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The Rays Tank: Mike Fast Moving Behind Closed Doors

There was some bittersweet news around the saber-sphere yesterday: Pitch F/x living legend Mike Fast has been snatched up by the Houston Astros' front office, and as a result, he won't be writing for Baseball Prospectus anymore. A huge congratulations to Mike; his research is phenomenal and he deserves this gig. I'm just slightly disappointed that his future work will no longer be in the public domain, but so it goes -- that's the way things are trending in baseball.

It's funny how much things have changed in a mere 5-10 years. Back when Sternberg and Friedman first joined the Rays, there was a ton of unique sabermetric research happening in the public domain; since that time, though, the saber-sphere has both been strengthened and been weakened. Our understanding of the game has improved ten-fold, but the majority of the best researchers have been snatched up by teams. With Mike now gone, I think I can count on one hand all the people out there that I'd consider real "researchers" that are pushing the field forward with their work.

These days, I fully imagine that the best research and progress in baseball stats happens behind closed doors -- not in the public domain. There's simply not as much work done publicly to push forward our understanding of the game, which...well, it is what it is. I'm somewhat sad that the saber-sphere doesn't shock and educate me as often as it used to, but it's also worth remembering that our current understanding of the game is rather robust. I don't think we're going to see any new radical breakthroughs unless more data is publicly released -- Field F/x, Hit F/x, etc. And I don't necessarily see that happening.

So congrats again, Mike. Thanks for being an innovator and teaching me multiple things I didn't know about the game. The best of luck to you and the Astros.

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the way things are trending in baseball [blogging]

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 25, 2012 8:33 AM EST reply actions  

This fascinates me.

The advent of blogging and social media is really changing the landscape of how baseball (and sports in general) is covered. Blogs like this are really pushing the boundaries of what covering baseball can and will look like in the future.

"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon

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by John Gregg on Jan 25, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

It's almost obscene how differently boxing is covered

The sport never had the statistical explosion that baseball did (and really isn’t particularly conducive to it, other than things like looking at third order wins and such), but what receives coverage is just so different. 20 years ago, other than one fighter calling out another in the ring, you never would have heard about contract negotiations. Now, that’s about half of what we end up reporting.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 25, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

as LindyBear put it yesterday...

He wrote a great piece 2 months ago called “keeping up with the Friedmans”
He now needs to do a “keeping up with the Kalks”

Fast and I go way back – he’s been an engineer by day who has juggled the baseball along with a wife and four kids after hours. It’s a great story of hard work and dedication paying off.

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions  

The hard work is the most under-appreciated thing

Even after creating a slick database, which I imagine took countless hours amid frustrations, the actual work he’s doing takes even more time. People think that you can just throw some stuff together and get noticed, but you truly have to do something that no one else has seen before and do it competently. Then do it over and over again until you’re not only respected amongst a small circle, but have a large enough following that your name becomes relatively mainstream. It’s been fun to watch Mike go through this process, but even more enlightening. Hopefully his work doesn’t go the way of Pizza Cutter’s and end up on a defunct site that shuts down as he’s really laid the groundwork for all aspiring Pitch F/x work that’s become commonplace.

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

More than the hard-work, to me at least, is the thought process that goes in to it.

Figuring out the stringing, coming up with the idea, etc. I think is what sets someone like Fats apart. Granted, I’m lazy.

by rglass44 on Jan 25, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, totally agreed with both you guys.

It takes a lot of work and creativity to do what Mike’s done. Especially these days, as he’s tackled some really difficult subjects recently — the pitch framing and hit-and-run research jump out.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 25, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that comes from the fact he was a semi-conductor engineer by trade

He was definitely able to apply his professional experience into what started as a hobby and now became a career.

Two guys that I’ve know through fantasy baseball for 6+ years now work for my two favorite teams within 2 months of one another. Silly hobby, indeed

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

We never played in a league head to head

He’s been part of the RotoJunkie (now RJBullpen).com community for a long time under the nom de plume of Kevin Seitzer. I’ve advised him on trades and players and he’s done the same for me

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

This is something I've thoughts about in the past.

It would make a heck of a lot of sense. And maybe it’d encourage more research…I dunno.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 25, 2012 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think it does.

I hope the Brooks Baseball reopened forums will grow into that as well.

by Whelk on Jan 25, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

i was thinking something of a more purely academic nature with volumes and peer reviewing

the book blog seems more like…a blog with some research articles. but they still link to other work. that’s not what i’m talking about.

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 25, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Why not PLoS (Public Library of Science)? They are web-based, open access and peer reviewed?

Wouldn’t Sabermetrics fall under mathematics or statistics in some way? It would be their job to find the right editor and peer-reviewers. It would be interesting to give it a test run with an article and see what their response is. Submission is free, publication is not. It runs ~$1300, so there is that little problem.

by playjoyce on Jan 25, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

just as bioinformatics is a subdiscipline of statistics, so would be sabermetrics

i’m just surprised no well-off baseball statistics lover has organized this sort of thing. I think it would be beneficial for the community as a whole to organize and somewhat standardize sabermetrics. Of course, that requires agreement, and the existence of n types of WAR shows that there isn’t yet the amount of agreement you’d expect of something wanting to be considered scientific.

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 25, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

But then again, that would be up to the peer-reviewers

If they think it is good, it should do well. I would be really interested in knowing whether they would even consider it for review. One argument is that places like PLoS are just cash factories anyway, bilking the $1300 from scientists and then turning a profit on the advertisement they get on their site. The publishing cost are minimal since there is not a paper product. In fact, they might view baseball stats as very worthwhile. If baseball were smart, they would start to offer grants on the topic. Instead of hiring all of these “saberers”, they could read proposals from the public and decide which ones they want to fund. Even teams could do it on their own. Publishing the work would strengthen the applications, just like all other sciences.

by playjoyce on Jan 25, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

but the pursuit of knowledge is more esoteric, and you could parallel baseball teams to drug companies.

drug companies may publish, but only on projects that show little process or they are abandoning. they want their science to remain top secret so they can profit off of it. so teams, and therefore MLB, would probably not be in support of this idea. it’d have to come about organically from us the consumers of the product.

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 25, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

SABR does put out one

But it’s not called a journal, and it doesn’t publish in regular intervals. But I received a few of them back when I was a SABR member. There’s a whole committee that reviews. Not peer reviewed in the sense that someone tries to replicate the research, but that’s not how most peer reviews work anyway.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 25, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that's what some of us mean about The Book Blog.

They link to other work, but then all the regular commenters there check out the numbers and usually figure out why if there’s something wonky

by Whelk on Jan 25, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

that's cool, i don't go there so i didn't know about the reviewing. but in general this would be a pre-publication thing. i dunno.

i guess the biggest barrier to this concept is the fact that the discipline is just too fractured at this point, with many different formulas claiming to give the same quantitative information.

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 25, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The proposed Saber 101 Series may help too.

…and if more sites did the same thing it would help too. As you said the understanding of the game has grown tremendously, but the more people who are exposed to sabermetrics the higher the chance is that more talented people will emerge and use their various skills to help further things. There could be two or three research wizards out there now that don’t even know that sabermetrics is their future yet.

"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon

Rays Digest
Rays Digest Twitter

by John Gregg on Jan 25, 2012 8:45 AM EST reply actions  

if the Fielder contract is any indication

I have no problems with Friedman being as patient as he wants, someone will come.calling by opening day, I’d be shocked if it is another Hammel.

by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 9:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Tom Tango, MGL, Matt Klaassen, Syzmborski & Cartwright, Bill Petti, Lewie Pollis, R.J. Anderson, Dave Allen, Justin Bopp, Colin Wyers, Matt Schwartz, Whelk & FIlbert,

Just guys off the top of my head that understand and competently use what is already out there while pushing the envelope to help shed light on what’s next. Some great ones have been scooped, but there’s so much quality work out there for free that it’s like saying the Rays farm system was depleted after Longo and Price made the jump.

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 9:20 AM EST reply actions  

While I like and respect a lot of those guys, I do think there's a difference between some of them and a Fast type.

Writing good, thoughtful analysis is a bit different than the kind of research work he does. Applying the principals of sabermetrics and developing them are two different things IMO.

by rglass44 on Jan 25, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, agreed. I feel like he was in a class by himself re: research.

Well, not entirely by himself….guys like Wyers and Schwartz are also great hardcore researchers. But there’s just not many of them out there these days.

Even Tango and MGL mostly just do analysis and toss out their thoughts on work that others are doing. Love ‘em, but they don’t do the same sort of stuff that Fast was doing.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 25, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Harry Pavlidis does great data work - helped Mike with texasleaguers.com

But the differentiator with Mike was his ability to explain it. He is gifted in that regard.

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Fast writes well too making his research appeal to a broader audience.

Probably has a broader appeal. But the other guys are great too.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jan 25, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Many thanks for a reply, Tango.

I somewhat figured that was the case…that you can’t share your research due to team connections and such. It’s awesome that at least you’re still contributing to the discussion, as I know I view your Blog as a hub for sabermetrics…lots of great discussions happen there, and all the worthwhile research gets pointed out. That’s pretty huge.

I guess I’m just lamenting the fact that it feels like the public saber community has crested. All the best researchers are now working behind closed doors, and while we can still delude ourselves that we know a lot, I think that’s going to change in the next 5-10 years. Not only are there few researchers left to help push the public into new discoveries, but once Hit F/x and Field F/x data starts spreading around MLB, front offices are going to jump waaay ahead in terms of their knowledge of the sport.

Heck, maybe some teams are already far ahead from what we know. But at least right now, the saber revolution was recent enough that we can delude ourselves into thinking we know about as much as they do. Oh well, so it goes.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I would decidedly subtract myself from the list. Pehaps someday.

But add Bojan Koprivica (loved his pitch blocking study), Harry Pavladis, and Lucas Apostoleris.

by Whelk on Jan 25, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed with all of this, I secretly think you're terrible

and I can’t believe I forgot Lucas and Harry

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

What I learn from that list..

Is I need more vowels in my last name and less consonants

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Please no anti-Italian jokes on this

the 210th anniversary of Napoleon elected president of Italian (Cisalpine) Republic

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

on this

the 503rd anniversary of Giovanni Morone, Italian theologist/diplomat/cardinal/“heretic”

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Really? On this, the 1972nd anniversary of

After a night of negotiation, Claudius is accepted as Roman Emperor by the Senate.

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh come one, on this, the 458th anniversary of

Founding of São Paulo city, Brazil.

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Whatever

It is the 433rd anniversary of the Dutch Republic as the Treaty of Ben Utrecht was signed on this date in 1579

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

On this,

The 508th anniversary of the day the English Parliament passed statutes against retainers and liveries, to curb private warfare?

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Never forget

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

237th anniversary of

Americans drag cannon up hill to fight British (Gun Hill Road, Bronx)

mumble mumble

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, good call on those guys.

Did Bojan just spring up out of nowhere? I loved that study, but that was the first time I’d seen his name around.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 25, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

What I liked about it

was that you can disagree with his politics and religion but he seems like a stand up dude.

RIP OTTOTD

by DeadeyeRR on Jan 25, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

As long as you're not a demmycrat

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't you mean dummycrat?

Seriously, I don’t care what he thinks off the field as long as it doesn’t affect his on-field play or the clubhouse. Then again, some of the sources of clubhouse issues I’ve heard about this past season were surprising. I never saw any myself, but I was only in there after games when players can hide in the training room and showers.

by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly to your first sentence

Just go out and hit the ball and don’t overstep your bounds in what is already a loose clubhouse full of, at this point, veteran voices that have been here

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Does this sound like anyone we know?
Pie arrived from the Cubs before the 2009 season as a former top prospect who had squandered numerous chances. He was arrogant and not completely committed to baseball.

Scott embraced Pie, stressed to him that he was running out of time in his career and that he lacked the qualities of a person with good character — the qualities by which Scott measures everyone. So he brought Pie to the batting cages, taught him how to hit breaking pitches better. He brought him into the weight room, stressed the importance of hard work. He stressed running hard on every play, taking his job seriously and being a better person. It worked.

#contractyear #lukescotttutorial #bjformvp2012

by rglass44 on Jan 25, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Justin Ruggiano?

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

As someone who isn't a fan of Scott or his political expression

I have to say that it is very easy to take some of his comments/actions out of the clubhouse context. As we all know from the recent ‘troubles’ in our own community, it is easy to get your panties in a wad when you don’t actually have an actual relationship with someone. Once you develop that relationship, things which might have been offensive at the start, and who might look offensive to an outsider, can easily become part of the banter of friends. There are things that can be said to family and friends that aren’t said to strangers.

Use the force, Lueke

by nomoredevil on Jan 25, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed. one thing taht REALLY struck me was his commitmit to learning Spanish.

The fact that he’s fluent in SPanish does a lot to make his comments ring true.

by rglass44 on Jan 25, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that and Pie speaking so well of him

But this ‘Orioles team source comment’ made me shake my head:
“He’s not John Rocker. He took the time to be bilingual; he spends more time with his Spanish teammates than Americans. This ain’t John Rocker, but he says some John Rocker type s—-. My question is, why?”
This is where the distractions can come in. It’s not always the people you are ribbing who are the problem. It’s the people who overhear it.

Use the force, Lueke

by nomoredevil on Jan 25, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

George Carlin also asid some John Rocker type S---

And nobody called him a racist. It’s called context, and unfortunately it’s hard to pick up on the written page.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 25, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll post this one separately in case it's veering too political and/or inflammatory

So it can be deleted by a mod. I’m not trying to be inflammatory myself, but unfortunately way too many people interpret it that way when you describe someone else’s inflammatory actions.

In my opinion, a lot of people are just too damn sensitive these days. Sometimes that also applies to the people who are causing it – don’t dish it out if you can’t take it. But there are appropriate times to be offensive, and just because something is both offensive and has some kind of racial overtone, it doesn’t mean it’s racist. Sometimes it can just be descriptive.

One example is when certain individuals got a lot of crap for calling Colin Powell an Uncle Tom. While it’s inflammatory (and was intentionally inflammatory) and has a racial component, it also turns a concept that would take about 20 words to describe into a 2 word concept, and you know exactly what the speaker means by it. And since it’s America, everyone has the right to publicly disagree with that opinion.

There are probably a hundred other words in American vernacular that have the same effect, which can be racist or not depending on the context in which they are used. I’m not going to repeat a long list of them here (although Clerks 2 had a particularly funny bit about one of those terms), as it’s just not socially acceptable to do so, but maybe people should start to reevaluate whether there’s actually a valid reason for eliminating these terms completely just because some people misuse them.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 25, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Once a term becomes "offensive" to any sector of the population.

It no longer has useful meaning. Sure, “Uncle Tom” says in two words a concept that would take much more to explain, but it’s also taken on enough\ baggage that it doesn’t do a good job explaining anything, anymore. Once a term has that type of baggage, abandoning it isn’t a matter of political correctness, it’s a matter of clarity.

by Whelk on Jan 25, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a really good point.

Agreed.

"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon

Rays Digest
Rays Digest Twitter

by John Gregg on Jan 25, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

oh well...
DAVIDprice14 5 years 300 mil…

by rglass44 on Jan 25, 2012 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

hrmmm

why did that cutoff?

@DAVIDprice14: 5 years 300 mil… RT @rglass44: sounds about right haha

by rglass44 on Jan 25, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

one last time:
David Price @DAVIDprice14
5 years 300 mil…RT @rglass44: @DAVIDprice14 what would a David Price extension look like (I won’t tell your agent you told us…)?

by rglass44 on Jan 25, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

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