The Rays Tank: Foster-Sternberg Aftermath
In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure what to make of mayor Bill Foster's remarks about his meeting with Stuart Sternberg on Tuesday. From what I can tell, Foster seems to be making a couple points:
- Foster had Stu explain the team's marketing efforts, and he does believe they've done a good job (contrary to his rumored stance from earlier this offseason). Foster made a pledge to help the Rays market to the wider area, and the same goes for Tampa mayor Bob Buckhorn; both cities will help with drawing fans to the Trop this year.
- According to Foster, Stu is concerned about the future viability of the Tampa Bay market. It's not just that he wants to look into a new stadium in Tampa; he wants to be able to pursue stadiums in other cities as well, and see which situation would be the most ideal.
The first point is encouraging, as it at least shows that there's some on-going collaboration between the team and both sides of the Bay. Communication lines between Sternberg and Foster are probably more open now, which can hopefully only be a good thing.
But as for the second point...I'm not sure how to take it. It is the perfect storyline for Foster to feed to the area. "The Rays want out of the area, but I'm standing strong and won't let them go anywhere...or even talk about going anywhere!" It plays into people's fears about Stu wanting to relocate the team, and casts him as the villain in these negotiations. So I'm hesitant to take Foster's words at face value, as they are so very slanted in his favor.
Then again, I also don't think Foster is lying here; that would completely sandbag his relationship with the Rays, and I don't think he wants to do that. And if Foster is telling the truth -- that Sternberg spoke mostly about larger concerns of the viability of the Tampa Bay market -- then I think the negotiations just got kicked up a notch. Sternberg just put the burden of proof on Foster and on the area: "Okay, if the Tampa Bay area is viable...show me. Show me how it makes business sense for us to remain here." I don't think there's a realistic chance the Rays go anywhere else, but by making Foster prove the area's viability, he's playing the long game and hoping Foster comes to realize what most everyone else does: the path towards long-term viability for the Rays is over in Tampa.
Anyway, that's just my take on it...I could be reading way too much into this. More links after the jump.
- A pro-Rays column written in the Tampa Bay Times? Love it! Hopefully the team continues to generate as much positive local attention as possible before the season starts.
- Yu Darvish signed a 6 year, ~$60 million deal with the Rangers yesterday. And with that, it appears the Rangers are unlikely to make a significant run at Prince Fielder.
- The Mariners signed Oliver Perez to a minor league deal, which is funny because I'd completely forgot that Perez was still around and on the market.
- Craig Counsell talk two days in a row? Yes, apparently. This graphic looking at Counsell's success with his various batting stances is so awesome.
- Joe Posnanski is conducting a poll at his website, asking people to vote for who they believe were the best sports players of all-time. It's an interesting question, and it goes along well with his most recent blog post on Ali.
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In the dead of the pacific northwest night, BIZBALL awakes with a thirst for blooooooood
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
But srsly, $tu, take some lessons from vinik on how to run a successful Sports franchise. At least vinik lives in the area!!!
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
by PlayOnWords on Jan 19, 2012 8:45 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
My dad (god love him) seriously holds the opinion that people don't connect to the Rays the way they did to the Dungy/Gruden Bucs because the Rays players don't live in the community during the offseason.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
It's what his dad believes
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Many more then the Dungy/Gruden Bucs imo
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
maybe as a percentage...
but the Rays have the advantage of so many teams having their Spring Trainings on the west coast of Florida.
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Longo has a place, but works out in Phoenix...
Srod lives in the area. Kotch;) Dont know where Zobrist lives. But that’s a good amount of the starters.
Zobrist lives in Tennessee IIRC.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
If Stu wants people to come to the trop he should invest his own money to spruce it up just like Vinik did.
Wait….what??? He did do this?
Ok I got nothing
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
by Sveet on Jan 19, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This x100.
People have such short term memories.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 19, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
And it wasn't cheap either
He invested millions in this.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think people forget how much of a hellhole that place was before Stu came to town
Tropicana Field underwent a further $25-million facelift prior to the 2006 season. Another $10 million in improvements was added during the season. In 2006, the Devil Rays added a live Cownose ray tank to Tropicana Field. The tank is located just behind the center field wall, in clear view of the play on the field. People can go up to the tank to touch the creatures. Further improvements prior to the 2007 offseason, in addition to the new FieldTurf, include additional family features in the right field area, the creation of a new premium club, and several new video boards including a new 35 ft (11 m) x 64 ft (20 m) Daktronics LED main video board that is four times larger than the original video board. The 2007 renovation also added built-in high-definition television capabilities to the ballpark, with Fox Sports Florida and WXPX airing at least a quarter of the schedule in HD in 2007 and accommodating the new video board’s 16×9 aspect ratio.
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
$35 million isn’t exactly chump change. The Rays have done everything they can to make the Trop look as good as they possibly can. No doubt about it, they made an effort.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
And, of course, the Tampa Bay Times article has to throw one stink bomb in there....
BJ Upton? Really? He makes it sound like BJ is a burden at his price and that the Rays haven’t traded him because no one wants him.
Now here's what Stu probably really hinted at
If he’s aloud to explore all areas of Tama Bay and all efforts for a new stadium here fail, then he’s forced to consider other areas. MLB and Sternberg aren’t about to give up on such a huge market like Tampa/Orlando before exhausting all measures
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
That's my thought too...I can't imagine them giving up on Tampa Bay unless something really caves through.
The alternatives out there aren’t very attractive.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 19, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
this was $tus best move yet
All along $tu said the rays need regional support. And how can you get that if both sides of the bay are competing against each other? But by threatening the viability of the entire area, he can get st Pete and Tampa to do what they rarely do…work together.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 9:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
How so?
I’ve never heard Buckhorn talk about any marketing efforts for the Rays right now…just describing how the Rays are a “regional asset.” And now Foster has to show the area can support the Rays.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Buckhorn has to tread carefully
Anything he says could be construed as a violation of the Rays agreement
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Which is why if he said the Rays are a "regional asset"
He needs to work with them now to help create interest, and not just if they move to the other side of the bay. That would give St. Pete grounds for litigation, if it comes to that point.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Huh, good point...I could definitely see that.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
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by Steve Slowinski on Jan 19, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
The train thing is a start, but the proper infrastructure for that is probably 15 years or more away too, just in time for the lease to run out.
The problem with the train is I/other Tampa residents would still have to drive to a garage just to get to the train. I would rather drive and be there in the same amount of time. Foster would be better off letting the team move to Tampa, but as part of the deal have a train from the hot-spots in St. Pete funnel to the new stadium.
but then you could sober up on the train.
have you ever lived in an area with viable public transit?
Negotiations 101: Set up an extreme view so your goal is actually considered the middle ground
Stu is probably starting grandiose so he can obtain his actual goal of not leaving the region, but simply moving to Tampa. He’s a pretty savvy negotiator.
by BlakeBuchanan87 on Jan 19, 2012 9:25 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I still can't believe $tu bought this team for a little over $50 million.
For him to cry about making money is sickening. He could walk away today with a 200% profit if not more while never falling into the red during a single season.
The Pat Burrell contract cost him a second private island, you base cur.
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
As of 2009...
According to Forbes magazine, the value of the Rays franchise has gone up to $320 million, a 10 percent increase over last season that is third largest in the majors.
As far as not going into the red, I’m wrong there. They probably took a slight loss in 2008.
what an asshole. by an undervalued asset. improve the shit out of it. make the stakeholders giddy. get more stakeholders.
then see the “value” skyrocket.
you do realize the only reason the “value” has skyrocketed is because of their great job, right? it isnt like the people in the area did anything. give me a effing break.
by rglass44 on Jan 19, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
While I dislike the guy as much as the next one, please avoid front page profanity
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
This is the logic that frustrates the crap out of me as well
He earned the uptick in value because he put competent people in a position to succeed. This further shows he’s doing his part. But that has its limit. And the Rays payroll shows that. Any business that does well does two things: yearly revenue and value of business revenue. That value of business revenue comes only if someone decides to sell. But that revenue is not how one primarily earns their coin. The year-to-year is critical…and also heavily influences the price of selling the business.
The value of the Rays may go up, but no one will want to buy them if they are sustaining year-to-year losses. DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
So it's ok that he continues to threaten to leave?
I’m didn’t say the guy was bad. He has done a great job. But threatening to leave a situation that he knew he was getting into when he is clearly making money is frustrating. As a businessman, I understand his points, but as a fan I don’t like having to hear about how terrible things are for him.
by playjoyce on Jan 19, 2012 12:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How do we know he is clearly raking in money?
THe team’s value has gone up, not his savings account.
He doesn't have to sell...at some point he can move it. It's his business and he can do what he wants with it
He has a right to threaten to move as a negotation ploy in the same way Foster has a right to wave the lease in the air as another negotation ploy. The key is moving past the ploys to finding common ground where both sides get more of what they want.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
exactly. it isnt threats, but rather he is stating facts.
if they put a winner on the field, and they cant get butts in the seats, then it isnt a viable market. thats pretty clear. so what is a business owner to do? look for a more viable market where they can make more money, and quite possibly, put a better team on the field. he owes the community nothing.
Ok.
I agree with everything being said. He can do what he wants, he has the right to move, not to sell, etc.
My point is that if he is trying to indict the entire market in a ploy to get them to work together, then he risks losing the Tampa market fans too. If his real goal is to move to Tampa, then telling Tampa residents that they are not good enough fans to support baseball is a bad move, especially in this economy and if this is a very protracted process (I.e. 15 more years on the lease). People will get sick of hearing about Stu’s high-class problems. he obviously thinks the team is worth much more than its current value, and he wants to keep it, which is fine.
Also, according to Foster on Sileo this morning, Stu was jokingly asking about a Marlins-type deal. Again, he can do what he wants, its his team, but he is not the messiah of owners that he is portrayed as. I think moving the team to Tampa is fine, but to start saying the whole market is bad and think we are going to pass a tax to build a stadium is a strange strategy. That’s like telling a customer they kinda suck, but if I’m stuck with you, so I’m going to charge you extra to receive my services. The customer will just go elsewhere. Especially in the entertainment industry in a bad economy
by playjoyce on Jan 19, 2012 1:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Keep in mind Stu has said nothing about the meeting
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Foster is definitely out there trying to control the message
That’s a downside of the Rays’ policy on staying quiet on things, but eventually Foster is going to say the wrong thing. I don’t believe for a second that Stu would even crack a joke like that because that type of deal spawned a SEC investigation.
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I missed the Sileo show this morning (like every other morning)...
but at best this is fourth hand information
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
You should miss it every morning
Air pollution….he’s the reason why I first bought my satellite radio when he was in Orlando. Maybe he’s improved since then but man he was awful here.
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
He interviewed Foster live this morning
Some interesting things were said
I'm pretty positive that a number of them were twisting the truth or lies.
I know I was somewhat reserved in my post, but personally, I don’t believe Stu would say half these things Foster is putting in his mouth.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
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by Steve Slowinski on Jan 19, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
I can only go on what I hear come from their mouths. Since Foster is the only one talking, its only his side that is being presented.
Foster didn't claim that Stu wanted a Miami deal
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
He said that it they were joking about it. That is why I said "jokingly"
There was something about them talking about it “tongue in cheek”. I can’t listen again, my sound card got fried.
I just listened to it and took notes...
Foster never said that Stu wanted a Miami deal, even jokingly. He did say that Stu likes Miami’s stadium.
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to listen to it right now...
I’ll update with any important info
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
where has he said the fans are bad? ive never read that. ive seen where he said "this may not be a viable market."
can you disagree with that?
by rglass44 on Jan 19, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone who has a business will move it somewhere else if it helps him turn a bigger profit
That’s just common sense.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 19, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think they did know that people wouldnt come to the trop with a winner on the field. i certainly would have expected it.
They definitely didn't
or else they wouldn’t have originally proposed a new stadium in st. pete.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
They jumped 5k in 2008
Who knew that was all they’d get from it
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I beleive he only owns 51% not 100%
That 50 millions didn’t buy 100% of the team
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
That is my understanding too.
He would stand to make $110+ million off of the $50mill he invested if he sold for what they are valued at. That assumes there is a buyer.
by playjoyce on Jan 19, 2012 1:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Could be an MLB-owned thing a la Expos
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
essentially, the "value" of the team is what someone is willing to pay for it. forbes' valuation has no bearing on that.
MLB could cut a deal with Stu
You never know what Bud may draw up
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Stop
This is stupid logic. Stop it.
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 19, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
This is Politics in St Pete
Foster and Kennedy are 2 peas in a pod. They are back stabbing liars and in no way are they going to solve this issue. Kennedy was chairman of the council and cut off Leslie Curran at every attempt she made to get Foster to the table. Foster used Kennedy and his seat to hide from questioning from the council members. Now Foster brings him to the table with Stu. Leslie now has the chair and things will start moving in a positive direction.
Foster called Susan Latvala a liar when he said the Rays were sandbagging. Foster is full of Crapola. Get Foster out of office and let the Tampa Bay area have some fun.
First step: Get the Rays a new building
Second step: Reinstate dancing
@thekidpow
Calm, collected, German.
This timeline should be front and center
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2010/graphics/rays-timeline/
That’s where we are at. We’re now in the medium risk zone of no action
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 10:01 AM EST reply actions
Maybe living in Orlando means I don't care about this issue very much
but I don’t see why anyone would want their community to publicly fund a stadium for a sports franchise. It’s not a good deal, long term for the community since it only fattens the pockets of the owner. If there were a viable market for relocation, it would be one thing, but the Rays really have no almost no leverage here. Good for Foster for pointing it out.
Right now, if the Rays want a stadium then they should finance it. If I want to buy a house, I don’t ask the local government to build me one.
Ownership should carry most of the burden, but not all of it
I forgot what DeVos milked out of our local government here, but his initial proposal of paying 10% while asking city to pay 90% was comical.
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
even if that is a 51/49 split
The Miami situation certainly does not help public perception
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Not since they rebranded themselves as the Miami Marlins
I just don’t feel a kinship with them any longer
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Barry my boy is in Orlando today
A good friend of mine is signing the national anthem at his Disney appearance today
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Legit question...
are they singing it or are they signing it?
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm turrible
She’s singing it…someone else signing it
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
but if you bought a house
you’d want electrical/gas/water/sewer and a road to drive up to with traffic lights/stop signs/etc it built by the local government right?
In essence, the idea has to be that the taxpayer help with the utilities and road infrastructure etc
Additionally monies beyond that can be collected in one of many ways that are user fee taxes like on tobacco/alcohol, hotel rooms, rental cars, etc.
If you were to put a tax on homeowners for instance to build this stadium it would fail in both either county and everyone, including Sternberg knows this. If he tried to get financing this way it would be an indication to me that he wants out of the area and picked the sure guaranteed failure way to do it.
It’s funny, Sternberg has all the leverage because one way or another he is taking his team somewhere else to play before the end of the lease. He has made it perfectly clear.
by MrNegative1 on Jan 19, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Funding solutions are going to be very interesting to follow
Sin taxes, tourist taxes, etc. Hell, if they dropped the $2 surcharge for sameday purchases and called it a stadium fund fee ($1 per every ticket), at least fans could track where that money was going. Sure, it would have amounted to $1.6M or so this year, but that’s that would have equated to ~$5M over the past few seasons.
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
it's always fun
to see how the financing comes together. The looking at the dark and negative side of the issue is pointless.
I would enjoy the chess game much more if the victor (Sternberg) wasn’t already decided. Foster, just has to find the way to look as if he is doing a huge favor by laying down his king.
by MrNegative1 on Jan 19, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
as a rays fan, id like to see a publicly funded stadium. as an economist, i wouldnt. rays fan generally wins, though.
in all honesty, though, if people in fl are going to start paying taxes, id rather see it go to moving them in to the 21st century as far as transit and infrastructure goes. ill believe that the state full of people on their death bed will take the longview about anything when i see it.
I live in Orlando too,
and I haven’t felt anything but positive effects from our recent public funding of a sports stadium.
I agree with all of your points. I live in NE St Pete and attend 40 games a year. I support the RAYS via attendance and viewership
I also own 2 homes here and pay what I feel is an excessive amount in property taxes. As much as it would kill me to lose the RAYS to a location outside of TB, I am 100% against my taxes being increased to pay for the majority share of a new stadium.
Foster is taking the correct position for the majority of those who elected him. However as leader of this city, he must attempt to leverage his position onto the community to support the RAYS attendance and be part of the “solution”.
I guess my thing with Florida and taxes is...
I mean, you guys don’t have a state income tax, right? That’s absolutely unheard of in many other states…I get nailed with a fed income tax, a crazy high state income tax, and a sales tax that’s not all that different from FL’s.
I’d be interested to see something on how FL’s overall tax rates stack up against other states, because it seems to me like the lack of a state income tax has really got to help matters and make the overall tax burden low.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 19, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I guess the one large variable I'm neglecting here is the property tax, which drungo alludes to.
That’s outside my realm of knowledge…guess that could account for some of the difference.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 19, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Property tax is brutal but not as much as income tax IIRC.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
You can always downsize or rent at least to lessen your Property Tax burden
You can’t do that with income
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yes you can. You can make less money
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Then you're just poorer then
How does that solve your problem?
Unless you wanna be a welfare king/queen #politicalhumor
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
There's a listing on p. A.4 of today's Wall St. Journal
of the 10 states with the highest state-local tax burden (NJ, NY, Conn. are the top 3, CA is no. 6) & the 10 states with the lowest state-local tax burden. (AL, NV, SD have the lowest). Fla. isn’t on either list. Without a state income tax, the property and sales taxes must be very high for Fla. not to be in the 10-lowest list.
2012 has to be a better year. Doesn't it?
The East Coast of Florida is brutal
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Going to the source for the lists in the WSJ
which is www.taxfoundation.org , it lists Fla. as the 31-st highest tax burden state, based on 2009 FY data (the most recent available).
2012 has to be a better year. Doesn't it?
This is not including the insanely home-owners insurance either.
And it sure would be nice to be able to move….oh yeah everyone is upside down on their houses except for upstarts.
That might be a little skewed because our per-capita income isn't as high as other states.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you think everyone moves here
State Income Tax buries the middle-class & poor because they can’t move.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Not on hand-maybe later I can find some articles when I have extra time
But my reasoning for it is-If you’re wealthy, you can move & establish residence in a more tax-friendly state because you have large wealth or a job that allows you to move. Don’t necessarily have this option if you’re a regular worker really.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
it's insanely low because a bunch of people with no stake in the area move there as a tax shelter when they quit working. and they vote alot.
they dont care what florida looks like in 10 years. they dont care about florida’s kids succeeding. in fact, it behooves them to have a state of hotel employees or waiters because it keeps their cost of living down.
What about tax dollars going to a performing arts center or to bring in events like the grand prix, etc.?
I think people overexaggerated how much a new stadium would cost them personally. Would you even notice the difference?
People in hillsborough complain about paying for RayJay. Have those taxes had a negative impact on anyone that lives in Tampa’s lives. Honest question.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
It increased the property values of those living around it.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't RayJay (along with other projects) paid for with a sales tax?
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Tourism Taxes I believe
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Nope...
it was a half-penny sales tax
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
What about no new taxes don't you understand?
Roads, hospitals, schools, loans, police, and fire: they can all hang on the mercy of the private sector.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure what you are referring to here
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
#AbsurdAntiGvmtStances
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't had an anti-government stance...
I mentioned that RayJay was paid for through a sales tax increase
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I know.
I was being facetious.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Okay...
I was just quibbling with the Hillsborough county residents paid for it line in Sveet’s comment.
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Idk
but you are a Tampa resident. Has that additional sales tax decreased your quality of life compared to what you gain by having an NFL and NCAA team play down the road?
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Not at all...
considering that nearly every county in the area has some form of a penny or half penny sales tax, I’m all for its use this way.
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Floridians feel the effect of property insurance more than taxes.
At least, I feel that way.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I just think and I could be wrong
that people wouldn’t even notice the change if Pinellas were to fund most of a new stadium.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
I agree on that...
I don’t think the Rays are interested in Pinellas. I think once they can get Foster to start saying that the Rays are a regional team then they’ve opened the door to move to Tampa. No matter what it’s probably going to be determined in a courtroom.
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
This was more just in general for any stadium debate. You could insert any county in for Pinellas
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Of the money spent from the CIT....
the stadium appears to have accounted for around 11%
Boom. Outta Here.
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by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 19, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's just hurting us in the end anyway
There is a reason our education system is so crappy.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
and there arent jobs. newsflash: bright, young people dont want to live in a place with horrible infastructure unless they have ties to it already.
businesses dont want to move where there isnt an educated workforce. look at the eutopia of seattle as an example. bob graham wrote a great opinion piece on new years day in the TBT about it in how it relates to the casino dealio.
I would be willing to pay for the Rays to stay
Maybe I am one of the few, but it’s worth it to me for the entertainment I derive from it. My quality of life is improved
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Yep.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Jan 19, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Joe's poll is really interesting.
And personally, I think it reveals pretty clearly that the “you had to be there line” and “greatest ever” debates are all about hype, and much less about personal experience. It seems to me like a majority of people just went down the list and chose one person from each sport:
Babe Ruth
Jim Brown/Jerry Rice
Michael Jordan
Wayne Gretzky
Pele
Did 44% of all voters really see Pele in his prime? Did 44% of all voters care? How many of them even know who Cruyff is, or know Zidane other than his headbutt? I doubt very many.
I’d like to see this poll done overall, and then done where people can only choose one sport that they really care about and then vote for 5 in it. I think it would tell us something about hype and fandom.
Was surprising that Tiger Woods wasn't there
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 19, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Gretzky and Jordan are no doubters(I would say Ruth too)
after that it gets muddled.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
I just have such a hard time putting a guy as the best player of any sport ever who only competed against a certain race of peple from a certain country.
Not even getting in to the fact that people at the time did nothing to improve their game except show up to the park.
Well if you go this theory I would think you would need to go all soccer players
and maybe basketball.
Definitely no hockey or football.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
I think there are two takeaways from Foster's comments about the Tampa Bay area...
1. It’s in Foster’s best interest to play the card that to show that Tampa Bay is a viable area for MLB, fans need to attend the games NOW in the Trop.
“If the region wants the Rays to stay in the region, then Tampa Bay needs to support this team this year by putting their backsides in the seat and going to the game,” Foster said.
This serves his interest of keeping the Rays in St. Pete or at the very least Pinellas county.
2. If you want to believe that Stu is trying to move the team to Tampa, what better way is there to do that than to express concern about the viability of the region as a whole. This forces Foster to open up the possibility of Hillsborough county or try and stand on Pinellas county’s track record.
I tend to believe that point two is/was Stu’s endgame.
Boom. Outta Here.
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Nice to see Foster step up a bit on the show up or else front a bit
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'll be on KingDavid show at 2:20 today to discuss this with the guys
by Jason Collette on Jan 19, 2012 12:21 PM EST reply actions
Sweet just before I leave for class
Rams may be moving back to LA-MENTION THIS-RUIN ANOTHER TEAM’S OFF-SEASON
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 19, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Just heard Jean on his show...She was phenomenal(ly bad).
Toby offered to buy her Party bus ticket to the game. Good luck following her.
by Passionate Apathy on Jan 19, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is the Rays playing hardball, leveraging against two mayors at once
(this was mentioned a bit above, but here’s my take)
They said to Foster, essentially:
If we can’t get a viable option here, we’ll walk – we’ll walk tomorrow. People will be mad at us for leaving, but they’ll be mad at you, too. We’ll still have a baseball team; will you still have a job?
What choice does Foster have but to work to make the area viable? Rays in St. Pete is still Foster’s favorite option, but having the Rays in Tampa instead looks a lot less bad than the political disaster of having them leave the area entirely.
For Buckhorn, he sees that making the Rays work in St. Pete in the short term (therefore Tampa/St. Pete in the long term) is an important goal – if the Rays leave the area entirely, it doesn’t matter if he’s got some great plan cooking for 2027.
Is it a bluff? Would the Rays leave for another city at the drop of a hat? Could they (would another city and/or the Rays pay enough to buy out the Trop contract)? At least publicly, Foster seems to believe it, which makes it look like some top notch negotiating by Sternberg.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 19, 2012 6:16 PM EST reply actions























