The Rays Tank: The Band Getting Back Together?
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 6:00 AM EST
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PrintIn case you missed it last night, Scott Boras is getting ready to start dealing his cards.
Carlos Pena, Johnny Damon remain possibilities for #Rays, Boras says tinyurl.com/6v5hm7c
— Marc Topkin (@TBTimes_Rays) January 11, 2012
We also know this because he and his client, Ryan Madson, came to terms with the Reds late last night on a one year deal. The exact terms were not discussed, but I am guessing there really was not $7M in the Rays' budget this time around for a closer. Since Boras and his agency are holding most of the free agent cards at this point, we should finally start seeing some kind of movement on the free agent market and potentially the reactionary trade market depending on who does and does not get what they need. We just need that Prince, err, Jack of Clubs to be played.
Other Rays-Related News:
- Rancel reminds us that players have one week to file their arbitration figures meaning Burke Badenhop, J.P. Howell, Jeff Niemann, David Price, and B.J. Upton have some decisions to make with their respective agents. Upton has already been through the process and lost his case in 2010 and chose to agree to a pre-arbitration deal before last season. Upton is one of five players to go before the arbiter under the new ownership, but the scoreboard reads Team 5, Player 0. For a review of what the process is like, see this legacy article at Baseball Prospectus (free).
- Speaking of BP, my colleague Christina Kahrl is not a fan of the Rays re-signing Johnny Damon but she did agree with me on a name that I first proposed back on December 1st.
- Go check out the pitcher comps that @DodgerSims was kind enough to share with us in a fanpost
- Sean Rodriguez has a Twitter account
- RaysProspects has more to say about the 2012 Stone Crabs staff
- The Orioles are staying in touch with Luke Scott who they non-tendered in December and remains one of the few names left on the free agent list for DH's.
- Beyond the Boxscore ranks the Rays' Top 12 prospects
- Seth McClung found himself another opportunity to try to get back to the majors for the first time since 2009. Big Red begat Grant Balfour so always be thankful the Brewers saw talent in McClung in 2007.
- MLBTR looks at the rapidly shrinking market for relievers desiring multi-year deals.
- Keith Law is not taking a job with the Astros front office. His work and opinions are a valuable part of the public domain and it would have been missed.
- If you thought this year's Hall of Fame discussions were interesting, just wait until next year!
- What would you change in baseball? Here are two bold suggestions.
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Jersey # like alot of players
www.espn1040.com, www.theprocessreport.com, www.bloombergsports.com Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on Jan 11, 2012 7:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ah. Thanks.
I never pay attention to jersey numbers.
by Ben Tumbling on Jan 11, 2012 7:21 AM EST up reply actions
Could just be a coincidence thats his number
But if the other is available that’s the only logical reason I see for it.
www.espn1040.com, www.theprocessreport.com, www.bloombergsports.com Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on Jan 11, 2012 8:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rays employees on twitter have engaged the account so I'm assuming it's valid now
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Madson ended up with $8.5M plus incentives in his deal
Steal for Walt Jocketty and the Reds while we learn that Ruben Amaro Jr. always pays sticker prices for cars.
If you are ever impatient at how the Rays run free agency, remember what the Phillies did with their closer role this off-season.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
Two words that should've taught Amaro a lesson
Ryan Howard
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 11, 2012 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
If the Rays, Indians, Pirates, Royals etc make that deal
it’d be a very risky one, more risk than reward probably.
For teams like the Phillies, Yankees etc, if Howard fails does it really change how they proceed in gathering talent or spending?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
You would hope so
But Amaro didn’t pass history apparently.
Howard had 1+yrs on his old deal, there was a lot of time.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 11, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
I see your point, to an extent.
But that’s just a bad allocation of resources (regardless of how many you have) and the timing just makes it baffling. It’s defensible to sign a player a bit over value it you have the money but Howard is going to be paid like a franchise player while Hamels and Utley walk.
by sattp on Jan 11, 2012 9:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I forgot to mention that he's also not that valuable of an asset.
by sattp on Jan 11, 2012 9:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
but the rbis!
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
But it was still completely unnecessary at the time
Imagine if they would have waited til he was a free agent and hurt and sucky.
I don't care who you are
Never by first
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
Detroit last year
struck early and got Benoit and Vmart…I think that worked out pretty well for El Tigres.
yup
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Just because you acquired talent doesn't mean you didn't overpay for it.
by sattp on Jan 11, 2012 10:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
did Detroit overpay
for Benoit or Vmart?
I am in agreement with Collette on this topic by the way. I like the way the Rays do business and love their model.
This year the market said grab a catcher early and the Rays did but to be first in line for a 1b/DH this offseason would be silly.
by MrNegative1 on Jan 11, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
You don't think Benoit was an overpay?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
yes he was
overpaid slightly, but now with the benefit of 1 productive year under his belt I can use hindsight and suggest otherwise!
He also fell into the multi-year love affair with relief pitchers as reported on MLBTR today.
by MrNegative1 on Jan 11, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
ok
horrible deal…Tigers and Dumbrowski are regretting it in their club offices as we speak.
by MrNegative1 on Jan 11, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
opens up cordero to the rays for cheap.
cordero, scott, and pena. trade davis/niemann for prospects, and call it an offseason. huzzah!
Why would you want Cordero?
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure if you're serious or not.
But just in case, he’s not an elite arm.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s sh###ing all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
his FIP the last three years is about equal with Peralta.
Granted it’s trending the wrong way, but that ‘s why he’s a buy low candidate. “elite” was probably the wrong word. buy-low with good upside for high leverage spots. better version of rodney.
His ever decreasing K rate coupled with his high BB rate (aside from 2011's outlier in the recent trend) is too concerning for me.
He’ll probably cost too much to be worth whatever minor reward he may provide.
2.84 3.69 4.18 — Cordero ERA FIP xFIP
3.18 3.48 3.93 — Peralta
Consider that 2009 was the only really good year that Cordero had in the past 3 and that 2009 was the only poor year that Peralta had, and you should be taking notice that not only is Peralta better, but they are trending in opposite directions. Cordero just seems washed up to me, and I’d really rather not have him pitch in high leverage situations.
In high leverage situations last season, his FIP was 4.47 (xFIP 4.34). In 2010, it was 3.83 (4.33). In 2009, it was 2.91 (4.19). I can’t find much hope in this trend. Peralta’s been bouncing back and forth in his effectiveness in high leverage situations for the past 3 years. Last year was pretty close to Cordero’s, at least in FIP, but in 2010, he just flat out dominated, and he sucked in 2009.
But to spend money on a guy like Cordero just seems like a waste. I’m not seeing much upside.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
i noted the trend in my last comment.
i put very little stock in leverage statistics because they are based on such small samples.
i said “opens up cordero to the rays for cheap.” “for cheap” is the key there. you can never have too many arms in a bullpen (especially one with as many questions as our’s has). the thing about RPs is trends matter less because so much of it could be SS issues. if the rays see something that could turn coco around then go for it, if they dont then dont. thats why i said hes like rodney. what about rodney is appealing when you look at his trends?
His insane GB% for the past few years is appealing.
not that I’m a huge fan of that acquisition, I can see how he might succeed here.
How cheap do you think Cordero will be?
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
no idea, but based on what madson just got he could come pretty cheap.
id do it for less than peralta got ($2-3 mill) if the scouts think they see something.
Yeah I'd be okay with that if he's only $2 million
another concern: wouldn’t paying these older RP like Rodney and Cordero (and even Farnsworth and Peralta) millions get in the way of pitching younger, much higher upside guys like McGee and Lueke and Torres, etc, if they’re ineffective? Would the Rays be willing to cut bait on the money they spent? I was wondering about that.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
While i see both Pena and Damon as real fits for the Rays, i didn't
get anyything positive out of Boras’ comment. He rarely tips his hand and certainly isn’t about to exclude any team
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Maybe he was considering player preference
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
From MLBTR: Scott Proctor signs in Korea
Think Longoria’s HR had anything to do with it?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
He's there for military purposes
Launching of bombs
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 11, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Fernando Martinez waived by the Mets
Should there be any interest in him? I remember literally speeding home and running to my laptop when I heard on the radio that he had been called up in 2009. Missed him by less than a minute in my NL only league.
He’s sucked, but he used to be a top prospect, so maybe there’s still something to him?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
He would be interesting to add to Durham.
I’m not sure if his injuries zapped some of his tools but he was certainly a top prospect and still young enough to add on a minor league deal.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 11, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he just turned 23.
Over on AA, they seem surprised, but some seem to think the dude can barely run. Knee problems. Someone said something about a degenerative condition. I wonder if this is anything like the Baldelli case. I’m not looking it up, but if anyone knows anything about it, please share and enable my laziness as I am on a sick day and refuse to google search.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Well i think speed played a major part of his game.
if he can’t run , it would explain him being waived.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 11, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
never had more than 8 sb in a season.
his minor league ISO is decent, though. Seems like some power potential more than speed, but I don’t know his scouting reports.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
His waiver period expires today
There’s no risk in putting a claim and just seeing what he has if anything
www.espn1040.com, www.theprocessreport.com, www.bloombergsports.com Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on Jan 11, 2012 9:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
arthritic knees at 23 suck
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Bulk him up and plop him at 1b!
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Someone has put a claim in on him
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
F-Mart has an option remaining
so it might be the Rays, but it won’t matter because of inverse order of standings
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 11, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
MLBTR confirming Rays interest in Luke Scott
so there’s that
Scott v Damon
Scott’s numbers in Camden Yards v Damon’s numbers in Yankee Stadium
I’ll take Damon if Scott’s price tag is significantly higher
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
rather have neither
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Pena & Betemit & I'm happy
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Butler & Betemit
but only if Betemit agrees to give up trying to hit right-handed
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 11, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
I am also starting to come around on Billy Butler
but I think the Royals will hold him hostage for an overpay.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, dealing with the Royals seems to be a tremendous pain
I’ve come around on a subsidized Konerko, too.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 11, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I am on board with this.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
FIELDER OR BUST
Betemit still being out there is intriguing
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 11, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Tired of the RFO sitting on their hands.
Kotch seems a no-brainer. One of the best hitters in the AL. Period. And a definite stud on defense at an extremely valuable position. PLUS he is from the Tampa area. Not another part of the state as Damon, but literally a home-town player.
@RealNolenBailey
Let's bring back Doug Waechter for the bullpen
The original hometown boy!
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
haha who are you quoting?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Didn't want to call him out by name, but just a little gem I found on a certain 'warmth-producing' Rays site.
@RealNolenBailey
checkity check check
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I need to start checking in there more often.
That crap is hilarious.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 11, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Bigs beckon Beckham
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 10:52 AM EST reply actions
Noted stoner, Bongora, must have introduced him to this place.
For food, in Durham I would recommend [pizza joint] Mellow Mushroom — it’s right across the street from the park.
@RealNolenBailey
Everyone mentions that Mellow Mushroom in Durham
The beer at the one down the road here in great but the pizza has been hit and miss
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
That's impossible.
I don’t walk to the stadium anymore, I have people pull me while I slide across the sea of empty shell casings like I’m skiing.
@RealNolenBailey
isn't there one of those in Sarasota?
"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Agreed
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
and he uses "well/good" correctly. Impressive for a kid from backwoods GA who didn't go to college.
apart from being a grammar snob, i always love his nterviews or things i read about him. he seems to be a great kid that wants to be the best.
Baseball players just seem smarter than your average athlete
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 11, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I'd imagine they have the lowest level of education
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 11, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Luke Scott told me he still thinks he's a bust.
@RealNolenBailey
by Hatfield on Jan 11, 2012 3:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm still not sure what to think about the addition of a leg kick.
Guess we’ll see how that goes for him…it just seems like it’s so easy for that to get out of synch and make timing difficult. Or maybe that’s just me being biased with our experience with Upton.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 11, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Boom..
At #Rays workout at Trop, those taking ground balls at 1B include. Canzler, S-Rod, Brignac and … Matt Joyce
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 11, 2012 11:23 AM EST reply actions
dude why is Brignac there?
The guy has 1 rule, make the highlight reel on defense only for the number to say you were actually bad on D.
Pena will be at 1B for the 2012 season. Boras only getting 1 year/8 million for a guy that wanted 4 years/44 million makes me much more confident.
Matt Moore. That is all.
That is a fact...
….but sometimes it’s not necessary to read between the lines.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/rays/content/joyce-working-out-first-just-case
Are we picking 2 out of these 4? Pena, Damon, Kotchman and Scott
I’m sorry but I’m taking Damon over Scott because Scott has an IF and that’s IF he’s healthy and IF BJ Upton doesn’t beat him up, he will be better than Damon.
I pick Pena over Kotch simply because the AVG was nice and all but Pena’s D is just about the same and he adds homers (and strikeouts) to the lineup.
Matt Moore. That is all.
This guy on MLBtr
How much money do the Rays have to spend? If they grabbed Scott ($3M), Pena ($5M), Cordero ($8M) and traded Wade Davis, Jake Hager & Ryan Brett for Kurt Suzuki & Chris Carter, they’d be so filthy.
1B: C Pena
2B: B. Zobrist
SS: S. Rodriguez
3B: E. Longoroia
C: K. Suzuki
LF: L. Scott
CF: D. Jennings
RF: M. Morse
DH: C. Carter
OVERpay for Suzuki, can’t even trade Hager, why are our corner OF’ers Scott and Morse and why would we give Cordero what Madson just made?
Matt Moore. That is all.
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