Do Trade Rumors Hinder a Player's Ability?
On April 19th there were reports that the Washington Nationals had been scouting Tampa Bay Rays center fielder B.J. Upton. Up to that date, Upton was hitting .250/.350/.423 albeit in a small sample of 60 plate appearances. The decent triple-slash line coupled with his defense and stolen base ability were music to Rays' fan's ears and hopes of a potential 5 WAR season looked to be good.
From April 19th to May 5th Upton's stats took a little hit as he would slump through 65 PAs over that span, hitting .211/.292/.351. Was it news of scouts and trade rumors that put him in a slump or just another small sample size prone to randomness and bad luck on balls in play? His season line dropped to .229/.320/.385 at this point.
With no more rumors swirling Upton would go on to hit .261/.354/.464 over his next 79 PAs through May 30th. But, the next day, rumors came out that the Nationals were willing to overpay for a center fielder. They did not mention the Rays' Upton as a target but the rumors were already out there that Upton was a potential target of theirs.
We have been playing with small samples so far but, please, stay with me.
From May 31st, the date of the latest rumor, until the end of the waiver trade period, Upton's name would surface many times in the rumor mill.
On June 5th the Nationals claimed to have continued interest in Upton.
On June 19th Buster Olney tweeted that the Rays will, in fact, listen to offers on Upton.
On June 24th MLBtraderumors.com indicated that Jayson Stark reported the Rays had scouts on their own players to see if they were ready in case an Upton trade went through.
On June 28th Joel Sherman (from MLBTR) indicated the Nationals were willing to give up Tyler Clippard in an Upton trade.
On July 16th Ken Rosenthal is saying the Rays could be sellers and Upton is likely a piece they would trade.
On July 17th Buster Olney says the Rays "continue to weigh interest in Upton" and he speculates that the Giants would be a good fit.
On July 20th Tim Dierkes of MLBTR says Olney claims that the perception among teams is that the Rays are willing to move Upton.
On July 21st the Braves enter the picture.
On July 23rd Ken Rosenthal flat out says Upton "will be traded. You can trust me on that."
On July 24th Nick Cafadro writes that the "Nationals are considering offering the moon for him."
I think you get the point. A few more similar rumors are reported but August 1st hits and Upton is still in a Rays uniform. The only problem is that rumors still won't die and rivals believe the Rays will place Upton on waivers with the intention of trading him during the waiver period.
The rumors didn't lie and Upton was claimed on waivers on August 26th according to Marc Topkin but the deadline to deal him passed on August 29th with no deal in place.
Over that time dating back to May 31st and ending when it was finally guaranteed that Upton would not be traded, Upton looked like the 38 year old Mike Cameron of this year, hitting a pathetic .213/.291/.379 in 310 PAs. In case you were wondering, Cameron hit .203/.285/.359 in 269 PAs this season.
Now that the rumors were finally gone Upton could concentrate on being a Ray and helping his own arbitration cause this offseason. Since August 30th Upton has hit a robust .333/.446/.611 in 65 PAs and has been a driving force in the Rays push for the playoffs.
We sometimes like to think that baseball players are machines, that they are not hindered by the normal distractions that us common folk often worry about. I am terribly guilty of this but after looking at the dates of the rumors and how Upton performs during rumors and during times of certainty I cannot help but believe, at least in the case of Upton, that trade rumors do hinder one's ability on the field.
If those were dates and numbers weren't enough to convince you and you want a bigger sample size then take a quick look at Upton's career monthly splits. July is by far the month with the most rumors and it is Upton's worst performing month in his career.
Maybe rumors don't affect certain players but I think they affect Upton and the Rays need to offer him certainty this offseason or trade him because I don't think Rays' fans can take another 300+ plate appearance slump while he is making $7M or more next season.
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How about trading a starting pitcher in late August when you're 4 out of WC?
That probably would be enough to send a team into a spiral.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
What if that player sucked?
Would you keep him still?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
it's been 2 years.....give it up already
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Sep 16, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It's tough when I still have a #19 bobblehead staring at me...
I wonder how that season might of turned out. I’m glad AF had the cajones to keep Bossman this year.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
Yeah they would've lost by 10G
And we’d have to trade Crawford because Kazmir would’ve eaten up his salary
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh? That's the new narrative..
Kazmir’s salary would’ve eaten up CC money? I’ve heard that money was used for plenty of players.. CC was never one of them.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
Moving Kazmir saved 25M
Someone would’ve had to have been cut loose instead
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Ignoring the fact that baseball *still* doesn't have a salary cap...
I don’t remember Kazmir making $25 million in 2009. I’ve never suggested that the Rays keep Kazmir for 2010. I just say they waived the white flag on a team still chasing the WC… leading to the horrible 14 game losing streak. Psychologically, the 2009 Rays folded it after Kaz was traded.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
Yeah it had nothing to do with that fact that the Rays were blowing every lead possible before his trade
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Davis pitched as well as Kazmir did down that final stretch
Besides, if Kazmir’s contract was on the books last year, MFIKY never pitches here
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Sep 16, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
How Davis pitched has never been my point...
I’ve always maintained that the trade damaged the Psyche of the team. They didn’t feel management had faith in them any more.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
a lot professional athletes are where they are because they don't let things bother them
they aren’t in the big leagues simply on ability.
And yet here we are discussing Bossman's production
before and after trade rumors.
And I bet it doesn’t bother #MagicofKotch. That dude has stones.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
you're talking about an entire team losing their mental capacity to win baseball games based on one person being traded
that is slightly different than one player supposedly playing badly because of trade rumors
so i guess none of them play for the rays
got it
why wouldnt they have given up this season already then?
Maybe because they didn't trade anyone...
My contention has always been that Kazmir’s departure spoke volumes to the clubhouse. By all accounts, he was a leader… and their top pitcher for the previous couple of years. The guys in the locker room had no reason to believe he had “lost it”
This year, the Rays chose not to trade anyone at the deadline. Now, the team is coming together “major league” style.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
And in retrospect...
I am glad the MFIKY pitched for the Rays, even if it meant raising the white flag in 2009. Again, I’m not saying it was a bad trade. I just maintain the timing had an undintended consequence to team moral.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
And honestly....
Did you think I was going to let this discussion go w/o mentioning the white flag of August 2009?
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
Is your avatar of a current Yankee?
Shame on you.
No one cares what you think, all you ever answer with is 'meh.' Go back to your pokemen
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 4:40 PM EST
Don't mock MFIKY. He's done his part by staying out of games between the
Rays & Yankees.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
Yeah, by staying on the 60 day DL
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
And that's why you're not a GM
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Where did I act like a GM in this thread?
Again, I have no problem with the Kaz trade in retrospect. But to pretend that it wasn’t the white flag to the 2009 season is disengenuous .
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
Your inability to understand like anything beyond SPT-logic
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not very nice. Just because I don't agree
with the groupthink that’s used around doesn’t mean I don’t understand your logic. I just choose to disagree with it. But, if it’s name calling you’ve moved to… than I accept your surrender.
RaysRev.com or m_weber on twitter
You're applying Cause & Effect where it does not belong
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You need to learn to accept defeat.
Someone has to kick the weak & pathetic when they're down
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 PM PD
by internet commenter on Sep 16, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Not my fault you failed HS
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You're making yourself look foolish, my friend.
Someone has to kick the weak & pathetic when they're down
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 PM PD
by internet commenter on Sep 16, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Get an education before you try to debate me
I know its foreign concept to southerners liek yourself
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This is too easy to be fun.
Someone has to kick the weak & pathetic when they're down
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 PM PD
by internet commenter on Sep 16, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're gonna continue to be this stupid
Then I’m done with you-step out of line & I’ll be down on you like your sister.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see that happening.
Someone has to kick the weak & pathetic when they're down
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 PM PD
by internet commenter on Sep 16, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Is yours of a current National?
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Sep 16, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell yeah it is.
At least Jonny didn’t walk away for ridiculous contract for a rival team. He was our enforcer, man. He cared.
No one cares what you think, all you ever answer with is 'meh.' Go back to your pokemen
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jan 17, 2011 4:40 PM EST
Many here suggest trading BJ and using the money to upgrade
DH/1B and the pen. Well first off it isn’t that much to do all that with and just where are you getting what BJ gave you this year, 20 HR, 20 doubles, 20 steals and outstanding CF play?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Some from Guyer, some from the other upgrades made with the reallocated money
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
It's not just $7M from Upton but around $6M saved from Damon and Kotch as well.
$13M and Jennings taking over in CF are pretty good for our front office to work with.
This type of narrative also backs Kotch's supporters who argue that if you take out his #'s post mid-season trades he looks like a much better hitter
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
shouldnt he be back to bending the world over now that the trade season is over?
instead he just got worse
6 of his 10 HRs this year have come post-deadline despite accounting for 1/3 of his games
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
And for all the criticism he has gotten over past 30 days
he still has yet to post a month’s wRC+ below average
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
He has an 84 wRC+ right now over the past 30 days
Jaso is at 105
Rodriguez is at 107
Just sayin’
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Sep 16, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Carlos Pena's wRC+ over last 30 days
159
:( Why must his agent be Scott Boras
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
His wOBA is up to .360 too
And that’s with his .016 ISO in April
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing in our range
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
But if we can get Pena back on a deal that's reasonable, I'm all for it
But if he got 10M for last year, he’ll get like 2/25 nor next time
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Time for the glue factory
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
thats why its funny
transference
"Come at me you scrawny red-dot indian motherfucker." DPIR :The Story
What?!
Since he was placed on waivers and no trade was made, thus keeping him in a Rays uni guaranteed, he has hit .333/.446/.611 in 65 PAs.
i was totally talking about upton in my post
(i was talking about kotchman)
I understand that argument but this stems from more than one occasion.
The career July line got me looking into it and I was surprised how crazy the dates of rumors and his numbers matched up. He’s mashing since he was placed on waivers and no deal was made. .333/.446/.611 in 65 PAs
I worte a post on how BJ Upton was being fooled by pitch movement.
It ran September 1. Since then, .345/.466/.667. And from my anecdotal watching, he’s been better on fastballs from righties low and away and breaking balls from righties up and in.
Can I take credit for his surge? No. Will I? Absolutely.
by Whelk on Sep 16, 2011 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It was an excellent post.
I don’t thank anyone can fault you for taking 100% credit.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Someone did send that post to Derek Shelton
Foot movement changed right about that time to.
Take all of the credit you want
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a _______
by Jason Collette on Sep 16, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
MLB.com still has the 2008 footage up
Be good to compare BJ in that time vs now.
(His success may be the fact he saw 99% fastballs).
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 16, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you can sufficiently quantify the meaning of a 'rumor' enough
To draw anything meaningful out of it. Especially not in today’s blogosphere where everyone is on the block according to one writer or another. Maybe Upton doesn’t deal well with the All-Star break,
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Sep 16, 2011 3:30 PM EDT reply actions
Interesting point about the All-Star break.
I think, though, that in this case it was pretty evident to BJ that he was on the block. He talked and tweeted about it plenty, and thank people for their twitter support, so I have to think it was on his radar.
And I don’t think he would have felt sure he was staying until he was pulled off wavers.
It was more than just the break.
Started when the first rumor came out in late April then again when the rumors hit in late May. From May 31st to the point where he was pulled back on waivers he was well below replacement level. Since then, though, he’s been lights out.
I do believe that players are not Automatons
And that there are a myriad of factors effecting performance. And that can certainly account for what we see here with BJ. I don’t doubt that the trade rumors have effecting his performance I guess my issue is attempting to say to what extent it was the rumors, and to what extent it was other factors. It seems like an attempt to quantify that which cannot be quantified.
by Desmond Jennings Bryan on Sep 16, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I will admit that I am trying to quantify the unquantifiable. It's what we do. It's fun.
Some of it has to be bad luck but there definitely is evidence the rumors effect him.
I mentioned B J
Having a hard time with the trade talk ,and was dismissed as a pop psycholigist,by stat boy Rj.
Also would like to add,, Mr Kotchman is hitting cleanup tonight.
Joe, Sterney and Landlord Gettin it done.
True genius is never appreciated in its time, Mr. Landlord.
Someone has to kick the weak & pathetic when they're down
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 PM PD
by internet commenter on Sep 16, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
*Mr. Landlord.
Someone has to kick the weak & pathetic when they're down
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 PM PD
by internet commenter on Sep 16, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I am also guilty of dismissing these things right away.
If I didn’t happen to be looking at Upton’s career splits I may never have notice the statistical evidence of this. Some can be chalked up as luck but there is enough evidence to suggest he was affected.
Sunsports is running
a Kotch segment pregame tonight. Hope all you fans watch and enjoy.
Yes
which means RJ Anderson is directly related to BJ’s slump, and the reason we won’t make the playoffs!
www.dhazebay.com
Yes
which means RJ Anderson is directly related to BJ’s slump, and the reason we won’t make the playoffs!
www.dhazebay.com
He's not coming back.
Someone has to kick the weak & pathetic when they're down
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 PM PD
by internet commenter on Sep 16, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions

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