Johnny Damon, Jose Canseco and Rays' Designated Hitters
The chatter about who the Rays' 2012 designated hitter will be has been relentless. Not a day goes by without someone, somewhere writing something about it. How is Vlad Guerrero looking? Does Hideki Matsui have anything left? Hey, Luke Scott's available. Can Eric Chavez stay healthy? It's the same thing rehashed a thousand times. Roger Mooney's column in Friday's Tampa Tribune is no exception. In it, he laments the current state of the DH across the league, mentioning the Rays constant lack of production from the position and adding this line...
The Rays historically have struggled at DH, making Damon (.261, 16 home runs, 73 RBIs, .326 on-base percentage and .418 slugging percent) easily the best DH in franchise history.
In the below image, imagine Mooney (Brian), has just uttered the statement above to Me (Stewie). That was my reaction.
"Easily the best DH in franchise history."
Easily
I like Roger Mooney and this isn't mean to be indicitive of him as a writer but that's simply false.
He’s covered the Rays for their entire existence so surely he remembers the 1999 team. Those teams are easy to forget, I know, but Jose Canseco had one of the greatest seasons in franchise history that year. And he played DH. The sad, depressing, table below shows players from 1998-2011 that played 50 percent of their games at DH with a minimum of 200 plate appearances, sorted by greatest adjusted OPS+.
| Rk | Player | PA | Year | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | CS | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Jose Canseco | 134 | 502 | 1999 | 34 | 95 | 58 | 135 | 3 | 0 | .279 | .369 | .563 | .931 |
| 2 | Jose Canseco | 112 | 264 | 2000 | 9 | 30 | 41 | 65 | 2 | 0 | .257 | .383 | .450 | .832 |
| 3 | Cliff Floyd | 111 | 284 | 2008 | 11 | 39 | 28 | 58 | 1 | 0 | .268 | .349 | .455 | .804 |
| 4 | Johnny Damon | 110 | 647 | 2011 | 16 | 73 | 51 | 92 | 19 | 6 | .261 | .326 | .418 | .743 |
| 5 | Greg Vaughn | 102 | 562 | 2001 | 24 | 82 | 71 | 130 | 11 | 5 | .233 | .333 | .433 | .766 |
| 6 | Ben Grieve | 96 | 205 | 2003 | 4 | 17 | 32 | 41 | 0 | 0 | .230 | .371 | .345 | .716 |
| 7 | Jonny Gomes | 95 | 461 | 2006 | 20 | 59 | 61 | 116 | 1 | 5 | .216 | .325 | .431 | .757 |
| 8 | Greg Norton | 89 | 240 | 2007 | 4 | 23 | 37 | 55 | 1 | 1 | .243 | .358 | .347 | .705 |
| 9 | Paul Sorrento | 85 | 495 | 1998 | 17 | 57 | 54 | 133 | 2 | 3 | .225 | .313 | .405 | .718 |
| 10 | Willy Aybar | 83 | 309 | 2010 | 6 | 43 | 30 | 61 | 0 | 0 | .230 | .309 | .344 | .654 |
| 11 | Pat Burrell | 81 | 476 | 2009 | 14 | 64 | 57 | 119 | 2 | 0 | .221 | .315 | .367 | .682 |
| 12 | Al Martin | 79 | 258 | 2003 | 3 | 26 | 17 | 51 | 2 | 2 | .252 | .306 | .357 | .663 |
| 13 | Greg Vaughn | 62 | 297 | 2002 | 8 | 29 | 41 | 82 | 3 | 2 | .163 | .286 | .315 | .601 |
You can see that Canseco’s 1999 season dwarfs the rather weak competition. He arguably greatest first half in franchise history, hitting 31 home runs with a .982 OPS. Surgery for a herniated disc would cause Canseco to miss a good chunk of the second half -- allowing him to compare himself to a car – and zap all his power, but he still managed a .391 on base percentage in 31 games. You can see Damon ranks fourth on that list. Since he’s only a couple of points behind Floyd and 2000 Canseco I’ll bump him up to second on the greatest DH list due to his advantage in playing time. They may have had a greater OPS+ but the fact that Damon had more plate appearances than them combined has to count for something.
It's easy to overlook Canseco and recognize Damon. They’re nearly polar opposites when it comes to reputation and respect. In terms of :) % Damon is light years ahead of Canseco. But Canseco was better and there’s no argument to be made otherwise.
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That's a sad DH performance list
One ’roider who had a good half-season & a fading Johnny Damon who was half-decent in another, plus old Cliff Floyd.
Another season of Damon in decline isn’t a good answer to the “Who DH’s in 2012” question.
I’m mostly an NL/Rockies fan and I’d like to offer my 2 cents’ worth on one 2012 option: Seth Smith. The dude can flat-out hit … right-handers at least. Since that’s 2/3 of pitchers, that’s 2/3 of a good DH, which would exceed most totals on that list.
I hear Smith is considered redundant with Joyce. I disagree. Smith’s not a very good outfielder. He’s not a total disaster out there, and would do OK on an as-needed basis, but he’d cost too much on defense as an everyday or 2/3-time OF. Not so Joyce, He should be a fulltime RF, perhaps with some platooning with Guyer if Joyce struggles versus lefties.
Smith would be a good 2/3 DH, platooned against lefty starters with Guyer or SRod. And something that many may overlook with Smith, in games he doesn’t start: he’s probably the best pinch-hitter in baseball – .336 avg over 5 seasons. He’s a valuable late-innings weapon, particularly against RH closers.
The Rockies are trying to trade him, having acquired Michael Cuddyer. Their efforts to send him to Atlanta in a Martin Prado deal have fallen through. They need pitching. The Rays have a lot of it and need a DH. There ought to be a match there somewhere.
There's a reason why we've typically referred to that spot here as the Designated (s)Hitter
Power = money and if you don’t spend it, you do what you can. Damon exceeded my expectations last season but I’d personally prefer not to go back there in 2012.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Damon
29 doubles, 7 triples, 16 home runs, and 19 stolen bases.
Not a bad guy to fall back if needed. 52 extra base hits and I don’t see a rapid decline in 2012 from him…do you?
THE QUEST FOR 3000 [singles]!!
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
I like this idea a lot
Smith kills righties, use Canzler as DH against lefties, both can spot start as needed in a variety of positions. Can probably get Smtih at a reasonable price, plus much lower risk than Luke Scott, who has recent shoulder surgery. Sign a Pena or Kotchman for 1b (or trade for a LaRoche/Smoak depending on where Fielder lands) and you’re ready to go..
Ugly home/road splits.
Especially concerning given he plays at Coors.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
It was pretty distinct the previous 2 seasons.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
He must have ruled out juicers
Like the folks who don’t count Bonds as a Hall of Famer or recognize that McGuire broke Maris’ record.
Good question.
Maybe he means McGwire.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
DRIUN
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jan 11, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I don't even remember Al Martin.
Unless he had crazy eyes. Then I remember him.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:27 AM EST reply actions
yep, that's the guy.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
Kinda looks like Deathlok.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe "franchise history" means "post-Sternberg franchise history?"
And to be fair, those ungodly stupid Vince Naimoli-era teams really do seem like an entirely different franchise by comparison.
Remember the 2000 offseason, in which the 69-win Devil Rays forfeited their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round draft picks for the privilege of signing Juan Guzman, Steve Trachsel, and Gerald “Ice” Williams? Yeah, me neither.
The best number of wins.
@RealNolenBailey
by Hatfield on Jan 11, 2012 11:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rays history (3 years)
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
4 years?
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
i don't count 2009 because we didn't make the playoffs
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Boom
At #Rays workout at Trop, those taking ground balls at 1B include. Canzler, S-Rod, Brignac and … Matt Joyce
Brignac is the most surprising to me.
Unless it is common for extra infielders to get reps at 1b.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
probably just so he can move around the diamond, 4th infielder situation that seems to arise a few times a season, etc. etc.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
also
http://twitter.com/ODonnellFox13/statuses/157143674831114241
Matt Joyce getting some work at 1B. Joe Maddon asked him to do it for versatility.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
What other options for DH will come close
to the 52 XBH and 20 SB Damon put up last year?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
The question is, will Damon come close to last year's production?
At his age, his production will fall off a cliff soon.
We Americans are a peculiar people. We are for the underdog, no matter how much of a dog he is. - Happy Chandler
by ThreeRunHomer on Jan 11, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Do you get the impression Damon, based on last year, is due for a big fall off in '12?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
One DRB writer insists that Matt Joyce taking ground balls at 1B is very significant
By this tweet from TBT can we assume Reid Brignac is also now in the mix?
At #Rays workout at Trop, those taking ground balls at 1B include. Canzler, S-Rod, Brignac and … Matt Joyce
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
read more, post less
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
since you seem to reply to nearly every one of my posts, can the same be said for you?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Only if I respond to you with a quote that was already posted 7 minutes prior to my response.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
it's okay
just read more, post less.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Snap out of your alzheimer's moment
This is not 1993.
Just try reading more, posting less.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
How is this a personal attack?
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
and, yes, both of you may stop it
Don’t feed the obvious troll.
Seriously, Brignac would probably fill the bat boy role right now if the team asked him to. When you know you’re on the fringe of remaining with the team, you do whatever the hell they ask you to do. Let him become the emergency catcher if need be. Love the attitude
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
as for taking GB at 1B, we shouldn't make a big deal of it
as i believe you, correct me if i’m wrong, has
Gomes and Dukes in years past also took GBs there and i don’t recall them ever playing the position
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Under Maddon, 30 different players have made an appearance at 1st base
Including Tomas Perez and Joel Guzman
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
That's not so many
For a Maddon lineup
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 11, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Point being, what people were calling "nonsense" is now playing out
Joyce quoted as being asked by Maddon himself to do this to help with flexibility
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
again if i'm wrong in my interpretation, sorry
but it was my feeling you were vying for Joyce as a full time 1B
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
May be me you're thinking about.
But even then, my stance is essentially that it’s an option for the Rays to consider, depending how well they think he can handle the position and how much they think of Guyer. And, I suppose, if they feel more confident in acquiring a young first baseman or outfielder for 2013.
No way they just hand Joyce the starting 1B role to start the year…but if he ends up getting time there this season and proves he can cut it, I could see it happening eventually.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 11, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
That may seem kinda opposed to my post the other day on Guyer/Joyce/Canzler.
My point there was to point out the Rays depth and how they have options at 1B even if they don’t sign anyone else. But that’s different than saying I want to crown Joyce our starting 1Bman right now, everything else be damned.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 11, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I was vying for being open to all options
If a RF FA option presented itself, being open minded enough to move Joyce to 1st rather than paying for a lesser FA option would be a good move. There’s a balance between bat and defense and I think Joyce’s bat would tip the scales in the direction we’d all prefer.
Outside of Pena, I think he’s the best option for the position for the team in the short and long term.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
"Outside of Pena, I think he’s the best option for the position for the team in the short and long term."
Unless they can get someone via trade next offseason. But otherwise, yes, totally agree.
I also think we forget how kinda meh Joyce was in RF at times last year.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 11, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I want C-Pain.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 11, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
that's your opinion
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Psych!!
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jan 11, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
damn, didn't see this. i should read more post less
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
haha
owned
You have been issued a warning.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
owned
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Apology accepted
Matt Joyce getting some work at 1B. Joe Maddon asked him to do it for versatility.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
What is everyone's fascination with Vlad?
Seriously, doesn’t anyone look at a box score anymore?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
I do, and I don't get it.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Name value
He’s 37 going on 50
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Then we should go after Mays/Bonds
Best 2 living players!
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 11, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
old, busted up, can't move, no thanks
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Loving the new stat :) %
Moral Sabermetrics
if you've spent any time around DRB in the Los years you'd know that that metric is nothing new.
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Here's my feeling on Pena
He really wants to come back versus his other options and Friedman knows this. Boras is trying hard to squeeze another team into the picture, you know the unknown one that’s giving him the multi year deal Friedman won’t give
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
There might be another team
I think the Indians might of thought about it but will sign Magic of Kotch in the end.
Pena will be back and I’ll tell you one thing: The :) are so much better than the yoga in the background.
Matt Moore. That is all.
How about just trying 've instead of misusing of every time you post.
I like reading your posts, but at some point, I wish you would learn from your mistakes.
You have been issued a warning.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
i don't even like reading the content, the terrible grammar makes them downright offensive. can we flag these?
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
This doesn't really tell me anything
Scott can play 1B or DH, even a little OF but hopefully only in emergency. Don’t know if this would knock Los or Damon out.
Matt Moore. That is all.
I firmly believe if they truly wanted Damon back, it would have been done already
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions

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