Rays Winter Development Program Impressions
First off - I am very honored to have been invited by Steve to be an occasional contributor to DraysBay. Don't expect any mind blowing statistical analysis pieces or fancy Pitch F/X charts from me, because sabermetrics is an area that I am still becoming familiar with. I'm sure in the coming weeks and months I'll learn plenty from all of you on that front.
What I do hope I can provide to this site occasionally is a little bit of information on the Rays' minor league system and some of their top prospects from more of a scouting point of view. I will be covering the system for my own site - which I might as well go ahead and pimp now and be done with - - Rays Digest. But I will - as time permits - contribute here as well and am estatic to be doing so.
In that vein, I had the opportunity to attend the Rays' Winter Development Program on Wednesday at Tropicana Field and wanted to share some of the things I saw and experienced there. After the jump I will do so.
*** As reported by Marc Topkins and others, Matt Joyce (along with Russ Canzler) was in fact taking ground balls and throws at first base. After his workout he talked to reporters and said, "That’s the Rays. They like guys to be versatile. They just asked me if I would come out and take some ground balls just in case something happened where they moved me around - or moved some guys around . It’s gives us some extra flexibility."
Let's hope that nothing happens, because from what I saw Joyce did not even look passable at first base. He was having issues going to his right to get balls and on several occasions - in the five minutes I watched him - booted some pretty routine grounders badly.
I have no idea if it was his first workout there or not and to be fair it is the beginning of January and not the start of Spring Training. He also had a brand new glove (that apparently was a gift from Rawlings) that looked like it needed the ol' under-the-mattress-treatment we used to employ as kids.
If the Rays truly are just trying to get a feel for if Joyce can handle the position, then their initial impressions were probably "hmmm....we'll see."
With the signing of Luke Scott apparently a done deal, the Rays do have another option to consider at first, although Scott indicated that he will serve as the team's designated hitter.
I'm not saying that Joyce won't be able to cut it at first if he becomes Plan B, C or D. Only that he needs some work there. Which I suppose, is perhaps a pretty obvious statement.
*** As for the minor league players - they spent the majority of their time doing strength and conditioning and flexibility exercises. The impression that I got from all the players that I talked to was that this camp was about learning how to be a professional. Part of that, obviously, is learning how to stay in shape during the off-season and coming to Spring Training healthy, in-shape, and ready to roll. I overheard several lectures from members of the training staff talking about the kinds of things that needed to be done to stay fit this winter and nearly every player I talked to indicated that they had been working out on their own all off-season pretty rigorously.
*** The hitter's went through some bunting drills and it was encouraging to see that so many of the players at the camp had pretty good bunting technique and were able to execute various types of bunts.
*** I talked to about 15 different players in the clubhouse after the workout. I was able to get interviews with most of the top draft picks from the past two years. I was truly impressed by how well they all answered my questions and you could tell that they had recently been coached on handling media.
*** A couple of notes on some specific players:
1) According to Josh Sale, his struggles last year were not mechanical...but mental. Take that for what it's worth, but he indicated that his swing is fine. (It has been widely reported that the Rays were tinkering with his swing) It is also worth noting that he has his own personal hitting coach that he seems extremely committed to. Nearly every scouting report I've read on Sale has indicated that his swing needs work. So, perhaps - and I'm speculating here - his coach may be the problem.
Sale is also a pretty intense guy. He is covered in tattoos and currently sports a mohawk. I couldn't help but to think that I was interviewing an MMA fighter and not a baseball player. That said, he obviously has a high baseball IQ and was very specific and thorough when answering all of my questions.
2) Justin O'Conner was another guy I talked to that has been a bit of a disappointment in his young career. He told me that he was "paying too much attention to my stats." I'm not sure what that means, because unless you like looking at strikeouts there wasn't much to see from O'Conner last year. He also indicated - as I suspected - that he is still not used to catching physically and that his off-season program is more catered towards the rigors of catching this winter.
3) One final player that is worth mentioning is Lenny Linsky. I was very impressed with the way he carried himself and there was definitely a higher level of maturity emanating from him in comparison to some of the guys that were just out of high school. He told me that his off-season workout program consists of surfing every day, which apparently gets him a lot of ribbing. However, as someone who has done a little surfing in my younger days, I can tell you that surfing is pretty demanding on the body.
I'll have more coverage of my day at the Winter Development program here and on Rays Digest in the coming days.
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Do you know
if the workouts continue today, and if so, what time, and are they open to the public?
Workouts end today
From what I understand the workouts are not open to the public. Very disappointing as I would have liked to see a few of the future Rays up close and personal.
by Longorious on Jan 12, 2012 7:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Correct. Workouts end today.
They weren’t open to the public. I did shoot some video and will get some up on the web sometime this week. Honestly, at least yesterday anyways, there really wasn’t too much to see in terms of baseball activities. Other than the bunting drills and some long toss by the pitchers, everything was just strength and conditioning stuff. Still, it would be nice if in the future they opened up the Trop to the public.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Shortest bobr post of all time
Maddon's Mission
Make you want to kill him, then make you want to love him. Sly.
by Jonah Keri on Jun 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
Interesting about Sale
Do the Rays have a policy about outside hitting coaches? And do you have any of those scouting reports/thi vs the Rays have said about tinkering with his swing handy?
by Whelk on Jan 12, 2012 8:16 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'll try and dig them up for you.
I know that at least a one I read was on Baseball America and was premium content though. I’ll post some links though when I find them.
I don’t know what the Rays policy is on that.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
A few more things I just remembered.
I haven’t transcribed the interview yet, so I don’t have an exact quote, but Sale told me that his coach will be with forever. He also told me that he took some of his draft bonus money and opened up his own baseball facility that he trains at with other top players from the area. I’m assuming that his coach and Dad (who was a drug-free power-lifter) are employed there or at least work there. In any case, it seems that the two of them are very influential in his off-season preparations and Sale said that his father makes his workout schedule that is tailor-made for baseball activities.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
I don't know if they have to be approved or anything
but several Rays have used outside hitting coaches (Zobrist, Ruggs, #FreeNevinAshley)
Use the force, Lueke
I'm having trouble finding stuff about Rays tinkering.
It may have been from a conversation that I had with a scout (I’ve talked to several in the past few weeks). At any rate, I should probably edit post to say that “I’ve heard that the Rays are tinkering with his swing.” Don’t want to get the reputation for reporting false info.
I have started transcribing Sale interview though and Sale himself says that the coaching staff worked a little on his swing and approach last year.
I intend on publishing entire Sale interview as a free piece, who knows maybe even here?
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Jesse Hahn was there.
I didn’t get a chance to talk to him though. He was working out with everyone else, but I didn’t see him doing any actual throwing so I don’t know how his recovery from Tommy John is going.
Thanks. Glad you liked Thompson interview. From all of the guys I talked to… he (and Linksy) were the most engaging and comfortable. I’m assuming that this is because they are older and have a lot of experience doing interviews from their college days.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Pretty much all the reports I read from last year said his swing looked broken.
Don’t remember reading anything about the Rays tinkering with it, but I may not remember or may have read something else. I also take scouting reports on guys in really low levels with a big grain of salt because most scouting services don’t invest a lot of time in those levels, and I’d imagine most is based on one game or convos with scouts extrapolated out.
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“When we saw him early, he looked jumpy in the box,” Pulaski manager Rob Mummau said, “but the last time we saw him, he had made adjustments and slowed things down with his lower half.”
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jan 12, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for finding this.
I know I had read something somewhere about some adjustments being made.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Are Sale and O'Conner going to play full season at BG? Let's hope so, as they need it
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I believe the question should be about where they start and not where they finish.
If either breaks out, then they could (of course) move up a level.
I don't know where they will begin 2012.
Generally, those sorts of decisions aren’t really made in the off-season. The Rays may have a general idea of where they will start, but until Spring Training when they are further evaluated, their is no real way of knowing and the players themselves will tell you that they have no idea either. My best guess is that Sale anyways will do extended Spring Training and then go to Hudson Valley.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Just a quick mention of his swing issue _ http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/11/17/2568935/tampa-bay-rays-top-20-prospects-for-2012
A brief draft scouting report that breaks down his swing mechanics pretty well. http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/5/14/1471601/2010-draft-profile-josh-sale
and a little more on his swing
http://www.raysprospects.com/2010/06/rays-1st-round-pick-17th-overall-josh.html
I’ll try and dig up something on Rays tinkering with it (guess it wasn’t widely reported as I remember).
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
no header from a staff writer
this site is going down the tubes
Use the force, Lueke
by nomoredevil on Jan 12, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
:-P
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 12, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Baby Steps
Let’s hope Joyce can at least begin to make progress at 1b because it would be a nice option in the next few years:
Let’s hope that nothing happens, because from what I saw Joyce did not even look passable at first base. He was having issues going to his right to get balls and on several occasions – in the five minutes I watched him – booted some pretty routine grounders badly.
I’ve maintained all winter that the Rays will not platoon or slide a player to 1b, but I am also one who believes that having versatile players opens many doors for a manager in late/extra innings, so hope they keep working it.
You and i both know Matt Joyce is using a rented first baseman's mitt
Pena or Kotch will be the first baseman this year
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I know you are speaking figuratively
But Joyce specifically said that the 1B mitt he had on was given to him by Rawlings. As I said this thing was brand spanking new.
It is also worth noting that Canzler was working out at 1B too. He looked pretty good, but only in comparison to Joyce, who didn’t.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Dear Mr Sternfan
DRB Firstbaseman Matt Joyce makes all the catches when his MOM hits the balls to him. I don’t think it is his mitt. I was there and saw him catch 20 out of 20 when his mother hit them to him.
by Landlord on Jan 12, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I read an article on this program last night somewhere
and all the prospects quoted seem to love it. The extra 2%?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I'll say this: not everyone takes full advantage of it
It’s a great opportunity. The Astros also run something like this.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude
by Jason Collette on Jan 12, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
Hey, good article
Interesting and very well written. Love to get first-hand perspectives on the team. I look forward to reading your stuff in the future.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Hopefully I can give snippets of info like this all season long. That’s the plan anyways.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon

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