Durham till he’s 27? He has nothing to learn at that level.
@ptSuttery
he needs to swing the bat every day, and work with a hitting instructor
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I'm pretty sure he does that now
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That's an anecdotal observation.
I hate it when people say a player has nothing to learn. All players have something to learn! Yeah, MLB pitching is different from AAA, but not so different that you cannot work on something (unless that something is hitting Cliff Lee’s curve).
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Unless you're speaking from experience here,
I believe you’re speaking out of your ass.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
Can it be a little of both?
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Its the internet.
Of course it can.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
Well that's what I choose then.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Yeah, gotta agree here.
I’m sure there are things he could work on there. But with the limited SS options the Rays have now, my guess is they just hope he can work on them in the majors too.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm in this camp as well
even though it really weakens the SS position defensively. Maybe he’s got a mechanical or recognition issue he can work on or maybe he goes down and gains confidence by hitting well for awhile.
Either way either he or EJ needs to go.
He's just a bad hitter.
Weak plate discipline, weak contact skills. When he does make contact, he hits the shit out of it. I don’t think half a year in Durham is going to resolve those problems.
@ptSuttery
then the question is
would one of the other .220 hitters be a better option.
I think it goes back to Steve’s original point. DO.SOMETHING.
THIS
I’m hoping the Rays take the SF Giants approach at the trading deadline. Don’t need top piece, but complementary pieces that can still be upgrades. I’d love to see the Rays add Rafael Furcal and Ryan Ludwick, who I think could be this year’s Cody Ross.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Being a Ludwick owner, I'd love to see him get out of Petco.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Just trying to add power wherever possible
Guyer could very easily step up and do this, but I’m operating under the assumption BJ is traded and Jennings is called up to CF, and Ludwick mans LF, with Guyer only a call-up away.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be a big fan of aFurcal deal BUT
where does that leave Briggy? The org seems to be behind him so that to me means a trade for a SS isn’t likely.
Org is not behind him
Maddon has already said he’s got to earn chances to get AB at this point. They still want him to be their guy, but if trade for Furcal, Brignac gets sent to AAA.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You are talking about EJ right
because I wouldn’t say Reid its the shit our of it when he makes contact
Ok the guy has 3 extra base hits
are you serious? His hits are weak ground balls that don’t make it to the infielders
Really?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I was referring to you replying to him...
and then replying AGAIN to say that you are not taking the bait
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
"When Reid hits the ball he hits it hard"
dinker that doesn’t even make it to 3rd baseman is only hit
I haven't missed a full game all season.
MLB.tv FTW!
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
THIS
best thing ever. During the Rays commercial before the Damon at 1B debacle, I was able to skip over to see Toronto get hosed on the call at the plate to give Red Sux the win. Lot of anger that night.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm never excited to see Niemann or Davis on the mound either.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
I wonder if the Rays can't decide whether to buy or sell
They are going to be opportunistic with both, but I think they are still realistically asking, even with the call ups, can they catch NY or BOS. I just hope we see Jennings and Cobb and McGee after the All-Star break.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
smart clubs add pieces for the future at the deadline
bring me derek norris!
Next 11 vs Sox/Yanks, sure that will be a big indicator after that stretch.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Not confident at all.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
Yanks pitching isn't that scary, sawks have multiple starters on the DL
If Price pitches like an ace they might have a chance. If he’s at 93 mph and like in minny they are sunk.
I think they can split w/ NYY but that really doesn’t help them.
what could the Rays think Jennings has to work on?
I’m trying to understand why he hasn’t been called up.
@ptSuttery
i'm not sure anyone knows why he isn't here
to me, the “we’re waiting to hand him CF” explanation is stupid. Find out of he can hit now so if you decide to contend in 12 you know what you have.
I also think I’d want a look at Lobs/Chirinos and see how Ashley does at AAA
Beats the hell outta me.
Am I the only one who finds speculating on what a player has to work on/is working on incredibly annoying?
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
This organization has been very frustrating in how they handle development this year
There isn’t really one clear reason as to why something has or hasn’t happened. All I care about is Jennings, Guyer, McGee, and Cobb are called up this season, and Moore moves up to AAA.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
help me out on this
one of the reasons I began posting in stead of trolling was because I felt there is a ton of good info around here and I’m not great with the “new” stats.
Is this statistically based or eyeball based. Eyeball based I agree but as short a time ago as last year Niemann was effective. Do the trends tell a different story? I’m just trying to be open-minded because the fan in me wants Niemann sent to siberia but I want to be objective.
his fip/xfip has always been well below his era.
he doesnt strike guys out and he gives up a ton of fly balls. hes also a huge injury question mark. thats a recipe for disaster.
Solid point.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
If ESPN MLB Rumors has the possibility that Bruce Chen could be a trade candidate
for the back end of a rotation, then the Rays can try to search for a sucker as well.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Drop sonny, move Niemann to the pen?
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
I don't see the point in moving the guys to the pen. It totally kills them...
covers their mouths with duct tape and toss them in the trunk like some rotten pizza.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sonny is a failed starter rotting in the pen.
IMO, Niemann is on the same track.
Why not just get the move over with?
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
We destroyed Sonny's value in the pen...
I’d rather spin Niemms for 50 cents on the dollar. OH SHIT. NEW COMMENT FROM SCMONSTA!
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
.
http://www.draysbay.com/2011/7/7/2263945/desmond-jennings-rays-roster-boring#71418971
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Part of reason why Rays are not as exciting, is they are not able to manufacture runs the way they did last year
CC and his 50 SB are gone. And it isn’t like the Rays are a power team either. This offense does not have an identity. This is why the Rays should trade for Furcal and call up Jennings. And, keep Upton.
Furcal
Damon
Longoria
Joyce
Zobrist
Upton
Kotchman
Jaso/Shitpack
Jennings
Much more speed and dynamic to this team. I think these two moves alone would make the team more exciting to watch.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions
We really needed a career year out of Longoria and for various reasons, he's failed
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
is BJ's year really a surprise?
I don’t think anyone thought Brignac would be this bad, and i really thought Shop and Jaso would be a very good platoon
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
i dont think it's a surprise, but i was just pointing to other players who could have broken out and havent.
since 2007, this is bjs second worst year offensively.
failed?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
was he not out a month injured? has he been prone to extended slumps?
go ahead deny those things haven’t happened
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
good but not long enough (injury) and not careeresque as was MY POST--you %^&%
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
A heart attack is what Longo has given the fans at the Trop this season.
How do you explain that or why that his poor numbers there haven’t had an effect on the entire offense at home?
If we need a Pujols type year out of Longo every year then...
maybe Friedman isn’t that great of a GM
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
What has Longo failed at?
Not getting injured?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
babip of .240
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
hopefully it turns around.
his Iso is good, and his BB%/K% are good, so hopefully it is just a matter of luck. also sf1 said this " for various reasons, he’s failed." luck is a various reason.
SF1's expectations are entirely out whack...
has Longo failed the team? Or has it been the lack of production from other positions?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
"We needed..."
I assume Mr Sternfan was using the Royal We while referring to the team. I’m sure that he personally gains no tangible advantage in life from El Pingo’s performance…or maybe he does.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
What?
He’s essentially saying that everything else is going fine except for Longo be cause he got hurt and isn’t going to WAR 9+? That’s what you are defending.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
I have said that Longo has been part of the offensive struggles that this whole team has been through.
Look, Longo is the best player on this team but he has not been immune to under performing over long stretches this season. While you can look at his numbers(including BABIP) in total and saying he is doing well enough and projects to a 5.4 WAR, how many games has he had 0’fers, had and looked terrible at so many AB’s and failed to deliver in key situations over the entire season to this point? No one can deny that(and look back at all the GDT;s to verify). But he has been hot the last two weeks and hopefully he is back on track.
But his total numbers are bumped by those last 14 games. Overall, he has hit 11 HR’s and had 41 RBI’s but 6 of those HR’s and 22 of those RBI’s have come in that span. That is outperforming even himself by those standards. And in those games the Rays are only 8-6. And the 5 games he played in at home over that stretch, he is only 3-18 with 2 RBI’s(with the walk off HR included). His woes at the Trop, as well as the entire team cannot be debated.
I have argued that Longoria has been part of the offensive problem throughout the entire course of this season and much has to do with those around him underperforming. Injury or bad luck included, he has been a streaky hitter(and defender) this season and he would probably be the first to admit that, I’m sure.
Like I said though, hopefully he is ready to continue to play well and bring his game up to the consistent level fans expect from him. But so to does the rest of the team, especially those hitting around him in the order.
Keep using your eyes
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
And start using yours more.
I am always trying to add advanced numbers(and I admit I’m still learning) to explain my points and you continue to use those that satisfy your position(all be it seems that WAR and BABIP are you soup de’jour). But even the most ardent saber guys here cannot dispute or even explain the pathetic numbers that the entire team, including Longo, are putting up at home. I, and many others here, have nothing but our eyes to verify what we see on the field(especially at home) at times. Why do you not see it or better yet, explain it with your numbers
That BABIP of .209 at home seems sustainable
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
As is the .257 for the entire team?
Let me get out my rabbit’s feet(not foot) than. The Rays are saved.
Well if average BABIP is .300...
a weak hitting team like the Rays could be expected to perform at 86% of that. An elite hitter like Evan with a career .312 BABIP at home is probably not going to keep hitting with a BABIP more than 100 points below his career average.
Also it appears that he is seeing less strikes at home, and when he has he is hitting inordinately higher numbers of those for groundballs.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
"A weak hitting team like the Rays"...
…and that is my point. If they were a good hitting team, their BABIP would be expected to go up over the second half. But not being a good hitting team there may be a significant chance that they may not even be able to achieve 86 %. It may just not be their year to collectively just be an average hitting team.
And part of the reason that Longoria is not seeing as many strikes is because the opposing team knows they don’t have to throw him many. Why? Because of the hitters around him in the line-up and how poorly they are doing at home. Would you? Which is why I maintain that the sum of the parts do add up to the whole in this case. Ergo…various reasons. It may be difficult for even Longoria, an elite hitter, to approach his home mark of .312 becaus eof the strugglesof his teammates.
That’s all I’m suggesting
And thank you for having an intelligent debate on the issue rather than yelling in caps while expressing your point of view as being the only one and disparaging all others.
Some of us here, have the ability to respond, intelligently back if given the opportunity.
Agreed. Most poor hitting teams still have a BABIP in the .280's over a season.
But a team like the Padres in 2009 had a team BABIP of .259 at Petco. And that with Adrian Gonzalez who was stymied by Petco. And the Blue Jays last year were at .265 at home(although they had a slugging % of .483 at home).
It is possible that a team just gets so psyched out in their own park(as possibly they do on the road) that it snowballs to such an extent that they can’t get out of their own way.
I wonder how much the magicianship of Kotch...
offsets the unluckiness of Brignac, Jaso, Shoppach, and Longo.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
mods could stop feeding the SF1 troll
any time now
there's some decent risk involved with furcal.
he’s 33, he’s played poorly, his contract is a little expensive..
@ptSuttery
sometimes there is too much risk
certainly the potential upgrade over brignac and johnson is substantial
@ptSuttery
Eat up that life advice from sterny. You eat it up good.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
eh, that's why the cost will be down
LA is in need of a salary dump, and still very limited risk. Furcal is FA at season’s end.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
then you can always go back to Brignac
Furcal’s upside is worth the risk
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Dee Gordon?
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 7, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Hu?
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
he 12mil option vests at 600AB so he won't get that
so his salary isn’t too crazy. I’m not sure the rays will add significant salary unless playoff comes in to offset it.
But their payroll is low enough now to take on some salary
and try for playoffs, and if it doesn’t work, it shouldn’t affect future years salaries.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The most exciting part of this season has been Maddon's ejections
I have to say that they have definitely not been boring.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
I think we are a fun team at times.
We just need a spark and need to make a couple of minor moves.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jul 7, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
consistency would help
mostly outbust type performance. Even shields/price have had great stretches and bad stretches. It would be nice if we’d see more day-to-day performances from Joyce/Longo etc.
We just don’t know what we are going to see on a nightly basis. Also, as was posted a few days ago, when they struggle they are maddening.
Alternate reason that might explain why so many Rays fans are bored
Rays have played 7 total games vs. BOS and NYY. Not to besmirch the AL Central’s good name – but if we’re going to worry about the team seemingly not having any direction, it’s hard to orient ourselves when the Rays haven’t played many games against the teams with the most influence over their playoff chances.
Whether the team is boring or not, it’s hard to get excited about 8 games against the White Sox.
I like pie
Davis DL
Gomes up.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
Vin, you beat joey... impressive.
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
It was luck.
I admit it.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
by Vin on Jul 7, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
was there any indication Wade was hurt
after the game?
Wade Davis to the DL, Gomes has been called up
Cobb better take that spot and not friggin Sonny
Under construction
Look how late you are.
I'll make out with a guy if he knocks it in
by Jason Collette on Jun 11, 2011 9:00 PM CDT
(Kotchman knocked it in)
by Vin on Jul 7, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
excited to see Gomes again
when this team actually replaces Ramos/Sonny with Gomes/McGee, I think we can have a pretty good bullpen. But if sonny makes one more god damn start…
by raysfaninminnesota on Jul 7, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess we can't complain as Rays fans.
We are the 3rd best team in the AL, have a great future in our farm system, and we are complaining about being boring.
plus the team is really young
amazing when you think about the age of the roster.
How can anyone like brignac?
The guy is a goofball and can’t hit for shit.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
Brignac is a premium defensive SS
with a career .725 OPS in the majors entering this year, and he was once considered an upper-echelon hitting prospect for a middle infielder. People dumping on him now are going to look almost as stupid as SF1’s “release Yields!” campaign from last year.
(Well, almost.)
I'm dumping on him
He has been awful.
In no way am I saying release him. He is still valuable, but jesus Sonny literally could do better at the plate.
I agree, his ABs are frustrating
Not sure what to do about it. I don’t see the organization sacrificing their best defensive player at the most important defensive position just for the marginal upgrade at the plate that Johnson or Sean Rodriguez (vs. righties). There isn’t really a sensible upgrade available via trade — Reyes just got hurt and was going to command top prospects anyway, and the Orioles are infuriatingly stupid to trade with even if they do make J.J. Hardy available (I suspect they’ll give him 5 years and $65MM instead).
What would you do?
Do what they have been doing
Give EJ more of the PT. Play Briggy in favorable matchups until he hopefully starts hitting
There is plenty reason for concern that leave Briggy floating somwhere between the brutal pessimism of ItaliaNole and your optimism
Briggy now has a career OPS of .619. The .725 was the result of carefully handpicked matchups. He also now features a negative UZR in just over 1000 innings with the largest chunk being this year’s slightly negative number.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
eyetest makes me question the uzr numbers. the thing is briggy is somewhere between a good utility infielder and a decent-to-good big league shortstop.
thats valuable. especially when its practically free.
Not sure what's up with UZR
I mean, do you honestly think Brignac (-1.7 UZR/150) has been about as bad as Derek Jeter (-2.0) this year? Or that J.J. Hardy (an astonishing -5.3 UZR/150!) is one of the worst shortstops in baseball?
Defensive metrics have a long way to go imo
I feel like they devalue the accuracy of WAR as well.
The eye test coupled with the metrics is still the best way to evaluate d imo
I don't think Briggy is below-average
UZR isn’t the end all be all of defense, but he has flopped beyond anyone’s worst case scenario this year. I’ll wait till the metrics shine a little more in his favor before declaring him an all glove option like Alcides Escobar.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Why?
He’s never going to hit in the majors as long as he has that damn uppercut swing. His mentality at the plate comes off as a guy who thinks he’s a power hitter, but he’s not. I don’t have any faith in the kid to correct his swing and get it on a flatter plain b/c that’s how he’s swung his whole life. He needs A LOT of work to get the muscle memory down and should be doing that in Durham.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
I don't disagree with much of this article
But it’s hard to imagine DJ coming up right now and doing better than Ruggiano’s .284/.308/.486 line right out of the gate (particularly since Jennings has an .819 OPS at AAA).
Similarly, I think it makes sense to give Jose Lobaton a chance — but Shoppach has an .881 OPS (!) over the last 30 days. No way Lobaton is an improvement.
I can’t explain Andy Sonnanstine, obviously.
yes.
Yeah, I don't see Badancil turning out well.
@dobbertweets
by blackraven on Jun 27, 2011 5:08 PM PDT
I really like this post
Next time someone complains that this site is filled with sychophants who think Friedman can do no wrong, please link this.
I really like this post and agree with most of it except 1 thing
why in the hell is everyone so high on Rodriguez. I’m not saying he sucks, but dude shouldn’t be playing ever against RHP and definitely not be an everyday SS. Dude reminds me of myself playing The Show, he goes up there swings as hard as he can on the first pitch, sometimes he gets lucky and it finds a gap, most of the time he pops it up or grounds out, occasionally his misses and gets a 2nd pitch, of which he repeats the swing as hard as you can approach from the 1st pitch, and on the very rare case the pitcher makes a mistakes he crushes it over the fence and everyone is ooooohhh ahhhhh so shiny, power. If anyone should go down to AAA and work on his approach it is Rodriguez, because he actually has a nice swing and could develop into a decent hitter (along with getting everyday work at SS to improve defense) but his offensive approach is awful.
I think it should be a platoon
I’m not saying Rodriguez isn’t the most talented of the 3 (Rod, Briggy, Helliot) but I think they all shit the bed this year and I’d rather have Rodriguez work on his plate disciple and approach while working on his defense as well in AAA so that he can hopefully be the everyday SS next season. If Rodriguez is as talented a defender as people say he is, give him 2 months (till September call-ups) to work on his defense everyday at SS and he should become a pretty decent SS. Unless Reid can magically learn how to hit at least badly, instead of really badly. I’m on board for Rodriguez as the SS of the near future.
8% walk rate?
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Focus on what he can do
1.000 OPS vs. lefties, strong arm, can play 6 positions including shortstop. That’s tremendous value even if he’s never an everyday player.
under 6 % since the start of June
I know it doesn’t make this years Rays team any more exciting but you talked about being able to see a plan, doesn’t getting him everyday time at SS so that hopefully he can take that position over in 2012 sound like a better plan than reaching into a hat and picking who will start at SS everyday in the majors.
If the 2012 SS is in the Rays organization and his name isn't Reid Brignac...
I would be quite surprised
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
I would love to see Brignac work out
but if Rodriguez can develop his defense like some on here seem to think, and he can hit why wouldn’t he be the guy?
because he can't hit RHP...
and don’t mistake that as an argument for Brignac. I imagine next year’s SS is currently playing for someone else
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
Do you think the Rays should try to go ahead and add someone at the deadline
maybe try to move for a guy like Luis Valbuena from the Indians?
Trevor Plouffe is having maybe a breakout season finally in AAA for the Twins
I wonder if they will be interested in moving him?
Watched him get a couple of hits the other day off of Boston up and comer Kyle Weiland then he hit two homers the next day
Nothing special, but the bat is probably average at a minimum
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
And actually reading this thread, Plouffe is now SS
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
everything being said I think/hope this team looks a lot different in the next month
hopefully Gomes up is just the first step, when the rotation spot is up hopefully Sonny is DFA (unless someone wants to trade for him) bring up Cobb, hopefully by the time Davis is ready, Niemann can be traded.
Another possibility might be Cesar Itzturis of the Orioles.
If he shows he is healthy after elbow surgery(expected back shortly) he may be available, especially if they O’s try to re-sign Hardy. He’s only owed less than 1/2 million for the remainder of the season, has experience, is a good defensive SS, and is an average hitter. Maybe he plays well down the stretch and stabilizes the position.. He won’t cost much to acquire him and if he works out, maybe the rays can re-sign him for next year and give time for a guy like Lee(or Beckham)to continue to develop another year.
Izturis is a small upgrade at defense for an even worse bat, I know you may find that hard to believe, but Brignac is not as bad as his line as been
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
Steve, you honestly think that Jennings bat helps the team at all this year? He rode a nice hot streak early in the season and has shown flashes, but I doubt he adds much to our offense this year
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
No, but that's not really the point.
http://www.draysbay.com/2011/7/7/2263945/desmond-jennings-rays-roster-boring#71417112
I don’t see him being a large dropoff from anything we’re getting, though.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously. -- @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jul 7, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe AF wants to avoid the Fernando Martinez syndrome
Can’t miss guy, slowed by injuries at times, and always wanting to be brought up by the fans. But he struggled in the several times he was recalled, never got consistent PT, lost confidence, never could stay healthy for an entire season and began dropping off the radar.
Above all else, AF wants to bring him up when he’s ready to stay up…and the Rays are ready to give him a full shot.
So you want to displace something that seems to be working because he won't be a large dropoff? That seems silly at best and utter bullshit at worst.
I’d feel different if Jennings was pounding down the door, but it’s not like he’s going crazy in AAA.
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
He rode a nice hot streak early in the season and has shown flashes, but I doubt he adds much to our offense this year
Huh? wOBA by month: .351, .369, .331, .413. He’s been above-average every month and quite above in all but one. Why the hell are you so down on him?
HE IS BLACK?
nevermind, don’t want him
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
This thread is 4x as long as it needs to be thanks to Gilliss's ridiculous sig
DO SOMETHIN
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
Also, tell the interpretor for Sandy Kazmir, to tell Kazmir, to learn English.
Boom. Outta Here.
Hey Talbot,
Any idiot can win a ball game, by hurting the player on a team he’s pitching against.
To bad, that the American League has the D. H. rule, caus I’d love to see you and that spic, who hit Mark Teixeira in the back, come to the plate to hit.
I know, that the balls thrown at the Yankees best hitters, is done to put them out of action. However, it didn’t work. The Yankees still kicked ass.
Also, tell the interpretor for Fausto Carmona, to tell Carmona, to learn English.
A die hard Yankee fan!
Doris Festante
That's not how Doris Festante spells it...
try and keep up
by Ryan Gilliss on Jul 8, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Than twitter her to learn how to spell correctly.
If you’re going to paraphrase her.
You should see me right now ma focker, I could barely kick your fat ass
@SandyKazmir
Yes I've only been a fan since 2009.
by blackraven on May 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT
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