Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Ben Zobrist Is Rodney Dangerfield's Nephew


He gets no respect, I tell ya, no respect. Someone raised a glass to Zobrist on his birthday back in May as "the best baseball player in the room," and a sportswriter asked when Derek Jeter arrived. Rumor has it that in 2006, Tim Purpura agreed to trade Mitch Talbot to the Devil Rays for Aubrey Huff but only on the condition Andrew Friedman accepted Zobrist in the trade. This season, the MVP discussions are taking place on the airwaves and the series of tubes in the Interwebs, yet the player that is arguably the Most Valuable Player of the Rays roster can draw nothing more than an "honorable mention" in discussions.

Yes, I am one of those dunderheads that pay attention to down-balloting in these races only because it always comes up when these players come up for Hall of Fame consideration. Someone will invariably say Jim Thome only finished higher than 5th in the MVP balloting once in his entire career while overlooking the writers that voted him SEVENTH the season he lead the league in OPS and finished just 0.1 win behind Alex Rodriguez in bWAR. No, Ben Zobrist is not going into the Hall of Fame, but I dislike the subjective process that the balloting remains for many people. Keith Law and Will Carroll caught a lot of flak for their ballots in 2009, but at least they had an objective process since the BBWWA does not set any kind of firm guidelines out there. The lack of leadership by the BBWWA on this matter leads to comments like this from SI's Jon Heyman:

 to me most valuable in the league means winning. its not of great value to lose

Star-divide

@FuquaTwitter retorted that comment best on Twitter today with this wonderful tweet:

Bautista not winning AL MVP because of the team he plays on is like blaming a child for being born into poverty, which America is great at.

The award is not called Most Valuable Player On a Winning Team Award, it's called the Most Valuable Player award. My angst today comes from Heyman's piece on the post-season awards today. I loved the fact he had Alex Avila in his top ten because the kid absolutely deserves that kind of attention for his amazing season, but two particular parts of his MVP ballot bugged me - Michael Young 7th and David Ortiz 10th - since both have played more than 60 games in the DH role this season. Nevermind the fact that Zobrist has a higher wOBA than Young this season; Zobrist simply got an honorable mention in the article. 

It is not like we do not have metrics out there that can value a player, even if those metrics go about it differently. One of my employers, Baseball Prospectus, uses Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP), FanGraphs has their own version of WAR (fWAR) and Baseball-Reference has theirs as well (bWAR). Those metrics cannot measure the intangible factors such as how a guy's bat or arm made the rest of the team better, but they do an excellent job of showing a player's statistical value on an even playing field. It cannot judge how Justin Verlander or James Shields working deep into nearly every game saves the bullpen for other games, but it can show us how much their statistical contributions are against their peers. Since WARP, fWAR, and bWAR all have their own methods for constructing their final value, I thought it would be helpful to show an average of all three scores in examining the best players in the American League.

Since I am a company man, I took the top 32 players from Baseball Prospectus' WARP report for the season and found the fWAR and bWAR values for those players on FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference and averaged them out to get an aWAR (average WAR) score for each player. The results:

Almvp_medium

Not only is Zobrist in the top ten here, all three of his value metric totals are also in the top ten. Simply put, Ben Zobrist is more than just an honorable mention in the American League Most Valuable Player Discussion, he should be a real player in the top ten discussion. That said, I am going to go out on a limb and say he will finish lower in the final standings than Jose Valverde if the Tigers win the American League Central and that may not be his only slight at the hands of a closer this post-season.

Comment 28 comments  |  2 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

great idea for the suggestion box

Thanks!

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Aug 29, 2011 5:27 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

2 things

He was left off Heyman’s piece and when I mentioned him as belonging in the discussion to Ferrin and Goldstein, 2 guys I have a TON of respect for, I was dismissed out of hand. Thus, I felt it deserved more attention

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Aug 29, 2011 7:08 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Well that's just retarded. How can you take a man seriously that has an opinion like that?

If you can't say something to someone's face then it's not worthy of being said behind their back.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 30, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, I'm past the point of outrage

It would be nice recognition for the players but any lack of intelligence by the media is a good thing for the org.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Aug 30, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmmm... Upton vs Ellsbury

I wonder where everyone stands now.

I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed

by matthan on Aug 29, 2011 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

or Gardner vs Ellsbury

Remember those talks?

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______

by Jason Collette on Aug 29, 2011 5:26 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

What about marginal value?

For example, buying a shut-down reliever makes very little sense to a team that isn’t in contention, but it could make very good sense for a team that is one or two wins off. In the same way, could one not say that a 7.5 win player has more marginal value (or, one could consider it as a higher leveraged value) on a winning team than a 7.8 win player on a 4th place team?

@staplemaniac

by staplemaniac on Aug 29, 2011 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

To think of it another way

If Curtis Granderson wasn’t blowing the cover off of the ball this year quite as much, the Rays might have passed the Yankees for the playoffs, whereas if Bautista is worth a win less, that doesn’t really effect the outcome of the Blue Jays’ season.

@staplemaniac

by staplemaniac on Aug 29, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

FTFY

If Curtis Granderson wasn’t blowing the cover off of the ball shooting up HGH this year quite as much

by tampa_edski on Aug 29, 2011 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

reply fail

meant to reply to staplemaniac

by tampa_edski on Aug 29, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

MVP Discussion
That said, I am going to go out on a limb and say he will finish lower in the final standings than Jose Valverde if the Tigers win the American League Central and that may not be his only slight at the hands of a closer this post-season.

I’d think that most writers would lodge a vote for Justin Verlander well ahead of Jose Valverde. As a matter of fact, with a few more wins by Verlander, is going to stoke the debate as to whether a pitcher should win the Cy Young Award and the MVP.

So, we’ll hear whether or not Bautista should get votes on a team that didn’t challenge for a playoff spot.

We’ll hear about Granderson/Teixera and who is the more valuable Yankee.

And we’ll counter the Granderson/Teixera discussion with Ellsbury/Pedroia/Gonzalez.

Meanwhile, out west the Jared Weaver for MVP discussion will balance the Verlander midwest discussion.

In the end Ben Zobrist will get very little discussion and garner very little votes. All he can do is go on a Zorilla hot streak and be the face of the Rays as they take down the Yankees for the Wild Card and then his name will begin to pop up in MVP discussion.

by MrNegative1 on Aug 29, 2011 6:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Founded in 2005, DRaysBay is home to, "Progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument."

Please read our Community Guidelines.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Spts-shelton_small
Which Red Sox Fan Are You?
Spts-shelton_small
The Opportunity of the Century
Ryu_small
This one goes out to all the chicken littles
Small
MLB needs to help bring All-Star game to Bay Area
Small
Who's That in My Old Seats?

Recent FanPosts

Untitled4_small
The Rays Should 'Retaliate' By Winning
Whelk_small
Rays 7, Sox 4; Immediate Reactions
Images_small
Post-Game (Over)Reactions here
Small
Proposal: Rays play a series in Durham each year
Ag_-_hector_gomez_-_63_small
Visiting Tampa Bay from Colorado
Images_small
Immediate Reactions: Rays Win, But Likely Lose Another Guy

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Catch For the Ages
Brandon Guyer out for season
Other Side of the Coin: Rodney's Fortune on Called Strikes
Does anyone have any information on Josh Sale? He doubled in a run in his...
Orlando Hudson released
Rays sign Garko to minor league...
Baseball Card Fans...check out my Ebay Auctions
Cameron Seitzer Growing Up Baseball
Longo injury apparently is apparently not good
Hak-Ju Lee, SS, Rays (Double-A Montgomery) Lee had a breakout year in...

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Friends of the Site

DRB Suggestion Box

Drb4_medium

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Slowsky__1__small Steve Slowinski

Images_small Jason Collette

Brad_small BWoodrum

Price_small Erik Hahmann

Analysts

Small td32

Rutg_uakjmedjwh9ndzd4lkll_small Imperialism32

100_1952_small MrNegative1

Steak-with-crown_small CBJones

Whelk_small Whelk

Scaled_php_small mr. maniac

Tampa_theatre_small jcmitchell

Me_small John Gregg

Small SGrauer