Rays Tank: Yankees Acquire Pineda in Trade & Sign Hiroki Kuroda. Is Carlos Pena Next?

This is what you wrote on the other thread. I interpret “from July 4” to include that date.

Please note that I am not arguing that Pineda will definitely be a success in NY. I am trying to demonstrate that you are exaggerating when using terms and phrases like “awful” or “the wheels came off”. In my view, that kind of language misrepresents the case. If Pineda’s performance was awful in the second half, then what descriptive would you use for Lackey’s season? “Super-awful”? “Mega-awful”.

Post what you like-or what you “feel”. But like you, I reserve the right to disagree, and try to provide data to explain why. I don’t consider it condescending to point out that the facts do not support your feelings in this case, and I am certainly open to re-thinking the question if you demonstrate that the facts I have presented are irrelevant or inaccurate or incomplete or need more context or whatever you like to make your case.

As for sarcasm, if it is in my post it is unintentional. On the contrary, I tried to be absolutely straightforward in saying I considered what you said wrong. I admit to being irritated by posts that exaggerate or over-simplify, which I think yours did. I think it is those sorts of posts that lead to flame wars and end with a lot of name-calling, and while such threads can be funny, after a bit they wear thin for me.

More to the point, if you project failure for Pineda based on a view that he was awful after July 4, I think there is a disconnect between your analysis and the facts, and again, I freely admit to be irritated by arguments based on a faulty statement of information.

We will not find out at the end of the season who is right, at least not if you are referring to my post, because I did not say that Pineda would succeed in NY. I simply said that he was not awful from or after July 4, so if your analysis is based on the claim that he was awful your argument has no merit. You may still end up “right” should he flop, but not because you could see it in his late season performance in 2011.

I.e. I’d trade all 3 of last year’s first rounders for a prospect of even Myers/Mesoraco’s caliber, forget the super prospects like Trout/Profar.

Quality>quantity when it comes to farms

If he was, he would be second. Konerko gives us the best chance to win now, thats why hes number one. Belt is my favorite long term option.

These are my top two targets for the Rays and I think they can be had.

According to rosenthal, ike davis is off limits but murphy and duda were not untouchable. What about guyer for duda? Mets get a true outfielder with similar value but dissimilar skill set, better suited for outfield in a big park. I assume rays would have to throw in another prospect.

As for the white sox, its clear they are trying to rebuild, however they have a lot of unmovable contracts (peavy, dunn, rios, etc). The only two guys they can really move are konerko and floyd. If they picked up the deferred money and konerko remained a 3-2.5 war player, they would have an excess value of about 10 mil, which would net them 3-4 decent prospects like ive suggested. There is also the no-trade issue, but if white sox are committed to rebiulding, paulie might not want to stick around.

PSA as a whole is a respectable community

ie

.334 wOBA, 107 wrC+, 1.1 WAR
.351 wOBA, 118 wrC+, 2.2 WAR

Player 1 is Lee, player 2 is Pena. Those are the three year averages.

I have less of an issue with getting Lee as I do with your assessment of a fair trade. I literally wouldnt trade one player you mentioned for Lee.

If both guys were free agents, and demanded the same salary, this would be much more of an interesting debate. Each player has their own merits. But we werent talking about which player you would rather have. The issue here is that if both players made the same money in 2012, do you think Lee is so much of an improvement over Pena, that you would be willing to give up prospects. Which is better, Lee or Pena and prospects. Im sorry, Lee isnt so much better than Pena that I would be willing to give up talent in addition to paying them the same amount.