"#Rays closing in on a major-league deal with INF Jeff Keppinger, likely to be finalized by end of the week."
4 months ago
John Gregg
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welp... helliot gets DFA's 4sure now
molina
pena
zobrist
longo
reid
jennings
upton
joyce
scott
s-rod
chiriton
fuld
canzler/guyer
though i guess you could platoon joyce and keppinger.
yep, sayonara helliot
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
tough deal - he's been in this org forever
Maybe he can latch on elsewhere
by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
It was all that bunting that did him in
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 25, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Unless Brignac is traded.
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
for less than pennies on the dollar?
No way.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Part of a Davis/Niemann package, I mean
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
That wouldn't magically increase his value
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why this signing is confusing
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Chrinos/Lobaton
I expect this will be just plain Lobaton
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Keppinger turned down at least $2.5 mil earlier this year in arbitration
so how much are the Rays spending here? any way you slice it, seems like a lack of faith in brignac
he didn't turn it down, he was non tendered
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
it was the giants saying "you aren't worth more than 2.3m"
so hopefully the Rays get him under $2m.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
I dont see this having anything to do with Reid
I don’t expect JK to play much SS. He is more competition with Guyer to platoon with Joyce with JK at 2B. As long as Srod is around there is no need for JK at SS
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 6:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think you've analzyed this correctly
I’d rather have Guyer off the bench and in RF vs. lefties than Keppinger at 2B and Zobrist in RF, of course.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
i would too
I don’t get this at all, I hope this is a very cheap contract or part of some other deal not yet announced.
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 6:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yup. Topkins just tweeted this.
“Keppinger’s appeal to #Rays: a career .324 / .371 / .481 / .852 line vs. LHPs "
Didn’t look up myself, but if true then gonna see some platoon action somewhere I guess.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
This is bad. Guyer is probably a better hitter than Keppinger against lefties
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Certainly is more purging of the 40 man roster than we thought this month
by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
this is probably the best time for EJ to pass through waivers
before teams realize “oh, hey, we don’t have a backup shortstop”
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
IOW, he is good at what S-Rod already provides
I mean, he’s a step up from Helliot, but it reminds me of when we carried Navi & Shop at C. Two guys who don’t complement each other.
Use the force, Lueke
He's an improvement at pinch-hitting off the bench
and more useful vs LHP. Helliot struck out in 1/3rd of his PAs vs LHP w/ a .293 wOBA
Keppinger struck out 4 times in 96 PA vs LHP last season
by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
I was about to comment on this point.
On a team with a like of K machines, Keppinger does not strike out much-6.2% for his career. That sets up a lot of situational pinch hitting possibilities.
I initially figured Guyer to be pretty much a lock to make the team, but many have pointed out the inadvisability of having him sit on the bench a lot. Perhaps he is sent to Durham to keep sharp and ready if/when needed. If they are loath to keep Guyer in the majors, Keppinger fills a need for a particular kind of RH bat.
e.g. Late in a tie game, runner(s) in scoring position, whom do you prefer to PH for Brignac vs. LH pitcher-Keppinger or Rodriguez?
That seems like a foolish reason to sign a player, though
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
a 25th man as a PH/UTIL?
I was annoyed at first but it makes more sense the more I think about it. And of course Guyer doesn’t have much else to prove in Durham but 1) this is $tu, they’ll keep his arb clock from ticking and 2) better for him to get reps every day than be the next Dillionaire.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
We all thought Deezy was ready to make the team coming out of camp last year and he didn't come up until later
Same with Joyce in 2010
Guyer appears to be the man on that track for 2012
#servicetimechamps!
by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Too bad Moore got extended.
Might have cost us the 2012 #servicetimechamps.
there's no sense whatsoever in gaming *Guyer's* service time
since I doubt the Rays will want him at age 33 anyway.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
he'll be traded once he gets expensive.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
if Guyer gets expensive
that’ll mean he’s hit the Nelson Cruz comp I hung on him. Which should make everyone happy, particularly Brandon Guyer.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
He's going to be leaving his prime by the time he gets expensive.
I doubt he’s unaffordable through arb, and by that time, anyway, the Rays will have a new tv deal, no?
FREE GUYER!
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is a case where we can over-think the move.
Essentially, it seems to come down to some judgments the Rays make.
1. Do they want Guyer to be a platoon/bench player or to play regularly and be available should he be needed? Can we be certain there is a right answer to this? Aren’t there legitimate reasons for either option?
2. Is it useful to have a contact hitting RH on the bench who is versatile enough to play almost any position and has a good record against lefties? We are not talking about a starter or about someone replacing a real prospect (in that role, I mean). We are probably looking at Keppinger vs. E. Johnson. If the Rays want such a 25th man, who is preferable?
In the end, we are considering the acquisition of a 25th man, and so the question might really be what sort of player Maddon might best use, what sort of skills he feels this particular team needs most.
by bobr on Jan 25, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
for the twelvety-billionth time
arguing “X is better than Elliot Johnson, therefore the Rays should sign X” is basically an argument for the entire free agent pool.
EJ was never going to make the 2012 roster. This move says that the Rays think Keppinger is better suited for the bench than Guyer (which you seem to get in point 1). That’s why it’s so weird. Not completely indefensible — people have made the arguments in this thread — but it seems to me, still wrong.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
well too bad MR torrez, unless this move precedes a trade (which we cannot know) that's who he's kicking off the 25-man.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
by pudieron89 on Jan 25, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know, that's why I don't like it
but eh, I guess Friedman doesn’t make moves based on what makes me happy.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
i feel like a trade might be brewing
because why would they need to wait until the end of the week to make an official offer/sign him? its a 1 year 1-2 million dollar deal. those types of deals can be done in seconds.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
an interesting point
I’m coming around to the idea that they want a platoon partner for Pena more so than Joyce, and didn’t trust Canzler’s defense.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
i like that idea as well.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're off on this.
Not sure on an infielder knocks an OFer off the roster. It was always going to be Fuld or Guyer for the OF spot.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 25, 2012 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. I knew that.
Oops.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
S-Rod is fine, but this probably sends Guyer back to AAA
which strikes me as a massive mistake
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Massive? Better to have him get 150-200 PA against mostly lefties? I like the idea of giving Joyce a shot to be fulltime to start the year
If he tanks then you still can promote Guyer later after someone else has shaken out to be a non-viable option
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
career wRC+ 124, .368 wOBA
however, 600 career ABs vs lefties in 7 years in the majors. 93 coming last year. weren’t we worried about saying anything about danjo’s putrid 91 ABs?
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
It's also all over the place
2008-2010: 35 BB & 14 K’s in 379 PA
2011: 0 BB & 4 K’s in 96 PA
by Jason Collette on Jan 25, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Only if walks have become overvalued
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
This, to me, is a sign that they're treating this as a "win now" year
If they’re spending what’s probably 2M on a marginal upgrade
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 6:14 PM EST reply actions
you would have to believe
1) that Keppinger really is a lefty-masher, and 2) that Guyer can’t come off the bench or play part-time.
I’m not convinced of either of those, but that’d be the argument.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Or that Guyer is better served by more time in Durham.
This FO never lets win now get in the way of win later.
again, what is Guyer going to learn at Durham?
If I thought a year there would double his walk rate or something, I’d be all for it, but that’s not exactly realistic. He’s already shown he can hit AAA pitching.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he can improve his walk rate.
They kept Joyce down forever, and when he came up, he was ready. Just saying that it fits with their MO of keeping players down until their absolutely ready.
Joyce was 24; Guyer will be 26
I’d hate to waste his peak years in the International League.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
The Reej speaks:
Joyce’s first full season in the majors was 2011. He was 26.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 25, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
but that is attributed to injuries, no?
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
that's just dumb
this plan puts Guyer in AAA during his age-26 season.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
It's about development, not age.
If giving Guyer more time in Triple-A this season means he’s more likely to be a valuable contributing player in 2013 once Upton leaves, I’m okay with it.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 25, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
again, I ask: what skill is Guyer going to develop by destroying the International League again?
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Humility? Patience? Hunger to prove his worth? What is the downside of having so much depth that we can use a player's option productively?
†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He was pushed fairly aggressively until he was traded here...
it would not kill him to spend a little more time in AAA
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 25, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think this is a service time issue.
Seems to me that the point made that he will be under team control during his peak is correct, so why wait. I do think it may be a reluctance to let him get stale on the major league bench. And some of that decision may have to do with the Rays knowledge of Guyer himself.
I suppose if someone is really impressed by Guyer’s potential it is frustrating. But given the current roster, I do think it makes sense as he won’t be a starter barring an injury.
According to multiple defensive ratings systems he is terrible at 2B
and SS. Who knows where they intend on playing him, maybe 1B, OF, DH. It is clearly about the bat against LHP w/ low K%.
by Sticky Bandit on Jan 25, 2012 6:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The only way this move makes sense is if we're shopping BJ
In which case there’s a roster spot for Guyer. Then again, by now I know better than to doubt the Rays
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 6:22 PM EST reply actions
There's no one who'll have the prospects probably to make that swap
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 25, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
unless that's BJ for Wieters
I don’t see how that makes the Rays better in 2012
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
BJ for Ramos would work too
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 25, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Clearly this is a panic move by Friedman to counter Fielder signing
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Jan 25, 2012 6:27 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
The Rays offered Jeff Keppinger some money and a roster spot. Jeff Keppinger accepted.
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ahh. So this Keppinger fella is going to play baseball for the Tampa Bay Rays. Neato.
by Ben Tumbling on Jan 25, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'm tired of all these confusing statistics! Trades are made on the telephone, not a spreadsheet!
†††If you love Dan Johnson and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
I'm trying to find some reason why this makes any sense.
He can’t defend and he isn’t an inspiring hitter either. I’m just not seeing anything.
Pinch hitter for Pena in high leverage situations? Just thinking out loud...
by Ben Tumbling on Jan 25, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
He'll play IF against lefties
Sending Joyce or Pena to the bench. He’s a much better hitter than Pena/Joyce against lefthanders. Basically, he’s a better fit than Helliot.
I'm getting a projected/regressed wOBA against LHPs of .351 (.304 against RHP)
That’ll do. Not sure we should expect better than that from Guyer.
In the absolute, yes.
But Pena, Scott, and Joyce mean we want someone who can hit lefties well off the bench. Keppinger can. Brignac, Zobrist, and S-Rod mean we don’t need someone as a defensive replacement off the bench, so it doesn’t matter that Keppinger can’t.
If I’m honest with myself, I’m more confident in that .350 wOBA against lefties from Keppinger than I am from Guyer, or probably Canzler.
I don't think the intention is for him to be a defensive sub.
He is on the bench for his bat vs. LH, a particular kind of bat.
It seems the bench will be Catcher, Brignac, Fuld, Keppinger. Brignac and Fuld are essentially there for IF and OF defense, with Fuld in particular possibly hitting against RH and possibly Brignac starting vs RH leaving Sean Rodriguez on the bench.
So Keppinger is not critical for late inning defense or even for much starting time but rather to hit lefties.
Just thowing it out there though not likely
Maybe they intend to keep Guyer and get rid of Fuld.
Could go Kep at 1b, Zo at 2b, Guyer at RF vs LHP.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
but they aren't, and they won't.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
more likely they won't keep Briggy
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
lol
unless he’s traded, wrong again.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
He could start the season in Durham, if need be. I'm not very high on Brignac making the opening day roster
†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Fuld is far, far superior defensively, and is better than Keppinger against Righties. Against lefties the Rays already had seemingly more talented alternatives
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
canzler's awfulness in AAA << kep's badness in the show
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
exactly
He is just a proven version of what you would hope from Canzler
by Sticky Bandit on Jan 25, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
we're talking about defense, mr. maniac, if you're going to change the subject please start a new threaded comment.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
How is he an awful fielder?
He was roughly average at 2B for his career apart from last year and I don’t think we can say that with any confidence based upon how small the sample sizes are.
A) Small sample size
B) You can live with -3.5 UZR/150 if you put up a 850 OPS. Dan Uggla is a good example of that, so is Robinson Cano.
I’m not saying play the guy 150 games and he’ll be a star but he’s an upgrade in the role the Rays want him to play.
Are you comparing Uggla and Cano to Keppinger?
FREE GUYER!
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yes - he's comparable defensively (that's not a good thing) and as the weak side of a platoon
“I’m not saying play the guy 150 games and he’ll be a star but he’s an upgrade in the role the Rays want him to play”.
because there really isnt a need for kep with srod and guyer.
He isn’t much if any of an upgrade over either
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 7:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He is an upgrade over Helliot
who he will be replacing.
The guy hit 194/257/338
Why does anyone want him on the roster? We already have one SS who can’t hit.
This. No reason to use Helly as a defensive replacement when we have Brignac.
And Zobrist/S-Rod can more than hold their own at 2B.
for the eleventy billionth time
Elliot wasn’t going to make this roster anyway.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
bench
C (Lobaton/Molina)
IF (Brignac/S-Rod)
lefty PH (Fuld)
righty PH (Guyer/Canzler/Chirinos/now Keppinger)
There was never going to be space for EJ in 2012, and never any need for it.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think the Rays were ever going to carry just one IF reserve
and I don’t think the Rays have any confidence in Canzler’s defense even at 1B. They obviously wanted a backup infielder – thus the Keppinger signing.
on a team with Brignac, S-Rod, and Zobrist
you really think they need a backup, backup shortstop? That’s madness.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
our SSs are not all that impressive.
still hoping for a briggy bounceback and i know you are too.
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
oh yeah
I’m just saying that whatever the situation is, you don’t need a 4th guy on the bench to play short in an emergency. Christ, even if there were some sort of 19-inning marathon with multiple ejections, it’s not like Evan couldn’t be your emergency, backup, backup shortstop for an inning or two.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
it would have if he had used his ellipsis properly
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
No, I think Upton WOULD be a better option at SS than Kep
Thus, the irony-fail of the joke.
Use the force, Lueke
think about the fantasy baseball implications of that statement...
how exciting.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
No, they want a bench player
who can hit lefties, a contact hitter perhaps, and one who is not wasted on the bench.
by bobr on Jan 25, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Guyer will be playing in Durham most likely
And SRod should be playing SS against lefties
if back up 1B is his main role than give me Canzler please
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 7:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you cant platoon every position
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 7:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
or his son
Reid Brignac
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
If there is a situation in the OF, and the Rays need Fuld as an everyday player for a while
like what happened in 2011, he can be a decent bat, albeit below average, with amazing defense.
If something happens and Keppinger is forced to be a longterm sub in the IF, he’s going to be a decent bat but below average in the field.
Ugh.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's fine for what we would need him for.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
you can platoon every position
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
So, is things stay how they are, Zobrist/Scott at 1B whenever Pena isn't?
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
Even if we project Scott at the optimistic .360 wOBA overall.
We would have Keppinger better against lefties – .335 to .351.
I don't get this.
Poor fielder, only hits lefties, doesn’t walk (doesn’t K either, though).
I hope it’s not a guaranteed deal, and I hope he doesn’t make the team.
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We can take 30 starts vs. lefties and PH, right?
I don’t mind it, I just would have liked to see the fourth bench spot belong to Guyer
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Probably more than 30, but still
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Who does he replace in the lineup against lefties?
We already have 1 util IF lefty masher.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Zobrist to RF, Srod at SS, Kepp at 2B?
I like that vs. LHP
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Though he apparently is horrible defensively
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
UZR (whatever that's worth) has him essentially at 0, or average, at 2B over the last 3 years
I’m not sure where people are getting the idea that he is horrible there.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 25, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
HOW ABOUT GUYER!?
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
yup
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
As some have pointed out it's better for Guyer to start in AAA than platoon with Joyce
If the Rays have plans of using Guyer in the OF in 2013 especially with the pending departure of Upton after 2012 it’s best he gets work everyday rather than platooning.
And I've stated numerous times that it might be more beneficial for him to adjust to major league pitching.
I think the idea of Guyer needing everyday playing time is overstated.
FREE GUYER!
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
+2, even
this is so right I can stop posting
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
This is possible, too.
Frankly, I have no idea what Guyer needs, but I think this move makes it clear the Rays think he’s better served in AAA.
I suppose.
This is a crappy signing, though. I’m really disappointed. Keppinger literally offers next to nothing. I don’t want him playing the field ever.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Friedman disagrees
and I’m guessing he knows more about making the right moves than a group of fans posting on a blog.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jan 25, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that's the idea
and it’s a good one. I read the other day the Rays faced left-handed starters in 28% of the games last year so it’s not like using Keppinger is going to make a big impact in 2012. Bottom line is Keppinger overall a better player than Elliot Johnson but that isn’t saying much.
Keppinger is not overall a better player than Johnson.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Keppinger
is nothing more than an empty batting average and poor infield defense…there is a reason the giants kept mike fontenot over him.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
I see nothing wrong with Keppinger's career splits vs his left handed pitching
Elliot Johnson does not belong on the Rays or any MLB club. Having Elliot on the postseason roster was a sad joke.
keppinger is a perfect backup
i agree and he has value hitting lefties…but that is basically it.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
obviously sabean isnt AF, but
not going to arb with keppinger was a good call. keppinger is not worth 2 million dollars.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
I hope this is a minor league contract.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
3.1 WAR over the past 3 years
1 WAR for 2 million? Nick Punto got a 2 year deal!
I do agree with you completely
that the Red Sox signing Nick Punto (and then giving him the everyday SS job!) was unbelievably stupid.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
i thought 1 WAR
was worth 4-5 million on the FA market?
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
thats what i thought
so if keppinger can produce .5 WAR this will be a surplus of value if he signs below 2 million….not as bad as it sounds.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, but this isn't factoring in the opportunity cost of his roster spot/playing time
Which probably could’ve been better utilized by giving PA to Guyer
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
His time may only come when Upton leaves
At that point I guess we will see how much the Rays really see him as part of their future.
i agree
but i am just saying its not as bad as it seems…its not great but its not terrible.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
oh, sure, it's not a horrible move
I just disagree with it. Kind of like Fernando Rodney.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
here here
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
One has track record of hitting quite well vs left handed pitching
The other has no track record at all and doesn’t even belong in MLB.
the question is which is which
hahaha
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hitting LHP should not be the sole requirement for making a team like the Rays.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
good point.
but if you can get keppinger for less than 2 million and he can play serviceable defense and put up .324 /.371 /.481 against lefties its a decent risk to take…plus he rarely strikes out and isnt afraid to take a walk.
he is mediocre but at a decent price say 1.5 million with 100k in incentives he might be able to squeeze out some value.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
When you have Pena and Joyce who struggle vs lefties
it becomes necessary
The Rays obviously don't want to carry 2 reserve OF
This isn’t Guyer vs. Keppinger, it’s Keppinger vs. EJ.
you have absolutely no basis for asserting that
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
LOL I'm sorry I forgot to include citations on my Internet Message Board Postings
It’s the only way this move makes sense. Also, the Rays were expressing interest in Edgar Renteria – a similar player to Keppinger. They clearly wanted to upgrade the backup IF position to someone who can hit left handed pitching.
it's not "the only way the move makes sense"
since about a dozen people have offered alternative explanations (i.e., that the Rays trust Keppinger to PH versus lefties more than they trust Guyer, or that they want Guyer to work on something at AAA).
Renteria would have been an Adam Kennedy move.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like the Rays have a thing against trusting rookies, especially for a bench role.
They aren’t the Giants. And maybe they just want Guyer to play everyday regularly but I doubt they really see him as that important – plus he’s like 25. He’s pretty much a fully formed player at this point.
isn't that an argument for my position?
Guyer is what he’s going to be, so you might as well get that value at the MLB level instead of sending him back down to destroy the starting staff of the likes of the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well I disagree with that line of thought
I was just saying it’s possible. But my explanation still seems more likely to me.
The Rays *do* have something against trusting rookies
When was the last time an unproven (<50 MLB PA) rookie PP broke camp in a starting role with the Rays?
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
we're not talking about Guyer *starting*
so the answer to: when was the last time an unproven rookie position player broke camp in a significant role with the Rays was.. 2011? (Elliot Johnson) 2010? (Sean Rodriguez)?
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going 100% Elliot Johnson on this.
And I think the Rays should be putting together the best team possible, and that team has Guyer on it as of right now. In fact, if they NEED another IF, Canzler is probably a better option than Keppinger.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have David Eckstein.
NEED MOAR GRIT.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 25, 2012 7:40 PM EST reply actions
2 questions
1) Besides arbitration proximity, why is Brainiac favored over Elliot Johnson? At least EJ can steal bases and has had a good hitting season more recently than 2006. Is his defense really worth it?
2) An .852 against the 30% of pitchers and bad defense is not worth 2 mil. I think you guys have gotten too used to terrible offense. a PHer with bad defense should be able to OPS 900 if he’s gonna be handling the shorter end of a platoon.
Ok, so the second one wasn’t a question.
EJ can't hit at all. Like literally not at all. No one here seems to like this deal really
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Also his one good minor league year came with a 382 BABIP
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, he got kind of BABIP'd the other way last season with a .260 babip
His wRC+ in the minors has been good. I’d much rather have a guy like Elliot who can play a solid SS on the team than Keppinger.
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by SandalsNoPants on Jan 25, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
son of joe maddon
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yea ive never understood the hate for ej
He is what he is but some people here make him out to be no better than any of us suiting up.
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 7:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
2 answers
1) Oliver (which I use because of it’s better MLEs) has Elliot Johnson projected at .282 wOBA and Brignac at a .270 wOBA. Oliver uses a three year weighted average, so it doesn’t see the higher ceiling Brignac has based on his earlier minors performance. Brignac is favored because Elliot’s probable superiority is marginal while Brignac’s possible superiority is substantial.
2) Why? We pay for production the absolute, not how well players fit some arbitrary mold. Also, how much that pinch hitter is worth depends on your spot on the win curve. For us, marginal value is worth a lot.
2006 was a LONG time ago.
especially in baseball terms
by XrayYankeeZulu on Jan 25, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Are you arguing that EJ should be valued over Brignac or that Brignac is probably poor offensively?
Because you’re right about the latter, but 2006 is still relevant to the former.
that 2006 is virtually irrelevant.
and if it is relevant, it means that he should be sent back to AAA. In fact, given that he fell 100 OPS points and then 200 the next yr upon moving to AA, he was clearly not adjusted when he was moved to AAA the following yr. i.e., he’s not going to hit well in the bigs.
EJ’s floor is a lot higher than Brignac’s, also. I’d put EJ on the roster and send down Brignac. He has options, yeah?
by XrayYankeeZulu on Jan 25, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
ok, maybe not "a lot" higher, but higher
again, SBs, and defensive flexibility.
plus he’s ugly. all that together = grit
by XrayYankeeZulu on Jan 25, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Elliot had a .252 wOBA last year bruh, his floor is not high
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
two can play this game
Brignac had a .203 wOBA.
Excuse me while I cleanse my eyes by looking at some Frank Thomas stats
by XrayYankeeZulu on Jan 25, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
We should expect a .312 wOBA against righties from S-Rod (I used a .326 wOBA overall to get taht)
With S-Rod on this team, having proved (me wrong that) he can play SS, neither of their floors matter.
if they can get Keppinger
for less than 2 million this is a risk worth taking. somebody needs to strike fear into CC Sabathia and Keppinger is that somebody.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
Good point
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 25, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
If we want to strike fear into CC Sabathia I think a adding a diet coach to the visiting dugout would be better
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
is there any truth to the rumor cap'n cruch cuts the roof of your mouth?
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
laff
go check out Cespedes’ winterball numbers
by XrayYankeeZulu on Jan 25, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
considering it seems we r adding JK for his bat only
Anyone else worried about his park factors, dude has played in some good ballparks for RH.hitters and now.has to go to the trop
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 8:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
This is an extremely good point
Although the giants’ park is also not very hitter friendly
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
that is a misconception actually.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
?
.737 park factor last year, worst in MLB per ESPN
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
that actually has a lot to do with their offense
if you look back further through the park factors it hasnt been as bad…believe me i was shocked too and they are my home team.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
of his 582 career hits
about 75% have been singles. so a single is a single is a single. mostly.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I guess that is a good thing
#wtfriedman
by Dbullsfan on Jan 25, 2012 8:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There is no chance he gets regular time at 2B
Unless there is an injury. I’m fine with this deal as it provides a good bat against lefties and it likely won’t cost them more than $1.5 mil. Is he not what you would hope Canzler to be? At least he is proven at the ML level.
at 1.5 this is an ok deal.
keppinger is a good super-sub.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
S-Rod at SS and Keppinger at 2nd verus lefties means the up the middle defense takes a hit
S-Rod is average at best at SS and Keppinger becomes the worst 2nd baseman on the team. And 2nd base is his best position. Not bad as the 25th guy on the roster but questionable if he is viewed as defensive asset (even in terms of flexibility)and PH’er late. His numbers against lefties have been regressing the last 4 seasons, despite an uptick last season…. but in only 93 AB’s.
Meh!
this seems exactly like a rays move
Squeezing some value out of someone who appears to have very little. They will hide his defense somewhere if his bat can play up.
by Sticky Bandit on Jan 25, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
with Zobrist and S-Rod
I don’t think he would see 2B outside of an emergency.
by Sticky Bandit on Jan 25, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
as I think about it
maybe this means the Rays view Keppinger as Pena’s platoon-mate? That way, they get the (presumed) lefty-hitting abilities plus (presumed) good defense at 1B, which is something you can’t get from Canzler or Guyer.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
thats a good point
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
He doesn't have to be good at 1B
He just need to be not awful. Why can’t he DH instead of Scott? There’s many options.
by Sticky Bandit on Jan 25, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Keppinger as the DH?
I’m hoping I’ve misread you somehow.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
hopefully it doesnt happen
but luke scott is injury prone
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
(injury prone as in injured much of last season)
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
if Jeff Keppinger is the 2012 Rays DH
I take back all of those playoff predictions
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Versus Lefties?
Why not. If he is the worst defender, put him at DH. He is really just a bat only guy, as silly as it sounds, that provides insurance as well.
by Sticky Bandit on Jan 25, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think the goal was to increase the power from the DH slot.
That is not Keppinger…. even on an occasional basis.
he's fine vs. LHP
#Rays: a career .324 / .371 / .481 / .852 line vs. LHPs
Even regessed, that looks great compared to what we have gotten in the past.
by Sticky Bandit on Jan 25, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Those are scewed over his career.
The last three seasons his slash against lefties is .302/.345/.453/.798
and that's so much worse?
Those are still very good numbers vs lefties.
by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 25, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
A .345 OBP? I don't know if I call that "very good"
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 26, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
I'd say it's pretty good, but i dunno about "very good"
Very good is like… 365 and up I would say
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 26, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
16 players in AL had .365 OBP last year
32 total players were at least.345, I’d say thats very good
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
Ah but we're just looking at one split
81 players had an OBP above .345 against lefties last year
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 26, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm
What’re the 13 PP then?
Pena, Scott, Molina, Zobrist, Rodriguez, Brignac, Longoria, Jennings, Upton, Joyce, Chirinos are locks.
Keppinger, Canzler, Guyer, Elliot duking it out for the last two ends up with Keppinger and Canzler? Am I missing someone?
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Or maybe Fuld is being worked into a trade with one of our starters?
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 25, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
rosterbater
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
elijah dukes
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
I hear that he's a mischevious little badger
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
i hear there isnt a pregnant woman in florida that he wouldnt try and assualt
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
here's the 13, no competition now
C: Molina and one of Lobaton/Chrinos
1B: Pena
2B: Zobrist
SS: Brignac, S-Rod
3B: Longoria
OF: Jennings, Upton, Joyce, Fuld
DH: Scott
?: Keppinger
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah it seems like a done deal
Unless someone convinces Maddon to only carry 11 pitchers. Someone should point out that he carried Sonnanstine around all last year just so he could throw 35 awful innings.
so its not always sonny?
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Jan 25, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's a great idea
Particularly if the 6th reliever is a former starter (Niemann/Davis/Torres/Cobb) — the 2012 Rays absolutely could get away with a 6-man bullpen. I don’t think it’s likely, though.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 25, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
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