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Why Do We Care About Batting Average?

I've come up with a new, extremely complex statistic that I think will revolutionize baseball.

Let me go over how to calculate this statistic. Bear with me for a moment folks because it gets a little messy. First, you look at all the times a hitter comes up to bat. Give the hitter one point for every time they get on base by hitting the ball, except if the scorer feels like the fielder *probably* should've made the play (they get a point if the fielder is too lazy or inept to make it to the ball on time though). That's right, this statistic gives equal credit for home runs and singles, even though about 70% of the time a batter hits a single, he won't score, but a home run guarantees one run at minimum. We also don't give hitters any points for walking, because frankly, it's boring to watch, and who wants to tire out opposing pitchers and create run scoring opportunities anyways?

Then we divide the number of points accrued by the number of opportunities a batter has to get points, except we ignore some of these opportunities. Walks didn't count for anything at the beginning, so there's no reason to start counting them now, it's just easier to pretend they didn't happen. We WILL, however, count errors as opportunities, because even though the hitter succeeded in every way by getting on base, advancing runners, and not making outs... well we'll still hold it against them. If the hitter gets out but advances a baserunner, then we also don't count it as an opportunity, but only if the hitter did it on purpose, or if it's a fly out that leads to a run scoring. Ground outs that "accidentally" lead to a run scoring count as opportunities. The scorer will judge how pure the batter's heart was to decide if it was intentional or not.

To recap:

"Points"=Times on Base-BB-HBP-FC-RBOE-Dropped 3rd Strike-CI-SH

"Opportunities"=Plate Appearances-BB-HBP-SH-SF-RBOE-FC-Dropped 3rd Strike-CI-SH

Now to calculate this ground-breaking statistic, we divide the number of "Points" by "Opportunities". I shall call this "the batting average".

Star-divide

What's "batting average" good for? Well, I'm not positive to be honest. It sure as hell isn't a simple statistic like OBP (Times on Base/Times Batting) or homers (number of home runs). It's an absolutely lousy indicator of offensive ability, given that our Tampa Bay Rays scored the 3rd most runs in the league despite the 2nd worst batting average. The 2nd best batting average in the league went to the Kansas City Royals, who scored the 4th fewest runs. Or, for those of you who prefer more than anecdotal evidence, here's batting average weighed against other simple, easy to calculate offensive measures based on how well they've predicted a team's runs scored the last five years.

Untitled_medium

Well gee. It looks like it's better than looking at a hitter's home runs and ignoring everything else, barely. Good to know it beats considering just a small fraction of a hitter's outcomes. It's also a hair ahead of its cousin ISO that ignores a similar number of statistics, but at least ISO can claim to be a somewhat crude measure of power.

I'm not sure what similar claim batting average can make. It's not like it measures advancing of runners, because it treats singles and homers the same. Slugging percent is a much better indicator of that. It can't measure ability to keep the game going or providing run scoring opportunities (avoiding an out) because it completely ignores walks, errors, and a host of less common situations. On-base percentage is what we're looking for there. For every single thing we desire from a baseball statistic (simplicity, evaluating a specific ability, evaluating overall performance) there are measures that are indisputably better in every way.

One of the many complaints around the area about Carlos Pena -- and the Tampa Bay Rays as a whole, for that matter -- is that his batting average is low (looks like my statistic is catching on already!). I'm just not sure why I should care.

Comment 181 comments  |  16 recs  | 

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Comments

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Batting average is important because I have a whole bunch of them memorized

It is unfair to expect those storage compartments in my brain to be suddently free themselves up for something more productive. Ty Cobb has been stashed away since the mid-70s.

by nomoredevil on Jan 27, 2012 10:51 AM EST reply actions  

I enjoyed this.

When you think about it from the opposite direction like PGP has done here, it is easy to recognize how insane BA is.

by BWoodrum on Jan 27, 2012 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

Impressive post

Even though we already know the shortfalls of batting average, your post was interesting and engaging til the very end. Well done.

It makes me wonder about the history of some statistics in baseball. Might be an interesting series of articles, exploring different stats, why they were developed, and how they became mainstream.

by Ian Moore on Jan 27, 2012 11:01 AM EST reply actions  

Very funny post

This is the best stat you have created since the Excite-O-Meter
http://www.draysbay.com/2010/8/24/1632294/how-exciting-are-the-tampa-bay

Where does the excite-o-meter fit among other #’s predicting runs?

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by FreeZorilla on Jan 27, 2012 11:20 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

never let it die

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 27, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm getting a correlation of ~.4

Keep in mind that offense is among the inputs on the “excite-o-meter”

by PGP on Jan 27, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Just the right amount of snark, have a rec, good sir

Also, cough wOBA cough, ahem excuse me.

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 11:50 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah But Still....

Thanks to Ken Funck over at Bpro for bringing this Hall of Famously Weak Arguments to the Table: Appropriate here:

1. "Yeah, but still."

When it’s heard: During the brief interval after you spend ten minutes articulating a cogent, well-supported, and almost certainly correct thesis in opposition to a popular baseball belief, and before passersby are amazed to see you ram your own head completely through a ballpark support column in response to your friend saying "Yeah, but still… Willy Taveras is a much better candidate to lead off than some slow guy with a .400 OBP, no matter what you say."

Why it’s weak: It’s not an argument; it’s merely abdicating the responsibility to cite any shred of evidence to support a position, as if that is somehow the same thing. It also assumes that all opinions should carry equal weight, regardless of the foundation on which they’re built—which is patently untrue.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 11:52 AM EST reply actions  

If they don't walk and only hit singles they wouldn't

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Looking at all the 300 hitters from last year

Melky Cabrera had the lowest OBP with a 340 and only Starlin Castro had an OPS lower than 800

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 27, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Why don't you just say that you want nine good hitters?

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

SK, you'll not hear me applaud the guy with the .300 BA but as i point out

most of them in doing so are also good hitters

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by sternfan1 on Jan 27, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

the problem is that BA fluctuates more than any other offensive skills

So spotting a “.300-hitter” is nearly impossible. They might turn into a pumpkin at any moment.
By contrast, power hitting and walking are skills that stay consistent.
No one doubts that high BA is excellent for offense. The question is how you find guys that will actually do it consistently

by XrayYankeeZulu on Jan 27, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ichiro BA

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 27, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Ichiro SLG

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 27, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

And that ISO would've been better

Point is, there’s a point.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 27, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If you look at qualified batter since 2000 that have multiple qualified seasons within that span then Ichiro

actually had the 57th highest variance out of 368 players. He’s sandwiched between Aramis Ramirez and Marquis Grissom. Some years you get .370 last year you got .270

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The advantage of singles over walks is

with runners on base, the opportunity to advance an extra base, as opposed to one with a walk. As far as the advanced metrics, I’m still learning and won’t pretend to have a clue otherwise, however I think there is a place for all of the statistics, old and new.

But when you look at someone like Pena, if he was hitting in the .270-.290 range, how much higher would his OBP be because of the addition IBB’s he would probably get, also how many additional extra base hits would he have that either drive in runs, or put him in a position to score?

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jan 27, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

If Pena hit .270-.290 it would look a lot like 2007.

Where he hit .282/.411./.627, with 46 HRs, all of which comes out o a massive .430 wOBA. There’s nobody here who doesn’t think that would be great. The problem is he can’t just wake up and say, I’m going to hit .280 this year. He’s a pull hitter and people use a massive (and very successful shift) on him, and he strikes out a lot. So the comparison we need to make isn’t really Carlos Pena with a low batting average to Carlos Pena with a high batting average, but rather, Carlos Pena with a low (realistic) batting average to a player with lesser power and lesser patience but a higher batting average.

Of course a single is better than a walk. Saying that they’re exactly the same is outdated rhetoric. Compared with the value of an out, though, the difference is very marginal. That’s why wOBA is nice. Smart people have figured out the exact difference in in value between them for us, and that’s part of the formula.

by Whelk on Jan 27, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why wOBA weights a walk at .72 and a single at .9 A single is more valuable than a walk, but not by all that much

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 29, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Give me a lineup of 9 guys who OBP .400 and I guarantee they'll be much better

Hell give me a lineup of 9 current MLB players who have the last name Pujols and I guarantee they’ll be better still. We should just judge guys by how close their last name is to Pujols.

by benderbrodriguez on Jan 27, 2012 12:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Does any team? Does it bother you that the population of one on your planet ensure extinction?

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

but here's the problem with that 300/300/300 comment--as it pertains to '11

it didn’t come close to happening 340 lowest OBP and only one below 800 OPS

and i’d suspect that’d hold true most of the time the last 10 years

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by sternfan1 on Jan 27, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Miggy is ridiculous.

@dobbertweets
(Warning: may contain sourness)

by blackraven on Jan 27, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

love watching that guy hit

special guy…hope he keeps it together..

It was just last year (I think?) that he was pulled over driving to spring training drunk as a skunk and caused a lot of worry among Tiger fans.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That stuff is so overblown, it's only a problem if you get caught, I guess.

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

true on the getting caught

here is the obligatory “back when Mantle and the boys were getting drunk every night” argument.

I guess it’s not a problem until you get caught.

But Cabrera, unlike others that have only been caught once (Choo for example), is known to have a problem with alcohol so it receives more attention each time he has an issue.

Hope he can keep it together.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

So there were 22 qualified .300 hitters over that three-year span, and you're putting nine of them on one team?

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Chances are

if a power hitter or someone with extra base power hits .300 his OBP and Slugging will be much higher. Nobody wants a team of Juan Pierre’s.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jan 27, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Because the average fan doesn't look at walks

they look at what the hitter produces when he swings, which was mostly how I looked at numbers when I started reading DRB, though I did look at OBP as well, but most would probably argue that the primary part of OBP is BA. I’d be more concerned with BA with runners on base, whether advancing a runner or scoring him.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jan 27, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

But why *shouldn't* the average fan look at walks? It's no more complicated that way

You’re right that the primary component of OBP is average, but looking at OBP tells you everything batting average, and then some.

If you walk with runners on, not only do you give the next hitter the chance to drive in the runners, but he can also drive you in too now

by benderbrodriguez on Jan 27, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not disagreeing with you

but walks don’t drive in runs unless it’s a bases loaded situaion, or if there is a passed ball/wild pitch, and don’t generally add to the excitement factor of a line drive to left center.

Personally, I’m more concerned with BA from a guy like Pena than someone like Dez or BJ, because the better Pena hits, the more productive he’s going to be, and also walking more, with the likely increase in power numbers….with guys like Dez/BJ, they can make things happen with their speed, steals, bad throws, affecting the hitters count because of pitchouts…which is why I like the Keppinger signing, he’s a contact guy who should get guys over.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jan 27, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Batting Average

is one of the first statistics a young mind picks up while attending games with pop.

It’s easy to tell a 7 year old about batting average – a very easy concept for the young mind to grasp and then he or she can look up at the score board for each hitter and say … this guy sucks he’s only hitting .250…dad smiles and goes on drinking his beer and smoking his cigar (o.k. maybe no more cigars at the park) and the kid now is occupied with the scoreboard with this cool little thing called average.

That’s where it starts, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

We need to indoctrinate these youths in some kind of camp that drills wOBA into their heads. If you only want to use one number, use that, though I prefer including the triple slash

because it’s nice to get an idea of how a player puts up that aggregate number.

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

since I don't have kids

I don’t know what parents are doing to distract their kids during a game?

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think so, especially if you use Tango's method

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

A person needs to be at the "math can do cool things" part of their life

Before they’ll get why wOBA is cool.

Until then, I think a triple slash line with a HR total does just fine for kids. I mean, wOBA doesn’t make a whole lot of intuitive sense until you’ve spent time thinking about it’s components and what they mean as you watch baseball.

by Whelk on Jan 27, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly. "Why do you multiply by those numbers?"

you have two responses: either explain the linear weights or say “because that’s how it works.” the first is impossible with kids, and the second undermines the entire process. i dont have kids, but ill try to never give them that answer if i do.

by rglass44 on Jan 27, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

When I tutored undergrads, I would just explain calculus via option 2.

They may not be able to understand why, but they would be able to understand how to use it (to a lesser extent than the ones that would understand option 1).

by MakeitRayn on Jan 27, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but you knew, that you were calculating the area under a curve.

Or whatnot, and for whatever the equation was, you knew what that signified.

I’m not saying that people need to be able to invent wOBA themselves. But they should have gotten to a point where they say “I wish I knew how to properly value all these different batting events, for the purpose of comparing players offensively.” Once a person’s there, they can say, “Tango (or Newton/Liebnetz) figured out how to do this math, and I can trust them and use it myself.”

by Whelk on Jan 27, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

All they need to realize is that OBP equates singles and homers and SLG doesn't properly value each base

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, agreed.

And then it’s an easy jump from OBP to wOBA when they get a bit older.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 27, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Water board them, simple

If you like free speech, come to OTTOTD.com

by Warde on Jan 27, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That's a rec.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 27, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Condascend much?

You must be very proud of yourself.

by homeboogie on Jan 27, 2012 12:14 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

It's condescend

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

this is some good irony

If you like free speech, come to OTTOTD.com

by Warde on Jan 27, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks, I picked it out myself

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

morans, morens, riuns, biuns, sawx fans

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 27, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

condescend

†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 12:23 PM EST reply actions  

I'll never understand why people think BA is an easy stat while OBP is so difficult.

Moneyball said it best, simply put OBP is the number of times a batter does not create an out when he goes to the plate.

by sattp on Jan 27, 2012 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

OBP

is the second easiest statistic to teach to anyone.

It could of very easily been put up on the scoreboard and dads could of added the "plate appearance’ thing and kid would’ve got the same result.

OBP/HR/RBI on all scoreboards would’ve been much better but someone in their infinite wisdom used Batting Average instead.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

*could have

And yeah I have no problem with someone using home runs as a measure because it’s easy to calculate

by benderbrodriguez on Jan 27, 2012 1:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

batting average/HR/RBI

All good leading indicators to use for further examination.

All make following baseball a fun exercise.

All should remain as prominent as possible on stadium scoreboards for decades to come.

Keep it simple for the fan who just wants to have some fun at the park.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

RBIs are pretty dumb too.

Just because of the sporadic nature of what gets you an RBI and what doesn’t.

by rglass44 on Jan 27, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

for a stat guy

RBIs are dumb.

Why knock the fan who sits in the stands, looks at the scoreboard, and see one guy with 80 RBI and one guy with 50 and says the 80 RBI guy is the better player.

I don’t believe that, you don’t believe that, but why begrudge the fan this simple lie?

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

let me quote again my big problem with RBIs:
Just because of the sporadic nature of what gets you an RBI and what doesn’t.

by rglass44 on Jan 27, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

i dislike all the stats BA/RBI/HR etc

don’t do much for me.

Understand why others like them though.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Times will change though.

Someday other stats will be listed up there. Heck, if you changed the stats up on the scoreboard, the whole next generation would view wOBA the same way as the past viewed batting average.

by mr. maniac on Jan 27, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Good for the Trop

Andrew Friedman wants our fans to be smarter than other teams’ too. Yankees Stadium hasn’t gotten past hits, HR and RBI, and it’s not like they didn’t just rebuild the thing a few years ago.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 27, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, seriously

When the hitter comes up, it’s a huge photo, hits, RBI, homeruns and usually some other random statistical fact, 2/3 of which are useless (e.g., Cano is batting .378 with runners on first and second and two out).

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 27, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

definitely list OBP, SLG & OPS on the board

Also list K/9, BB/9, and WHIP for pitchers. I wish they’d replace WHIP with FIP though

by Jason Collette on Jan 27, 2012 8:00 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

They would, but...

The economics of this sport are so damn driven by nostalgia that any change will only be embraced by some. Hell, the DH has been around for 30 years now and half of baseball fans are still pissed off about it.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 27, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I prefer the DH to the pitcher hitting,

but historically, the production of the position has almost never equated to what it was expected to. Each season maybe 2 or 3 actually are producing at the rate of a CIF/COF.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Jan 27, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Strikeouts

That is what gets me about Pena. I hate seeing 2nd and 3rd with 1 out and then Longo gets pitched around so they can strike out Carlos.

by peteypab on Jan 27, 2012 1:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Do you hate it more or less than first and third with one out and guy hits a DP?

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 27, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

DRaysBay: Home of garbage-level analysis and circle-jerking writers.

by kericr on Jan 27, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Is there a divide?

Between those that discuss stats to describe what happened as opposed to what may happen in the future?

Kudos to the guy that hits .300…chances are he probably had a good year in a number of other categories.

Would I rush to call him great for 2012, champion my team to sign him, or insist that he is a better option than someone else because of last seasons batting average? HELL NO!

A lot of the batting average talk seems to be centered, as the article points out, around Carlos Pena.

Now, Pena is a better option in 2012 at first base than Casey Kotchman except for those fans who point to batting average. These fans hold on to that batting average stat and use it against Pena as often as they do the K argument.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

I thought WAR was the new end-all-be-all

If so and 2011 was not an aberration then, Kotchman was worth 2.8 wins and Pena was worth 2.6. Pena’s last year with the Rays in 2010, he was worth 1.1 wins.

Just sayin’

Just goes to show you, everyone digs the long ball

by playjoyce on Jan 27, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

If he ended strong with a .325/.390/.450 season line, then we would have had some stronger advocation to re-sign him.

by Ben Tumbling on Jan 27, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think it would've mattered much

Teams are just getting smarter

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Jan 27, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah those September numbers can kill ya like

Vladdy who’s 894 OPS got him that sweet deal with…oops or Derek Lee whose 969 Sept got him that sweetheart contract with… oh never mind

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by sternfan1 on Jan 27, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Kotchman's september wasn't awful

If your worst wRC+ in any month is 98, well then you had a good overall season

by benderbrodriguez on Jan 27, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn't change the fact that the only difference between those 3 years

Is the amount of hits he had from the balls put into play. Can even extend that back to 2008 some, never stopped being the same player.

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Jan 27, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

No one believes this

Kotchman’s 09, 10, and 11 numbers are remarkably similar excepting his BABIP. This is fact. Whether this change is due to changes in his ability are beyond what I know, but what I do know is that hitters and pitchers who have abnormally different BABIPs from their career mark almost always regress

by benderbrodriguez on Jan 27, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Once you get past a certain baseline though

It gets narrower and narrower. If DRaysBay played a pickup game with the actual team, I guarantee you that even if our defense is somehow identical, they’d have a much higher BABIP than us. But once the pitching hits major league level, either you can hit it or you can’t. The guys who can’t hit simply because they can’t make solid contact get weeded out before they’re major league regulars. And the guys who are pure guess hitters and only hit the ball well when they correctly guess what pitch is coming (and therefore can direct it) also get eliminated before the majors, because they’ll end up striking out so damn much.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 27, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

This simply isn't true

BABIP is very much a skill for hitters, albeit a volatile one over the course of one season. For guys with 2k+ PA (at which point I think it’s fair to say BABIP has stabilized), Choo, Votto, Kemp, Jeter, and Miggy are all above BABIPs of .350. These five guys really don’t have much in common in terms of the type of baseball player they are (other than good, which is probably a result of their ability to maintain high BABIPs), and they’ve all been significantly above league average consistently.
Similarly, hitters like Carlos Quentin, Joe Crede, and Rod Barajas have all consistently held BABIPs significantly below league average the last several years.

Long story short-For hitters, BABIP is largely skill derived, albeit volatile still. For pitchers, BABIP is not much of a skill.

by benderbrodriguez on Jan 27, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

all 5 of them have 1 thing in common

They hit the shit out of a baseball. Hitters can set their own BABIP norms so the .290-.310 range doesn’t apply to everyone.

by Jason Collette on Jan 27, 2012 8:04 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

repeatable BABIP

Since 1970, one player has had at least 10 seasons of BABIP greater than or equal to .350 and that was Rod Carew who did it 10 times. Just 30 players over the past 42 seasons have done it as many times as twice in a single season.

Mo Vaughn did it more often than Edgar Martinez

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=b#ajax_result_table::none

by Jason Collette on Jan 27, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, I meant for pitching

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 28, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if we is worth half, it is still higher than Pena 2010. I really do not understand it from a numbers perspective..

I think there is some clubhouse intangible that we cannot evaluate from stats. The “Gomes” factor. If the Rays were strictly looking at the numbers, then Kotchman for less money makes more sense.

by playjoyce on Jan 27, 2012 2:30 PM EST reply actions  

Batting average is a historical anomaly

Much like a lot of other statistics in various sports. It made sense once upon a time when there weren’t errors, the rules said you must pitch to contact, the ball was mushy and thus almost every hit was a single, and any way you reached base with the ball in play was called a hit. Of course, all of these things had changed by about 1890, but at that point batting average was already an integral statistic, baseball cards already existed, and people had actually started to use the statistics.

In any sport, how many statistics that were once considered important have fallen out of use over time? I can’t think of any.

Of course, baseball has a disproportionately high number of useless statistics compared to other sports.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jan 27, 2012 2:47 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

I think PPG in basketball is pretty comparable

You really need some context as to how they are getting the points (field goal percentage, free throw shots, 3pt %, turnovers, etc).

by Barnacles on Jan 27, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Kind of off topic

Tommy LaSorda used to drive into his pitchers head not to walk a batter.

He’d ask the staff (in the minors):

If a guy hits a ball in the gap and drops dead coming out of the batters box what happens? You tag him out and the body is removed from the field and the next batter steps up.

If a guy draws a walk and drops dead coming out of the batters box what happens? They remove the body and the opposing manager goes and gets another guy to run for him.

Just like the story.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 27, 2012 10:56 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

So wait

What’s this about “given that our Tampa Bay Rays scored the 3rd most runs in the league despite the 2nd worst batting average”?

By my calculations (looking at the Runs Scored column of ESPN’s final standings for 2011), the Rays didn’t even score 3rd most in their division. In fact they scored the lowest number of runs in the AL East last year, were only 8th most in the AL, and 15th most in the entire league.

by bejaman on Jan 28, 2012 1:15 AM EST reply actions  

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